islamic militants: 27
lebanon military: 15

per cnn

PWNT?

5/21/2007 11:12:59 AM

It's good to see Lebanon crack down on the militants and rabble-rousers in the Southern portion of the country.

Now if the Palestinians would do the same thing, maybe there would be some real peace in the region.

5/21/2007 11:15:49 AM

well they seem to be losing so far and they will never have peace if they continue to betray their own people. this only makes things worse and thickens hatred. same with israel and palestinia.

5/21/2007 11:17:37 AM

Israel doesn't have religious factions and militants who launch attacks against other countries without the consent of their government. They can actually honor a cease-fire.

5/21/2007 11:20:49 AM

well officially they don't at least...

but lebanon needs some real help, and the EU, unfortunately, is the best group for the job.... (turkey too probably) but I doubt they will be willing to actually help with anything in any meaningful way...


islam has a long ways to go in maturity...

5/21/2007 12:38:09 PM

Quote :

"Now if the Palestinians Israeli's would do the same thing, maybe there would be some real peace in the region. "

fixed

Quote :

"Israel doesn't have religious factions and militants who launch attacks against other countries without the consent of their government. They can actually honor a cease-fire."

Israel is run by fanatics. All day long you read about causalities inflicted by Israel occupation or attacks. They are the aggressors in the region. No wonder everyone hates them.

[Edited on May 21, 2007 at 2:28 PM. Reason : fda]

5/21/2007 2:26:35 PM

Both sides are aggressors. Israel at least has the organization and discipline to stop fighting when agreements are made. The same can't be said about the Palestinians, who have never stopped launching rockets into Israel.

5/21/2007 2:42:12 PM

SECRETARIAN VIOLENCE != CIVIL WAR

hahahha jk, go israel

5/21/2007 2:54:19 PM

well in all fairness if im fighting my little sister over a piece of pie, i'd be willing to stop fighting once i've already eaten the pie.

5/21/2007 3:06:30 PM

Quote :

"Both sides are aggressors. Israel at least has the organization and discipline to stop fighting when agreements are made. The same can't be said about the Palestinians, who have never stopped launching rockets into Israel."

well, hopefully the militants will get upgraded rockets and continue launching those into Israel. Israel does the same damn thing, but with tanks, jets, and organized military structure. They violate cease-fires the same as the Palestinians. And when it comes time to signing, they refuse to sign a cease-fire until they've taken everything they wanted.

5/21/2007 3:10:19 PM

that, is true. they haven't been all that magnanimous in victory against rabble pretty much....

a strong independent lebonese government/military would go a long ways tho...

5/21/2007 4:11:55 PM

Quote :

"SECRETARIAN VIOLENCE != CIVIL WAR"

True, because SECRETARIAN VIOLENCE is when SECRETARIES fight.

************************************

Quote :

"Israel at least has the organization and discipline to stop fighting when agreements are made."

Of course, like the majority of the American public, you are ignorant about the actions Israel DOES take when cease-fires are agreed upon: they expand illegal settlement, of course, with the US turning a blind eye to it. And all agreements call for settlement freezes, but they have rarely acted on it. Where is outrage over that?

And that's the real hurdle in this.

Israel keeps on expanding its settlements in the West Bank, and in JERUSALEM, to change the demographics of small portions at a time, and then it annexes those portions by building walls and fences, because now they are Jewish areas (and like a few kms around them, under the pretext of security).

It keeps on doing it, and the Palestinians keep on losing land. 1967 is not the last time they lost land. They have been losing it everyday for the past several dacades. And of course, all it would take is one word from whoever the incumbent US leader is, and they would freeze the expansion of settlements (it has happened maybe a couple of times so far in the past few years), but of course, the US presidents are in bed with the Israeli leaders.

Pictures of demolished Palestinian houses (and I am not talking about just the houses of the suicide bombers) with women and children scavenging what they can from the rubble, are published in 100's of Arab papers daily, but when is the last time you saw such a pic in an US paper? Of course, where there is a suicide bombing, you see several pics, with touching stories of those killed, and how they left behind a wife and 2 beautiful children, and a DOG/CAT, but you never hear about the Palestinian casualties, who slip through the cracks of the world.

That region is going to explode one day, and unfortunately, no Jew will be safe at that time. I don't know when this will happen--and my guess is a few to several centuries from now--but it WILL happen.

No one dares speak up against Zionist injustice, but everybody speaks up against Islamic militants. Afterall, who wants to risk being called an "anti-semite", and have their life and career ruined, right?

And oh, do you know why their houses are demolished frequently? Because they are built without permits! Yeah no shit, when you make it nearly impossible for certain people--Arabs--to obtain permits, they are going to build them where and when they can. What do you expect families to do? Live on the streets?

And they also uproot their several decades old citrus and olive trees, the sole source of livelihood for many many families.

5/21/2007 6:24:49 PM

What does your rambling psycho-babble have to do with what I posted? Neither side has clean hands, but at least there is some organization to the Israelis. Unified Palestinian (as well as Lebanese) leadership would go a long way towards a resolution to this conflict. Instead there are multiple violent militias, each setting back peace talks and lashing out at Israel whenever they get the chance.

5/21/2007 7:13:05 PM

Quote :

"It's good to see Lebanon crack down on the militants and rabble-rousers in the Southern portion of the country."

Correct me if im wrong, but isn't Tripoli in the northwest part of Lebanon?

[Edited on May 21, 2007 at 9:05 PM. Reason : west not east]

5/21/2007 9:05:03 PM

Quote :

"What does your rambling psycho-babble have to do with what I posted? Neither side has clean hands, but at least there is some organization to the Israelis. Unified Palestinian (as well as Lebanese) leadership would go a long way towards a resolution to this conflict. Instead there are multiple violent militias, each setting back peace talks and lashing out at Israel whenever they get the chance."

as an outsider, you clearly have no understanding of these matters. Stop while you are ahead, or if you'd rather continue discussing it, get a better understanding of the situation and the people on both sides of the fence. If Palestine was more unified, it would just mean more successful blows against Israel instead of random skirmishes here and there. The problem isn't the governments, the problem is having two general groups of people that hate each other right down to the core and nothing will change that.

5/21/2007 9:46:06 PM

Quote :

"as an outsider, you clearly have no understanding of these matters."

Being an Arab makes you an insider? If anything, it makes you just as biased as a "brainwashed American" like me.

5/22/2007 2:28:03 AM

Quote :

" Israel does the same damn thing, but with tanks, jets..."

All made in the USA

5/22/2007 3:14:13 AM

why is it that you see Palestinians killing Palestinians in the past couple of weeks? On the other hand when Israel has problems within their country, they fight politically? Why such a big difference? Is it cultural? I hear arguments from both sides but Israel has 2 things going for them imo..

1) They don't kill each other
2) They don't intentionally target civilians with suicide bombings <- and don't give me the argument that they target civilians with air attacks and tanks because there are no militants in Israel that walk across the border and blow themselves up in a crowded market..PERIOD

That is enough to make the majority of people outside of the Middle East believe that Palestinians are the ones who are barbaric. And I for one hold that belief as well. As far as Lebanon is concerned….I feel bad for the refugees that are caught in the middle of this. Hopefully they will root out these militants and those civilians can go back to some sort of normal life, if possible

5/22/2007 8:59:21 AM

Quote :

"Being an Arab makes you an insider? If anything, it makes you just as biased as a "brainwashed American" like me. "

I'm not an Arab either. I'm Egyptian. I dislike the Palestinians but I hate Israelis. I'm not biased because I understand the hatred. You on the other hand no nothing about it except for what CNN tells you. Before CNN you didn't even know there was a problem

Quote :

"1) They don't kill each other 2) They don't intentionally target civilians with suicide bombings <- and don't give me the argument that they target civilians with air attacks and tanks because there are no militants in Israel that walk across the border and blow themselves up in a crowded market..PERIOD"

they don't have to. They have tanks and missiles. Why would they resort to more primitive methods of attacks if they have all that? Toss the Palestinians a few missiles and tanks and you'll see less suicide bombings. They only resort to desperate measures because thats all they have. Israel kills far more civilians with their modern tech. then Palestinians do with their primitive bombs.

You think just because they use a modern military they don't target and kill many civilians along the way. Who's brainwashed now?

[Edited on May 22, 2007 at 9:09 AM. Reason : fda]

5/22/2007 9:05:56 AM

What military purpose does suicide bombing achieve if you only target civilians? It does nothing to deter the enemy from attacking you? That's some Virginia Tech shit right there. I hate people so I am going to kill as many civilians as possible. I see a strong corelation between you defending Palestinian suicide bombers and that fucking ? mark guy from Va Tech.

5/22/2007 9:28:38 AM

I'm not defending anyone. Like I said, i don't care about either side. If it were up to me, both sides should just finish each other off so we can have peace in the region. I'm just saying that they use primitive methods of attack because thats all they have. They're desperate. All you hear about here are the random attacks on civilian locations, because they are attacking the Israeli way of life. What you don't hear about are the attacks on military targets. I guess they leave that part out on CNN along with the Israeli attacks on civilians. Have you already forgotten the number of civilian casualties and children that died during Israel's annual raid on Lebanon?

5/22/2007 10:12:17 AM

Quote :

"they use primitive methods of attack because thats all they have"

[Edited on May 22, 2007 at 10:25 AM. Reason : a girl in my hs class told me the exact same thing...she was from lebanon]

5/22/2007 10:25:03 AM

well then, at least we agree that suicide bombing is a primitive military tactic and there is no defending suicide bombers.....I guess then that it's the media's fault for not showing us there true military tactics. The ones where they run around in the street with missle launchers on their backs or the ones where they have 7 years olds walking around with guns. Are those the tactics you are reffering to? That seems to me like just a bunch of dumb mother fuckers who deserved to be picked off. The people who deserve to live are the ones who can't leave the area and are entrenched with these pockets of jihadists. How do you suppose Isreal defends from the missle attacks? Door to door?

5/22/2007 11:48:49 AM

this is all are fault. us and britain are the ones who should be getting the suicide bombers moreso than anyone. you can't really blame israel for accepting gifts they wanted for centuries.

[Edited on May 22, 2007 at 11:54 AM. Reason : rewrote the whole thing we deserve it more]

5/22/2007 11:53:11 AM

Quote :

"this is all are fault"

5/22/2007 12:15:06 PM

Quote :

"well then, at least we agree that suicide bombing is a primitive military tactic and there is no defending suicide bombers.....I guess then that it's the media's fault for not showing us there true military tactics. The ones where they run around in the street with missle launchers on their backs or the ones where they have 7 years olds walking around with guns. Are those the tactics you are reffering to? That seems to me like just a bunch of dumb mother fuckers who deserved to be picked off. The people who deserve to live are the ones who can't leave the area and are entrenched with these pockets of jihadists. How do you suppose Isreal defends from the missle attacks? Door to door?"

LOL

did you just ignore my entire post? What part of my post did you not understand? What they do deserve is to even the odds and give Palestinians tanks and armor. Israel deserves to be wiped off the face of the earth and they can take Palestine with them. That land is useless and cursed.

But since you think its all one sided, poor Israel etc etc....

How is Palestine supposed to defend from missile attacks, attack helicopter attacks, tank division attacks, infantry division attacks?

Israel can get up and leave the same way they implanted themselves pre-WWII. That is if you really want to say

Quote :

"The people who deserve to live are the ones who can't leave the area and are entrenched with these pockets of jihadists"

seriously, you sound more and more ignorant on the issue with each new post.

But i guess you missed the whole point where I said they have no organized military and what they're doing is a perfect example of that. If they had tanks and modern weaponry, they wouldn't need to resort to such tactics. Back someone into a corner with no good means to defend themselves and thats what you get.

[Edited on May 22, 2007 at 12:33 PM. Reason : fda]

5/22/2007 12:32:04 PM

Quote :

"as an outsider, you clearly have no understanding of these matters."

Quote :

"i'm from egypt"

Quote :

"I dislike the Palestinians but I hate Israelis."

Quote :

"Like I said, i don't care about either side."

you are the dumbest fucking sand nigger on the planet
its idiots like you coming to the USA that are going to run this country into the ground

5/22/2007 12:36:30 PM

no, i didn't vote for bush. So i'm actually ok for this country.

and WTF are you talking about? just randomly picking quotes from what i say and some how its supposed to insult me? el oh el.

You know whats going to run ran this country into the ground? its citizens living off fear and blindly following a corrupt psycho path, who they shamefully call their president.

5/22/2007 12:39:40 PM

what does anything i said have to do with george bush?

you are the fucking self contradicting dumb ass who continues to keep spewing shit all over this thread

do us all a favor and log off and bring your retarded ass back to where you belong with the rest of the sand monkeys in egypt

5/22/2007 12:46:00 PM

You never answered my question about how Israel is suppose to defend themselves from random rocket attacks. Wait, maybe this was the answer:Israel deserves to be wiped off the face of the earth and they can take Palestine with them. That is genius


[Edited on May 22, 2007 at 12:55 PM. Reason : fa]

5/22/2007 12:55:05 PM

I answered your question

Quote :

"How is Palestine supposed to defend from missile attacks, attack helicopter attacks, tank division attacks, infantry division attacks?"

its a two way street.

^^again, WTF are you 'spewing'? Do you even know yourself? I doubt it. Troll else where.

5/22/2007 2:23:46 PM

Quote :

"this is all are fault. us and britain are the ones who should be getting the suicide bombers moreso than anyone. you can't really blame israel for accepting gifts they wanted for centuries."

put 'fault' where it belongs, with Europe

5/22/2007 2:52:35 PM

What you are not agreeing to is the fact that Palestine has non conventional groups of militias who fire rockets at civilians with intent to kill. The problem is that you see rocket attacks as retribution while the rest of civilized countries see it as barbaric and evil. Whether it is retribution for crimes committed by Israel is up to world leaders and at this point and time there aren't a lot of takers outside of the middle east who agree that what Israel is doing is wrong. They see Israel as defending themselves from these attacks and they have a legitimate beef to assassinate higher ups in these militias and destroy their infrastructure as they see fit, and I tend to agree

5/22/2007 2:57:27 PM

that's the pervasive western POV....

not the typical arab/muslim one

what should have happened is that Europe, which caused the whole deal over the Jews (mostly during WWII) should have carved a chunk out of germany and france for instance (or somewhere in Europe) if they wanted them to have their own state... not out of relatively innocuous by standards like the Palestinians and Lebanese...

it WAS like Vietnam carving a chunk out of China for the American Indians to have....

[Edited on May 22, 2007 at 3:08 PM. Reason : s]

5/22/2007 3:08:30 PM

I guess we know what side of the fence you are on.

Israel attacks more civilians than Palestine, probably because they have better weapons. I don't have to agree to anything except for the fact that both sides target civilians because its a conflict that involves everyone that live in that area. Its a fight over 'holy land' not a fight between two gov.

You are so lost its not funny. You see Palestine as barbaric, I see BOTH sides as barbaric. Go stick your head back in the sand where it belongs.

^Land is the one thing they don't 'make' anymore....so no one will give up their own land for a lost cause if they can take it from someone else.

Quote :

"Whether it is retribution for crimes committed by Israel is up to world leaders and at this point and time there aren't a lot of takers outside of the middle east who agree that what Israel is doing is wrong. They see Israel as defending themselves from these attacks and they have a legitimate beef to assassinate higher ups in these militias and destroy their infrastructure as they see fit, and I tend to agree"

LOL, the only country that sees Israel in the right after what they've been doing in Lebanon is the US...and the world doesn't value americas opinion anymore. European nations have been against it...but as long as Israel has the US in its little pocket, no one can really do much about it.

[Edited on May 22, 2007 at 3:14 PM. Reason : fda]

5/22/2007 3:10:43 PM

hell, i'd be pissed if South Africans came in and told me to leave my house and such in a few hours b/c they are giving it to native americans.... just b/c they where their a long time ago for a period of time...

^true. make land like dubai is doing? nah, the whole creation of isreal was a bad idea from the start...

[Edited on May 22, 2007 at 3:13 PM. Reason : s]

5/22/2007 3:12:17 PM

^haha yeah, give them Easter island or Bikini Island, no one lives there right?

5/22/2007 3:15:52 PM

Quote :

"at this point and time there aren't a lot of takers outside of the middle east who agree that what Israel is doing is wrong. They see Israel as defending themselves from these attacks "

Tell me you are joking...?

Who the land belongs to, is your opinion.

But what the world thinks of the whole situation, is not an opinion, but fact.

And the fact is that the majority of the world's population supports the Palestinian cause, and condemns Israeli barbarity. You just don't hear about it in the US.

Whenever there is an Israeli F-16/Apache missile attack on some Palestinian refugee camp/city, the US issues official statements saying something like "Israel has a right to defend itself" whereas the rest of the world, including leaders from many countries and continents, issue official statements condemning Israeli war crimes.

What you said just shows you haven't been paying attention.

5/22/2007 5:13:26 PM

Quote :

"And the fact is that the majority of the world's population supports the Palestinian cause, and condemns Israeli barbarity."

No, they condemn both sides, just like mainstream America. Most people with an informed opinion believe that both sides are guilty of war crimes and atrocities.

[Edited on May 22, 2007 at 5:20 PM. Reason : 2]

5/22/2007 5:20:17 PM

I never said only one side is guilty of war crimes. I know that both are.

But what I did say is that in general you will hear a lot more voices condemning Israeli actions than condemning Palestinian actions. Which I believe is true, having been following this issue for the past 20 years in several news sources.

And he said that outside the ME, there aren't many who agree that what Israel is doing is wrong.

That's ludicrous. All you have to do is watch the news from international sources.

5/22/2007 5:32:49 PM

To be fair, most of the world is still pretty anti-semitic too. Latin America is especially bad (No, I don't know why this is). Europe, barring the UK to an extent, is not much better than it was 60 years ago, there are just a lot less Jews there.

Israel overreacts sometimes, but honestly they are surrounded by people who have been trying to destroy them for the past 60 years. They have tried peace, and looked what happened?

Hopefully the Lebanese military will succeed and get some experience so they can eventually move on to weakening Hezbollah's influence in the country.

5/22/2007 5:47:12 PM

Quote :

"True, because SECRETARIAN VIOLENCE is when SECRETARIES fight."

as for the middle east, i'm ready for one side to just fucking take out the other completely. i'm tired of hearing about it, i'm tired of it, completely tired of it. it's like hearing a female friend of yours complain about her boyfriend and never following advice. they can't live at peace, they never will. let them wipe eachother off of the planet so we can move in

5/22/2007 6:12:15 PM