No article, but this comes from a trucker that works with me:

The reason so many Illegal Immigrants come to America is because Black people refuse to work the jobs and would rather sell crack.


Disclaimer: I do not believe this to be true, but apparently some people do.

Please discuss.

2/13/2007 8:06:22 AM

IBTL

2/13/2007 8:14:48 AM

it could be appropriate to discuss how people get to be this racist? haha

2/13/2007 8:18:27 AM

Illegal Immigration occurs because we felt it necessary to make Immigration Illegal.

2/13/2007 9:15:28 AM

Immigrants are illegal because THE TURK UR JURBS!!1

2/13/2007 10:41:33 AM

Mexico sucks.

2/13/2007 10:49:44 AM

the reasons for illegal immigration are

1) more economic opportunities
2) business interests have lobbied Washington to make it impossible to deny government benefits to illegals (which is bullshit)
3) automatic citizenship to people born in the US (which is bullshit)

2/13/2007 11:13:52 AM

no its becuse everyone refuses to do the work. In high school I was one of many kids that was happy if I got a job on a farm working picking vegtables and doing other manual labor. Now a days high school kids think they are to good to have to do manual labor. Lots of people in this country think they are too good for to many jobs. A jobs a job and if you can earn a living at it then do it.

2/13/2007 11:16:16 AM

Why would anyone want to live in abject poverty working backbreaking with no benefits? A job is not just a job as you put it. I'm sure more people would work these jobs if they were paid actuarial market prices for labor, not the same stagnant wages set and maintained since 1997, while everything else has doubled in price. I'm sure they are probably good jobs for HS kids in agriculture, but remember you also didn't have to pay for your housing, food or medical care either.

[Edited on February 13, 2007 at 11:37 AM. Reason : .]

2/13/2007 11:36:33 AM

3) automatic citizenship to people born in the US (which is bullshit)

You seem to be confusing bullshit with one of the greatest protections from a tyranny of the minority.

2/13/2007 12:01:09 PM

Get rid of a lot of the social programs and you'll solve a lot of these problems.

2/13/2007 12:27:40 PM

^^ let me rephrase that

Automatic citizenship for persons born from illegal immigrants. We cannot just let anyone in the world just get within our border, pop a kid out and use this as a basis for a citizenship application. This country will have more people than China if we continue this trend.

2/13/2007 1:02:52 PM

^ orly? i'd like to see some population growth graphs backing that up. i've heard if it wasn't for immigration (legal or otherwise) that we'd be heading towards negative population growth, much like japan.

2/13/2007 1:07:06 PM

So breakneck growth just for the sake of growth, with little or no thought about long term consequences? Ask China about their "one child policy" or their other population control measures.

2/13/2007 1:19:43 PM

well, after doing some google searching, the closest thing i've seen to what you said asserted that by 2100 we'll have half of china's current population. if we can maintain steady economic growth during the population growth and standard of living doesn't drop too much then i don't see a problem.

but with negative population growth like japan has, you run into problems where social sec. and the like will collapse and the workforce can't supply enough bodies to meet demand and the economy collapses and is exported elsewhere.

2/13/2007 1:24:10 PM

Why doesn't Japan just get some Chinese people? They're practically giving them away.

2/13/2007 1:38:45 PM

Because racism is embedded into their culture just as much as ours, except their crime rate is so low that whenever someone dies they automatically start arresting foreigners, haha.

2/13/2007 1:57:44 PM

if you are born here you are a citizen. stop trying to make distinctions based upon a lack of facts used to justify your racism.

2/13/2007 2:34:38 PM

I haven't seen black people or white people that are willing to get out and do the work that mexicans can do nowadays


not to mention they are more productive


they didn't take my job, I just don't wanna do it... and neither do most white people or black people

2/13/2007 2:42:30 PM

You all realize, of course, it isn't the work itself that is beneath us, but rather the market price for that work.

Quote :

"Ask China about their "one child policy" or their other population control measures."

I don't see why we should; we have a larger land area than China with between a third and a fourth of the population. And hell, a lot of China is damn near empty.

Quote :

"So breakneck growth just for the sake of growth, with little or no thought about long term consequences?"

We can turn this around very easily: "Limiting growth just for the sake of limiting growth?" You have yet to explain why an expanding population is such a fucking tragedy.

[Edited on February 13, 2007 at 4:50 PM. Reason : ]

2/13/2007 4:49:38 PM

Quote :

"So breakneck growth just for the sake of growth, with little or no thought about long term consequences? Ask China about their "one child policy" or their other population control measures."

We shouldn't allow stupid people to irresponsibly wield analogies like this. The difference between the US and China is that we have a functioning market economy that automatically regulates the flow of immigration. No one has to "think" about anything because we don't need central planners and the government to decide what the best level of immigration is -- just like any other fucking market.

When we have reached our limit for immigrants, the benefits that strongly incentivize immigration (such as an abundance of jobs) will cease to exist.

Unfortunately for racists and idiots, the US economy is so vibrant that it absorbs these immigrants, starts them on the path of wealth creation, and grows the economy. This creates an even greater demand for labor. Unlike the Chinese system, more labor is an asset that produces greater returns, not a burden.

The amnesty policy is one of the few policies that Bush has gotten right. It automatically and cheaply solves a bunch of the problems with illegals (trying not to get caught) while recognizing the economic reality that Americans demand more labor. Idiots love to talk about how they hate illegals, but their actions support all of the economic activity that demands illegals.

[Edited on February 13, 2007 at 5:15 PM. Reason : Try getting people to give up their McMansions.]

2/13/2007 5:07:22 PM

Quote :

"they didn't take my job, I just don't wanna do it... and neither do most white people or black people "

If you think that mexican people actually WANT to do this kind of work, you're kidding yourselves also. This is the point of the argument where people actually 'get lost' in words.

these immigrants take the jobs that we "don't want" because the have no choice! They don't have the ability to be selective like the majority of Americans. We have a right to be selective, that's what is so beautiful about our country and economy (to a degree).

we inadvertantly place them "above us" by boosting their work ethic and making it appear better than the average american work ethic. the wages they earn here in america (very low) are way better and pale in comparison to what they earn in their country.

[Edited on February 13, 2007 at 8:29 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2007 8:26:44 PM

Quote :

"They don't have the ability to be selective like the majority of Americans. We have a right to be selective, that's what is so beautiful about our country and economy"

Everyone has a right to be selective about where they apply to work as well as who they hire. Just because the immigrants are willing to select something at a different end of the spectrum doesn't mean they don't have the right to do otherwise. Their lack of choice isn't innate.

2/13/2007 8:32:45 PM

Quote :

"Everyone has a right to be selective about where they apply"

You're missing my point. Their lack of education and ability to speak english in some cases narrows their chances heavily. So, no they don't have a broad spectrum of available jobs they can pick and choose from. They are all low end jobs.

2/13/2007 8:35:06 PM

Of course, but I think it's important to be careful about our choice of terms here. Your post implied that native-born Americans have this right and others don't. You could be born in this country and still lack education and butcher the English language, and your choices would be the same as an immigrant's. (Less, actually, since as a citizen they'd have to pay you minimum wage)

They take low-end jobs because, in effect, it is their comparative market advantage to do so. Most native-born Americans decline the same jobs for the same reason. I get it. Nothing groundbreaking here.

2/13/2007 8:40:07 PM

You are correct for that matter. My point is, I don't think it's a fair assessment to place individuals (americans with h.s diploma or college degree) in the same pool as an illegal immigrant. If you have the credentials,skills, (*american status*), you have the right to be selective. If you don't, then you don't have much of a choice.

But I'm not disagreeing with you on that point about the unskilled american. The only thing that separates the two are status/doctrine.

[Edited on February 13, 2007 at 8:52 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2007 8:52:11 PM

But I disagree even there. Like I said, even the least educated immigrant has the right to be selective. Now, he might starve to death, because companies can be just as selective about who they hire. Ultimately, what I'm saying is that education does not afford you any rights. Rights are something that you're born with. Education may buy the privilege of better job choices, but it does nothing to your rights.

Maybe it seems like a minor semantic distinction, but to someone who values immigrant rights, it just isn't.

2/14/2007 2:31:32 AM

Credentials/education are self investments. Any person(s) with these are able to be selective. Now if you're an "Illegal Immigrant", you are therefore not "able" to be selective.

ex; The average hardworking american (with skills etc) chooses not to work low paying jobs. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this picture. Any person with education and skills deserve better paying jobs . *better than picking tomatoes for slave wages*.

to the contrary; The average hardworking "Illegal immigrant" has no choice (really) to decide on what job to work. It's unlikey that they can apply to an entry level job.

Since it is a fact that most illegal immigrants are uneducated, the only jobs they can be "selective" from are the low wage opportunities. Now if you want to discuss rights, what "rights" are ILLEGAL immigrants granted (other than obvious humane ones)?

2/14/2007 4:45:40 PM

A lot of the Mexicans that work for me make more money than the average NC State grad starting out. They have plenty of choices for decent work at decent pay.

There are also plenty of programs designed to help immigrants gain job skills, and many immigrants take advantage of these programs.

Quote :

"We have a right to be selective, that's what is so beautiful about our country and economy (to a degree)."

"right" is a very bad choice of words. You should just fix that and admit that you were wrong.

2/14/2007 4:58:37 PM

I don't really understand what overall point that WayneGro is making. Illegal immigrants cannot be as selective (almost tautological) , so......?

2/14/2007 5:05:17 PM

You're correct. Right Privilige is what I meant to change it to in the previous post.

^^What kind of business do you own? Are your workers documented? I think it's funny that a lot of individuals use the term "Mexicans" when talking "illegals".

Quote :

"I haven't seen black people or white people that are willing to get out and do the work that mexicans can do nowadays"

I was mainly addressing this mindset that a ton of people have. Looking at it from this angle says americans are lazy and illegals are hardworking and that is simply not true. I then made the counter-claim that (majority of --> ) americans have the privilege of being very selective and overlooking these low paying jobs with no benefits. Most illegals don't have that privilege.

Now the counter-rebuttal was; there are some americans that don't have the "privilege" of being selective. Vice versa.



[Edited on February 14, 2007 at 5:33 PM. Reason : .]

2/14/2007 5:23:28 PM

Quote :

"I think it's funny that a lot of individuals use the term "Mexicans" when talking "illegals"."

Why? It's virtually synonymous.

I don't own a business, but I work for an engineering contractor. We pay prevailing wage, which means a skilled laborers and operators make close to 40 bucks an hour plus benefits and overtime pay.

We ask for the standard photo ID + SS card, but every illegal who is worth a damn has some fake documentation.

It's not our job to be investigators. We just do what the law says, and if the SS# bounces back as being bullshit, we fire the guy.

[Edited on February 14, 2007 at 5:32 PM. Reason : 2]

2/14/2007 5:31:34 PM

So, then they are not "Illegal" in your case. Why did you jump in claiming they make more on average?

Quote :

"Why? It's virtually synonymous."

Because they're not only mexicans! Everyone assumes spanish speakers = mexicans. These people come from all over central america an so on. It just falls into the stereotype.

[Edited on February 14, 2007 at 5:36 PM. Reason : .]

2/14/2007 5:35:44 PM

Quote :

"Looking at it from this angle says americans are lazy and illegals are hardworking and that is simply not true."

I've worked as a superintendent, and illegals definitely work a lot harder. It simply is true. Of course there are many factors involved, but its pretty well documented that immigrants and particularly Mexicans have a better work ethic on average than most native Americans.

You can argue about choices or whatever else, but Mexicans bust their ass out on the jobsite, unlike the vast majority of native-born Americans.

2/14/2007 5:37:17 PM

Quote :

"Because they're not only mexicans! Everyone assumes spanish speakers = mexicans. These people come from all over central america an so on."

I'll continue to call them Mexicans until I run into another type of illegal.

^^And yes, a lot of the workers in my company are illegal. 100% of the field guys at the previous company I worked at were illegal. Just because they copied a valid SS# from somebody else doesn't make them legal.

2/14/2007 5:39:43 PM

sais who? Your small sample size? I like to read where it says" illegals work harder than americans". This is something subjective. Totally.

Quote :

"A lot of the Mexicans that work for me make more money than the average NC State grad starting out."

What was your point here? I'm simply talking about undocumented illegals, not the legitimate ones that work for your company.

Quote :

"I've worked as a superintendent, and illegals definitely work a lot harder"

Bingo.Wait...which one is it? are they illegal or not? If they are illegal, I then go back to my "privilege" claim.

This whole "illegals work harder" thing sounds like something out of Willie Lynch's making of a slave!

[Edited on February 14, 2007 at 5:45 PM. Reason : .]

2/14/2007 5:40:40 PM

Quote :

"I'm simply talking about undocumented illegals, not the legitimate ones that work for your company."

I'm talking about illegals, too. There are some legal workers in my current company, and there are a lot of illegals as well. We don't discriminate, everybody gets prevailing wage.

Quote :

"What was your point here?"

My point was that illegals have choices, it's not like they are forced to work their asses off or starve.

Quote :

"I like to read where it says" illegals work harder than americans". This is something subjective. Totally."

It's about as subjective as "blacks are better at basketball than whites". I'm not gonna fucking prove it for you. Step out on a jobsite, ANY jobsite, and see for yourself.

[Edited on February 14, 2007 at 5:50 PM. Reason : 2]

2/14/2007 5:48:49 PM

Quote :

"It's about as subjective as "blacks are better at basketball than whites". "

hahaha ftw

2/14/2007 5:53:32 PM

Quote :

"Step out on a jobsite, ANY jobsite, and see for yourself."

Well, that's funny considering my father owns a construction company and I don't relate to what you're saying. I will not argue the subjectivity of this. It's foolish. It's the Willie Lynch mindset and I don't agree.

Quote :

""blacks are better at basketball than whites". "

Totally foolish. Seriously, what world do you live in? I'll be the bad-guy in this situation because I won't stereotype people.

Quote :

"My point was that illegals have choices, it's not like they are forced to work their asses off or starve."

Their choices = beating the system by stealing fake ss#'s.

[Edited on February 14, 2007 at 5:57 PM. Reason : .]

2/14/2007 5:54:02 PM

Quote :

"3) automatic citizenship to people born in the US (which is bullshit) "

hahahhahahahahahahah, what a fucking idiot you are

not only is your comment unpatriotic but goes against the constitution. And you know this will never happen. Give 4-5 generation and the majority will not be white but hispanic. So I suggest you start sucking my balls now before I deport your family in the future, faggot.

2/14/2007 6:18:54 PM

Quote :

"not only is your comment unpatriotic but goes against the constitution. And you know this will never happen. Give 4-5 generation and the majority will not be white but hispanic. So I suggest you start sucking my balls now before I deport your family in the future, faggot."

I'm sorry, what will never happen? Automatic citizenship for everyone born in America? Am I interpreting your babble correctly?

Quote :

"what world do you live in?"

I was gonna ask you the same thing.

[Edited on February 14, 2007 at 6:22 PM. Reason : 2]

2/14/2007 6:19:58 PM

maybe people born in the US should have to take a test to become a full citizen.

I know several people who are extremely far right who could not tell you a single fuckin thing about the civil war or either of the world wars.

kinda pathetic.

2/14/2007 6:25:57 PM

We should strip citizenship rights from those on the far right who are ignorant of history?

Well in that case we should just deport the idiots on the far left who don't know the first damn thing about economics, business, or personal hygiene for that matter. God damn hippies.

2/14/2007 6:29:15 PM

do we test immigrants on that stuff?

also just because you read The Fountainhead doesn't make you an economist and business majors are worthless.

2/14/2007 6:31:44 PM

Quote :

"If you think that mexican people actually WANT to do this kind of work, you're kidding yourselves also. This is the point of the argument where people actually 'get lost' in words. "

you're kidding me, right?


apparently you've not been paying attention

2/14/2007 6:36:36 PM

^^What the fuck does The Fountainhead have to do with economics? Why even bring up business majors?

What a random post.

2/14/2007 7:04:55 PM

Quote :

"I'm sorry, what will never happen? Automatic citizenship for everyone born in America? Am I interpreting your babble correctly?"

I was defending people born in the country from illegal immigrants. Scuba steve was calling that bullshit so I called him out saying he was unpatriotic and was going against the constitution. I also mentioned that in 3-4 generations from now the majority of people here in the US will be hispanic and not white.

I dont get where you lost me, perhaps it was your 2nd grade reading comprehension skills.

2/14/2007 7:29:11 PM

^^^Picking tomatoes on a farm in 100 degree + weather, for barely nothing....

The epitome of slavery. If these people would have the chance to experience life on the other side of the fence, they'd tell those farm owners to kiss their asses.

[Edited on February 14, 2007 at 7:47 PM. Reason : .]

2/14/2007 7:35:49 PM

Quote :

"Mexico sucks"

Actually, I think that's pretty much it...namely, that it's a lot better to be poor in the U.S. than poor in Mexico and as long as that's true people will continue to come here

Quote :

"Because they're not only mexicans! Everyone assumes spanish speakers = mexicans."

More than half of all illegal immigrants are Mexican

2/14/2007 7:50:17 PM

Quote :

"More than half of all illegal immigrants are Mexican"

Okay....and....

2/14/2007 7:54:55 PM