First one is tonight on MSNBC at 7. The Democratic candidates are at South Carolina State University.

Joe Biden, Delaware senator and 1988 presidential candidate
Hillary Clinton, New York senator and former first lady
Chris Dodd, Connecticut senator
John Edwards, former North Carolina senator, 2004 presidential candidate, and 2004 vice-presidential nominee
Mike Gravel, former Alaska senator and 1972 (!) vice-presidential candidate
Dennis Kucinich, Ohio representative and 2004 presidential candidate
Barack Obama, Illinois senator
Bill Richardson, New Mexico governor

I'm going to bet $20 in Vegas that Biden offends some minority group with an off-the-cuff statement, Hillary mentions her husband at least 40 times, Dodd will be unmemorable by tomorrow, Edwards will exaggerate his southern accent, Gravel will play the white Al Sharpton, Kucinich will be blah, Obama will be pronounced the winner by the media, and Richardson will just talk and ramble on a whole bunch.

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 9:50 AM. Reason : .]

4/26/2007 9:45:16 AM

Just seeing Dennis Kucinich makes me laugh, so it may be worth it for that.

4/26/2007 12:27:10 PM

Quote :

"In 24 hours John will speak out to the national media gathered to cover the presidential debate and call on President Bush to fire Karl Rove and Alberto Gonzales. That means we have 24 hours to gather enough support to ensure that when John steps forward, he's not stepping forward alone. http://www.johnedwards.com/fire-rove"

I wonder how many he will have by 7.

I'm also trying to figure out how I'll catch the debate without cable.

4/26/2007 2:16:30 PM

It's streaming live on MSNBC.

4/26/2007 3:05:09 PM

I wonder if they will actually talk about what they would do as president, not about how much GWB sucks.

4/26/2007 3:10:56 PM

they better, considering they're not running against GWB in 2008

4/26/2007 3:15:20 PM

Quote :

"I wonder if they will actually talk about what they would do as president, not about how much GWB sucks."

My guess on tonight's menu of events that the candidates will talk about:

War, Bush sucks, plans for Presidency, war, Bush sucks, economy, any of them: "People in America are poor!" war, Bush sucks, Kucinich: "Impeach the bastard!", civil rights, Hillary: "I'm the blackest candidate in this race!", war, Bush sucks, health care, Edwards: "Quality health care costs too much, more ambulance chasing will fix that.", war, Bush sucks, closing speeches.

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 3:22 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2007 3:19:10 PM

^^^ Probably don't have to. They can pretty much ride the anti-Bush wave all the way through 2008, especially with the disarray the Republican Party is in right now. No reason to propose real substantive plans less have them hurled back at them in the fall of 2008.

4/26/2007 3:29:47 PM

Quote :

"They can pretty much ride the anti-Bush wave all the way through 2008"

What about when the republican frontrunner in 08, whoever that may be, uses some type of radical argument like "I'm not Bush" and then the past 2 years of Bush bashing becomes pretty useless?

4/26/2007 3:32:30 PM

^^^

it's what I'm expecting...


they will talk about how bad iraq is, even though they voted for it

they will play class warfare to get the lower and middle class against the rich, even though most of them are very wealthy

tell you that it is't your fault you "can't afford" your healthcare as you watch them on your new plasma HDTV on digital cable

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 3:34 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2007 3:33:46 PM

Is that seriously gonna be the republicans excuse for everything for the next few years? 'we're in disarray'

c'mon it's bullshit and everyone knows it. they should just man up and say, 'we failed the american people and we're going to pay the price for it until the democrats screw up or we come out with better ideas.'

what's the definition of not being in disarray anyway? everyone having the same opinion and towing the party line and pushing stuff through for the president? oh, see how well that worked out.

if the republican party would quit worrying about legislating morals and focus on domestic issues (controlling spending, inflation, jobs etc.) then they might actually become a respectable party again.

4/26/2007 3:36:21 PM

Quote :

"What about when the republican frontrunner in 08, whoever that may be, uses some type of radical argument like "I'm not Bush" and then the past 2 years of Bush bashing becomes pretty useless?"

Guilt by Association. That, and given how Congress and the Party were pretty much in lockstep with him for the first six years, they probably won't be able to completely clean off the stain by 2008.

4/26/2007 3:36:49 PM

^^

both parties are in disarray b/c both parties don't stand for what most americans want.

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 3:37 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2007 3:37:42 PM

^^How will they not be able to "clean off the stain"? Bush is not going to be President beginning in January 09...why are the Dems so worried about Bush? They're not running against Bush! THey need to worry about Rudy or whoever else might actually be the candidate that Hilaredwarsobama will run against

4/26/2007 3:47:22 PM

Quote :

"why are the Dems so worried about Bush? They're not running against Bush!"

No, you got it wrong. The Democrats love the fact that Bush screwed up so badly because they can milk his administration's messy trail for votes in 2008. It is to their advantage to keep it fresh in people's minds how sloppy this administration has been. Use this to stoke disgruntlement with the Republican Party. Then when a Republican candidate finally emerges, they just have to say he's from "Bush's party" to complete the link and place the candidate at a disadvantage.

"Clean out the White House!" or a "Fresh start for the Presidency!"

4/26/2007 3:56:18 PM

Quote :

"when a Republican candidate finally emerges, they just have to say he's from "Bush's party" to complete the link and place the candidate at a disadvantage."

I guess some complete idiots would actually buy into that "logic"...course maybe the Republicans will be equally moronic and claim that Obama is in the KKK since he's from "Robert Byrd's party"

4/26/2007 4:01:14 PM

Quote :

"What about when the republican frontrunner in 08, whoever that may be, uses some type of radical argument like "I'm not Bush" and then the past 2 years of Bush bashing becomes pretty useless?"

Didn't work so well for Gore in 2000 with Clinton.

4/26/2007 4:08:47 PM

Quote :

"Hillary mentions her husband at least 40 times"

i really doubt this will happen. she should know that she can't win resting on clinton's laurels for the next 18 months.

4/26/2007 4:11:09 PM

How many times will she have to mention Monica's Name.

4/26/2007 4:13:57 PM

^^^Gore was just too boring...W had more character...and it almost did work for Gore...he didnt exactly lose by a lot

4/26/2007 4:15:45 PM

Quote :

" They can pretty much ride the anti-Bush wave all the way through 2008"

Here is just a copy and paste of Edwards issues page. Obviously there’s more to it than can fit on one page as you can see a lot of “read more” links. But I think it shows that the dems are about more than Bush is Bad.

Quote :

" Restoring America's Moral Leadership in the World America's leadership role in the world has grown out of our compassion and moral strength, as well as our unparalleled economic and military strength. We can be proud of our long history of using our strength to fight for the freedom of others, but our standing in the world has been badly tarnished. America can once again be looked up to and respected around the world. The first step is by immediately withdrawing 40,000-50,000 troops from Iraq, with the complete withdrawal of all combat troops from Iraq within 12-18 months -- allowing the Iraqis to assume greater responsibility for rebuilding their own country. It also means working to restore our legitimacy by leading on the great challenges before us like the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, the genocide in Darfur, extreme poverty, and living up to our ideals in the fight against terrorism. Guaranteeing Affordable, Quality Health Care for Every American The 47 million uninsured Americans often do not get the care they need. Each year, about 18,000 die as a result. Despite the problems of the uninsured and unnecessarily low quality care, our health care system is the most expensive in the world and insurance premiums have grown faster than wages for almost 50 years. John Edwards believes we need to reform our health care system to provide truly universal coverage - not mere access to insurance - and get better care at lower cost. Read More » Eliminating Poverty Every day, 37 million Americans wake in poverty. Our response to that reality says everything about the character of America. John Edwards has called for a national goal of eliminating poverty within 30 years, with policies rooted in the core American values of opportunity for everyone and responsibility from everyone. We can reach that goal by creating and rewarding work, strengthening families, helping workers save and get ahead, transforming our schools, expanding access to college, breaking up areas of concentrated poverty, reaching overlooked rural areas, and expecting people to help themselves by working whenever they are able. Read More » Strengthening America's Middle Class The backbone of America is its middle class. But middle class families are struggling. Wages have fallen in recent years even as the economy has grown. At the same time, the costs of necessities like health care, child care, and education have grown. President Bush's tax policies have increased the share of the tax burden borne by middle-class workers. Our economic policies must reward work, help families save for the future, and fight the rising costs of middle-class life. Leading the Fight against Global Warming and Our Addiction to Foreign Oil Our nation's dependence on oil and other fossil fuels is contributing to global warming and jeopardizing our national security. To protect our future, John Edwards believes that Americans must be patriotic about something other than the war. We must act now by investing in clean, renewable energies like wind, solar, and biofuels to create a new energy economy, developing a new generation of efficient cars and trucks, and putting new energy-saving technologies to work in buildings, transportation, and industry. Read More » "

I don't think the democrats are just a one trick pony with the Bush is Bad thing... even though it does seem to resonate really well right now. I'm sure they'll use it some tonight, but they have some issues to fall back on if the bush thing stops working.

I think his ideas on helping people work their way our of poverty are good. I think that treating health issues early can be less expensive than sending people to the ER down the road. And that with the other ideas and system reworkings that Edwards goals are achievable ones.

Quote :

"Edwards suggested creating 1 million temporary jobs over five years. The jobs would be reserved for individuals who cannot find other work after six months of looking, pay the minimum wage, and last up to 12 months. In return, workers must show up and work hard, stay off drugs, do not commit any crimes, and pay child support. Studies have shown that these programs are successful moving people into permanent jobs. Jobs would be chosen carefully with local business and labor leaders to meet local needs without displacing existing workers. "

Quote :

"Create Opportunity in Rural America. Nearly 90 percent of America's poorest counties are rural, and many have been hit hard by the struggles of the U.S. manufacturing and textile industries. Edwards believes in investing more in rural community colleges to strengthen "mid-skilled" industries and linking training to actual business needs. He also supports rural small business centers to build rural economies around homegrown businesses."

Quote :

"STRENGTHENING EDUCATION Expand College Opportunity: In Greene County, North Carolina, Edwards helped launch a College for Everyone program that is helping students attend college this fall. He has proposed a similar national program where students who agree to work part-time during their first year at a public college would get their tuition paid. Research has shown that the first year of college is the most difficult one, where additional student aid can make the greatest difference. [Dynarski, 1999; Census, 2005] Create Second-Chance Schools for High School Dropouts: As many as one-third of all students drop out of school, and the rates are even worse for poor and minority students. Almost a third of dropouts between the ages of 25 and 34 live in poverty. Large majorities of recent dropouts regret their decision and now believe that a high school degree is the key to good jobs. Edwards believes that we should create second-chance schools, including some in evenings and at community colleges, to help former dropouts get back on track. [Civic Enterprises, 2006; Manhattan Institute, 2006; Urban Institute, 2001] Strengthen Public Schools: Edwards suggested expanding access to preschool programs such as Head Start and North Carolina's Smart Start, investing more in teacher pay and training to attract good teachers where we need them most, and strengthening high schools with smaller schools and a more challenging curriculum. "

4/26/2007 4:23:16 PM

so I start to read the thing about Edwards campaign, thinking, OK, I will give him a chance....

then I read this...

Quote :

"Restoring America's Moral Leadership in the World"

and I realized that this was coming from John Edwards, so I couldn't take it seriously anymore.

4/26/2007 4:29:41 PM

I don't take much that Edwards says seriously. I just hope that if he somehow wins he'll make a better president than senator.

4/26/2007 5:09:08 PM

he spent much of his time as a senator campaigning for VP And Pres...if he was president what would he do? probably spend his time campaigning for the next biggest position, like emperor of earth?

4/26/2007 5:13:26 PM

Quote :

"like emperor of earth"

I want to see someone with Edward's accent be Emperor of the Earth.

I really do.

4/26/2007 5:19:40 PM

He has the best hair of all the candidates ON EARTH

4/26/2007 5:23:21 PM

I think Guiliani's comments to Politico will be one of the first questions.

4/26/2007 5:25:17 PM

Spending senate time campaigning, that’s so unforgivable that I can't imagine anyone else doing it... or transferring 10 mil from their senate fund to their pres campaign.

4/26/2007 5:26:13 PM

^do you spend half your time at your job trying to get a new job

most people would get fired for that shit

4/26/2007 5:28:26 PM

Quote :

" ^do you spend half your time at your job trying to get a new job most people would get fired for that shit"

Campaigns for office aren’t sure fire jobs… so I imagine a lot of politicians have some kind of work while running for office. And it’s not like we really want people who haven’t had political experience before running for office so I’d be willing to be a lot of people run for a higher office while in another.

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 5:59 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2007 5:58:43 PM

A better question...

Do the types of people who end up advancing into executive management spend half their time at their jobs trying to get a new job?

Answer: Mostly.

Also...how long has Olbermann been totally gray? This looks like it happened overnight...

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 6:55 PM. Reason : ...]

4/26/2007 6:51:34 PM

props to msnbc for awesome audio so far....

4/26/2007 7:01:54 PM

$10 on Gravel winning with Kucinich a close second.

Ooh, a lightning round!

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 7:04 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2007 7:02:36 PM

I wish they'd just let real marketers get a hold of this.

No long introductions. No bullshit.

"LADEEEEEEEZ AND GEEEENTLEMEN! ARE YOU READY TO RUUUUUUMBLE????"

4/26/2007 7:04:01 PM

Quote :

"I wish they'd just let real marketers get a hold of this. No long introductions. No bullshit. "LADEEEEEEEZ AND GEEEENTLEMEN! ARE YOU READY TO RUUUUUUMBLE????""

If I ever meet a Comedy Central producer, I have a great idea for a political satire show. It will be all the candidates lampooned as pro wrestlers. For Hillary, I'll guess she'd have to be the b**** manager. If you had to pick a sport to represent politics, what's better than pro wrestling?

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 7:06 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2007 7:05:29 PM

i've got msnbc.com up now

4/26/2007 7:08:53 PM

4/26/2007 7:14:07 PM

gravel is pissed

4/26/2007 7:15:22 PM

New Heroes:

Fmr. Sen. Gravel

4/26/2007 7:16:30 PM

Quote :

" I wonder if they will actually talk about what they would do as president, not about how much GWB sucks."

guess not...

4/26/2007 7:16:38 PM

^ Must not be watching the same debate...

4/26/2007 7:17:41 PM

My ideal ticket for the next election before this debate. I’ll see if it changes by the end.

4/26/2007 7:18:05 PM

One thing Williams didn't mention about Gravel was he was the senator that put the Pentagon Papers into the Public Record.

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 7:18 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2007 7:18:36 PM

Hedge funds?

That was a question from left field I don't think any of them were expecting.

4/26/2007 7:22:46 PM

doesn't seem like any of them have an answer for the hedge fund question

4/26/2007 7:24:10 PM

THIS GUY IS GREAT!!!!

4/26/2007 7:30:02 PM

OMG AHAHHAA

4/26/2007 7:30:48 PM

In the era of YouTube and general political apathy, I think this guy could pull 10%.

No shit.

4/26/2007 7:31:22 PM

I liked Biden's response.

Williams: "Will you assure America that you will be more responsible as a candidate?"

Biden: "Yes."



[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 7:32 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2007 7:31:41 PM

The only thing worse than soldiers dying in vain is more soldiers dying in vain!

Nukes!

4/26/2007 7:32:55 PM