Quote :

"Monsters, Ltd. by Gary North I need your help. I am writing a high school textbook in American history. As I research the nation's history, I keep coming across bad guys. The trouble is, most of them are widely regarded as good guys. It is very difficult to tell the story of America to teenagers when you have to point out that most of the men on white horses actually rode brown horses with whitewash. I am thinking of writing a supplemental book on the worst of the bad guys. Murray Rothbard always called these people monsters. He had a long list of them. I want to focus on the worst ones. Do you have any favorites? Here is my methodology. I ask: "How would America be better off today if these people had sold insurance instead?" This is known as as if historiography. It is hypothetical. Sadly, the legacies that these people left behind are anything but hypothetical. PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE I decided long ago who the worst person was. You have no possibility of persuading me otherwise. My mind is made up. Here are the criteria. The person must have been the following: Self-conscious Dedicated Conspiratorial Agenda-driven Successful in achieving this agenda Destructive on an unprecedented scale Economical: more bang for the buck Other people's money Still revered by liberal intellectuals Think about this. Who would your choice be? Don't be too hasty. Give this some thought. See if you can find someone worse. He was a known murderer who got away with it. He was lauded by the media despite these murders, mainly because he went on another bloody rampage. He was presented by the media as a hero. He was funded by an intellectual elite: other people's money. His agenda was to start a revolution that would bathe the nation in blood, which he saw as redemptive. He pulled it off, almost (but not quite) singlehandedly. Liberal intellectuals still regard this destruction as redemptive, and acknowledge that he was the prime mover. Give up? John Brown, the hero of Pottawatomie Creek. I rest my case. WELL DONE, MR. PRESIDENT Abraham Lincoln was John Brown's dream come true. They were a team. Without Brown's 1859 raid, Lincoln might not have been elected, for he seemed to be a moderate in the North in 1860 and a Jacobin in the South – the perfect candidate for old Brown. Then there are the usual suspects: Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, and Lyndon Johnson. All of them ran on peace platforms and then took the country into a war. All of them ran up the national debt, although FDR put the other two to shame in this regard. All of them centralized the economy. Johnson, while not heralded as a redeemer by the media, is still presented as a man who got good things accomplished, all things considered. Basically, he is praised with faint damns. THE SUNSHINE BOYS Of course, none of this would have been possible had it not been for the stand-up team of Madison and Hamilton. Madison ran the most successful conspiratorial coup in history, for the heirs of the victims still do not perceive that it was a coup. I have written a book on this, Conspiracy in Philadelphia. In this regard, he is unrivaled. Had it not been for him, America would still be a confederation of states. Washington D.C. might still belong to the Gore family. All of Virginia might still be dominated by the Byrd family, rather than just the western section. This is not to say Madison was all bark and no bite. He got us into the War in 1812. Yet he gets little credit for this from historians, who regard the War of 1812 as an unnecessary war. It was more of a national embarrassment than a national catastrophe. So, Madison fails the media's "Go and do thou likewise" test. To say that it was an unnecessary war is not doing it justice. It was quite necessary, given the fact that Madison had failed in 1811 to get Congress to renew the charter for the Hamilton-created, privately owned, Federal monopoly known as the Bank of the United States. Stephen Girard of Philadelphia, the richest man in the country, saw what had to be done. He bought the Bank's assets and changed its name to the Bank of Stephen Girard. Then he waited for his next opportunity. He soon got it: the War of 1812. The national debt rose so high so fast that Girard personally funded 95% of the 1814 war loan. The payoff for this was that Madison made Girard's lawyer, Alexander Dallas, the Secretary of the Treasury, who then wrote the charter for the Second Bank of the United States. Madison sold this project to Congress, along with a big hike in tariffs, so as to pay off the debt owed to Girard. Both laws passed in the same month (April, 1816). This made sure that Girard would be repaid on time and at face value. He then bought controlling interest in the Bank. In October, Dallas resigned and went back to Philadelphia. Mission accomplished. But historians are unaware of all this, so Madison is not praised for any of it. Nice try, Jimmy, but no cigar. Hamilton is a very hot commodity these days in the market for books on the Founding Fathers. Biographies of him abound. Most important, Ron Chernow wrote one, which makes Hamilton media-worthy. He has also written books on John D. Rockefeller, Sr., the Warburgs, and the House of Morgan. Hamilton lied repeatedly about the Constitution in The Federalist, downplaying its centralization potential. He always knew what the new government could do, and as Secretary of the Treasury, he helped to do it. He turned the national government into a banker's dream come true. First, he consolidated state debts in order to get political support for a larger central government. Then he gave us our first central bank. Had it not been for foul-up Jimmy, who failed to persuade Congress in 1811 to re-charter it, it would have survived until Jackson's era, and maybe beyond. Hamilton had big plans. He needed a big government to achieve them. This is why he is so beloved (Rothbard's beloved word) today. OTHER FRONT-RUNNERS What would America be today without John D. Rockefeller, Jr. and the various Rockefeller foundations? Better off. Teddy Roosevelt never got us into a war, although he did his best to humiliate Woodrow Wilson into taking us into World War I. He surely incarnated the Progressive movement. He was a poster boy for big government as no other President had been before him. Then there was Horace Mann, who ran the newly created public school system in Massachusetts in the 1840's. He set the pattern for all of his successors: a defender of the redemptive power of tax-funded education. CONCLUSION So many scoundrels. So little time. Send me your suggestions. There's always room for one more. "

Hopefully Hillary won't get far enough politically to make the list. Anyway...Who would the SBers nominate and why?

[Edited on March 26, 2007 at 9:57 AM. Reason : .]

3/26/2007 9:56:59 AM

i'll nominate George W. Bush just so nobody else can

3/26/2007 10:01:11 AM

^^FDR didn't exactly "take the country into war"

3/26/2007 10:08:27 AM

Karl Rove

I mean he has a K for Carl, he's a fucking communist.

3/26/2007 10:09:01 AM

^^haha yeah really...we were trying to stay out of it until the japs bombed us, from what i was told in highschool

3/26/2007 10:30:46 AM

that guy that works at Fashionable Male. he's an asshole.

3/26/2007 10:33:52 AM

John Calhoun: War Hawk, Anti-Freedom, & generally Anti-American

3/26/2007 10:40:38 AM

Man, if I were a libertarian I would so be jacking it right now.

3/26/2007 10:41:57 AM

this guy?





well... okay, maybe not "worst in history" ... but i think at least "worst ncsu candidate in March '07"

3/26/2007 11:24:02 AM

BUSH Sr. for not aborting Bush Jr before birth.

[Edited on March 26, 2007 at 11:31 AM. Reason : fda]

3/26/2007 11:31:02 AM

Picking John Brown seems pretty dubious to me.

3/26/2007 11:47:01 AM

Holy shit this guy is hilarious
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_North

Quote :

"North's economic views are somewhat libertarian, but socially, he as an advocate of theonomic rule ("the rule of God's law") and proposes a strict legal system based on Biblical laws, which might execute people for violations of those laws (such as sodomy, adultery, witchcraft) that are not capital offenses under current U.S. laws. North claims such measures are in line with libertarian social principles because, as in Ancient Israel, the church/community would execute people not the state"

3/26/2007 12:53:55 PM

Quote :

"Then there are the usual suspects: Woodrow Wilson"

I always felt that Wilson was a fine president, he was just often overlooked in history because he was a rabid white supremacist.

3/26/2007 12:59:35 PM

Brad, I'm going to tell you now what I told you last time you started railing on my boy Alexander Hamilton:

Quote :

"Eat a dick and read a book"

And, since you decided to drag my other hero, John Brown, into matters, I'll make an addition:

Quote :

"You spend much of your life idolizing a chick who was born with a penis"

You go after John and Alexander, I go after Jamie Lee Curtis. That's right. I went there.

3/26/2007 1:11:30 PM

First guy to come to mind was Aaron Burr, but given that he shot and killed Alexander Hamilton, this guy may hold him up as a Hero of the Revolution.

3/26/2007 1:41:37 PM

general William Tecumseh Sherman.

[Edited on March 26, 2007 at 1:44 PM. Reason : Andrew Jackson's up there too imo.]

3/26/2007 1:44:00 PM

Quote :

"general William Tecumseh Sherman."

Julius and Ethel Rosenberg

Tom Hayden

Norma L. McCorvey

Mary Hunt

3/26/2007 2:20:40 PM

Anyone in the Grant administration.

3/26/2007 3:57:50 PM

what do yall think of eisenhower?...truman did not support the british idea of putting a shah in iran...eisenhower did though- so they put in a dictator- and pretty much sewed the seeds of hate, all culminating in february 1st, 1979

3/26/2007 4:07:11 PM

Taft. That fat-ass.

But really, is this supposed to be a serious thread? Interesting question, but that "article" is a piece of crap.

3/26/2007 4:31:26 PM

fuck eisenhower

he led a charge against US citizens and veterans in front of the Capital building

3/26/2007 4:36:12 PM

^ You mean he followed orders? Blame Calvin Coolidge, not Eisenhower (or Patton or MacArthur, since they also broke up the Bonus Army). Jeez


And the original article is the funniest thing I've read in weeks. Thanks EarthDogg A++++

3/26/2007 4:51:03 PM

the fucking war criminal...

KISSINGER

3/26/2007 4:52:52 PM

^^ he followed orders, sure

but as far as I know you don't have to follow orders if you're breaking the law

I'd think leading a charge against your fellow citizens is pushing the bounds of constitutionality

they were all responsible

(I was responding to the fact that he mentioned Eisenhower, otherwise I had nothing to say)

[Edited on March 26, 2007 at 5:26 PM. Reason : ...]

3/26/2007 5:26:10 PM

Not sure about worst, but certainly worthy of a nomination.



Edwin Stanton

Mainly for his disregard for habeas corpus after the Civil War, initiation of the Johnson impeachment, witchunting his own commanders, and generally behaving like an ass. Also some accounts suggest he was attempting to succeed Lincoln.

3/26/2007 5:39:07 PM

^Seward was pretty awful for habeas corpus, too.


I'm still thinking...

But can I nominate Taylor-Fillmore-Pierce-Buchanan collectively?

3/26/2007 6:00:51 PM

andrew jackson

3/26/2007 6:02:17 PM

Going for good at being bad, rather than the bad at being good?

3/26/2007 6:04:56 PM

FDR sucks balls still though

3/26/2007 6:07:24 PM

The Rev. Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church

He's the "god hates fags" guy who pickets the funerals of US soldiers

[Edited on March 26, 2007 at 6:10 PM. Reason : .]

3/26/2007 6:10:41 PM

judging by the original column and its sentiment

i change my vote to post-1966 mickey mouse

[Edited on March 26, 2007 at 6:15 PM. Reason : <--]

3/26/2007 6:11:15 PM

My vote is for barbie

3/26/2007 6:50:47 PM

Carson Daly.

3/26/2007 7:05:05 PM

oliver wendell holmes

3/26/2007 7:19:26 PM

I nominate myself. Anyone care to challenge me?

3/26/2007 8:47:31 PM

^^^LOl

3/26/2007 8:56:35 PM

Okay..Currently I would add these to the list...

Woodrow Wilson: Puppet of Big Banking. Allowed the Federal Reserve to be created.

Richard Nixon: Watergate coverup and worse..unhitching the dollar from gold.

Timothy Leary: Drug guru ...One of the founders of the "Drugs are Cool" movement. Responsible for turning on the influentials during the 60s. Although without his effect, rock music would've been more boring.

3/26/2007 9:30:52 PM

^ I dunno... I like having a Federal Reserve... Then again, the FDIC would somewhat easily solve most of the problems with less interference.

3/26/2007 9:54:02 PM

Tough choice, but I'm gonna have to go with Susan B. Anthony

3/27/2007 2:35:26 AM

John Dewey
Margaret Sanger
Abraham Lincoln
Any Supreme Court in the 20th Century

3/27/2007 4:19:52 AM

^ John Dewey? Is it really his fault that everyone misunderstood his philosophy and turned his ideals inside out and blamed him for the failure?

3/27/2007 8:09:30 AM

no, its because of that damned decimal system

3/27/2007 2:53:13 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melvil_Dewey <- Melvil Dewey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dewey <- John Dewey

John Dewey is largely regarded as a Socialist due to the way in which his philosophy on education was misinterpreted and implemented in the U.S... despite the fact that he vigorously defended the philosophy and actually fought against the way it was implemented late into his life.

3/27/2007 2:55:48 PM

I'll also nominate John Wilkes Booth. I believe reconstruction would have been far less painful for all parties had Lincoln remained in office. Jefferson Davis himself said the intimations that he was involved in the plot were crazy because as much as he disliked Lincoln, he far preferred him to Johnson and Congress. IMO reconstruction, not the war itself, was the reason bitter sectionalism and difficult circumstances continued many decades.

3/27/2007 3:23:28 PM

i like how so many think the man who preserved the union is one of the worst Americans

3/27/2007 3:35:58 PM

^^ Thanks.

I wanted to say that but didn't feel like starting a dumbass battle of rhetoric with the Lincoln haters.

3/27/2007 3:43:06 PM

There aren't a lot of people who were involved in any stage of the Civil war, on either side, who didn't do a good deal of damage to our nation...

Several would be in my top 10.

3/27/2007 3:45:47 PM

Quote :

"i like how so many think the man who preserved the union is one of the worst Americans"

A union held together by force and blood is no union at all.

Lincoln's hypocrisy cost hundreds of thousands of lives.

Quote :

"....and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

Unless those people are from the South, in which case those rights don't apply.

One side pleaded for peace, the other refused it and demanded war for their crime of desiring self-government.

So yes, Lincoln was a centralizing, anti-constitutional, liberty-hating tyrant who has more blood on his hands than any American in history.

[Edited on March 27, 2007 at 6:20 PM. Reason : a]

3/27/2007 6:19:17 PM

Like when they fired on Union forces first?

And god forbid lincoln actually defend the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.

[Edited on March 27, 2007 at 6:25 PM. Reason : .]

3/27/2007 6:23:55 PM

Herbert Hoover

most racist president ever

But makes a good vacuum

3/27/2007 6:30:37 PM