Liberal Hollywood is scratching its collective head. How could a movie with the combination of kick-ass effects and a strongly illiberal message become a run-away hit?

One head-scratching reviewer from the L.A. Times wrote:

Quote :

"There was every reason for "300" to flop -- no big-name stars (although Gerard Butler is now decidedly on the map), an R rating, a historical story and, before the weekend, Warner Brothers tracking found that there was only 68% public awareness of the film. So how did "300" become the biggest film ever to open in March, set the record for best opening weekend for IMAX screens, and earn the third-biggest opening for an R-rated film? The consensus seems to be that this movie was a success because of its specific and arresting visuals. There are also mundane reasons "300" might have done well. A generally warm weekend across the country encouraged people to get out of the house and brave long lines, and no other major film was released against "300," so it didn't have much competition. And while the critics have been lukewarm on the film -- faulting it for poor dialogue and a thin story -- nobody has said anything negative about the visuals. And to a generation of kids who have grown up with the lush worlds of video games, "300" was a familiar visual masterpiece. "

National Review, poking fun at liberals, comments on the film....

Quote :

"Help me out here, because I’m having trouble wrapping my mind around a few things: When, early in the film, a sneering Persian emissary insults King Leonidas’s hot wife, threatens the kingdom, and rages about “blasphemy,” the king kicks him down a bottomless well. And yet nobody in Sparta asks, “Why do they hate us?” and seeks to find common ground with the Persians on their doorstep. Why not? The Spartans mock the god-king Xerxes (whose traveling throne resembles a particularly louche Brazilian gay-pride carnival float), mow down his armored “immortal” holy warriors clad is nothing but red cloaks, loincloths, and sandals, and generally give their last full measure to defend Greek civilization against superstition and tyranny. Where are the liberal Spartan voices raised in protest against this blatant homophobia, xenophobia, and racism? The only way this bunch of refugees from a Village People show can whup our heroes is by dangling some dubious hookers in front of a horny hunchback who makes Quasimodo look like Tom Cruise, and by bribing a corrupt legislator to tie up reinforcements with various legalistic maneuvers. When the queen finally kills the councilor, the others call him a “traitor.” Isn’t that both blaming the victim and questioning his patriotism?"

This film and "V for Vendetta" seem to suggest that the current source for pro-liberty film messages are coming out of the cutting-edge comics world.

3/17/2007 10:32:54 AM

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3/17/2007 10:41:03 AM

I don't see how comparing a war between two extremely barbaric groups of people as an ample comparison to anything happening in the world currently.



also i haven't seen this yet but I haven't paid to see a movie in a few months If I had the cash I would go watch it at the IMAX.

3/17/2007 10:42:26 AM

maybe this will provoke hollywood to get off their liberal soapbox and make good movies instead of taking every chance they can to take a shot at our govt

3/17/2007 10:50:45 AM

Quote :

"How could a movie with the combination of kick-ass effects and a strongly illiberal message become a run-away hit?"

Because everything that Hollywood puts out these days is total shit. I have no idea whether or not this is a "good" film and suffers from the problems that they accuse it of (though personally I thought it was kick-ass), but in any case it's fucking outstanding compared to Hollywood's tripe shit. This is basically the pot trying to call the kettle black, except that the kettle isn't all that black while the pot is really really really black.

3/17/2007 10:56:22 AM

the story from 300 is good enough without having to gay it up with CGI and shit.

3/17/2007 10:56:59 AM

I realize there is already an entertainment thread on the flick. But I'm not looking for film analysis but political comment.

For instance, when the hunchback begs to be included in the ranks of the 300...he is told that he can't because he couldn't protect the others in battle...couldn't do the job. Of course in today's world, where every child wins first prize in fear of upsetting their self-image, that kind of discrimination would be illegal.

And D-Damn, to think that humanity has shaken off its barbarous mantel after all these years is pretty naive. Wouldn't you agree?

3/17/2007 10:57:17 AM

Quote :

"And D-Damn, to think that humanity has shaken off its barbarous mantel after all these years is pretty naive. Wouldn't you agree?"

I never said anyone has shaken off their barbarous mantel but I did say comparing the Spartans and their actions to an "anti-liberal" agenda or some how pissing off liberals is extremely silly since Sparta was pretty much a military state which most modern conservatives would have a hissy fit about. This movie displays an account of an event which most US citizens would want nothing to do with. Thats why its popular and why I went and saw Smoking Aces.

also how is this different than any history movie. Braveheart had soldiers raping newly weds and Wallace killing lots of people and that movie got awards out the ass. And if any liberals are someone confused by this film they're retarded and apparently have never seen any action film...ever. Regardless I want to see this movie because Frank Miller is an overall badass.

3/17/2007 11:15:48 AM

Wait... liberals have a problem with this movie?

When did this happen?

3/17/2007 11:19:41 AM

^yeah i guess im still trying to answer this question with too many words.

3/17/2007 11:24:32 AM

I think this is a case of conservatives not understanding liberals, and expecting OUTRAGE when there just isn't anything to get in a fuss about.

3/17/2007 11:31:28 AM

Any review in the media is considered liberal by this dolt because they discuss liberal talking points such as bad acting, bad writing, and lack of substance.


I'm wondering why someone is trying to make a straight up action movie something more than it is? The answer -- people who are desperate to justify their own obvious failures are grasping at straws.

[Edited on March 17, 2007 at 12:25 PM. Reason : ds]

3/17/2007 12:23:38 PM

i didnt know liberals had a problem with this movie

3/17/2007 12:32:41 PM

I would guess that if it upsets liberals, it's because it both glorifies war and suggests that you shouldn't back down from a fight. That could be seen as an anti-liberal message, I guess.

3/17/2007 1:47:41 PM

because liberals are all about not backing down from fights when there is a direct threat.

3/17/2007 1:53:32 PM

very few conservatives would actually be happy with any imitation of the spartan system.

having said that,

Quote :

"i didnt know liberals had a problem with this movie"

3/17/2007 1:55:03 PM

I can see why conservatives would love it, though. They're all about some closeted military-themed homoeroticism nowadays.

3/17/2007 1:59:45 PM

men wearing only underwear - check
women wearing full dress - check
gay grease party - check


[Edited on March 17, 2007 at 2:07 PM. Reason : orgy with tigers and 12 year olds after battle - double check]

3/17/2007 2:06:44 PM

There's too much inner conflict over that kind of stuff for them to be public about it.

3/17/2007 2:07:49 PM

Quote :

"For instance, when the hunchback begs to be included in the ranks of the 300...he is told that he can't because he couldn't protect the others in battle...couldn't do the job. Of course in today's world, where every child wins first prize in fear of upsetting their self-image, that kind of discrimination would be illegal."

I dont think we'll be letting hunchbacks into our military any time soon.

And btw

Sparta throws BABIES off a CLIFF, and no one makes a fuss. End of story.

3/17/2007 2:42:09 PM

Late-term abortions.

Clearly conservatives will have a problem with this.

Excuse me while I make a thread asking why 300 us upsetting conservatives.

3/17/2007 3:06:10 PM

actually, they probably wouldnt care. killing people has never bothered conservatives. its just killing unborn people they mind.

3/17/2007 3:42:16 PM

^Basically.

Until I read this thread I had no idea that liberals even had a problem with this movie. Now on the other hand, I heard that people in the Middle East were bitching like WHOA! about this movie. Unfortunately that's only hearsay, so I can't cite a credible source for that claim.

3/17/2007 3:45:29 PM

Oh, well then the conservative train of thought here is obvious:

Middle East <=> terrorists <=> liberals.

3/17/2007 3:59:18 PM

i hope people in the middle east have a problem with this. that way we can all agree that getting worked up about nothing is a human trait and not just for americans.

3/17/2007 4:17:02 PM

Quote :

"killing people has never botheredhas always been a favorite pastime of conservatives. its just killing unborn fetuses and braindead people they mind. "

3/17/2007 4:43:15 PM

This thread is so motherfucking ignorant of both film and comics that it makes me want to vomit.

Quote :

"This film and "V for Vendetta" seem to suggest that the current source for pro-liberty film messages are coming out of the cutting-edge comics world"

Yes....the cutting-edge comics world. Of 1982.

3/17/2007 4:44:59 PM

this thread is pretty stupid

3/17/2007 8:01:55 PM

i agree.

3/17/2007 9:26:31 PM

Liberal movie reviewers, while amazed by the effects, are having trouble accepting the underlying theme of the movie. Good vs evil, Freedom isn't Free, Only the strong survive etc.

Here are some samples of a couple reviewers who just can't seem to get on board with the theme.

Quote :

"Most of 300's stylized excess would be forgiven, though, had it resisted a desire to turn its band of suicidal Conans into loving fathers, husbands, and defenders of the bedrock of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness--albeit in the form of child abuse, brutal coming-of-age rituals, and a rejection of ideas of social responsibility and stewardship of the weak."

Quote :

"300 is one of the few modern movies that not only glorifies soldiers and their bravery, but war itself. The film-makers suggest that war is useful as a character-building tool, that dying in battle is the most fitting end for true men, and that people unwilling to fight are cowards. While some noise is made about fighting for freedom, one gets the sense that Spartan Mens' main motivation is simply to not get beat or, at least, to not lose honor (a nearly forgotten concept in the Western world and, therefore a shocking idea to many moderns). Not once does the king consider peaceful alternatives or regret steering events towards war."

And a conservative response...

Quote :

"And the left doesn't like it at all. Many reviewers have panned "300" not on artistic grounds, or even on grounds of inanity, but on the grounds that the Spartans in the film are a bunch of jackbooted thugs; that the tyranny they fight is less tyrannical than Sparta; that good vs. evil is too simplistic. "His troops are like al Qaeda in adult diapers," writes Kyle Smith of the New York Post. "Keeping in mind Slate's Mickey Kaus' Hitler Rule -- never compare anything to Hitler -- it isn't a stretch to imagine Adolf's boys at a "300" screening, heil-fiving each other throughout and then lining up to see it again." A.O. Scott makes the obligatory racial point: "It may be worth pointing out that unlike their mostly black and brown foes, the Spartans and their fellow Greeks are white." The Iranians don't like "300," either. Javad Shamqadri, an art adviser to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, proclaims that "300" is "part of a comprehensive U.S. psychological war aimed at Iranian culture." "Following the Islamic Revolution in Iran," explains Shamqadri, "Hollywood and cultural authorities in the U.S. initiated studies to figure out how to attack Iranian culture ? certainly, the recent movie is a product of such studies." Of course, "300" is not meant to be a historically accurate portrayal of the battle of Thermopylae. It is a cartoonish movie with a simple theme -- a theme that resonates with the American public. It is no surprise that the Iranian regime -- the embodiment of evil in today's world -- objects to a movie depicting a conflict between ancient Western civilization and ancient Persian civilization as a conflict between good and evil. And it is not surprising that the left objects to any movie pitting freedom against tyranny and coming out squarely on the side of freedom. -Ben Shapiro"

Quote :

"Yes....the cutting-edge comics world. Of 1982."

Does the publish date really determine if something is cutting edge? "Atlas Shrugged" and "1984" were written many years ago.

BTW The director of 300 is now working on an adaptation of "Watchmen" based on the comic by Alan Moore & Dave Gibbons who also did "V for Vendetta".

3/17/2007 10:29:18 PM

I just saw it.

Pretty kick ass.

If conservatives want to suggest that the hyper-nationalism and militarism portrayed in this film is an ideal for the United States, then "hah-hah" on them for being closet-fascists. If liberals want to take offense with Spartan culture, then "hah-hah" on them for taking an action flick too seriously.

3/17/2007 11:28:27 PM

Quote :

"i didnt know liberals had a problem with this movie"

I consider myself more liberal than conservative, but I enjoyed the movie. This is news to me.

3/17/2007 11:29:47 PM

lol, I guess some people don't want to separate fantasy from reality

3/17/2007 11:47:50 PM

Quote :

"Does the publish date really determine if something is cutting edge?"

Yes, of course it does. If V were ever cutting edge, it would have to have been, by definition, when it was NEW.

I don't know why I'm bothering to reiterate this in this thread, but 300 is a mediocre action movie with very little plot and zero character development. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but I think its visual content isn't good enough to really justify the complete lack of anything else. I also think anybody seeing political content in the film, one way or the other, is probably a tool. It's a vehicle for a stylized look and special effects. Nothing more.

3/18/2007 12:06:27 AM

^
I can find political content in any film. It's a gift.

3/18/2007 1:42:34 AM

I'm not saying that you can't draw analogies and create meaning for yourself. What I'm saying is that, from the standpoint of the creators, there was no such intent.

3/18/2007 1:43:44 AM

My liberal history and classics professors (b/c you know they get stereotyped as liberal as often as the media is) have loved the movie, and a lot of my friends (also liberal) have loved the movie and seen it on multiple occasions. This sounds like the opinion of a few liberal critics rather than the population at large. Besides the greeks were defending a society that embraced polytheism, homosexuality, and in the end they talked about “fighting mysticism” which sounds a lot like they are valuing reason/philosophy/science which the greeks started up over religion.


All I’m saying is this was an action flick, it wasn’t all that liberal or conservative, and if either group wants to read too much into it then they could both find themselves offended over nothing.

3/18/2007 7:02:14 AM

i would like to point out that the two "liberal" reviews addressed the themes of the film and the "conservative" review started out with "and the left doesnt like it at all."

according to my dad im a "flaming liberal" and this movie is cool in my book. Frank Miller can do no wrong.

3/18/2007 10:41:59 AM

It's just a movie. And an entertaining one at that.

Can't it be possible to like movies such as "300" and "The Birdcage"?

It's entertainment. It's not real.

3/18/2007 4:56:35 PM

ive yet to see anything that suggests any liberal outrage over this movie

3/18/2007 8:14:07 PM

Frank Miller hates pussy liberals

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=24146_Batman_Artist_No_Moonbat&only

3/18/2007 9:09:14 PM

They genetically mutilate their daughters.

3/18/2007 9:20:13 PM

wow i didn't see that take coming from him at all

3/18/2007 9:24:05 PM

Quote :

"Frank Miller hates pussy liberals "

Hah what a great interview! He really knocked that NPR dude for a loop. Thanks for posting.

After listening to that, it is easy to see why the comic and fiilm slant the way they do. It may not be causing an uproar in liberal ranks. But the fact that the country is responding so positively to the underlying themes must be pretty irritating to them.

3/18/2007 11:28:07 PM

This guy is kinda "a problem"

He points out that the microphone he is speaking into and the planes that were stolen could never have been a product of Islamist culture. That's true, but I would add that they could never have been a product of people who believe Bush made a mistake by not mobilizing the country for war after 9/11.

But when people like Frank Miller make that complaint, what do they mean by it? What constitutes mobilization? A draft? Wage and price controls? Do they not realize that the only threat to American Civilization comes from internal corruptors, which find it far easier to do their work in times of war.

3/18/2007 11:58:20 PM

worst title to a thread in history. name one of these so called "upset liberals"

3/19/2007 12:19:04 AM

Quote :

" Hah what a great interview! He really knocked that NPR dude for a loop. Thanks for posting. After listening to that, it is easy to see why the comic and fiilm slant the way they do. It may not be causing an uproar in liberal ranks. But the fact that the country is responding so positively to the underlying themes must be pretty irritating to them. "

The thought of sticking it to those liberals just makes you all giddy in the pants doesnt it?

Hate to burst your bubble, but no one really gives a crap.

3/19/2007 12:54:54 AM

pretending to be liberal isnt funny.

pretending to be a conservative is hilarious.

3/19/2007 8:50:14 AM

What is fun about this interview is the fact that NPR usually does a pretty good job of not sticking people in front of their interviewers who will disagree with the party line. They probably thought Miller, because he was an artist, would automatically be against the war.

3/19/2007 9:39:24 AM

they interview people of all kinds of political beliefs all the time, i think youre really far up your ass about this liberal outrage thing

3/19/2007 9:49:52 AM