(Couldn't fit it all in the title)

Agree or Disagree? And why?

2/13/2007 12:14:46 PM

as such that we eliminate merit based scholarships ? is that what you're getting at?

2/13/2007 12:18:32 PM

Merit, ethnicity, etc... it's up to you to interprete it. Just trying to get some discussion going.

2/13/2007 12:19:33 PM

i think that scholarships should be given primarily based on merit, with some based on economic status, and few/none based on ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, political affiliation, the price of rice in China, etc.

2/13/2007 12:23:58 PM

Scholarships should be based on what you want to encourage.

If you want more academic stars at your school, give more academic scholarships.

If you want more athletic stars at your school, give more athletic scholarships.

If you want more poor people at your school, give scholarships to poor people.

2/13/2007 12:26:21 PM

ethnicity based scholarships do annoy me :x

I really wanted the average white guy scholarship ... but alas it did not exist.

2/13/2007 12:34:02 PM

If Joe Biden can still find the mind to say "Obama is the most articulate black man" then the country is not ready for non-race based scholarships yet.

2/13/2007 12:38:52 PM

a sad but true reality.

doesn't necessarily excuse it tho. How do things change if we always keep them the same ? it's a self-perpetuating cycle the more of a deal we make about it

[Edited on February 13, 2007 at 12:58 PM. Reason : /]

2/13/2007 12:46:17 PM

That's a good point, we could start by scaling back some AA programs, which i've always advocated, but it's not yet time to completely eliminate them.

2/13/2007 1:10:29 PM

or, we could just do like georgia and make tuition free for all students who maintain B averages and pay for their education with the lottery and eliminate the NEED for scholarships and turn them into more of an incentive to extend education through research based scholarships.

2/13/2007 1:14:17 PM

I would agree that publicly funded scholarships should be need based, and privately funded scholarships should be based on whatever criteria the funder decides.

2/13/2007 2:10:12 PM

Publicly financed race-based scholarships do not exist, as far as I know...after the SC decision, they were all but shut down...so I don't understand what the complaint is.

2/13/2007 2:10:15 PM

^^who would want to do a thing like that.

[Edited on February 13, 2007 at 2:20 PM. Reason : up one.]

2/13/2007 2:20:16 PM

like what?

I cited two different situations.

2/13/2007 2:24:55 PM

Quote :

"I would agree that publicly funded scholarships should be need based, and privately funded scholarships should be based on whatever criteria the funder decides."

keeping status quo is fine by me

2/13/2007 2:31:35 PM

In the long run I think they should all be merit-based, but unfortunately that's not really an option under the current system where merit is pretty much washed out of the equation by the time a kid is ready to apply for college.

Kid A and Kid B might be born with completely equal mental faculties, but if A is a poor black kid and B is a middle-class WASP, by the time they get through the education system A will not have the merit that B does. So, until we beat the hell out of the system and make it so that merit is the basis for everything from the start, I support heavy consideration of economic factors in giving out scholarships.

And of course I can't really say what private scholarships can and can't do, though I will not hesitate to say what I think they should do.

[Edited on February 13, 2007 at 4:54 PM. Reason : ]

2/13/2007 4:53:37 PM

^But what's the difference if instead it's a poor white kid and a black middle class kid?

2/13/2007 5:30:15 PM

GrumpyLIB

2/13/2007 5:40:50 PM

^^Oh, I'm confident that most of the disparity is across economic lines, not racial ones. But it would have sounded a blatant attempt to be PC if I'd said "poor white kid/middle class black kid."

That said, there are certain elements to much of black American culture that create impediments that are not eixstent, or at least not as prevalent, in whit culture. Put another way: I've heard popular country songs talk about going to college, but I can't say the same about rap, and I listen to both fairly regularly (although of course this is prone to the same problems as every other bit of anecdotal evidence, obviously, but you get the idea).

^Maybe, maybe not. I don't think that supporting a meritocracy is inherently liberal or conservative.

[Edited on February 13, 2007 at 6:15 PM. Reason : ]

2/13/2007 6:14:03 PM

^I don't agree with your analogy of country music. While it is predominantly a "White" form of music, it's definitely not representative of the White culture as a whole considering not a large percentage of Whites listen to Country. You could say the same thing about Classical music being "White" music.

2/13/2007 8:31:03 PM

Ah, no, nor is that how I intended it, though I didn't do the best job of explaining myself.

Though of course a great many people from all economic strata like country music, I don't think it would be unfair to say that it is especially popular among poorer whites. Since I was comparing poor whites to poor blacks, it seemed the thing to go with. My goal was to illustrate that between the two races in the same economic strata, there are certain cultural differences that are easily highlighted by the distinction between the two musical groups.

2/13/2007 8:36:48 PM

Quote :

"or, we could just do like georgia and make tuition free for all students who maintain B averages"

I can't imagine the crazy grade inflation that would lead to.

2/13/2007 9:01:29 PM

Nope thats a bad idea. All my friends that worked growing up like I did spent all the money they had so when it came down to need they had no moeny. There parents also were largely in debt for just over spending. My family saved money didn't get all of the same things as other family's and we pay for my education. Scholarship's need to be based on merit and need both. If you earn something its better than being given a hand out.

2/14/2007 8:46:50 AM

I don't think there should be government sponsored scholarships for ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, political affiliation, etc., they should be solely merit or financial need. If a lot more of the merit scholarships go to one group, so be it. If a lot more of the need scholarships go to one group, oh well. Any other organization can give money to whoever they want, they just have to worry about pissing off their shareholders, customers, colleagues etc.

2/14/2007 4:07:58 PM

Quote :

"I can't imagine the crazy grade inflation that would lead to."

well - apparently not much since Georgia is ranked 49th in the nation for average graduating highschool GPA's

2/14/2007 4:40:52 PM

Quote :

"I've heard popular country songs talk about going to college, but I can't say the same about rap,"

2/19/2007 5:41:23 PM

^BUT HE DROPPED OUT LIKE ALL TEH COLOREDS

2/19/2007 5:41:49 PM

25 secs ... damn you're fast






[Edited on February 19, 2007 at 5:48 PM. Reason : ]

2/19/2007 5:42:45 PM

you probalby knew i was about to click Soap Box before you posted

2/19/2007 5:48:33 PM

agreed, because its better to be a socialist than a racist

2/19/2007 6:46:27 PM

Quote :

"agreed, because its better to be a socialist than a racist"

Not if you live in Greensboro

2/19/2007 7:19:58 PM

Oh, fuck the goddamn commie-nazi shootout. If either of those sides have a chance at heaven, it isn't the fucking KKK. Their day will come, sooner or later, through me or somebody else. History is on our side. The dung heap is on theirs.

Quote :

"I've heard popular country songs talk about going to college, but I can't say the same about rap"

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see that I'm talking about popularsentiment, given my word choice.

2/20/2007 2:08:14 AM

Quote :

"i think that scholarships should be given primarily based on merit, with some based on economic status, and few/none based on ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, political affiliation, the price of rice in China, etc."

Remember, too, if a given scholarship is based solely on skin color, the aid may not even benefit an American minority.

2/20/2007 4:02:41 AM

Quote :

"i think that scholarships should be given primarily based on merit, with some based on economic status, and few/none based on ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, political affiliation, the price of rice in China, etc."

How should we determine merit?

2/20/2007 4:33:57 AM

Quote :

"In the long run I think they should all be merit-based"

Quote :

"And of course I can't really say what private scholarships can and can't do, though I will not hesitate to say what I think they should do."

agreed.

Quote :

"I don't agree with your analogy of country music. While it is predominantly a "White" form of music, it's definitely not representative of the White culture as a whole considering not a large percentage of Whites listen to Country. You could say the same thing about Classical music being "White" music."

you totally missed his point. his point was that while the disparity is more across socio-economic lines, there are a few race-culture elements at work, too. using country music to be representative of white people made sense, because it's associated with blue collar, lower and lower middle class white society.

Quote :

"How should we determine merit?"

grades, community involvement/service, etc.

2/20/2007 9:43:06 AM

^Would we be controlling for grades?

2/20/2007 5:08:32 PM