Can any of you tell me what the DC real estate market is looking like right now? There's a good chance I'll be working over in Crystal City while going to school at GW. Any advice on where I can find a condo? Suburbs and neighborhoods to look into (preferably on the blue line)? Rather concerned since one of my coworkers told me you can't buy a decent house for under half a million within 60 miles of the city.

Hopefully it won't be too bad; I'd prefer not have to sell my condo here in the midwest and move into a dorm...

4/6/2007 1:24:04 AM

Quote :

"Rather concerned since one of my coworkers told me you can't buy a decent house for under half a million within 60 miles of the city. "

i dont live in DC, but i do live in baltimore....and i hear this all the time. a lot of people are buying in baltimore and communiting to DC since its so expensive down there.

4/6/2007 8:34:42 AM

seriously

live in maryland and commute down

or live in nova and commute up

dumfries/dale city/woodbridge/manassas might not be too bad of an option if you can stand a lil bit of a drive before you get to the metro station.

rockville, md. isn't bad...alexandria might not be too bad, nor will chantilly or fairfax, and those might be closer... also check falls church and annandale.

stay away from arlington, shirlington, anacostia, pg county/bowie, and most parts of howard county.


but yea, you're gonna pay out the ass unless you luck out. it's expensive man, no way around it.

4/6/2007 12:17:56 PM

I heard Arlington was getting a bit rough, but has it really gotten that bad? One would think that its proximity to NW DC would keep it relatively affluent.

4/6/2007 3:23:24 PM

Arlington has its good parts and bad parts. Clarendon, Ballston, and Virginia Square, Rosslyn are all really nice. I work in Ballston. I think it's pretty safe to say that anywhere near the metro stops in Arlington are very nice. Many new condos and many young professionals living there, great place to live but can get expensive. On a good note they built too many condos in Arlington(esp. Ballston) so they have kept up, if not exceeded, market demand.

There are a lot of South Americans in Arlington *some* are in gangs like MS-13 etc.. so the crime figures are bloated but you won't have to worry about that if you stay in the nice areas.

I would recommend you stay in Arlington, it's closer to where you need to be than Bethesda/Rockville at points NW. And it's offers a more 'city like' atmosphere if you're into that.

Quote :

"One would think that its proximity to NW DC would keep it relatively affluent."

More like it's proximity to McLean.

Quote :

"and most parts of howard county. "

stress 'most parts'. Howard county has some fantastic places to live like Ellicott City/ Columbia but that is definitely too far away anyway.

Quote :

"stay away from arlington,"

You just lost ALL credibility

[Edited on April 6, 2007 at 4:16 PM. Reason : .]

4/6/2007 4:06:14 PM

I'll keep those areas in mind. I am leaning more towards Nova right now since work and school are more towards that direction. Thanks for the advice.

4/7/2007 4:34:10 AM

If I was single and worked in NOVA or DC I would definitely stay in Arlington, probably the Clarendon Neighborhood. But now I am looking for a house, so Arlington is out of the question for me--just too old, ugly, and small for 600K+. But if your looking for a condo, nightlife, etc... It's the place to be. Many many new condos/ apartments to rent.

4/7/2007 1:39:43 PM

My stepsis possibly has a 1BR condo for rent in Rockville, MD. It's on the Metro. PM if interested.

4/7/2007 5:28:23 PM

Most of Arlington is pretty nice (particularly anywhere near a metro stop). I can't believe you included it in the category with PG County and Anacostia. It does cost a bit more though.

4/8/2007 6:12:58 AM

I live in Alexandria, and from some casual research, it looks like a studio condo can be had for the mid $300's, 1 bedrooms start in the high $300's. That's why I've decided to rent for a while.

Related tangent:
A guy I know bought a 1 bedroom English basement for $500K last year. It's like 450 square feet with one tiny window that's half underground, and now he can't afford the payments. I hate that kid.

4/8/2007 6:42:35 PM

Quote :

"Most of Arlington is pretty nice (particularly anywhere near a metro stop). I can't believe you included it in the category with PG County and Anacostia."

for clarification purposes, i meant to stay away from arlington because it's so damn expensive

but my bad for insinuating that it's on part with pg county or anacostia

4/10/2007 4:31:20 PM

Word. I live near Chantilly, but don't commute all the way to DC. Obviously move south if you are looking to get on the blue line. Crystal City isn't a bad area, and is more affordable and accessible than some other parts of Arlington if you decide to stay close.

CCSP FTW

[Edited on April 10, 2007 at 4:57 PM. Reason : .]

4/10/2007 4:56:57 PM

Really? I thought the housing in Crystal City was even more exorbant in cost than Arlington.

4/11/2007 10:37:09 AM

*some* other parts of Arlington (Crystal City is in Arlington)

4/11/2007 7:51:27 PM

Oops, my bad. Still trying to get a better grasp of the geography.

4/12/2007 11:06:32 AM

i live in arlington and work in DC... i can tell you, you won't find a condo in all of arlington for under $300k. i live near pentagon city and i love it, NoVA taxes are less and you still have the city feel, i mean i'm <1 mile from the pentagon and arlington cemetary and in the back yard of the air force memorial. it's a perfect distance because i can bike to work along the river and walk home in case of an emergency.

i can vouch for everything clalias said, clarendon/ballston/rosslyn are all nice, the condo market has kept up with the market and you can probably find a decent condo but may have a hard time later on selling, though they keep building new office bldgs in rosslyn so it may continue upward... potomac yard is also on the upswing with lots of condos just south of crystal city.

if you are working in crystal city i really wouldn't look at MD or DC, high prices and high taxes and longer commute time, i'd seriously consider every option in nova first.

baltimore is the ghetto no matter what anyone says... and the commute alone will kill you.

i have to say if you are looking to buy a home.... uh, good luck.

everyone i know that owns in/around DC is married and has two incomes.

4/12/2007 10:22:21 PM

^ Yeah, I had no intention of buying a house. I didn't plan on it because I wouldn't have the time to maintain a yard, but the rumors of housing costs in the region killed that. I ran some quick numbers, and I should be able to handle the low end of the $300k market (though I'll need to go roommate hunting).

Forgot about how all that new construction is going to impact the local market if I try to sell in a few years. I'll have to give that some thought.

Don't worry, I had no intention of living in Baltimore. I've lived there before, and I'm not a big fan of the city.

4/13/2007 3:13:50 PM

Quote :

"baltimore is the ghetto no matter what anyone says... and the commute alone will kill you."

you'd be surprised how things have turned around recently. there are some real nice areas in baltimore now and a lot of developers are putting a lot of money into it. i think its hard to call all of baltimore the ghetto with a straight face and then turn around and live in DC.

but i agree about the commute...i wouldnt want to drive to DC. i do know some people that take the train though, and dont seem to mind it.

but its all a moot point since he has no interest.







[Edited on April 13, 2007 at 3:37 PM. Reason : h]

4/13/2007 3:15:05 PM

Do not live in Columbia Heights

4/13/2007 5:07:55 PM

Columbia Heights is a safe, upper class area with lots of professional white people.

4/13/2007 9:48:25 PM

Quote :

"i think its hard to call all of baltimore the ghetto with a straight face and then turn around and live in DC."

i concur, that's why i don't live in DC either :-P

Baltimore isn't all bad, but it's sure is rough around the edges, at least you are paying less than DC, DC's bad areas are turning around too but only because of increased land value, all the people in low-income areas have to move out because they can't afford the tax... sad but true.

4/16/2007 9:36:40 PM

Anyway you slice it, a commute from Baltimore to Virginia would blow.

4/16/2007 9:39:00 PM

I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting he live in Baltimore and work in DC. That would be idiotic.

4/16/2007 9:51:09 PM

Commuting from Baltimore is really considered as an option. Many people do it-- and don't reply that they are idiots. Baltimore is actually not that far of a commute compared to the hundreds(maybe thousands) that commute from places like WV, Hagerstown, Federick, and the eastern shore. Hell Woodbridge/Dumfries, VA is almost as far away as Baltimore in driving time.

Personally, I have no idea how they can stand it. I hate commuting.

4/17/2007 9:10:10 AM

^^People have suggested it. There is a MARC commuter train that goes from Baltimore to Union Station in DC. I guess that would be the only way it could be tolerable, but Red Guard would still have to metro over to Crystal City (if his job is close to the metro stop).

That is a ton of hassle just to live in Baltimore. Whle it is true some people make ridiculous commutes, I really don't think a slightly bigger/cheaper house would make it worth doing that every day.

4/17/2007 10:12:23 AM

Again, Baltimore wouldn't be realistic. I'd be working in Crystal City (maybe Springfield) and taking night courses at George Washington University. I'm going to need something closer to the area.

4/17/2007 10:16:24 AM

Quote :

"Many people do it-- and don't reply that they are idiots."

Why not? The people who do this ARE idiots. Just because there are a lot of idiots doesn't make it less idiotic. Unless these guys are making baller as fuck salaries (well into 6 figures), there is no way this is worth it in time, money, and opportunity cost.

[Edited on April 17, 2007 at 7:13 PM. Reason : sdfs]

4/17/2007 7:13:12 PM

quick interjection:

have you considered renting? might save some costs and hassles and time every commute if you're only going to be there for a couple years

4/17/2007 7:14:47 PM

^^ Clearly you know nothing about this area... So why do you keep chiming in?

The people who make "baller as fuck" salaries are the only ones that can afford to live in nice areas close-in and have new/large homes--I am speaking of Bethesda, Potomac, McLean, Great Falls.

Some people think of it like this...

1. They can buy a 1950's cape cod /colonial ( 3 bedrooms max) on 0.14 acres in Bethesda for 650-800K.

2. They can buy a new(2000+) McMansion on over a half acre of land for 500K-700K and all they have to do is commute for about an hour.

It's all about personal choice, they're not idiots they have seriously thought about this and that is what makes them happy. They probably consider you an idiot for wanting to live close.

Most of the time spent around here driving is just getting to the beltway, and going around it. Sometimes it takes me 45min to go 19 miles. If all I have to do is drive for 20 more minutes and live in a new house with plenty of land, I consider that a real option.

Sure you spend more (in driving related cost) to live further away, but you can save hundreds of thousands of dollars in the housing cost. All you have to do is tolerate the commute. More power to them.
In my personal opinion, I hate commuting but I'll suffer by not being able to buy a newer/larger house.

[Edited on April 17, 2007 at 7:50 PM. Reason : .]

4/17/2007 7:44:07 PM

And apparently you don't know how to keep track of your own finances.

- An hour extra of driving is equivalent to working an extra hour for no pay. Not having to work this extra, unpaid hour is like taking vacation -- its worth the same as your regular salary. You are automatically losing approximately 10%/making 10% less by driving an hour farther.
- Then you have the opportunity cost of not being able to use that time for leisure. Some people like to use this time to watch their kids grow up. Some idiots like to use this time to watch the back of someone's bumper. What value do you want to impute, here? $10,000/yr seems cheap to me. (Not even mentioning the value of less stress, more sleep)
- The actual cost of driving farther.

10% of any decent salary + opportunity cost + actual cost of driving farther EASILY makes up a 100+ thousand difference in housing cost, especially over 30 years.

If you want a McMansion, don't work in DC or get a higher paying job. Anything else is simply idiotic.

[Edited on April 17, 2007 at 8:28 PM. Reason : sdf]

4/17/2007 8:27:01 PM

And apparently you're an idiot. Pot, meet kettle.

Quote :

"An hour extra of driving is equivalent to working an extra hour for no pay. Not having to work this extra, unpaid hour is like taking vacation -- its worth the same as your regular salary. You are automatically losing approximately 10%/making 10% less by driving an hour farther."

Do you get paid by the hour? You're assuming that the extra time could be spent working. A lot of the people making the commute are white collar workers--that means no overtime compensation. Even if they do get paid by the hour you are assuming their employer would let them work overtime.

Don't even bother talking about opportunity cost, unless you want to define every ones utility function. Who the hell are you to say how they should be spending their time/money? If they're living within their means they can live wherever-the-fuck they want.

Quote :

"If you want a McMansion, don't work in DC or get a higher paying job. Anything else is simply idiotic."

Or you could just work in DC and commute to work. But hey, whatever works for you.

The whole point is someone can call you an idiot for buying an expensive TV, car, etc... It's all a matter of personal opinion.

Frankly, I'm glad people want to commute to work. It makes my housing close-in more affordable, as it were.
------------------------




[Edited on April 17, 2007 at 9:23 PM. Reason : e]

4/17/2007 9:19:37 PM

Quote :

"And apparently you're an idiot. Pot, meet kettle."

Apparently, I've hit close to home since you are getting so defensive. You admit that I'm not even talking about your case, yet you are attacking me personally when I haven't attacked you a single time. Maybe you should try growing up a little bit and learn to discuss a topic like an adult.

Quote :

"Do you get paid by the hour? You're assuming that the extra time could be spent working. A lot of the people making the commute are white collar workers--that means no overtime compensation. Even if they do get paid by the hour you are assuming their employer would let them work overtime."

This is irrelevant. The point is that you lower your salary by commuting. Instead of commuting to make your salary less, you could always just change to a lower paying job closer to home. This is how you lose salary -- because you could always find another job with the same pay but less hours (iow, a shorter commute). If you were paid to commute, then you would not take this pay cut and the only cost would be the opportunity cost I mentioned. If you are not paid to commute, you pay both in lost salary and opportunity cost.

Quote :

"Don't even bother talking about opportunity cost, unless you want to define every ones utility function. Who the hell are you to say how they should be spending their time/money?"

Just because you can't conceive how to impute a value to opportunity cost doesn't mean you can't do it. If you stop foaming at the mouth for a second and logically analyze the situation, you can have a very good ball park idea of what people's utility function is.

As a baseline, the value of not working is the same as vacation time. Even if I took so much time off that I became a part time worker, I can calculate how much that time is worth. It's written very clearly on my pay check. Alternatively, you can look at the extra costs you incur by not being at home. For example, child care or day care. Alternatively, you can look at what you spend on leisure currently. Alternatively, you can simply look at what you gain and impute a personal value on that. No matter what way you choose, the figure is around what your hourly rate would be.

If you were more educated on the topic, you would know that there are volumes of information about how to calculate the value of leisure, as it's an area of serious research.

The reason people are idiots for commuting a long way to a job that doesn't pay well in to six figures is because they are like you: they throw up their hands and pretend they can't calculate how much time with their family/less stress/more sleep/more leisure/etc. is worth.

Quote :

"Or you could just work in DC and commute to work. But hey, whatever works for you."

You don't read well. I never said they couldn't. I said they were stupid for doing so. It's much better to look for a higher paying job or simply not work in DC.

Quote :

"The whole point is someone can call you an idiot for buying an expensive TV, car, etc... It's all a matter of personal opinion. "

We're not talking about this kind of comparison -- how people value one form of leisure over another. We're talking about one that you can very rationally and carefully analyze -- whether leisure is worth more than working unpaid, extra hours.

[Edited on April 17, 2007 at 10:36 PM. Reason : sdf]

4/17/2007 10:35:36 PM

Thanks for the laugh.

Quote :

"The reason people are idiots for commuting a long way to a job that doesn't pay well in to six figures is because they are like you: they throw up their hands and pretend they can't calculate how much time with their family/less stress/more sleep/more leisure/etc. is worth."

I did, that's why I choose to live close. I drive 20 min on average to work(door-to-door). That's about as low as it gets. But that's my opinion.




[Edited on April 17, 2007 at 11:39 PM. Reason : .]

4/17/2007 11:20:35 PM

and this is why i'm moving to denver

4/18/2007 1:02:41 AM

Quote :

"have you considered renting? might save some costs and hassles and time every commute if you're only going to be there for a couple years"

Well, I'm actually hoping to stay in the area for more than a couple of years. GWU is going to be a bit of a career shift for me, and for what I do, DC is an excellent area to do it.

The reason I'm seriously considering relocation at this point is that as a homeowner, my employer is providing me with an insane relocation package that makes purchasing a condo in DC a very real option. In addition to the equity I have in my current home, I get a substantial bonus to apply toward the down payment on a new home, three years worth of relocation "bonus" to adjust for the jump in cost of living, assistance in selling my current home with option to sell it to my employer if I can't move it on the market, all closing costs for selling my property as well as purchasing a new home, moving expenses, etc.

My current employer may be a bit stingy in terms of pay, but I can't fault them for their benefits.

Of course, if this falls through, then I'll probably end up renting or buying further out in Virginia, but I figure I'd start to get a feel for the market there at this point.

As long as I have good, easy access to the Metro, I would be satisfied. The last time I lived in DC (during an internship), I saw firsthand how bad their highways are, and with my fond memories of subways and buses in Seoul, I'd rather just take public transport if possible.

[Edited on April 18, 2007 at 3:17 AM. Reason : .]

4/18/2007 3:16:06 AM

If you don't mind living in an area that might not be "nice", but is more affordable and turning around, you could look at some of the real estate up North Capitol (stay on the west side of North Capitol). That would be an easy commute to Crystal City via the Green Line.

4/18/2007 6:44:44 AM

^The green line doesn't go to Crystal City. It's a blue/ yellow station.

4/20/2007 11:10:56 AM

Doesn't the yellow line run parallel with the green for a while though?

4/20/2007 1:06:11 PM

yes but not to crystal city

4/20/2007 5:00:24 PM

Oops I meant the yellow. It is more direct since you don't go through 10 million stops in downtown.

4/21/2007 8:54:23 AM

Well, now that I actually have a job offer in hand and a transfer date almost set, I guess its time to start looking seriously.

5/25/2007 4:25:03 PM

Good idea, Washington DC just got ranked the 5th highest overpriced real estate market by Forbes. http://www.forbes.com/2007/05/03/market-housing-overpriced-forbeslife-cx_mw_0504overpricedmost_slide_6.html?thisSpeed=15000 Better hurry up and buy before prices drop!

5/26/2007 3:50:53 PM

Looks like the condo market in northern Virginia has bottomed out, though I don't know if there will be much appreciation over the next several years either.

Does anyone know much about the area around Ballston metro and Rosslyn metro? When I visited the neighborhoods, both seemed pretty interesting in their own ways, but I didn't have too much time to explore.

6/26/2007 4:01:20 PM

I live in the Ballston - Va. square area, and my wife & I love it. There are a lot of restaurants and bars within walking distance, and being metro accessible is nice.

Condo prices are definitely coming down, and if you buy a new place (there is a ton of new construction), developers are throwing in a bunch of incentives.

A lot of places took contracts back in '05, but now that they are ready for delivery, buyers no longer can or are willing to take out a loan for so much. A real estate agent told me that one of the pricier buildings b/w Va. Square and Clarendon actually gave up on being a condo and is now going to be an extended stay hotel.

7/2/2007 8:26:45 AM

As a region the market has pretty much bottomed out, but I wouldn't expect to see much appreciation in the next year or two. Locally housing prices will vary of course. Areas that are easily metro-accessible will be a bit more bubble proof, as that housing stock is more limited and in demand.

7/2/2007 9:30:30 AM