SINCE ALL OF YOU HOMER REGGIE BUSH HATERS ARE MAKING THESE THREADS TRYING TO JUSTIFY MARIO WILLIAMS EXISTENCE AS THE #1 PICK...HERE IS YOUR CHANCE TO DO SO....STOP WHINING ABOUT WHAT BUSH HASN'T DONE AND LETS FOCUS ON WHAT MARIO WILLIAMS HAS DONE

OH SHIT....MY BAD...HE'S DONE NOTHING

12/29/2006 2:01:05 PM

there are already like 10 threads about this same subject

i guess you were so pissed about west virginia's overrated bullshit hype and their collossal letdown in the last month of the season that you figured you'd make another thread instead of searching

12/29/2006 2:03:00 PM

He has been alright. Bush has been alright. I think the last 4 weeks or so has separated Bush a bit from Williams based on performance but that is subjective.

I still think it was a mistake to take Mario as I said at the time but it's not like one has been clearly better than the other.

I just can't stand the faggots who consistently try to tear down Bush in order to justify it. I'd much rather hear the things Mario has done to justify it..

^ overrated? They started the season ranked lower than where they finished. Overrated would be FSU, Miami, etc..

[Edited on December 29, 2006 at 2:04 PM. Reason : dd]

12/29/2006 2:03:12 PM

maybe people wouldnt feel the need to tear down bush if espn wasnt salivating over his every single play just because he did a neat-looking headfake before he was tackled for no gain

^i agree about miami and fsu...but clearly people like spida overrated the shit out of them...RUN THE TABLE IN THE BIG EAST! NATIONAL CHAMPS!!

[Edited on December 29, 2006 at 2:05 PM. Reason : .]

12/29/2006 2:04:56 PM

So you're mad at ESPN? That's pretty dumb. I know I don't base what I think about a player based on what Scott Van Pelt tells me. Maybe you think Maryland is a football power though?

12/29/2006 2:05:46 PM

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/peter_king/12/24/week16/4.html

Quote :

"I think the Texans made the drafting of Mario Williams and DeMeco Ryans look very, very good Sunday. Both were vital in the win over the Colts. "I don't care how people judge me,'' Williams said afterward. "I know I'm a part of building something good for this franchise.'' He showed it Sunday."

granted, the better move would have been to trade down a few spots, and still get Mario, and another possible first rounder.

12/29/2006 2:06:53 PM

^^I base what I think about a player on what they do in BIG GAMES...not fucking Arizona State football games...big games...like versus Texas..when he didnt do shit...did you miss that game? It was on national television

and with Mario I based it on what I saw him do in college...inconsistent? sure...shows potential of being an unbelievable DE? sure

^oh look Mario's team beat the best offense in the NFL over the last few years?

[Edited on December 29, 2006 at 2:10 PM. Reason : .]

12/29/2006 2:09:58 PM

If you compare a RB/WR with a DE in thier first season, you are a fucking tard that doesn't deserve a response.

1) It's hard to make the highlight reel as a DE
2) DE is a much harder to master than RB/WR. All a RB or slot receiver needs to have some kind of an impact is speed
3) The 'Aints have a whoooole lot more talent to work with than the Texans.

Lets make this comparison in about 3-4 years, if Bush is healthy and not in a wheelchair

[Edited on December 29, 2006 at 2:13 PM. Reason : ]

12/29/2006 2:11:27 PM

OBVIOUSLY LOUISVILLE PROVED THEY WERE THE BETTER TEAM IN THE BIG EAST...BUT THEY ARE ALSO ONE OF THE BEST TEAMS IN THE COUNTRY AND THEY WILL PROVE IT BY THRASHING WAKE....I DON'T THINK ACTUALLY THINKING WVU HAD A CHANCE TO WIN THE BIG EAST WAS THAT FAR OFF BASE CONSIDERING THEY WON IT LAST YEAR....

I THINK ITS A MUCH MORE LOGICAL PREDICTION THEN PREDICTING STATE TO ACTUALLY HAVE A WINNING SEASON...WHICH I AM SURE YOU DID BEFORE THE SEASON STARTED YOU STUPID FUCKING HOMER....GET OFF MY DICK

12/29/2006 2:11:55 PM

he went to NC State to win a national championship

12/29/2006 2:12:26 PM

^ Aha, I remember that

12/29/2006 2:12:42 PM

Then why did you respond if you thought that the case?

It wasn't though because I clearly said it was subjective.. I do think Bush has had more of an impact to his team the last 3 or 4 weeks as I said than Mario has. Just an opinion...

[Edited on December 29, 2006 at 2:13 PM. Reason : 4^]

12/29/2006 2:13:13 PM

Quote :

"I base what I think about a player on what they do in BIG GAMES"

WTF HAS MARIO DONE IN ANY GAME??????.....HE SURE AS HELL ISN'T THE NEXT JULIUS PEPPERS I CAN TELL YOU THAT....WOW THE TEXANS BEAT THE COLTS..WHO FUCKING CARES....I'M SURE NONE OF THE NEW ORLEANS FANS WHO WILL BE AT THEIR PLAYOFF GAME DO

[Edited on December 29, 2006 at 2:15 PM. Reason : A]

12/29/2006 2:15:06 PM

gosh spida is so pissed off that his toothless inbred school got their overrated asses whooped all over the place on national television

12/29/2006 2:15:37 PM

look, i love mario as much as any other state fan, but i will admit bush had a better year.

however, bush also has more in place around him to do well, and i think that is part of it.

also, i think mario still has the potential to be a better long term pick. that doesn't mean he will be, but i think we need to give it about two more full years and then reassess.

12/29/2006 2:16:38 PM

WVU LOST TO 2 BOWL TEAMS....NCSU LOST TO CAROLINA.....I DON'T THINK I NEED TO SAY ANYTHING ELSE

12/29/2006 2:17:45 PM

at least spida waited til week 16/17

unlike macgyver's dumbass who was adamant about reggie being 10000x better before either of them had played a single snap

^LEAST MY TEAM HAS ALL THEIR TEETH AND DOESNT BANG THEIR SISTERS!

[Edited on December 29, 2006 at 2:18 PM. Reason : .]

12/29/2006 2:17:51 PM

LETS GET BACK TO MARIO WILLIAMS HIGHLIGHTS SHALL WE...ANYONE HAVE ANY???




ANYONE???



HELLO??

12/29/2006 2:20:19 PM

the hands down single greatest and most talented offensive talent in the last 50 years of college football scored half a dozen touchdowns in his rookie year! LT is shaking in his boots!

12/29/2006 2:22:31 PM

Quote :

"I do think Bush has had more of an impact to his team the last 3 or 4 weeks as I said than Mario has. Just an opinion... "

I agree, but how can Mario have a super impact from the DE position....especially with so little talent there?

Would Bush have the same success with the Texans? Not likely... they don't have Coltson, Brees, Deuce, etc to draw away focus on him.


Again, comparing a defensive end in his first season to a HB/Slot Receiver is pretty stupid.

Reggie Bush has had a solid impact on the Saints, but let's wait a few years to label him Allah. The average career span for NFL RB's being incredibly short, the fact that DE is a much more skilled and learned position, and the fact that the Texans are still horrible.... I still don't think they made the wrong pick. Mario is a freak of nature... better size speed combo than Peppers. You can't pass that up for a RB


[Edited on December 29, 2006 at 2:24 PM. Reason : ]

12/29/2006 2:22:56 PM

ONE YEAR OF PERFORMANCE IS THE ONLY WAY TO MEASURE A PLAYERS TRUE IMPACT.

LET'S NOT WAIT AND SEE WHO IS MORE VALUABLE WHEN THEIR CONTRACT IS UP FOR RENEWAL.

12/29/2006 2:23:24 PM

12/29/2006 2:23:27 PM

OMG!!!!??? DID YOU SEE HIM IN PRACTICE HIT THAT TACKLE DUMMY????

WOW HE IS A FORCE....WHAT OUT NFL HERE COMES MARIO

12/29/2006 2:29:18 PM

^^^^ quality post, and which is pretty much the long & short of what I've been trying to say on this subject all along. Nobody here could name Mario's backup (or maybe even 5 other defensive starters, for that matter) but everyone knows Drew Brees, Deuce McAllister, Joe Horn, Marques Colston, and now Sean Payton.

[Edited on December 29, 2006 at 2:30 PM. Reason : m]

12/29/2006 2:29:41 PM

I think Houston fans are going to be super pissed this year in the draft as well. My guess is that they pass up Adrian Peterson for a top notch Offensive Tackle or Guard... which in reality, won't be that bad of a move (And while Bush is one of the best college players i've ever seen, Peterson is a much better specimen as an NFL RB. )

12/29/2006 2:34:49 PM

Quote :

"eggie Bush has had a solid impact on the Saints, but let's wait a few years to label him Allah. The average career span for NFL RB's being incredibly short, the fact that DE is a much more skilled and learned position, and the fact that the Texans are still horrible.... I still don't think they made the wrong pick. Mario is a freak of nature... better size speed combo than Peppers. You can't pass that up for a RB"

I agree. I never said that it was the wrong pick because of Bush though I actually was talking about VY and getting something back for Carr (a pick).

12/29/2006 2:35:49 PM

Quote :

"granted, the better move would have been to trade down a few spots, and still get Mario, and another possible first rounder."

Nobody was really willing to budge in the '06 draft, there were at least 25 legit first-rounders as well as another 15 or so fringe guys. All a team had to do was go in with a wish list and they were set.

12/29/2006 2:36:43 PM

I'm still not sold on Vince Young, truthfully. I'm coming along, I'm just not sure he's not gonna be a slightly slower/slightly better passing version of Mike Vick.

It's hard to find a great mobile PASSING quarterback.

Then again, Donovan McNabb worked out pretty damn well.

Time will tell, I guess

[Edited on December 29, 2006 at 2:42 PM. Reason : ]

12/29/2006 2:41:49 PM

Quote :

"I think Houston fans are going to be super pissed this year in the draft as well. My guess is that they pass up Adrian Peterson for a top notch Offensive Tackle or Guard... which in reality, won't be that bad of a move (And while Bush is one of the best college players i've ever seen, Peterson is a much better specimen as an NFL RB. )"

What if you're right about Peterson and the Texans do take him? Won't they look like the smartest kids in class all-of-a-sudden?

Honestly, I think both the Texans and (to a much lesser degree) Saints need to look over towards Titan-land and see what they passed up rather than rehashing the Bush/Williams debate.

12/29/2006 2:45:47 PM

Quote :

"LETS GET BACK TO MARIO WILLIAMS HIGHLIGHTS SHALL WE...ANYONE HAVE ANY??? "

I liked that forced fumble he had last week. That was pretty sick. He stiff armed the lineman with one arm and forced a fumble from the RB with the other.

There's your goddamn highlight.

12/29/2006 2:46:17 PM

Quote :

"What if you're right about Peterson and the Texans do take him? Won't they look like the smartest kids in class all-of-a-sudden? "

The fans will be happy, that's for sure. That said, unless Peterson can run through brick walls, it won't do them any good.

Watching a Chuck Amato coached offense, you all should know very well. No matter what kind of talent you have in the backfield, it doesn't matter without a line (For Vice Versa: See Denver Broncos). Great teams have great lines. Chuck's defenses were amazing despite mediocre secondaries due to Mario, Manny, Tank, McCargo, etc.

We just sucked ass on offense becuase our blocking was nonexistent.

The Texans need some help on the offensive line, more importantly, Left Tackle. IMO, they need to fill that void before spending boatloads on a RB or QB that is going to be a sitting duck back there

Quality DE's, Quality OLinemen (In Particular, Left Tackles), and quality QB's are the most important positions on the field. Again, a quality QB usually isn't enough if you don't have someone watching his blindside

[Edited on December 29, 2006 at 2:55 PM. Reason : ]

12/29/2006 2:53:23 PM

if someone thinks mario is better than reggie as of production by today then they are nuts.

12/29/2006 2:57:18 PM

Quote :

"I'm still not sold on Vince Young, truthfully. I'm coming along, I'm just not sure he's not gonna be a slightly slower/slightly better passing version of Mike Vick. It's hard to find a great mobile PASSING quarterback. Then again, Donovan McNabb worked out pretty damn well. "

Its absolutely hilarious the way people are on VYoung's nuts. As of right now Vick is clearly a better passer and better runner than Young. They are both really good QB's.

The main difference between Vick and Young is that one of them has a great offensive coordinator that utilizes their QB's strengths. Even though Young doesnt compare favorably to Vick in terms of statistics, they've managed to become a slightly more dangerous offense.

McNabb is seriously overrated. When he got hurt in '02 the Eagles went 5-0. When he got hurt in '06 it saved the season for the Eagles because Jeff Garcia was better.

McNabb has been fortunate enough to play on some very talented teams. He's a good QB, but lets be serious for a minute. He's not a GREAT pocket passer. He's no longer a great rushing QB either. His biggest strength is that he's mobile in the pocket and it buys him enough time to hit some WR's that less mobile QB's coudl have never found.

His numbers have been inflated the past couple of seasons because of Terrell Owens being a complete badass and the fact that the Eagles throw the ball on 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th down. They'd throw the ball on 5th down too if they could.




As far as Mario Williams goes. He sucked this year. However, it sometimes takes a few seasons to learn the DE position (granted this was not the case for most studs like Peppers, Kearse, etc). It also needs to be noted that he's been suffering from plantar fascitis all season so that has definitely hindered his performance.

I think the main concern with Mario is that he's shown no burst. You can't be a great pass rusher in the NFL without explosive speed, strength, agility. He's not going to be able to maul NFL OT's with just his size the way he did in college. He is going to have to improve immensely with his hands and footwork if he's ever going to justify going #1 overall.

Ultimately, he's probably not going to be the player that Bush and Vince Young are... but he could be a productive DE for 10-15 years while Bush could be out of the league in 5-6 years if his body breaks down the way many RB's do... If Houston could do it all over again I'm sure they woulda bagged D.Carr (nightmare season) and taken VY... but I can see what they were thinking when they took Mario. The pick looked dubious at the time, but it looks even worse now...

[Edited on December 29, 2006 at 3:17 PM. Reason : a]

12/29/2006 3:08:19 PM

Quote :

"if someone thinks mario is better than reggie as of production by today then they are nuts."

That's like gloating about not failing a class in which you had a 71 average.

12/29/2006 3:30:45 PM

WHAT IS UP WITH THE ALL CAPS?

12/29/2006 3:44:25 PM

reggie bush eats semen

12/29/2006 3:46:19 PM

MY CAPS LOCK IS BROKEN...I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO...I WON'T USE PERIODS

12/29/2006 3:48:04 PM

just hold shift with the caps lock on, dude....it's not rocket surgery.

[Edited on December 29, 2006 at 3:58 PM. Reason : or call your message in via phone to someone who has a working keyboard.]

12/29/2006 3:57:14 PM

Hmm.. rocket surgery you say?

[Edited on December 29, 2006 at 4:00 PM. Reason : sf]

[Edited on December 29, 2006 at 4:00 PM. Reason : sad]

12/29/2006 3:59:51 PM

Quote :

"As of right now Vick is clearly a better passer and better runner than Young. They are both really good QB's. "

Vick clearly a better passer than someone? lay off the crack rock you retard

12/29/2006 4:09:47 PM

Quote :

"if someone thinks mario is better than reggie as of production by today then they are nuts. "

yes, and as previously stated, if you're comparing a RB to DE, then you're a total idiot. Its been stated many times that the Texans DL is absolute garbage, and Mario is getting the attention he deserves....from opposing offensive lines. This thread is yet another worthless argument about two players that should never be compared to each other until their careers are over. And even then, you have to compare them to others at their position, not each other.

12/29/2006 4:19:45 PM

Well he completes a higher percentage of his passes... throws for more yards... turns it over much less


what else does he need to do?

No one would argue VY is a better passer than Vick at this stage of their career. Its not even debatable.

12/29/2006 4:20:41 PM

spida...you're a complete idiot

12/29/2006 4:50:13 PM

Quote :

"Well he completes a higher percentage of his passes"

Vick 52.4%
Young 52.6%

it is funny though that you used to dismiss stats and say "Vick just wins"

I can't recall, which of the two QBs has won his last 6 games???

12/29/2006 5:01:05 PM

Well Vick didn't exactly lose those other games, everyone else did! Duh!! Don't you know that by now...?

12/29/2006 5:09:48 PM

i'll admit that 1/6 tennessee games in their current streak was won by their defense and not young...course i doubt rally could admit that ANYTHING has ever been vick's fault

12/29/2006 5:10:42 PM

If the Texans had picked Bush then Bush would have had some of the worst stats of the year. He'd probably have less yards than Lundy or Dayne.

I think people see that the Texans have no offense which is true, they don't, but there are several factors attributing to this.
a.) The offensive line is terrible and needs to be addressed
b.) David Carr started the season strong but turned into complete crap
and that leaves C, one of the biggest reasons in the decline of production:
Domanick Davis

They lost Domanick Davis at the beginning of the season and he would be the #1 back and has produced decent numbers even with their terrible OL in the past.

If they can get Davis back or pick up either Peterson this year or McFadden next year, then they really wouldn't need a RB like Bush (who let's face it, is going to end up being in the slot most of his career).

The first half of the season Bush sucked and they still hyped him up. They kept saying that teams were "respecting" him and centering their defenses around him, which is one of the most laughable things I heard all season. And the media eventually stopped riding his nuts, and then wham, he had a few good games and no one cares that his first few games he sucked.

I think Williams and Ryans are 2 GREAT building blocks for this team defensively. The Texans are trying to build a team geared at beating the Jags and Colts, and it appears they have started doing just that. Now they just need a new QB and a OL and they'll be in good shape.

12/29/2006 5:41:50 PM

vs the Jags and Colts they were 3-1 this year.

12/29/2006 5:47:00 PM

okay i guess last weeks poor game flip flopped them in completion %.... the other facts remain true though.

Yeah young is wining games because he's being utilized. They are allowing him to run the football and they arent miscasting him in a West Coast offense. Even though his numbers suck compared to Vick, they are a better offense.


Would everyone please give the argument a rest that no one can run behind Houstons o-line? Domanick Davis did just fine behind that line the past 2-3 seasons. Houstons problem is pass blocking, they are adequate in run blocking.

Ron fucking Dayne, Wali undrafted Lundy, and Samkon who Gado are all running for about 4 yards a carry behind that line.

That means an elite back would do just fine in Houston. Personally, i still think they should draft an LT. You can always pick up ladell betts, cedric houston, etc or take a maurice drew type RB in the 2nd round... or even a jerrious norwood.

The NFL is flooded with RB talent, theres no need to waste a top pick on one unless you REALLY need one and you dont have obvious other areas of need.

12/29/2006 5:52:24 PM

Quote :

"That means an elite back would do just fine in Houston"

but what does that have to do with Bush

12/29/2006 5:56:00 PM