People do not exist to bow down to their government. Governments exist by the consent of the people, and exist to serve their best interests. The people are the government. And if they (or some portion of the population...even a minority) don't like their government, they can abolish it...or secede and form a new one....including founding new nations.

Although many people may not realize or admit it, we are living under tyranny. Over the past several decades our rights have been incrementally eroded...including rights to freedom of speech, the right to own firearms, property rights, the 4th Amendment right against unreasonable searches, and most recently habeas corpus. We are heavily taxed, and the government does not protect our economic interests. Rather, the economic system seems designed to enslave the middle and lower classes. All of this demonstrates a "design to reduce us under despotism." The founders of this country revolted against the British for much lighter forms of tyranny.

It's time for those Americans who truly love freedom to band together and secede from the United States and form a new country. That is the best alternative. Our current government is under the control of those who wish to enslave us (or at the very least, the government is too entrenched in corruption to be salvaged). We need to start from scratch.

Call us "traitors", "extremists", or whatever you want. That's what they called the founders of this country.

Quote :

"When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security... Declaration of Independence, Adopted by Congress July 4, 1776"

[Edited on November 17, 2006 at 1:14 PM. Reason : ``]

11/17/2006 1:07:57 PM

while this declaration of independence and subsequent revolution is necessary, I'm affraid I'm not going to participate because the Nintendo Wii is coming out soon!

[Edited on November 17, 2006 at 1:33 PM. Reason : .,.]

11/17/2006 1:33:13 PM

What, no mention of Jews, NWO or prisonplanet? Wow, I'm shocked.

11/17/2006 1:36:04 PM

Oh holy shit, its the salis!

Welcome my friend. I am going to be skinning j00s in my basement on Thursday if you're available to pitch in. You know how hard it is to get them to part with their skin. Greedy kikes!

11/17/2006 1:36:39 PM

You know, I don't see America in need of a revolution. This despotism crap you are talking about is interesting. However you are failing to note one very very important thing. If you want something in America you can get it. If you want better pay, you get a better job. If you want a better job, you get a better education. If you want a better education, you straighten up and apply yourself.

There is a HUGE number of people who have came from nothing and gotten everything. Hell, President Van Buren (not saying he was a great president) is a prime example. So don't say that the cards are stacked against this or the cards are stacked against that. In reality, people just aren't willing to put up with the shit that everyone in history has put up with in order to make a better life for themselves.

Oh yea, I vote Democrat. And as for your argument to secession, the perfect example of why we aren't in a situation where the "minority" should have the right to, is the Civil War. They wanted to secede over, yes you're all going to yell at me states' rights. States' rights to own slaves. Nothing more, nothing less. There was added "stimulus" for secession, but it was all about slavery. So these "minorities" you are talking about being usurped, these prejudicial (read closet racist) puritanical Christians, who care nothing more than for the rights of their own kind, do NOT deserve to "secede" in order to make a nation where THEIR way goes.

11/17/2006 2:02:16 PM

Quote :

"Over the past several decades our rights have been incrementally eroded...including rights to freedom of speech, the right to own firearms, property rights, the 4th Amendment right against unreasonable searches, and most recently habeas corpus."

I exercise freedom of speech, own firearms, and own property. I have had police not enter my home because I have asked them for a warrant. Please tell me when your right to habeas corpus was violated.

Quote :

"We are heavily taxed, and the government does not protect our economic interests. Rather, the economic system seems designed to enslave the middle and lower classes."

I'm certainly not enslaved. I have financial security and have no problem paying my taxes.

Quote :

"All of this demonstrates a "design to reduce us under despotism.""

How?

If you calm down - try breathing into a paper bag - and examine the world without your sensationalist glasses on you'll see that its a much different place than you believe it to be.

11/17/2006 2:28:44 PM

Yes, Mr. Joshua. Everything is just peaches. No one's having any trouble at all making ends meet out there. And our rights aren't being eroded at all.

Never underestimate the power of denial.

11/17/2006 2:51:20 PM

Break a bone today and you'll hurt to marrow.

11/17/2006 3:04:03 PM

The world isn't perfect, salisburyboy. However, it certainly isn't the world that you see it as.

Have you ever tried examining something without raving sensationalism?

How am I in denial, little buddy?

11/17/2006 3:12:12 PM

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

--Thomas Jefferson

11/17/2006 3:12:38 PM

Why don't you actually do something for your cause instead of just talking about it on the internet?

11/17/2006 3:14:12 PM

Go ahead and secede, it'll make for interesting news.

11/17/2006 3:18:38 PM

secession was found to be unconstitutional in 1865.

can't do it.

11/17/2006 3:23:23 PM

Quote :

"Have you ever tried examining something without raving sensationalism?"

So the ideals expressed by the Declaration of Indepedence are "raving sensationalism"?

That's the only m.o. you have dude...try to smear legitimate ideas and positions by labelling them as "sensationalist", "raving", "extremist", "whacko", etc.

11/17/2006 3:24:44 PM

i tell you what

salisbury loves the word smear more than sawahash loves the word butter

11/17/2006 3:28:31 PM

Quote :

"So the ideals expressed by the Declaration of Indepedence are "raving sensationalism"?"

I never said that. Obviously your reading comprehension is on par with your critical thinking.

Quote :

"That's the only m.o. you have dude...try to smear legitimate ideas and positions by labelling them as "sensationalist", "raving", "extremist", "whacko", etc."

No, thats not my "m.o." little buddy. I ask legitimate questions that you cannot answer and generally try to avoid anything that you can construe as "smearing" because I know that as soon as you feel smeared or misrepresented you throw a little hissy fit and avoid discussion.

11/17/2006 3:35:06 PM

11/17/2006 3:37:09 PM

Quote :

"I never said that"

Then what is it exactly I have presented here that you say is "raving sensationalism"?

11/17/2006 3:37:48 PM

Quote :

"Although many people may not realize or admit it, we are living under tyranny. Over the past several decades our rights have been incrementally eroded...including rights to freedom of speech, the right to own firearms, property rights, the 4th Amendment right against unreasonable searches, and most recently habeas corpus. We are heavily taxed, and the government does not protect our economic interests. Rather, the economic system seems designed to enslave the middle and lower classes. All of this demonstrates a "design to reduce us under despotism." The founders of this country revolted against the British for much lighter forms of tyranny. It's time for those Americans who truly love freedom to band together and secede from the United States and form a new country. That is the best alternative. Our current government is under the control of those who wish to enslave us (or at the very least, the government is too entrenched in corruption to be salvaged). We need to start from scratch."

11/17/2006 3:39:26 PM

Well, if we aren't under tyranny, what were the founders living under? The founders revolted against much lighter forms of tyranny than we now live under.

11/17/2006 3:44:03 PM

Show me a piano falling down a mineshaft and I'll show you A-flat minor.

11/17/2006 3:45:05 PM

11/17/2006 3:46:28 PM

Quote :

"The founders revolted against much lighter forms of tyranny than we now live under."

No they didn't. Go read about the intolerable acts.

11/17/2006 3:48:01 PM

11/17/2006 3:49:43 PM

salisbury, you forget that the constitution/declartion/etc are "living documents" ie subject to change over time

it's a few years past 1776

11/17/2006 4:02:06 PM

Quote :

"salisbury, you forget that the constitution/declartion/etc are "living documents" ie subject to change over time it's a few years past 1776"

I know that. And how are you suggesting that impacts anything I've said?

11/17/2006 4:06:49 PM

How are the intolerable acts not worse than what is going on now?

11/17/2006 4:07:57 PM

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it."

--Abraham Lincoln

11/17/2006 4:14:27 PM

yea, so clearly we aren't tired of it since it hasn't happened

11/17/2006 4:17:43 PM

Quote :

"How are the intolerable acts not worse than what is going on now?"

Once again, salisburyboy has demonstrated his complete inability to answer questions or to defend his ideas.

11/17/2006 4:19:49 PM

11/17/2006 4:20:06 PM

11/17/2006 4:23:31 PM

11/17/2006 4:25:44 PM

Quote :

"yea, so clearly we aren't tired of it since it hasn't happened"

People have been conditioned via the government-run schools and the media to accept the current conditions. Real freedom is not emphasized, and people are given false ideas of liberty and what good living conditions are.

In order to be a "good little citizen", we are taught that we must never question authority, submit to the government, and accept a meager lot in life. And people are conditioned to believe that living in debt your whole life, having to ask the government for permission to do almost anything, and forking over 1/3 of all you make to the government is "having it made."


[Edited on November 17, 2006 at 4:28 PM. Reason : ``]

11/17/2006 4:26:29 PM

So, I'm interested, what part of the country do you plan on annexing for your secession movement?

11/17/2006 4:30:02 PM

aztlan

11/17/2006 4:32:06 PM

Quote :

"In order to be a "good little citizen", we are taught that we must never question authority, submit to the government, and accept a meager lot in life."

You like to say that because it makes you feel like some sort of champion of free thought, but the reality is that most people do question authority. Most people do not submit to the government when it is to their greatest advantage not to. Very very few people are content accepting a meager lot in life. Just open your eyes and look around if you don't believe me.

Quote :

"And people are conditioned to believe that living in debt your whole life and forking over 1/3 of all you make to the government is "having it made.""

People live in debt because they are stupid and credit card companies prey on stupid people. There is no sinister plot to enslave people.

by the way:

How are the intolerable acts not worse than what is going on now?

11/17/2006 4:32:18 PM

^well, the answer to that, i am sure, is "the government is in league with the credit card companies"

oh yeah, and jews.

[Edited on November 17, 2006 at 4:34 PM. Reason : .]

11/17/2006 4:33:56 PM

How are the intolerable acts not worse than what is going on now?

11/17/2006 4:37:22 PM

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

--Samuel Adams

11/17/2006 4:50:15 PM

^ i enjoy his beer

11/17/2006 4:51:05 PM

So instead of even attempting to have a discussion, salisburyboy now just pastes quotes from historical figures?

Once again, salisburyboy has demonstrated his complete inability to answer questions or to defend his ideas.

-Mr. Joshua

11/17/2006 4:53:41 PM

"The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men."

--Samuel Adams

11/17/2006 4:55:26 PM

seriously, answer the question. how are the intolerable acts not worse than what is going on now?

11/17/2006 4:56:59 PM

Quote :

"The founders revolted against much lighter forms of tyranny than we now live under."

Quote :

"No they didn't. Go read about the intolerable acts."

Quote :

"how are the intolerable acts not worse than what is going on now?"

I didn't say anthing about the comparison between the Intolerable Acts and contemporary conditions. My point was that the founders revolted against lighter forms of tyranny than now exist...which is most certainly true. The Intolerable Acts were passed after the colonists had already started revolting.

My point stands.

11/17/2006 5:04:24 PM

incorrect.

the intolerable acts were BEFORE the punitive actions that were enacted that caused the people of boston to throw the redcoats out.

you want to try again?

[Edited on November 17, 2006 at 5:10 PM. Reason : *]

11/17/2006 5:10:22 PM

Quote :

"30thAnnZ: incorrect. the intolerable acts were BEFORE the punitive actions that were enacted that caused the people of boston to throw the redcoats out. you want to try again?"

Quote :

"The Intolerable Acts, called by the British the Coercive Acts or Punitive Acts, were a series of laws passed by the British Parliament in 1774 in response to the growing unrest in thirteen American colonies, particularly in Boston, Massachusetts after incidents such as the Boston Tea Party."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intolerable_Acts


[Edited on November 17, 2006 at 5:13 PM. Reason : ``]

11/17/2006 5:13:24 PM

you want to use a credible source instead of wikipedia?

11/17/2006 5:13:54 PM

Quote :

"The Intolerable Acts were passed after the colonists had already started revolting."

Quote :

"The Intolerable Acts, called by the British the Coercive Acts or Punitive Acts, were a series of laws passed by the British Parliament in 1774 in response to the growing unrest in thirteen American colonies, particularly in Boston, Massachusetts after incidents such as the Boston Tea Party."

No one was in open revolt at the time of the Intolerable Acts. It was passed in response to minor acts like the Boston Tea Party. The Intolerable Acts preceded the American Revolution and were a direct cause of the Declaration of Independence - the very act that you are talking about. While you didn't mention them directly, you explicitly said that America's founding fathers revolted for smaller problems than people face today. So please stop making excuses for yourself and explain this to me: how are the intolerable acts not worse than what is going on now?

11/17/2006 6:41:28 PM

you know we all laugh at salisburyboy but he IS going to participate in domestic terrorism without a doubt

all the signs are there

11/17/2006 6:43:10 PM