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salisburyboy
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The following link from the website of Fordham University contains a 1543 letter by Martin Luther on the subject of the Jews entitled "On the Jews and Their Lies." The letter is quite lengthy, and I have read a good portion of it, though not all of it. Although I disagree with Luther on several issues (including whether the so-called "Jews" are the actual physical descendants of the Israelites...and whether Paul/Saul's writings should be part of the cannon of Scripture), Luther makes many insightful observations regarding the religion, nature, and influence of the Jews.

As is overwhelmingly clear from these writings, Luther views the Jews as a subversive, greedy, accursed, malicious, and greatly evil people, who are descended from the very people who murdered Jesus, and who deeply hate Christianity and God's people, and are working in every possible way to harm Christian civilization. Among other things, Luther analyzes the false teaching and perversions of Scripture in the Talmud, including vicious hatred directed towards Jesus and Christians, as well as recounting the many times Jews have been expelled from European nations.

I have quoted some of the more interesting passages below. The article is well worth taking a look at, especially for Protestant Christians...but also others interested in a historical perspective on the subject of traditional Christian attitudes towards Judaism and the Jews.


http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/1543-Luther-JewsandLies-full.html

Quote :
"I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them. But since I learned that those miserable and accursed people do not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews and who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have believed that a Christian could be duped by the Jews into taking their exile and wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is the god of the world, and wherever God's word is absent he has an easy task, not only with the weak but also with the strong. May God help us. Amen. "


(first paragraph of the letter)

Quote :
"Why, their Talmud and their rabbis record that it is no sin for a Jew to kill a Gentile, but it is only a sin for him to kill a brother Israelite. Nor is it a sin for a Jew to break his oath to a Gentile. Likewise, they say that it is rendering God a service to steal or rob from a Goy, as they in fact do through their usury. For since they believe that they are the noble blood and the circumcised saints and we the accursed Goyim, they cannot treat us too harshly or commit sin against us, for they are the lords of the world and we are their servants, yes, their cattle.

...they installed money-changers, traders, and all sorts of usurers in the temple, prompting our Lord to say that they had made the house of God into a den of robbers [Matt. 21:13; Luke 19:46]. Now figure out for yourself what a great honor that is and how the temple is filled with such glory that God must call his own house a den of robbers because so many souls had been murdered through their greedy, false doctrine, that is, through double idolatry. The Jews still persist in such doctrine to the present day. They imitate their fathers and pervert God's word. They are steeped in greed, in usury, they steal and murder where they can and ever teach their children to do likewise.

[...]

Someone may think that I am saying too much. I am not saying too much, but too little- for I see their writings. They curse us Goyim. In their synagogues and in their prayers they wish us every misfortune. They rob us of our money and goods through their usury, and they play on us every wicked trick they can. And the worst of it is that they still claim to have done right and well, that is, to have done God a service. And they teach the doing of such things. No pagan ever acted thus; in fact, no one acts thus except the devil himself, or whomever he possesses, as he has possessed the Jews."

(NOTE: For passages cited above, see approximately 70% down page)

Quote :
"For it [ie, the Jewish religion - my emphasis] abounds with witchcraft, conjuring signs, figures, and the tetragrammaton of the name, that is, with idolatry, envy, and conceit. Moreover, they are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury. Thus they live from day to day, together with wife and child, by theft and robbery, as arch-thieves and robbers, in the most impenitent security. For a usurer is an arch-thief and a robber who should rightly be hanged on the gallows seven times higher than other thieves."

(NOTE: For passage cited above, see approximately 80% down page)

Quote :
"Further, they presume to instruct God and prescribe the manner in which he is to redeem them. For the Jews, these very learned saints, look upon God as a poor cobbler equipped with only a left last for making shoes. This is to say that he is to kill and exterminate all of us Goyim through their Messiah, so that they can lay their hands on the land, the goods, and the government of the whole world. And now a storm breaks over us with curses, defamation, and derision that cannot be expressed with words. They wish that sword and war, distress and every misfortune may overtake us accursed Goyim. They vent their curses on us openly every Saturday in their synagogues and daily in their homes. They teach, urge, and train their children from infancy to remain the bitter, virulent, and wrathful enemies of the Christians.

This gives you a clear picture of their conception of the fifth commandment and their observation of it. They have been blood thirsty bloodhounds and murderers of all Christendom for more than fourteen hundred years in their intentions, and would undoubtedly prefer to be such with their deeds. Thus they have been accused of poisoning water and wells, of kidnaping children, of piercing them through with an awl, of hacking them in pieces, and in that way secretly cooling their wrath with the blood of Christians, for all of which they have often been condemned to death by fire.


[...]

In addition, no one is holding them here now. The country and the roads are open for them to proceed to their land whenever they wish. If they did so, we would be glad to present gifts to them on the occasion; it would be good riddance. For they are a heavy burden, a plague, a pestilence, a sheer misfortune for our country. Proof for this is found in the fact that they have often been expelled forcibly from a country, far from being held captive in it. Thus they were banished from France (which they call *Tsorfath,* from Obadiah 20), which was an especially fine nest. Very recently they were banished by our dear Emperor Charles from Spain, the very best nest of all (which they called *Sefarad,* also on the basis of Obadiah). This year they were expelled from the entire Bohemian crownland, where they had one of the best nests, in Prague. Likewise, during my lifetime they have been driven from Regensburg, Magdeburg, and other places.

[...]

In fact, they hold us Christians captive in our own country. They let us work in the sweat of our brow to earn money and property while they sit behind the stove, idle away the time, fart, and roast pears. They stuff themselves, guzzle, and live in luxury and ease from our hard-earned goods. With their accursed usury they hold us and our property captive. Moreover, they mock and deride us because we work and let them play the role of lazy squires at our expense and in our land. Thus they are our masters and we are their servants, with our property, our sweat, and our labor. And by way of reward and thanks they curse our Lord and us! Should the devil not laugh and dance if he can enjoy such a fine paradise at the expense of us Christians?He devours what is ours through his saints, the Jews, and repays us by insulting us, in addition to mocking and cursing both God and man."

(NOTE: For passage cited above, see approximately 95% down page)


I find it quite interesting that Luther spends such time speaking against the Jews' use of usury, for it is by use of usurious banking that elite Jewish interests have attained their vast power and influence in the Western world since the time of Luther....aggregating such wealth and power that they now dominate or control the media, government, and most other important societal institutions.


[Edited on February 17, 2007 at 4:20 PM. Reason : ``]

2/17/2007 4:03:04 PM

Dentaldamn
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I thought you hated black people.

2/17/2007 4:04:06 PM

guth
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whats this? someone in the 1500's hated the jews? mind shattering!

2/17/2007 4:25:35 PM

salisburyboy
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Quote :
"I thought you hated black people."


Quote :
"someone in the 1500's hated the jews?"


Hatred in and of its self is not a bad thing. And it is quite funny that lemmings like you repeat the mantra that "hate" is a bad thing at the behest of the establishment-controlled media. It matters what it is that you hate. Do you hate that which is good? Or do you hate that which is evil?

If you want to call it "hate", then so be it. The bottom line is that I am strongly opposed to Jewish religion and influence. By that standard, Martin Luther as well as Jesus Christ himself "hated" the Jews.

As I have explained in another thread in this forum, the fact of the matter is that God loves some people and hates others. The so-called "Jews" happen to be some of those people God hates.

*GOD* is a "racist" and "anti-Semite"
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=392028

2/17/2007 4:32:31 PM

jpark10
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dont believe everything thats on the internet....including this statement

2/17/2007 4:33:00 PM

salisburyboy
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Quote :
"dont believe everything thats on the internet....including this statement"


You are only to believe whatever those in the Jewish-controlled "mainstream" media and establishment tell you to believe. Only they dispense the truth and determine what is acceptable and unacceptable.

2/17/2007 4:35:23 PM

guth
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i mean he should have hated the jews, they killed christians for their blood

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/08/wjews08.xml

Quote :
"Professor outrages Jews with book claim

By Andrew M Rosemarine
February 9, 2007

A Jewish academic has shocked Italy by claiming Jews murdered Christians for their blood in the Middle Ages so it could be used in rituals.

The details were revealed in the Italian newspaper, the Corriere della Sera, which published extracts of the book, Easter of Blood by Professor Ariel Toaff.

The claims were denied by leading Jewish figures including his father Elio, once the chief Rabbi of Rome.

In the book, Prof Toaff alleges the ritual killing was carried out by members of a fundamentalist group in reaction to the persecution of Jews.

The book describes the mutilation and crucifixion of a two-year-old boy to recreate Christ’s execution at Pesach, the Jewish Easter. The festival marks the fleeing of the Jews from Egypt and Prof Toaff says Christian blood was used for "magic and therapeutic practices".

In some cases the blood was mixed with dough to make azzimo, unleavened bread, eaten at Pesach. He says the acts took place in around the city of Trento in modern northern Italy, between the 11th and 14th centuries.

Prof Toaff based his book on confessions he says came from Jews captured and tried for the practice. He said several were executed after confessing to the crucifixion of Christian children.

Italy’s senior rabbis, including Elio Toaff, issued a joint statement condemning the book. "There has never existed in Jewish tradition any permission or custom for using human blood for ritual purposes. Such a practice is considered with horror.

"It is absolutely improper to use centuries old statements, extracted under torture, to formulate singular and aberrant historical theses. The only blood shed in these stories is that of many innocent Jews."

Prof Toaff, who teaches mediaeval and Renaissance history at Bar Ilan University in Jerusalem, said the reaction was a "disgrace" as they had not read the book, which has yet to be published.

He emphasised the practice was confined to "a small group of fundamentalists."

He added that attacking the whole of Judaism would be similar to blaming Islam for the acts of extremist Muslims. "They had suffered from the trauma of mass suicides. [sic] It was both a kind of revenge and a way, for them, of seeking redemption.""



Related...

A Jewish woman on the Oprah show in 1989 claims similar rituals occurred in her family, involving child sacrifice and satan/devil worship
VIDEO: http://www.usajewish.com/downloads/vicki-devil-worship.wmv


Oh, right...I know...this could NEVER be true. But what about the stories in the Bible of the Canaanite tribes worshiping Molech and sacrificing children to him?

Satan worship and occultism has been going on for centuries. It's real.

And the religion of "Judaism" is not what many people think. It is not just the Old Testament. It is a perversion of the Old Testament. The most important book in Judaism is the Babylonian Talmud....and, yes, "Babylonian" is officially used in the title. The Talmud takes pieces from the Old Testament, and mixes in Babylonian occultism. The Talmud contains some of the most vile, evil, and anti-Christian teachings in existence. It is, in every sense of the word, a Satanic book.


"I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan" --Revelation 2:9


Research Judaism and the Talmud for yourself.

2/17/2007 4:38:16 PM

RevoltNow
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^0/10 for facts
2/10 for effort

2/17/2007 5:06:42 PM

3 of 11
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Thought this thread was about MLK... check.

2/17/2007 5:23:01 PM

AxlBonBach
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Historical context is everything.

2/17/2007 5:34:22 PM

Wlfpk4Life
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Hold up...somebody actually agrees with salisburyboy?

2/17/2007 5:36:22 PM

Boone
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Martin Luther agrees that the Jews control the United States

2/17/2007 6:08:31 PM

WayneGro
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To say what "God" hates and likes (when refering to people) is going out on a limb. I really don't think he "hates" for the just because reason. More so, like he hates idol worshippers. Rather counter visceral to create a race (I know Jew isn't a race) of people just to hate them.

I firmly understand your agenda is to vilify Jewish people. But you use the teaching of christ as contradictory in your effort. There are selective passages throughout the bible that condem some of everything. Not solely one division of people. You ignore multiple passages of sharing love for "mankind" etc.

[Edited on February 18, 2007 at 12:01 AM. Reason : .]

2/17/2007 11:56:15 PM

billyboy
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Cue the pic of Carl holding his head in disgust.

2/18/2007 1:33:02 AM

chembob
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2/18/2007 2:05:10 AM

Wlfpk4Life
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I think it's funny that everybody dumps on salisburyboy but hardly anybody says anything to guth when he basically backs salisburyboy up.

2/18/2007 8:56:58 AM

guth
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ummmmm, ahahahahaha

what an idiot

2/18/2007 9:42:10 AM

RevoltNow
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^^i said he was full of shit. cause he is.

2/18/2007 9:48:49 AM

guth
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My overall point is that Jews (and specifically "organized" or elite Jewry) has been responsible for much more persecution and victimization than has been brought against them.

Yes, Jews have suffered some persecution in the past. For instance, they have been expelled from nearly every European country at some point in history. Now why is that? Could it have anything to do with things such as the "blood libel" incidents and their propensity to aggregate wealth via usury banking, wreck the economies of nations, degrade the morality in a nation (eg, current media and Hollywood "entertainment"), etc? The point is that the Jews have deserved this "persecution." The idea that Jews are innocent victims throughout history who've done nothing wrong and everyone just hates them for no apparant reason is a myth. As is the Holocaust story. Yes, Jews went to slave labor camps, but the camps were not "extermination camps."

Organized Jewry is responsible for the murder or deaths of over a hundred million non-Jews, primarily white Christians....eg, via the fomentation and orchestration of World Wars I & II, the Bolshevik "revolution" and genocide, current Iraq War, etc.

2/18/2007 9:51:28 AM

Wlfpk4Life
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^^ Well, I did say hardly anybody, and you are correct for calling him out.

The holocaust story...LOL! As if the killing of millions of jews is a myth.

[Edited on February 18, 2007 at 9:59 AM. Reason : more]

2/18/2007 9:58:23 AM

guth
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Based upon my research, elites of Jewish descent are the primary players in this drive towards a "new world order." This Jewish "cabal" (if you will) is the group that controls the U.S. and other Western governments, bought up and control Western "mainstream" media....all via their control of international banking. For example, there is little dispute that elite Jewish interests control Hollywood. The same goes for broadcast television. Anyone who does a little research will find this is true.

That said, I realize there are many non-Jewish elites who are knowingly involved in this "new world order" conspiracy. But they are mere lackeys and minions of the Jewish banking cabal that has the power.

2/18/2007 10:01:30 AM

Wlfpk4Life
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You are quite an enigma. I didn't know that hardcore liberals bought into far rightwing conspiracy theories of jewish world domination.

2/18/2007 10:02:55 AM

guth
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I'm in no way affiliated with National Socialists/Nazis. As are ~99%+ people who hold views such as myself. Neo-nazi groups and other similar organizations are controlled opposition groups. They have very small memberships...yet the government and establishment media is constantly referring to them when they want to demonize people with certain viewpoints (eg, opposition to massive non-white immigration, white separatists, those critical of Zionism and the state of Israel, etc.)

Many such groups are infiltrated by FBI and other government agents. Many were founded and are controlled by the government or Zionist interests. These controlled opposition groups exist to draw in and neutralize many people who would be inclined to oppose Zionism and the system. But more importantly, they exist to serve as the (media created) "poster child" for those who would oppose Zionism, illegal immigration, etc. The establishment media brings them out whenever they want to demonize people with certain viewpoints. Even despite the fact that the membership in these groups is very small. While the organizations maintain legitimate positions on several issues, the literature, marches, and other things produced by the organizations is of intentionally poor quality. Ridiculous items such as worship of Hitler, occult doctrine, and other false ideology is prominent in such organizations. The purpose of this all...of course...being to smear the truth by mixing truth with falsehoods, associating the truth with demonized/ridiculous groups, etc.

2/18/2007 10:12:31 AM

methos
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Is there a reason we should care about this? So Martin Luther hated Jews, what of it? Just another man - a very dead man, in this case - with opinions. It doesn't exactly shatter my worldview.

Second, from the introduction of the page you link:

Quote :
"However, sometime before 1517, in his Letters to Spalatin, we can already see that Luther's hatred of Jews, best seen in tis 1543 letter, was not some affectation of old age, but was present very early on. Luther expected Jews to convert to his purified Christianity. When they did not, he turned violently against them.

...

Second, although Luther's comments seem to be proto-Nazi, they are better seen as part of tradition of Medieval Christian anti-semitism. While there is little doubt that Christian anti-Semitism laid the social and cultural basis for modern anti-Semitism, modern anti-Semitism does differ in being based on pseud-scientific notions of race. The Nazis imprisoned and killed Jews who had converted to Christianity: Luther would have welcomed them."


Now I know next to nothing about Luther, and my memory of that part of world history is basically blank because I haven't studied that period since high school, so all I've got to go on is this. Also, I can only assume the person who wrote this is Professor Halsall, and I'd like to think that I can trust the words of a Professor of History to be, while not necessarily fact, at least a well-educated statement.

Really all I get from that is one question, which is that if Luther considered Jews to be hateful, subversive, greedy bastards, would he have been completely accepting of their behavior had they converted to (his version of) Christianity?

2/18/2007 12:43:34 PM

salisburyboy
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Quote :
"I think it's funny that everybody dumps on salisburyboy but hardly anybody says anything to guth when he basically backs salisburyboy up."


guth is cutting and pasting posts that I made on the campus blender site

Go to the following thread and see (this thread is from where he is getting the posts he pasted in this thread):
http://www.campusblender.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=254492

2/19/2007 7:49:05 AM

jocristian
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Quote :
"I think it's funny that everybody dumps on salisburyboy but hardly anybody says anything to guth when he basically backs salisburyboy up."


LOLLERCAUST

2/19/2007 10:52:07 AM

BobbyDigital
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Il seguente collegamento dal Web site dell'università di Fordham contiene una lettera 1543 da Martin Luther a proposito degli ebrei intitolati "sugli ebrei e sulle loro bugie." La lettera è abbastanza lunga e gli ho letto una buona parte, comunque non tutta di esso. Anche se non sono d'accordo con Luther su parecchie edizioni (che includono se i cosiddetti "ebrei" sono i discendenti fisici reali dei israelites... e se le scritture di Paul/Saul's dovrebbero fare parte del cannone di Scripture), Luther fa molte osservazioni insightful per quanto riguarda la religione, la natura e l'influenza degli ebrei. Come è in modo schiacciante chiare da queste scritture, le viste di Luther gli ebrei come un sovversivo, greedy, accursed, cattivo e notevolmente gente diabolica, che è discesa dalla gente stessa che ha assassinato Jesus e che profondamente odia il christianity e la gente del dio e stanno funzionando in ogni senso possibile nuoc la civilizzazione cristiana. Tra l'altro, Luther analizza l'insegnamento falso ed i perversions di Scripture nel Talmud, compreso odio vizioso orientato verso Jesus ed i cristiani, così come il racconto dei molti ebrei di periodi sono stati espulsi dalle nazioni europee. Ho citato alcuni dei passaggi più interessanti qui sotto. L'articolo è buono degno dare un'occhiata a, particolarmente per i cristiani protestanti... ma anche altri interessati ad una prospettiva storica a proposito degli atteggiamenti cristiani tradizionali nei confronti di judaism e degli ebrei.

2/19/2007 10:52:41 AM

salisburyboy
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If Martin Luther were alive today, he would be villified by the Jewish-controlled media and establishment as a "bigotted racist anti-Semite" (blah, blah, blah), and he would probably be thrown in jail under the "anti-hate speech" laws in Europe.

2/19/2007 11:40:58 AM

e30ncsu
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wouldnt most people from that period be called racist bigots?

2/19/2007 11:42:36 AM

methos
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Quote :
"If Martin Luther were alive today, he would be villified by the Jewish-controlled media and establishment as a "bigotted racist anti-Semite" (blah, blah, blah), and he would probably be thrown in jail under the "anti-hate speech" laws in Europe"


OK, so we're not supposed to care what Martin Luther thinks. You just want another thread where you can bash the term "anti-semite".

Righto, well, you have fun with that. I look forward to your next attempt to declare your same rigid opinions on the same meaningless topic under a different name.

Or does that describe all of your threads?

2/19/2007 12:01:04 PM

goalielax
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who

the

fuck

cares

2/19/2007 12:15:46 PM

salisburyboy
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Quote :
"wouldnt most people from that period be called racist bigots?"


Which should tell you that the villification of people who hold certain beliefs, and the labelling of those people as "intolerant bigotted xenophobic racist anti-Semitic" (ad naseum) is nothing but propaganda from the Jewish-controlled "mainstream" media and establishment.

People all through the ages have looked out for the collective interest of their own kindred and those in their own race. And they spoke plainly and boldly about other religions and those of other races, without any fear of being labelled "racists", "bigots", "anti-Semites", "anti-muslim", etc (*GASP*...the horror!).

Only recently has it become verboten and "evil" (by today's politically correct Jewish-media standards) to hold such beliefs.

2/19/2007 1:18:38 PM

30thAnnZ
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are you ever going to get tired of this shit?

2/19/2007 1:46:27 PM

RevoltNow
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"i dont hate jews. i just spend all my time trying to prove that they are responsible for every bad thing in the world ever"

2/19/2007 2:04:57 PM

Mr. Joshua
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Martin Luther also mocked Copernicus and his notion of heliocentrism.

Does that validate the belief that the earth is the center of the universe?

2/19/2007 3:06:26 PM

salisburyboy
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Quote :
"Martin Luther also mocked Copernicus and his notion of heliocentrism.

Does that validate the belief that the earth is the center of the universe?"


Talk about fallacious/ridiculous arguments.

Yes, mr joshua, because Martin Luther may have been wrong on one issue, that means he was wrong on EVERY OTHER position he ever took on any and all subjects.

But please. Keep posting your idiocy, mr joshua.

2/19/2007 3:10:24 PM

RevoltNow
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martin luther also wrote extensively about having battles with the devil involving him throwing poop.

2/19/2007 3:18:43 PM

salisburyboy
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And what does Luther's opinion on heliocentrism have to do with his views on Jews and Judaism?

Practically EVERYONE (99.99%) of people living at that time believed the earth was the center of the universe.

2/19/2007 3:25:09 PM

RevoltNow
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wrong

2/19/2007 3:27:26 PM

salisburyboy
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Wait...YOU'RE RIGHT! Because Luther (just like 99.999% of those of his day) didn't know the truth about the nature of the universe due to forthcoming scientific discoveries, that means he couldn't accurately judge and observe the nature and influence of Judaism and Jews.

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!!!!!

2/19/2007 3:30:36 PM

guth
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Quote :
"Martin Luther also mocked Copernicus and his notion of heliocentrism.

Does that validate the belief that the earth is the center of the universe?"

well we do know that you can find fireworms under the serface of the earth, presumably somewhere above where hell is physically located inside the earth. and if i remember correctly you can hear screams too.

[Edited on February 19, 2007 at 3:33 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2007 3:33:37 PM

RevoltNow
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so it doesnt bother you that he was batshit crazy? need i repeat, HE THREW HIS OWN SHIT AT THE DEVIL!!!

2/19/2007 3:34:54 PM

Mr. Joshua
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Quote :
"Yes, mr joshua, because Martin Luther may have been wrong on one issue, that means he was wrong on EVERY OTHER position he ever took on any and all subjects."


Your argument is along the same lines. You want us to believe that since Martin Luther was a key figure in the reformation his opinion on jews validates your own - that's another fallacious/ridiculous argument, little buddy.

Martin Luther was neither an expert on astronomy or judaism.

2/19/2007 3:36:45 PM

salisburyboy
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Quote :
"Martin Luther was neither an expert on astronomy or judaism."


Astronomy, perhaps not.

But judging from his writings, it appears quite clear that he was very well informed as far as Judaism and the Jews. He had studied the Talmud extensively, debated with Jewish rabbis regarding the doctrines of Christiantiy and Judaism, etc.

2/19/2007 3:41:54 PM

Mr. Joshua
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Quote :
"But judging from his writings, it appears quite clear that he was very well informed as far as Judaism and the Jews."


Of course you would say that. He holds the same view as you so you are inclined to dismiss his ignorance and complement his prejudices.

So tell me this, if 99.999% percent of people believed that the earth was the center of the universe in the 1500s, what percentage was anti-semitic?

2/19/2007 3:48:23 PM

guth
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i went ahead and made this thread for you on campusblender

2/19/2007 3:53:12 PM

Mr. Joshua
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It all comes down to your search for respectable figures whose views are similar to your own. The fact that you can't win people over with your horrible arguments and accusations and instead must try to use a bandwagon approach shows the weakness of your position.

Why not make an Adolf Hitler was an "anti-Semite" thread? Because that would do nothing but give people more reason to disagree with you.

I welcome the day when you use legitimate facts instead of the words of long dead men and long debunked stories about jewish cabals.

2/19/2007 4:04:34 PM

joe_schmoe
All American
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it's true, Martin Luther was a rabid anti-semite.

he also was batshit crazy.

which is why, if you go to any mainstream lutheran church, they really try to steer any discussions away from Martin Luther. his books are marginalized even in their own theology.

2/19/2007 4:10:53 PM

salisburyboy
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Quote :
"he also was batshit crazy"


Why? Because he claimed to have encounters with the devil? Or were they dreams? I can't remember if they were dreams or allegedly real encounters.

Perhaps he really did have an encounter with a deamon or devil.

Anyway, is that it? Is that why you say he's "crazy"?

2/19/2007 4:16:49 PM

willyummm
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^ Other than Luther's Catechisms, you're more likely to find the works of Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Luther's antisemitism rarely, if ever, is mentioned in the church because of its incompatibility with most of the relatively liberal leanings of a good portion of Lutheran churches and of Lutheran doctrine.

2/19/2007 4:19:46 PM

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