I've got an interesting question. I'm not sure where to find the answers for it so I'm hoping someone has had experience with this.

I'm going to be looking for a house soon within the Raleigh/Cary/Garner area and I'm concerned about HOA. Now I recently saw in the news about a homeowner who owned their house PRIOR to an HOA being in the area and now that there is one they are trying to enforce their rules on them.

What's the legality of that? Grandfather clauses etc?

The reason I ask is that the last thing in the world I want is some asshole telling me how tall my grass can be or what color my house can be. Don't get me wrong I'm not going to leave it uncut until it looks like the brazillian rain forest or paint my house pink, but to me that's none of you damn business.

What's your experience with them? Most of my experience was just renting properties in areas that there weren't HOA's but now it seems they are everywhere.

11/28/2006 1:51:06 PM

The irony of this thread will be when you move into a place without a HOA, and your next-door neighbor leave the outside of his house incredibly shitty. Grass unmowed, car is on bricks, trash outside, you name it. As you see the resell price of your house dropping by the thousands you fall to your knees and scream up to the heavens, "OH LORD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN MEEEE." But alas, it's too late. Without a HOA there is nothing you can do but watch as you lose money.

11/28/2006 1:54:07 PM

sometimes they're gay sometimes they rock


i'm not sure about the grandfather thing... i think you have to sign their papers before they can do anything but once you do that they can jack your house if you don't comply.

11/28/2006 1:54:22 PM

basically a HOA will keep your neighborhood from looking like a slum, and enforce those rules on everyone, its good for the property values

but make sure you know up front what your HOA dues are going towards

11/28/2006 4:13:05 PM

the only ppl who get letters from the HOA are the ppl around the one lamer's house (for example, us). we get a letter about every little thing, while other neighbors dont hear shit. it is gay and the guy needs to stop living with his mother and stop powertripping about some unnoticible roof mold that every fucking house has on a couple shingles because of the hurricane.

11/28/2006 4:16:09 PM

some are ok. it just depends on what all they cover. Some will only cover the maintenance/upkeeping of the entrance and common grounds in the area. Others will control every aspect possible down to what style of mailbox you have, how long you can have your boat in your driveway (dad was fined for that one), etc. Just make sure you read over the HOA stuff very well

11/28/2006 4:21:00 PM

it also pays for other things besides regulating what you can and can't do with your property/enforcing rules that keep the neighborhood as a whole looking nice such as neighborhood signs, street repair, common ground landscaping

HOA isn't a bad thing...and there are "grandfather clauses" or something similar. such as the last place i lived had clauses regarding decks, outdoor sheds, or fences...at some point in time the whole neighborhood had the option of getting a deck or a shed--in many cases since then a deck or shed or fence may have been added on. in that case, the sheds and decks the HOA paid for are included in wear and tear if they need to be fixed, whereas the others aren't.
same with colors of the houses--one side of our unit had a certain design and they could all be colors of a large spectrum. whereas units on another side were a different design and they would all be one color.

thing to do is read up on your HOA (it will be filed at the register of deeds office) of the neighborhood before you move in if it's of that much of concern, and then after that GO TO YOUR MEETINGS. and if you're worried about an HOA after you move in--they don't just start up an HOA out of thin air (majority of the neighborhood would have to come together and start one) and they don't change the HOA regulations without a 2/3 majority vote on the new regulation.

(and my meeting is tomorrow--i'm excited! first one for my new neighborhood. gonna meet some people and find out who the bitchy neighbors are, heh heh heh...hopefully there's not a evil accountant lady like my last neighborhood--you know who i mean [user]Str8barcardiL[/user])

[Edited on November 28, 2006 at 4:29 PM. Reason : ]

11/28/2006 4:25:41 PM

See I'm very reasonable and a neat person. I like a nice yard. A friend of mine moved into Cary and was in the middle of building a beautiful deck. Nothing tacky, not even covered, but according to his HOA it couldn't be seen from the front yard. Well he lives on a corner... so that's kind of impossible. So not only did he have to build a privacy fence it had to be a specific kind of privacy fence.

I'm trying to avoid situations like that. I'm very respectful of others in the neighborhood as far as keeping the yard clean and trash but I don't want an HOA nazi telling me to move my trashcan. That's my concern.

11/29/2006 7:50:57 AM

My understanding is that most of the homeowners associations that are active are implements of the builder who is trying to protect his investment on the houses remaining to be built/sold.

The big problem I have is that homeowners associations shouldn't have punitive powers. It's one thing for a neighborhood to set standards, but these HOA's lack the oversight necessary to be able to exercise punitive measures. It seems like the craziest people end up in charge of the HOA's.

What's weird is I had never heard of anything like this until I moved to Raleigh. Must be something you yankees brought down.

11/29/2006 8:20:25 AM

we never had a HOA in VA, NJ, or PA. have one in FL.

we had to powerwash our sidewalks because they were aparently too dirty for the guy accross the street. dont ask me why.

the craziest ppl are the only ones who care enough and/or have enough free time to run for the HOA board.

11/29/2006 8:34:53 AM

It looks like when looking for a house I'll also have watch carefully for the HOA's. At least I now know what to look for.

11/29/2006 8:47:35 AM

it is real hit or miss. my sisters neighborhood (also in FL) has one that NEVER enforces anything. half the houses have grass up to the roof.

11/29/2006 8:52:41 AM

Quote :

"the craziest ppl are the only ones who care enough and/or have enough free time to run for the HOA board."

Not entirely true. HOA president could be nice to put on a resume. And some people just like to be organizers.

11/29/2006 8:58:21 AM

And some people just like to be MAD WITH POWER.

11/29/2006 9:09:27 AM

shit, as long as the hoa rules are reasonable, ill take that over a non hoa neighborhood any day. if anything, it keeps the riff raff out. if you're one of those, "screw that, ill do what i want" kind of people, chances are, i probably don't want to live near you.



[Edited on November 29, 2006 at 9:13 AM. Reason : JESUS HELP ME TYPE TODAY AMEN]

11/29/2006 9:12:40 AM

yeah my last HOA had a great president, VP, and secretary.
the treasurer and her side kick were looney, but most of everyone else on the board was cool.

11/29/2006 9:14:48 AM

i think that the HOA is important IN SMALL LOT HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS (as opposed to farm/ranch style lots). if nothing else, if there wasnt some sort of neighborhood covenant, i dont know that i would waste my money. ive seen examples of places with 4-6 acre lots, and they still have rules... but they all apply to what is visible from the road.

i think riff-raff is a pretty strong word, i dont want to judge people based on the exterior of their property (aka the cover LOLZ!!!1)

i think its important to have some sort of standards in place. but at the same time i really hate hearing people say that they cant decorate for xmas due to rules like that. just like everything else, theres good shit and theres bad shit. and btw, if you want to paint your house orange, then take your money and go buy some acreage and live how you want.

with all that said, homeowners associations a lot like student government

[Edited on November 29, 2006 at 9:34 AM. Reason : clarity]

11/29/2006 9:31:57 AM

HOA's are because people lost the balls to go talk to thier neighbor and say "Hey, your yard looks like shit, mind cleaning that up?" and because the neighbor doesn't have enough respect for his/her property to keep it in good shape.

11/29/2006 9:34:55 AM

Quote :

"i think riff-raff is a pretty strong word, i dont want to judge people based on the exterior of their property (aka the cover LOLZ!!!1)"

im not judging their character....in fact, i would probably prefer to hang out with people like that, but when it comes to my money and my investment, im all about some form of protection.

..and like i said, i think it depends on the hoa rules. i have no problem with christmas lights, but i do have a problem with someone who keeps their house looking like shit and has tacky flamingos in their yard all year long. its nothing personal against the person, i just want to protect my investment.

11/29/2006 9:36:08 AM

youre not thinking about common areas at all are you^^

one problem is that you have all these people paying 85 bucks a month and when they see that the grass is too high on the playground, then they get mad. but at the same time polly down the street is like why the fuck is sign not lit, and jim over there thinks that if he's paying, then bob shouldnt be able to string up 16000 christmas lights this month. but bob thinks since he paid 85 bucks, he should be able to.

its just hard to get everyone to be reasonable sometimes

[Edited on November 29, 2006 at 9:41 AM. Reason : .]

11/29/2006 9:36:37 AM

I am the secretary of my HOA.
It is the University Woods property, which is managed by Preiss Co.

We are in charge of amost all aspects of living there, or have regulations on it. It is completely reasonable. We have fines for leaving trash on the breezeways, crap outside, destruction of property, and other such things. We have dues to cover water, electricity, grounds maintenance, lighting, repairs. The need for dues to raise for us is the 9% increase in power, 4% increase in watter, increases in maintenance costs.

A huge proplem is the stupid fuckers that vandalize the property, kicking out railings, pulling off and breaking siding, tearing the walls off the dumpster enclosures, breaking the fire extinguisher cases, discharging the fire extinguishers. That is what raises the cost for everybody.

The one where my parents live in Charlotte is unreasonable. Can't see childrens playsets from the front or from the back. what???. No extra cars in the driveway for extended periods. what??? Must all have identical mailboxes, at $600 a piece.

11/29/2006 10:20:32 AM

People say HOAs protect their investment, yet I speak to so many people (myself included) who say they would never live in a HOA ruled neighborhood. I don't really see it as being such a big asset when you automatically exclude a high percentage of potential buyers.

I bought a house in Avent West (OMG OFF KAPLAN.) Having been in this neighborhood off and on for the last 6 years I have seen it clean up a lot and become much nicer largely as a result of the Avent West Neighborhood Association which is completely voluntary and has no legal power over homeowners.

I can see the benefit of them in situations like ^, but I don't think they are really important if you're just selective about where you buy.

[Edited on November 29, 2006 at 11:20 AM. Reason : s]

11/29/2006 11:17:41 AM

Quote :

"People say HOAs protect their investment, yet I speak to so many people (myself included) who say they would never live in a HOA ruled neighborhood. I don't really see it as being such a big asset when you automatically exclude a high percentage of potential buyers. "

so your personal accounts have lead you to believe that a "high percentage" of homebuyers would never live in a HOA neighborhood?

11/29/2006 11:20:34 AM

some places you simply CANT find one that is without a HOA and still be selective. best bet is to just go over the rules and find somewhere reasonable.

11/29/2006 11:38:51 AM

hahahh i didnt realize it before yesterday but my aunt is the head of the architecture committee on mine. and she supposedly leaves fucked up notes on peoples stuff

11/30/2006 1:08:41 PM

LIVE INSIDE THE BELTLINE, B

11/30/2006 1:58:44 PM

If you purchase the home, as a re-sale your home will now be required to abide by the HOA Covenants. Get a copy of the covenants from the HOA and read it thoroughly - see if there's anything you don't agree with or was wanting to do and see that you won't be able to.

Some things are absolute - some require approval and documentation and signature of approval from your neighbors. Being in a neighborhood with an HOA increases your property value and if run correctly is a great asset to have.

I run the covenants committee and serve on the Advisory Board for my HOA, so let me know if you have any questions.

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 2:20 PM. Reason : ]

11/30/2006 2:19:23 PM

When we first bought our house, the HEO office working with the developer ran the HOA. At that time, things got done reasonably. After a year, the HOA was turned over to residents. The HOA board vote was scheduled (to be held in the park-like common area in the middle of the neighborhood), but a monsoon came that night, so I stayed home. Apparently the vote was still cast anyway, and the people who were voting were all voted to the board.

The common areas have been mowed twice in the past 5 months or so. There are about 15 houses in the neighborhood that induce epileptic seizures from all the lights. The new HOA also sent out letters stating that homeowners are now obligated to mow the grass on the strip between sidewalk and road in front of their houses, even though those strips aren't owned by the homeowners.

The moral: HOA covenants are a good starting point, but you can't tell how zealous enforcement is from a piece of paper. Talk with residents nearby and find out how the HOA is.

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 8:36 PM. Reason : .]

11/30/2006 8:35:06 PM

i wouldn't consider buying a house in a place where i had to be subject to a HOA.

well, maybe if i bought it with no intention to live there for more than a year or something (and then keep it as rental property)...but as a long term residence? no way.

11/30/2006 8:53:15 PM

I find it an interesting concept to think that other people would be able to tell me what to do on my own property. I believe that having everyone come together and perhaps agree on what kind of condition the neighborhood should be kept in (basically: mow your grass and don't make this place look like the ghetto) is one thing, but having punitive powers, having to pay dues and fees, being able to tell me what color my house has to be...that's just bullshit. I'll just tell them to fuck off. Who are they, the fucking house police?

12/1/2006 4:19:59 PM

Do you want someone living next to you with a bright orange and green houes with 10 foot grass and lots of broken down cars in their yard?

12/1/2006 4:35:28 PM

No--that's why you live in a nice neighborhood and don't live in the ghetto.

12/1/2006 4:40:47 PM

Well thanks to jumbo interest only arms it seems like anyone can live in a "nice neighborhood"

12/1/2006 4:45:29 PM

I think a HOA should regulate stuff like how tall you can let your grass grow, overall condition of your house (nothing strict, just making sure it doesn't looked condemed), and any common areas and thats about it. If there are any fees, I don't think it should be more than about $40-$50 a month. These places that have $100-$200 fees are insane.
And if I want to paint my house Orange (which I never would, and I won't hold that against anyone who wants to) then I'm going to paint my house orange.

12/1/2006 4:55:55 PM

I don't give a damn about living next to an orange house, but there are people that do and when I can't sell my house because of it, I won't be too happy.

Usually the fees are sometimes 100+ because you have other amenities such as a pool, or you live in a townhouse where you aren't responsible for external stuff.

12/1/2006 6:00:43 PM

^^ problem there is you have to draw the line somewhere completely arbitrary. wheres that fine line between condemned and livable. what is a reasonable grass length?

12/1/2006 6:22:27 PM

^ any length is the answer. He was saying I believe the house itself shouldnt look condemned.

This would imply overall good repair, but not dictate color.
It might dictate no furniture in the yard, but not stupid shit like you cant see a deck or a children's playground.


I have no idea how i'll ever buy a house without an HOA but I dont want one.

12/1/2006 7:36:04 PM

easy

don't live in a subdivision

12/2/2006 4:41:05 PM

^Cool. I was hoping it was my lack of experience with buying a house that had me going "wtf" to that^^.

Partly because he wasn't impressed with many houses (and so didn't look at them more closely), and partly because he found a house he liked relatively quickly, zorthage never had to consider HOAs.

That might have had something to do with his desire to buy an older house, though. I imagine had he wanted some cookie cutter, brand new box in a cut-up golf course, HOAs might have been an issue.

12/2/2006 4:47:07 PM

NC does seem to have a lot more HOA nazis. In Atlanta, we kinda had a loose coalition, but they mainly ran the neighborhood clubhouse. I lived in a really nice area though, and if you could afford a house there you most likely wanted it to look nice, sure as hell didn't want it to depreciate.

The reminds me. In my parent's neighborhood in Wilmington you're not allowed to park a truck outside. They consider it an eyesore and it has to be in a garage. Hahaha.

[Edited on December 2, 2006 at 5:50 PM. Reason : merf]

12/2/2006 5:45:43 PM

^ Wow...douchebags.

12/2/2006 6:09:09 PM

HOAs are terrible.

12/2/2006 6:14:16 PM

You think they are all bad?

12/2/2006 6:16:59 PM

http://widelawns.blogspot.com/

12/2/2006 7:13:36 PM

if you can hit your neighbors house with a football, you need a HOA.

12/2/2006 8:32:47 PM

i got a copy of the minutes from the last meeting and found out what they spend the money on

putting in a new pipe somewhere, and removing a tree. and they invested like 80k. and called out the people who didnt pay. haha

2/13/2007 8:43:00 AM

your HOA invested the surplus budget? or they are going to?

2/13/2007 9:35:27 AM

Mine isn't very aggressive at all.

I put up a fence in my backyard, and the only fence that is approved by the HOA is a 4' scalloped style fence with 1x4 slats and space between them. Every such fence in the neighborhood looks like a trailer park fence.

what the fuck is the point of a 4' fence?

I put up a 5' fence, scalloped style with 1x6 slats, which at first glance looks like the same thing, but looks way better. I even submitted all of this to the HOA and was denied.

So i gave them the finger and did it anyway.

it's been 3 months, and haven't heard a peep out of the HOA.

BobbyDigital - 1
HOA - 0

2/13/2007 9:40:46 AM

im gonna laugh if they force you to take it down at a later date, but yeah, they're lame.

2/13/2007 9:52:35 AM

Quote :

"what the fuck is the point of a 4' fence?"

Seriously. When I got my HOA book that was the first thing I checked. They allow three types. Two of them are 4' and one type is 6'.

2/13/2007 9:52:45 AM