Is it worth the costs of changing the size and/or shape of U.S. bills to accommodate the blind?

http://www.ourmoneytoo.org/faq.php

11/29/2006 6:43:56 PM

I SEE WHAT THEY'RE DOING THERE

11/29/2006 6:47:13 PM

This is why we invented credit cards and debit cards.

Regretfully it still leaves the blind as potential victims of fraud as they cannot immediately verify how much was billed.

11/29/2006 7:37:26 PM

They could always go to the bank and withdraw money asking for it all in ones.

11/29/2006 8:09:27 PM

they make bill readers for a reason

there arent enough fucking blind people for this to be an issue

11/29/2006 8:18:07 PM

they should just shoot blind people

NO SERIOUSLY FOLKS i just wanted to say that this decision is fucking ridiculous. i mean i agree that they should do something, but since when does 504 apply to paper money. its insane how much he took that shit out of context




[Edited on November 29, 2006 at 8:21 PM. Reason : ^they claim 1%]

11/29/2006 8:20:06 PM

Lets make them different scents so the blind people can sniff it out.

11/29/2006 8:25:42 PM

Quote :

"they make bill readers for a reason"

Then you're agreeing to let your tax dollars pay for those for everyone who is blind or near-blind instead of changing our money?

Quote :

"there arent enough fucking blind people for this to be an issue"

Only 1.3 million blind people and 10 million severely visually imparied. Still a hell of a lot of bill readers. The bill readers would probably be cheaper than overhauling our bills, vending machines, and cash registers but I bet a lot of people would make a stink about that too.

Anyways, changing bill sizes and textures is something many countries have done partially as an anti-conterfeit method. You can't wash a 1 and reprint it as a 20 if a 20's bigger.

[Edited on November 29, 2006 at 9:43 PM. Reason : ]

11/29/2006 9:40:59 PM

Quote :

"Lets make them different scents so the blind people can sniff it out."

quarters and dollars could be cherry.

11/29/2006 10:03:12 PM

Quote :

"Only 1.3 million blind people and 10 million severely visually imparied. Still a hell of a lot of bill readers. The bill readers would probably be cheaper than overhauling our bills, vending machines, and cash registers but I bet a lot of people would make a stink about that too."

i was going to post that as well but then i read the anecdotal stories of the blind and i was

honestly, it wouldnt change my life if the bills were different sizes

it will still take 10-20 years for a complete switch from one size to many

11/29/2006 10:15:02 PM

pretty much every other country has different sized currency. I see no problem with this. Honestly, how many of you have used the wrong denomination bill at one time or the other and only realize it well after the fact?

11/29/2006 10:22:13 PM

someone should invent a handheld device like in a soda machine that you can slide a bill through and it can tell you the denomination...

you could call it a blind tax to have to buy the thing

but fuck, they buy canes and shit...it would help them out

11/29/2006 10:44:46 PM

Honestly, do people still use money??

I haven't had a fucking piece of paper currency on me in weeks. Who uses that shit when you can go to any gas station, fast food/restaurant, and shopping center and use a debit card. I would just assume they cancel all paper currency and move to a totally electronic debit system. But I know the poor and stupid who don't have a bank account would be inconvenienced by this.

11/29/2006 11:49:47 PM

Blind people should just pay in change.

11/30/2006 12:16:55 AM

Blind people should just change!

11/30/2006 12:53:34 AM

Not being able to see his money doesn't make Stevie Wonder any less rich.

11/30/2006 1:00:22 AM

Quote :

"Is it worth the costs of changing the size and/or shape of U.S. bills to accommodate the blind?"

Yep. It's kind of sad that it's even a question.

My tax dollars pay for a lot of stupid shit. For God's sakes, they ought to occasionally pay for something worthwhile that actually improves the moral progress of society.

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 3:31 AM. Reason : foo]

11/30/2006 3:30:04 AM

Well, what are you going to do for the poor people without any arms too? They won't be able to see or feel the difference!

Do they also need different size debit cards too? How else will they know if they've been overcharged?

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 7:29 AM. Reason : .]

11/30/2006 7:29:13 AM

How many ridiculous thought experiments can you fucking run through? Are you saying that because somebody might be both blind AND armless, that nothing should be done to assist the blind WITH arms?

11/30/2006 7:33:38 AM

Well McD, I was referencing Smoker's "Yep. It's kind of sad that it's even a question."

The point is, Cost-Benefit Analysis DOES have a place in society and someone ASKED if it would outweigh the costs. Thus, I need to go on this crazy tangent to show him that under the logic of "fuck it, it helps people, forget the cost" we get stuck in bizzaro world pretty quickly.

I mean, seriously, don't we already have bill readers that will tell them the money they have? Wouldn't it be simpler and cheaper to give them to the blind rather than have to redesign our money?

11/30/2006 7:42:41 AM

I didn't read into Smoker's comment that much.. you're drawing way too much information out of his statement if you believed it implied that he would think "fuck it, it helps people, forget the cost" about every situation that helps people.

As was stated in the article, they wouldn't have to change the size of the bills themselves.. indenting the bills with small ridges around the corners would serve the same purpose.

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 9:10 AM. Reason : .]

11/30/2006 9:09:39 AM

Lavim, I'm sure I am reading more into his statement than he would like, but you have to justify every action based on CBA. Someone will do the research, but I think giving them devices to read bills would probably be cheaper. If it isn't, then I'll entertain the idea, but you can't ignore CBA.

11/30/2006 9:22:58 AM

Quote :

"Question: Why do farts smell? Answer: To benefit the blind."

11/30/2006 10:15:48 AM

^^ I doubt that if you put a reasonable cost on the carrying of a bill reader around with you and the hastles that go with it (think, how often do you have to run your money through the bill acceptor on a vending machine multiple times just for one bill sort of stuff) and add in the obvious cost of production and distribution and awareness that you'd end up with a higher cost than making a couple changes at the various mint production plants (ridges, for instance, probably wouldn't cost a huge amount of money to start implementing - you wouldn't retrofit old bills, but you can start with new production and in 3-4 years most bills will have them).

11/30/2006 10:26:56 AM

So, we have to put a cost on the hassle of carrying one around? Do we get to put the cost of the annoyance of different sized bills on the general population?

Granted, there's would be higher per capita, but there are many more people not blind and annoyed than blind and hassled.

11/30/2006 10:41:23 AM

Just a side, why would we make them different sizes? That would require us to change all of the machinery, we could just pound braille on them and just buy one machine and work it into the existing manufacturing process.

11/30/2006 10:45:11 AM

^the former printing and engraving guy said that wouldn't work well because they would wear off before their life cycles ended.

$ 1 .............. 22 months
$ 5 ................ 24 months
$ 10................ 18 months
$ 20 ............... 25 months
$ 50 ............... 55 months
$100 .............. 60 months

thx NPR

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 12:20 PM. Reason : .]

11/30/2006 12:19:57 PM

Can't we just get them some debit cards?

11/30/2006 12:37:00 PM

Quote :

"The point is, Cost-Benefit Analysis DOES have a place in society and someone ASKED if it would outweigh the costs. Thus, I need to go on this crazy tangent to show him that under the logic of "fuck it, it helps people, forget the cost" we get stuck in bizzaro world pretty quickly."

You can blow up any situation into bizzaro world. Funny enough, it doesn't have any realistic relation to the original proposition.

11/30/2006 1:12:55 PM

^^How do debit cards solve the problem?


I'm not excited about this differently sized bill thing. I want to cry just thinking about how my bills won't line up evenly anymore.

11/30/2006 1:30:15 PM

Yes it does: Should all disabilities be accommodated in every situation or should we take into account the costs and benefits?

That was where I was going and that's about where you got lost.

11/30/2006 1:31:01 PM

With debit cards, they won't be forced to figure out what bills they have. You see, you don't have to count a debit card.

11/30/2006 1:31:49 PM

Quote :

"the former printing and engraving guy said that wouldn't work well because they would wear off before their life cycles ended"

Blind people will just have to ask the teller for new dollar bills. Or we could always just make the bills different colors!

11/30/2006 2:00:31 PM

^^Yeah, but they could still be overcharged on the debit card...right?

11/30/2006 2:52:59 PM

Well, why don't we do some research and see how often blind people use cash vs. debit/credit. I'm wondering if blind people are so worried about it they feel safer carrying around all cash for their transactions than risking being overcharged.

11/30/2006 2:56:25 PM

I see your point.

But differently sized bills = Problem solved

But you want the problem to be kind of/sort of solved. Is that correct?

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 3:00 PM. Reason : sss]

11/30/2006 3:00:28 PM

Quote :

"I SEE WHAT THEY'RE DOING THERE"

They don't.

11/30/2006 3:43:50 PM

Quote :

"But differently sized bills = Problem solved"

That problem is solved, but we get a whole nother set. Counting machines used at banks suddenly won't work. Bill reading machines have to be scrapped. Sure, eventually these things will work themselves out, but its not going to be cheap or easy.

And unless you can come up with a counting machine that can count different ridges (or sizes) of bills, you're going to need at least 4 machines for every 1 we had before. Not saying it is impossible, but it will be a bitch while we wait.

11/30/2006 3:49:43 PM

never mind I'm dumb

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 4:24 PM. Reason : I screwed it up]

11/30/2006 4:21:29 PM

Not that it really has anything to do with this, but...why is it that the smallest bills need be for larger denomination?

11/30/2006 4:23:22 PM

Quote :

"Yes it does: Should all disabilities be accommodated in every situation or should we take into account the costs and benefits? That was where I was going and that's about where you got lost."

Should all disabilities be accomodated in every situation is a good question to pose. Trying to prove your point by coming up with a wildly ridiculous fringe case is not the way to do this, and it's where you got lost.

11/30/2006 5:13:53 PM

I think I'm entitled to use of examples, no matter how extreme. Did you really think I was making some other point than the one we agreed I was making later in the thread?

If so, then I do apologize for not being clear enough for you to follow.

11/30/2006 5:18:54 PM

If your point is that we shouldn't accomodate blind people, do you really think it makes sense to appeal to an example where we try to accomodate people who exist with only a torso and no sensory functions?

11/30/2006 5:26:05 PM

if we kept ones the same, many of the vending machine problems would be minimized. AND if this were done in conjunction with the dollar coin (which i don't like, but that's a different issue) then we could just make the switch to the dollar coin and then keep the five the same (making vending machine issues even less of a problem).

then the big deal would be cash registers, money counters, etc.

also:

the NPR story on this mentioned that jagging edges would make bills more likely to rip. what about rounding particular edges of the bills (eg: no corners rounded = 1, 1 corner rounded = 5, 2 opposite corners rounded = 10, 2 consecutive corners rounded = 20, 3 corners rounded = 50, 4 corners rounded = 100)

[Edited on November 30, 2006 at 7:13 PM. Reason : .]

11/30/2006 7:09:48 PM

Quote :

"if we kept ones the same, many of the vending machine problems would be minimized"

Well I think we'd keep the dollar the same size and change all the other ones around to avoid that obvious problem.

11/30/2006 8:14:11 PM

Quote :

"If your point is that we shouldn't accomodate blind people, do you really think it makes sense to appeal to an example where we try to accomodate people who exist with only a torso and no sensory functions? "

Again, my point wasn't that we shouldn't accomodate blind people, but that CBA must be done before you make any changes to a system. Also, I believe no arms + blind doesn't equal "torso and no sensory functions"

But that's just reality.

11/30/2006 8:18:00 PM

Yes CBA is important, but you can't make up whatever the hell you want to try and imply the original costs are too high.

11/30/2006 8:44:40 PM

Just teach the dogs to tell the difference for them.

duh

11/30/2006 8:50:45 PM

Then I apologize that it didn't suit you. I was trying to get him to say "We can't possibly afford to make money easily accessible to each and every person, its always a tradeoff" and I'd say "What makes you so sure the tradeoff between costs and benefits is positive in the case of the blind?"

12/1/2006 7:30:16 AM

i like my

Quote :

"what about rounding particular edges of the bills (eg: no corners rounded = 1, 1 corner rounded = 5, 2 opposite corners rounded = 10, 2 consecutive corners rounded = 20, 3 corners rounded = 50, 4 corners rounded = 100)"

idea

12/1/2006 9:07:51 AM