This crap pisses me off....really telling what I cancannot do

Quote :

"SACRAMENTO - The state Legislature is about to weigh in on a question that stirs impassioned debate among moms and dads: Should parents spank their children? Assemblywoman Sally Lieber, D-Mountain View, wants to outlaw spanking children up to 3 years old. If she succeeds, California would become the first state in the nation to explicitly ban parents from smacking their kids. Making a swat on the behind a misdemeanor might seem a bit much for some -- and the chances of the idea becoming law appear slim, at best -- but Lieber begs to differ. ``I think it's pretty hard to argue you need to beat a child 3 years old or younger,'' Lieber said. ``Is it OK to whip a 1-year-old or a 6-month-old or a newborn?'' The bill, which is still being drafted, will be written broadly, she added, prohibiting ``any striking of a child, any corporal punishment, smacking, hitting, punching, any of that.'' Lieber said it would be a misdemeanor, punishable by up to a year in jail or a fine up to $1,000, although a legal expert advising her on the proposal said first-time offenders would probably only have to attend parenting classes. The idea is encountering skepticism even before it's been formally introduced. Beyond the debate among child psychologists -- many of whom believe limited spanking can be effective -- the bill is sure to face questions over how practical it is to enforce and opposition from some legislators who generally oppose what they consider ``nanny government.'' ``Where do you stop?'' asked Assemblyman Chuck DeVore, R-Irvine, who said he personally agrees children under 3 shouldn't be spanked but has no desire to make it the law. ``At what point are we going to say we should pass a bill that every parent has to read a minimum of 30 minutes every night to their child? This is right along those same lines.'' One San Jose mother of three said she believes spanking is a poor way to discipline children, but she also wondered whether a legislative ban makes sense. Should a mom who slaps her misbehaving kid in the supermarket, she asked, be liable for a crime? ``If my 6-year-old doesn't put his clothes in the hamper, I'm not going to whack him. He just won't get his clothes washed,'' said Peggy Hertzberg, 38, who teaches parenting classes at the YWCA. ``I think instead of banning spanking, parents need to learn different ways of disciplining and redirecting their children.'' Lieber conceived the idea while chatting with a family friend and legal expert in children's issues worldwide. The friend, Thomas Nazario, said that while banning spanking might seem like a radical step for the United States, more than 10 European countries already do so. Sweden was the first, in 1979. Nazario said there's no good rationale for hitting a child under 3, so the state should draw a ``bright line'' in the law making it clear. ``Why do we allow parents to hit a little child and not someone their own size?'' asked Nazario, a professor at the University of San Francisco Law School. ``Everyone in the state is protected from physical violence, so where do you draw the line? To take a child and spank his little butt until he starts crying, some people would define that as physical violence.'' It's unclear how a spanking ban would be enforced. Most slapping, after all, happens in the confines of a home, and most children up to age 3 aren't capable of reporting it. Doctors, social workers and others who believe a child has been abused are required by law to report it to authorities. Nazario said he and Lieber are still debating whether to treat slapping the same way, or simply to encourage those who witness it to report it. But in either case, said Lieber, the law ``would allow people who view a beating to say, `Excuse me, that's against the law.' '' Experts in child psychology disagree over whether spanking is a legitimate or effective way for parents to discipline their children. Professor Robert Larzelere, who has studied child discipline for 30 years, said his research shows spanking is fine, as long as it's used sparingly and doesn't escalate to abuse. ``If it's used in a limited way,'' the Oklahoma State University professor said, ``it can be more effective than almost any other type of punishment.'' He added that children 18 months old or younger shouldn't be spanked at all, because they can't understand why it's happening. As for Lieber's proposal, the professor said: ``I think this proposal is not just a step too far, it's a leap too far. At least from a scientific perspective there really isn't any research to support the idea that this would make things better for children.'' But Lieber is optimistic that lawmakers will find her proposal hard to resist. For the record, she does not have children and says she was not slapped as a child. But she does have a cat named Snoop, which her veterinarian told her never to hit. ``And if you never hit a cat,'' Lieber said, ``you should never hit a kid.'' "

1/19/2007 11:23:24 AM

damnit Arnold. Get your shit together.

1/19/2007 11:43:42 AM

Arnold is screwing a lot of things up...

California Law Makers Approve K-12 Pro-Homosexual School Bills:
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50246
http://www.cwfa.org/articles/11373/CFI/education/index.htm

1/19/2007 11:48:45 AM

this is stupid

who spanks a 0-3 year old anyway?

[Edited on January 19, 2007 at 11:53 AM. Reason : .]

1/19/2007 11:53:14 AM

i have a better idea. instead of outlawing this, lets hire mike tyson. instead of having him be in jail making lisence plates we can hire him to beat the shit out of anyone who "spanks" a kid under the age of 3.

1/19/2007 11:57:36 AM

^^ I do. When my 2 1/2 yr old son repeatedly throws things at you, repeatedly tries to hit you, or is doing something over and over that he knows is wrong and always stoppped doing them before when we told him to stop. You just have to realize spanking shouldn't be used as a punishment for everything he does wrong. Am I going to spank him for playing to loud? Of course not. How about when he spills his food because he wasn't paying attention? Nope. Am I going to spank my son who is 4 months old. Of course not. 2-3yr olds are very comptetent as to what is right or wrong, and if its something they haven't done before then you only have to tell them a couple of times before they know its wrong. Now if they want to try to make a law that applies to children up to 1 yr or 18 months, I could see the argument for that.

[Edited on January 19, 2007 at 12:05 PM. Reason : carrots]

1/19/2007 12:05:28 PM

1/19/2007 12:08:55 PM

SO MAKE SURE THAT YOU PUT THE TITLE IN ALL CAPS SO EVERYONE KNOWS THAT THIS IS IMPORTANT!!!!!1

1/19/2007 12:10:01 PM

i'm a huge advocate of spanking your kids

but i probably wouldn't do it until they're older than 3 anyway. but hey, if you want to spank, spank away, within reason of course. stupid idea.

1/19/2007 12:14:00 PM

well, it's only for children up to 3, so your title should read "WOULD BAN SPANKING TODDLERS".
i don't have kids and have't been around 2-3 year olds lately, but it is reasonable to me that you shouldn't be spanking kids that young. Maybe 2 and under should be the cut-off, although i don't know if you need a state law for it....

1/19/2007 1:32:23 PM

I'd fuck up a 2 year old if they snitched on me.

1/19/2007 2:05:04 PM

There is almost nothing that would suprise me these says coming out of Kommiefornia. That state is the terminally ill Canary in the coal mine when it comes to the PC cancer that is killing this country.

1/19/2007 2:25:26 PM

Quote :

"Kommiefornia"

cause Arnold is SOOOO liberal.

Quote :

"I'd fuck up a 2 year old if they snitched on me."

/thread

1/19/2007 2:29:32 PM

I love child abuse as well.

1/19/2007 2:39:29 PM

When my boys (27 months and 14 months) do something I tell them not to do (while they are staring at me to show me they are doing it), I just tell them what a good job they are doing not listening to me and give them treats for their disobedience.

It works, try it.

Perfect example of why corporal punishment is needed:
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=456829

[Edited on January 19, 2007 at 2:44 PM. Reason : editing]

1/19/2007 2:43:41 PM

Quote :

"cause Arnold is SOOOO liberal."

Never said anything about Arnold, liberal or not.
But even he had a sufficient lack of logic to ban an entire class of weapons that had never been used in a crime for no good reason at all (.50 caliber rifles).

Let's look at the rest of the state's leading politicians, why don't we?

Dianne Feinstein, Barbara Boxer, Nancy Peolsi? I'm sure I could think of more if I needed to.

California is the nation's capital for liberal nonsense, ineffective feel-good laws, and the eliteist liberal politicians who champion these things.
It's a damn shame these statist bastards have ruined one of the most beautiful states in the union with their socialist bullshit laws.

1/19/2007 3:39:08 PM

^you've named absolutely zero people who would have anything to do with state laws.

1/19/2007 3:40:13 PM

^Those guys have VERY MUCH to do with state laws. They are the ones who lobby fanatically for these crazy laws.

1/19/2007 4:04:21 PM

when was the last time you saw elizabeth dole in the state legislature begging for votes?

why would it be any different in another state?

1/19/2007 4:06:10 PM

This reminds me of the value of the idea that every 20 years or so, all laws are thrown out. The Congress and state legislatures all have to start over.

Then by the time they get to outlawing spanking, they'd have to start all over again.

1/19/2007 5:44:17 PM

1/19/2007 5:51:20 PM

Quote :

" jwb9984: who spanks a 0-3 year old anyway? wolfpack0122: I do. When my 2 1/2 yr old son repeatedly throws things at you, repeatedly tries to hit you, or is doing something over and over... "

yeah, because the best way to teach your kid not to hit people is to beat their ass.



I've got a 2-yr old, who can be very willful and physically destructive, and i would never spank him ever. timeouts are totally effective.




[Edited on January 19, 2007 at 6:08 PM. Reason : ]

1/19/2007 6:08:17 PM

Quote :

"``If my 6-year-old doesn't put his clothes in the hamper, I'm not going to whack him. He just won't get his clothes washed,'' said Peggy Hertzberg, 38, who teaches parenting classes at the YWCA."

Bust the kid's ass.

1/19/2007 9:51:35 PM

that's what Jesus would do. He hates it when you leave your clothes on the ground.

1/20/2007 12:17:30 AM

Quote :

"^^ I do. When my 2 1/2 yr old son repeatedly throws things at you, repeatedly tries to hit you, "

Quote :

"When my boys (27 months and 14 months) do something I tell them not to do (while they are staring at me to show me they are doing it), I just tell them what a good job they are doing not listening to me and give them treats for their disobedience."

y'all need to learn how to raise your children.

Read How to make them mind before you lose yours.

that should make you a better parent eliminating the need for beating.

or just use common sense, logic, and intuition (which sadly, most parents are lacking these days when it comes to raising children).

or call Super Nanny or Nanny 911.

[this post is serious]

[Edited on January 20, 2007 at 4:38 PM. Reason : this reminds me of the mother of the twins on Desperate Housewives. crap parents....]

1/20/2007 4:37:22 PM

i guess this bitch thinks its better psychologically for the child's parents to go to jail and leave them behind rather than spank them.

bullshit in a chef salad

1/20/2007 6:49:39 PM

I don't understand how someone needs to be quoted in the article as saying

Quote :

"``If my 6-year-old doesn't put his clothes in the hamper, I'm not going to whack him. He just won't get his clothes washed,'' said Peggy Hertzberg, 38, who teaches parenting classes at the YWCA. ``I think instead of banning spanking, parents need to learn different ways of disciplining and redirecting their children.''"

Couldn't she think of a better example, maybe with a kid that is in the age range of the proposed law, and something a little more worthy of a spanking like endangering another person or the kid themself?

By the way, I hope Peggy Hertzberg can explain herself when the school's social worker asks why her 6-year-old has poor hygene. "Well, the little brat won't put her clothes in the hamper, so I let her run around in soiled clothes. They learn a stinky lesson and I get some quality time with Dr. Phil. Everyone wins!"

1/20/2007 11:21:02 PM

how does spanking solve that sort of thing?

(and yes it is horrible "journalism")

1/20/2007 11:25:06 PM

well, I didn't mean spanking did solve it. I was critisizing her method of dealing with the empty hamper issue, not so much that she should spank. But, now that I think about it, spaking a 6 yr old so their little butt hurts for a few minutes is likely better than letting them wear soiled clothes.

1/20/2007 11:30:58 PM

that would require figuring out which is more painful. 10 minutes of a sore ass and some crying or being the smelly kid at school.

i say being the smelly kid would be more painful. maybe we should start requiring spanking in such situations. (lesser of two evils)

1/20/2007 11:34:08 PM

I don't really see the problem here.

1/20/2007 11:35:20 PM

^^ Whatever the case, it is obvious that parents cannot raise kids based off of their own experiences and intuitions. It takes a village to raise a child. More specifically, it takes a relatively small group of aristocrats to decide how parents should raise a child.

1/20/2007 11:49:23 PM

Quote :

"It's a damn shame these statist bastards have ruined one of the most beautiful states in the union with their socialist bullshit laws."

Welcome to the "I am on TWW and I think I know something about California" brigade. P.S., you don't.

Let's take a moment and compare California to a relatively conservative place like, say, North Carolina:

* California has more _Republican_ members of the House (20) than NC even has, period (13 total delegates).
* California has the eighth-largest private sector economy in the _world_, and its top income tax rate is 9.3%
* North Carolina is ridiculously poor by national standards and its top income tax rate is 8.25%
* People flock to California for jobs and immigration by the hundreds of thousands. Democratic governor Mike Easley, by contrast, pays off companies (*cough*Dell*cough*) to set up shop.
* In California, you can buy liquor in any grocery store. In North Carolina, you buy it at state-run Alcoholic Beverage Control shops (!!).
* Gambling is much more widely accepted in California (e.g. parimutuel betting). In North Carolina, the only legal form of gambling is a state-run lottery that was passed under-the-table by Mike Easley.
* North Carolina has long held statutes banning "crimes against nature" (e.g. oral sex, sodomy, sex other than in the missionary position). California repealed these laws in _1975_.
* California requires a single smog check to register your car. North Carolina requires year-over-year inspections.
* California's sales tax rate total is 7.25%; in North Carolina, it was 7% until recently. It's still pegged at 6.25% going forward. Keep in mind that NC's general wealth and cost of living is a LOT lower.
* California gave us Ronald Reagan. Its "leading politicians" (Boxer and Feinstein in particular) have mostly local influence. Compare NC, which gave us all the wonderful gift of John "ah'm the son of a mill worker so ah should be president" Edwards.

In general taxes are higher in California. But the general public infrastructure is huge here; the income levels and cost of living are also much higher.

But to say that California is too intrusive on people's personal lives? LOL! What a fucking joke, coming from anyone in the South. Better not try to make a martini on Sunday, guys! The ABC board doesn't approve!

Nowhere in the cited article does it mention any chance of the bill actually passing in the legislature. Californians don't like to pass these things. Case in point: the cell phone ban while driving. It took years to get it through; and even now, it's delayed until 2008 and barely carries any penalties (no points on your license, $20 fine -- and don't think NC won't pass it, eventually, like they do everything else).

Which brings me to my final point for the ignorant "I'm on TWW and I think I know something about California" crowd: the reason California is liberal is because the Republican party doesn't try to compete here. The Republican party has been obsessed with "its base" (read: the rural bumfuck right-wing) as opposed to middle-class, working people.

It's that complacency -- failing to appeal to the majority with focused campaigning -- that led to the 2006 fiasco. Whereas the Democratic party has a 50-state strategy, maybe the Republican party should adopt a 50th-percentile strategy. Starting with the hard-working folks here in the Golden State, building America's future and paying the lion's share of its taxes.

1/26/2007 8:40:52 PM

Arnold is pretty liberal by republican standards. WTF...with some chilluns spanking is the only way to get through to them. Typical California BS...

1/26/2007 8:45:44 PM

land of fruits and nuts

1/26/2007 8:52:24 PM

you said it...

1/26/2007 8:55:55 PM

them dang ol' liberuls out thar on the dang ol' Left Coast.

buncha lesbians and witches is what they are, i tell ya.

worse'n all them pinkos up thar in Taxachussets.

hyuk hyuk hyuk

1/26/2007 10:52:38 PM

Great, I was raised on the fear of god and my fathers belt. Whooping's is a good thing to have for parents to keep there kids in line. They should not take that away from a parent. As long as there is no long lasting damage done let parents whip there kids.

1/26/2007 11:00:01 PM

Only spineless liberal pussies who needed beatings as chilluns would be against this.

I bet joe_schmoe's two daddies never spanked him, at least when he was bad.

[Edited on January 26, 2007 at 11:19 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2007 11:11:42 PM

^ do you understand the difference between spanking a 6 or 12 year old and a 2 year old? Or have you never actually taken care of a child?

1/26/2007 11:45:41 PM

It's not that they don't understand. it's that they won't understand. Wlfpk4life, wolfpack1000, wolfpack2K ... and the rest of the Faux News Sunday crowd, would rather fly off on knee-jerk reactionary rants than bother to actually read the article.

1/27/2007 12:03:43 AM

but the title tells you all you need to know !!!!!!1111

1/27/2007 12:16:16 AM

Wouldn't excessive spanking of a 2 year old fall under already existing child abuse laws? Why does there need to be an law extra law to explicitly ban spanking?

1/27/2007 8:26:52 AM

Some children that young do not understand what no means

you have to drive it home

1/27/2007 9:31:14 AM

Its these types of attitudes that are damaging our country. The ole govt knows best. It seems to me that our grandparents where spanked, not only at home but by teachers as well. And they turned out to be our greatest generation.

Now we have nothing but excuses. Oh my kid cant read because he has ADD, or the teacher hates him, or his feelings get hurt when they play dodgeball. Ever wonder why every kid on medicaid has ADD or whatever you call it this week? Its because our govt pays the family for thier kids "disability", real or not. I dont have kids, but I sure see alot of them to know that we are in serious trouble. The "bargainer" parents are part of the problem. "do this john and Ill buy you this". They are trying to reason with a 3 year old.. amazing to me. When they are older you hear the "he tests well above his grade level, but his grades are bad...BECAUSE...teachers, class size, he LEARNS DIFFERENTLY(one of my favs), and on and on.

So we are legislating and teaching our children that results dont matter, just try hard and feel good about yourself. gotta ban dodgeball, and blame someone else for your childs poor behavior or poor grades. They will never learn that results matter and how to lose at something because of this over nurturting society/legislation. When these poor kids reach the job force they will simply fail. For the first time thier mother cant change schools, blame a teacher, or point to test scores. They will turn in a crap assignment or fail to, and be fired.. no matter how hard they plead at how hard they tried or really really wanted to do well. This will be the first rude awakening for these poor kids. I think you will see that generation will have a higher suicide rate, medication, and entitlement(of course) than previous generations. Then what? Have our govt step in and force companies to hire these people who have been raised that performance doesnt matter as long as you feel good about yourself...you are special?

Its not that far a stretch

1/27/2007 9:52:15 AM

Quote :

"And they turned out to be our greatest generation."

oh, is that a fact now? I was under the impression it was Tom Brokaw's opinion....

1/27/2007 1:31:26 PM

^^ are you done ranting? can we get back to a "real" conversation now?

1/27/2007 3:01:57 PM

^^^ blah blah fucking blah

you're like every mass email forward

while you're at it, you should use ALL CAPS. its much more effective.

1/27/2007 3:54:00 PM

I'd rather they pass a law making it illegal to not read to your children.

I'd totally get behind that.

1/27/2007 4:34:03 PM

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1/27/2007 4:44:26 PM