My mom is in dire need of a new desktop for photo editing. She already has a Mac Book Pro but she wants to stick with a pc for her desktop for a long list of reasons. I know what's out there in terms of cpus, gpus, etc but i'm not exactly sure how to optimize her computer for Photoshop CS3, and keep the cost around 1200-1600 (including 24 inch dell lcd). She's also very particular and efficient in the way she works, so i want it to be noticibly a lot faster than her Pentium 4 with an integraded video card. This means i'm already going to get her a 10k HD for windows and writing/reading photos (she moves files around like mad) and her Nikon D2X spits out 12.4 megapixel raw files, so i want the fastest possible file read/write speeds. In terms of a cpu i know i'm going with a C2D, but how much does the video card play in photo editing? Not much right?

Any hardware advice would be great. A mobo, video card, and which C2D etc. I'm not going cheap on this, because i want it to last.

[Edited on June 7, 2007 at 6:53 PM. Reason : .]

6/7/2007 6:34:19 PM

My suggestions would be:

1) Lots of memory. I would guess that more memory would make a bigger difference than more processor in your situation.

2) How 'bout a striped RAID?

6/7/2007 7:00:09 PM

Yeah i was considering raid, possibly for back up though.

6/7/2007 7:24:09 PM

sounds like you're right on track

i'd setup a 10k raptor for the primary, and striped raid array for storage

you may consider a 2nd hdd just for a scratch disk

lots of memory is good, you may want to run 3-4gb w/ the 3gb switch considering how memory intensive photoshop can be with large images.

graphics card does not have to be the best out there, i'd say get an 8600 (or 7900gs) if you want it to last though

E6320/E6420/E6600 are probably the best performance for the price, but in all honesty any of the C2D's would do just fine

any motherboard will do, you may want to also think about peripherals like external storage, you may want to opt for a motherboard with an e-sata header or similar...

maybe a card reader and a sata burner for burning/backing up photos to dvd

just some thoughts

[Edited on June 7, 2007 at 8:09 PM. Reason : .]

6/7/2007 8:04:57 PM

id stick to the one 10k drive for the OS, and one slower drive for data.

6/7/2007 8:05:21 PM

vista so the machine can handle 4gb of ram

6/7/2007 9:15:25 PM

graphics cards can be damn near bottom of the line because all you are doing is a 2d image. I noticed no performance difference between an old 8mb ati card and a gf4 ti 4600 I used to have. Find out the resolution of the monitor she'll be using and make sure the card can do that resolution at 60hz and 32bit color, which shouldn't be a problem for any card made in the past 3-4 years. Get the most stable motherboard you can, which usually entails an Intel board (though the one I got was DOA) and at least 2gb of ram. If she uses Nikon Capture she can easily use up 2gb+ of ram with a couple dozen images open, or using PCS3 and the new smart filters and all of the other cool shit that cs3 has over older versions.


get a FAST spare hdd to use strictly as a scratch disk. Doesn't need to be large, but that will definitely help speed up photoshop.

[Edited on June 7, 2007 at 9:31 PM. Reason : ]

6/7/2007 9:29:51 PM

In all honesty, if you are budgeting 1600 for a whole system, I would go with dual monitors instead of just one large screen. Sure the 24 inch is great with a 1920x1200 res, but I find having two monitors increase my work efficiency on my desktop (20.1" LCD 1680x1050, 21" CRT flatscreen 1600x1200) compared to my E1705 laptop with a 17" 1920x1200 screen. The higher res definitely helps in content creation like illustrator but the extra res isn't really that effective since I know most of the CS hotkeys. Not only that, but I use one screen dedicated for the canvas and the other screen holding the CS tools, explorer browsers to quickly look at thumbnails, and/or having another program open such as adobe PS album or a 3rd party FTP to quickly transfer files to my website. And 20.1" LCD's these day's are so damn cheap. I wished I had a 2nd PCI-E 16x in my computer to get another graphics card to run two more monitors or have dual-link and get a 30" monster.

My system:
E6600
4GB DDR667
320GB HDD
8800 GTS 640

You don't need a high end video card like the 8800 (I play games), but I'd look at getting some 8 series for dual-link (I believe they all have it), not exactly sure if the 7900gs has dual link either. Dual link is a must have for future compatibility for high res monitors, bigger than 1920x1200. My desktop cost about 900 to build, not including OS or monitors. Also if you get vista, that OS is a resource hog, specially on the video card with all of the "cool" features on. Another thing to look at would be the HDCP compliant cards (which 8 series are) for future compatibility with HD-DVD's and blueray's. This may not be important to photographers, but if she does other media work, this could be a good feature to have.

While raid is a great idea for redundancy for a lower risk of losing data, I say that getting into the habit of backing your data is more important. I've had incidents at work where two HDD's went out at the same time and all data was lost, but we create backups every night so, technically, they weren't lost.

I do this by categorizing my photo shoots into folders using the date (like "2007.04.21"). I then expand it out into more folders as such:

"Source" - your main raw files (RAW, TIFF, JPEG) that are untouched. Delete the bad/blurry pictures.
"Processed" - your few selected raw files (RAW, TIFF, JPEG) that you move over from the 'Source' folder that you wish to edit. Leave it unedited in here as well. After Finalizing the selection, I do a batch rename using the date and a counter (like "2007_04_21_XXXX.jpeg", where XXXX is the counter).
"Edited" - your source files that are edited, cropped, tweaked and such. I leave the pictures in their native 3:2 ratio that my 30D puts out.
"Web" - your exported pictures from the 'Edited' folder, just resized for the web. I do a batch resize to 800x533, then do a batch process to add my custom watermark logo.

You can also add meta tags and comments for the pictures in a batch process as well. So you can search for the pictures in the future. I then back everything up onto a DVD and store in a Disc Wallet. This is a great filing structure as if someone goes to my website and wants a photo, I can quickly pull it up since I know the exact date, folder, and file to go to, even on disc. I'll end up getting another hard drive for added storage space since having multiple files of the same picture eats up space quickly. I already have 20GB of pictures, even after post-processing and deleted a lot of unwanted pictures.

[Edited on June 7, 2007 at 10:00 PM. Reason : ]

6/7/2007 9:54:13 PM

^ She's been working on a 19 inch crt, and i'm going to get her something larger. I just got another monitor so she's jealous of that. Currently i'm running my new 24 inch dell (1920 by 1200) my older 20.1 inch dell (1680 by 1050) and my dell laptop (1920 by 1200). Plus i have 1.6 tbytes of storage on a c2d6600 and a 7950gx2 (getting a 8800 ultra next friday), so she's figured out she wants an improvement.

I was considering dual monitors and might do the dual 20.1's instead of the 24 inch. Oh and she's been digital ever since the Nikon D1, D100, and then D2X, so she's worked out her file system similar to yours. Raw, processed, edited, and contact sheet and folders (and she loves meta tags). She was the first female photographer at the Charlotte Observer (quit a while back to do freelance), and main photographer for the Business Journal in Charlotte currenly along with many non-profit organizations (catawba lands conservancy, rails to trails, etc)

I'm running Vista Ultimate 64 bit, but I don't want to put Vista on her computer yet, although i don't know how much more of an advange 4 gigs of ram would be over 2 gigs if all she's doing is cs3.

^^ Yeah place for scratch disk.

^

Quote :

"(I play games) "

Going to play Crysis when it comes out?

[Edited on June 8, 2007 at 1:27 AM. Reason : .]

6/8/2007 1:21:53 AM

perhaps, I rarely play games now. Crysis looks cool, but I don't have spare time anymore. Working 40 hours a week + all the side jobs and hobbies I do now and still doing school, I wonder how I can manage sleep. I can definitely say this has been the most productive year and hopefully the beginnings of a fruitful life with photography.

But seriously, if you want to do something really special for her, try setting up a triple or quad monitor system. Two monitors is common among content creators but three or more is much more exclusive and give that extra niceness. The way my corner desk is setup, I could have a large main monitor (like a 24 or 30" LCD) then have two auxiliary 20.1" monitors on the side and still have enough room for my laptop on the side, keyboards for two desktops, and some self units.

I know Nikon's make good camera's, I'm just a Canon lover. My dad has an old A-1 35mm SLR and my brother used to do photography using Leica's in college, so I guess it was inevitable to get in the art as well. Kinda funny that I'm actually following it more in depth and faster then they did, instead of it being just a hobby.

6/8/2007 1:47:36 AM

Yeah it's still a hobby for me. I want the 30inch but it's 1500-1600 dollars and when a 24 inch is only around 600, it's hard to justify another grand for the 6 inches.

6/8/2007 8:22:56 AM

I'd go cheap on the PC but get a good monitor. Why drop $1200 on a PC when you could get a cheap $350 model and put in extra memory? Want it to last? Get another $350 model in a few years and you've still only spent $700 for about the same coverage of time plus you've upgraded.

/flame on

[Edited on June 8, 2007 at 10:22 AM. Reason : -]

6/8/2007 10:21:30 AM

Well 1400-1600 IS a budget PC, pretty cheap. In my opinion she wasted more money on the 3k mac book pro.

6/8/2007 10:24:22 AM

^^ you wouldn't believe the performance difference between a 3ghz p4 w/ 2gb ram and a c2d e6400 w/ 2gb ram when dealing with RAW files.

6/8/2007 10:32:55 AM

Oh, yeah, well if you have that kind of money to burn...

^I saw a C2D on slickdeals from Dell the other day for just under $400.

[Edited on June 8, 2007 at 10:34 AM. Reason : -]

6/8/2007 10:33:01 AM

^^ Yeah, the difference is enough with my 3.2 P4 laptop w/ a gig of ram, and my 6600 with 2 gigs of ram running 64 bit.

6/8/2007 10:36:39 AM

I would invest in a decent machine, specially for content creation. You may not see a slow down using photoshop on one or a small number of pictures, but when you start working on a dozen, two, three, even four at a time open, that really bogs the computer down. If I'm working on a series of pictures, I always keep each one open to make sure I can tweak the white balance so all of the series have the same or similar exposure, contrast, and brightness so you won't get a lot of variance between the shots.

The real bog down is when you're doing a batch process on raw, high res pictures. Specially doing filters or scripting and doing it over hundreds of pictures at one time.

6/8/2007 10:42:41 AM

Alright, she also keeps lots of raw files open at a time, so you would recommmened more than 2 gigs?

6/8/2007 10:49:01 AM

Quote :

"Yeah i was considering raid, possibly for back up though."

I was thinking raid 0 for the increase in read/write speed, not for backup purposes. You could go raid 0+1, and that'll give you speed and the backup. I think I'd rather do periodic dvd backups, though.

6/8/2007 11:01:35 AM

^Yeah you're right, raid 0 for speed, and she backs up on dvds all the time.

6/8/2007 11:03:38 AM

I'm getting an 8800 ultra or gtx next week, and i'm giving my mom my old 7950 gx2 so i know that's overkill for what she's doing, but if i have two cards, it's going to be 2 8800's. Plus it's got good dual monitor support so that'll work.

6/8/2007 11:35:27 AM

i've had both a RAID 0 array & a WD raptor 10k hard drive and i can tell you RAID 0 isn't worth it, you are much, much safer and near identical speed, less heat and consumes less power going with a single raptor 10k drive

like i said in my orig. post, your best bet is a 10k drive for primary/OS, a fast scratch disk, a large storage disk (or 2 disks in raid 1) and get an e-sata external enclosure to accompany the dvd-rw... RAID 0 for storage would be just dumb...

though you could do 0+1 and use 3 drives thus eliminating the need for a separate scratch disk.

[Edited on June 8, 2007 at 12:20 PM. Reason : .]

6/8/2007 12:17:17 PM

also defragging your hard drive can improve your speed by a lot. And as someone else said to partition a section of your main drive for just page files (2GB).

6/8/2007 3:11:03 PM

Don't go with anything less than 4 gb of ram.

C2D extreme for the cpu.

10k raptor...

you are looking good so far.

6/8/2007 4:33:57 PM

I got my new 24inch dell lcd a few days ago, and it's amazing the contrast ratio difference between that one, and my older 20.1 inch. I think the older one is 600:1, and the 24 inch is 1000:1. The whites almost look yellow on the 20.1 compared to the 24 inch. My mom keeps worrying about "what i see is what they get" in terms of color, and brightness. Guess i need to get a spyder2 for her.

6/11/2007 9:32:01 AM

spyder2 is a def. must if she is doing any of the editing / printing

6/11/2007 10:49:06 AM

Damn they don't make 15k hd's for sata?

6/11/2007 10:56:11 AM

Alright think i'm going with a lower c2d (6420 maybe), an 8600gts, 1x 10k HD (OS and programs), 2x 7200 500gig HDs (storage), my old asus p5b-e mobo, and either 2-4 gigs of ddr2-800. Then probably an antec sonata case or something.

-What i really need help on is the power supplies. I know the least about these. Any suggestions? I probably don't need anything over 600 or 700.

[Edited on June 12, 2007 at 9:44 AM. Reason : .]

6/12/2007 9:37:31 AM

sounds perfect.

i'd say go with an enermax liberty just because that's what i know and love, super quiet, modular cables, probably best PF and efficiency out there, just great overall power supply

OCZ is good too (they just bought PCP&C), seasonic, along with the antec true power series, sparkle, corsair just to name a few

all things considered a 500w or 600w would probably be fine, no real need for 600+ unless you are running SLi

the three major things you should be looking for are:
1) voltages on rails (you'll want dual 12v rails rated at ~18-20A or higher per rail)
2) efficiency of 80% or higher
3) the higher PF (power factor) the better (active PFC a huge plus)

optional, personal preference / need:
1) acoustics, noise level of fan (this is a big pet peeve of mine)
2) modular cables
3) wattage
4) price

if you have a high-efficiency and high PF psu, the lower wattage PSU you'll need... consider this, a 600W PSU with 65% efficiency under 100% load only puts out 390W, a 500W PSU with 80% efficiency puts out 400W

[Edited on June 12, 2007 at 10:50 AM. Reason : .]

6/12/2007 10:39:39 AM

the 350/380w (can't remember) in my sonata case handles the c2d, multiple hdds, 7900gs video card, multiple pci cards, without any problem. Gaming, video encoding and capture, photoshop, etc all don't even cause a slight hiccup. Going with a 500w psu with a c2d isn't needed unless you are running 4+ hdds in constant use.

6/12/2007 1:28:57 PM

^See i'm giving her my old 7950gx2 (i know way overkill, i'll probably trade it out for something cheaper later) , plus she's going to be running 3 hd's. So i ordered a ocz 1050watt psu for myself, and i'm giving her my old 700watt which is about the perfect amount for her c2d and the 7950gx2 (Used to have a 460 on it, and it barely booted up).

-Just ordered all the parts, including a 8800gtx EVGA KO for me!!!
(Basically i'm upgrading my computer now, so we made a deal and i'm ordering a new mobo, video card, and psu for me, and giving her my old ones which are better for what she's doing. To make up the difference i threw in my 20.1 inch dell lcd and free labor.)


[Edited on June 12, 2007 at 1:45 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2007 1:42:33 PM

n/m

[Edited on June 12, 2007 at 1:44 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2007 1:42:50 PM

So her computer:
C2D 6320
4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 6400 CORSAIR
Nvidia 7950gx2 (sli on one pci-e slot)
Asus P5B-E mobo
FSP FX 700watt PSU
Lite ON 20x DVD+-RW SATA
Antec Performance One P180B Case
Western Digital Raptor 10k 150gb
Seagate 7200rpm 250gb
20.1 inch 1680 by 1050 dell lcd (she might get a 24 inch in the near future, take advantage of the 7950gx2)

My upgraded computer
C2d 6600 @3.6
4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 6400 CORSAIR XMS2
Nvidia EVGA 8800GTX 768MB KO HDCP GPU (sli in near future)
Asus P5N32-E SLI 680i Mobo
2x Seagate Baracuda 500gb
1x Seagate Baracuda 300gb
1x Western Digital Raptor 10k 150gb
Lite ON 20x DVD+-RW SATA
Thermal Take Armor Full tower with 25cm fan and liquid cpu cooling
24 inch 1920 by 1200 dell lcd

-Now all that remains is what os to put on her computer. I was thinking vista 64 bit, because of the 4 gigs of ram. 32bit xp won't handle 4 gigs of ram correct?

6/12/2007 1:57:06 PM

lol, i can't believe that you'd normally charge your mom labor.

xp can handle 4gb of ram, but limits applications to 2gb normally, you can set it manually up to 3gb but you have to enable it with the /3GB switch on bootup (boot.ini) whatever is left (1-2gb) is used for windows executive software, not applications

but 32-bit does support 4gb

[Edited on June 12, 2007 at 3:57 PM. Reason : wording]

6/12/2007 3:52:26 PM

^ haha no i don't ever charge my mom labor. We're saving some money on this deal. I went to dell.com and customized an xps desktop with almost exact same specs (ram is 667 for dells, and i'm getting 800), and it came out to be like 2800. I got everything for around 2 grand. Saving her money.

6/12/2007 3:59:48 PM

aaaahhhh...

specs look good for both, FSP is a good psu

btw, what on earth are you going to do with (2) 8800GTX 768MB gfx cards in SLi? I can not think of one instance where it would be justified to spend another $650... i'd use that money elsewhere

you really think (1) Seagate 7200rpm 250gb is enough for a photographer?

i'm confused

Quote :

"plus she's going to be running 3 hd's. "

Quote :

"Western Digital Raptor 10k 150gb Seagate 7200rpm 250gb"

[Edited on June 12, 2007 at 4:21 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2007 4:17:09 PM

I have had my laptop since november of 2002

I cant wait til I get something new

[Edited on June 12, 2007 at 4:20 PM. Reason : 1.7ghz pent 4-m, 384mb ram]

6/12/2007 4:20:12 PM

^^ lol I doubt i'll actually buy another one. I meant like in the future once the price drops and i want more performance, rather than buying another card i can add another in sli. For example if a 8900 series comes out, but i want more performance without paying another 600~ i can buy a 8800gtx for around 300-350 (assuming price drop) and do that in sli.

Oh i have another 500GB Seagate Barracuda i'm putting in my mom's case. I just didn't list it. Forgot i guess. Plus she has two 250gb externals she uses.

6/12/2007 5:07:23 PM

I think i'll go with xp pro 32bit. As much as i want to put vista ultimate 64 bit on there, i don't want her to run into trouble and me be in Raleigh when it happens.

6/12/2007 5:14:26 PM

Free donuts at work! Ordered all the parts from newegg.com. They should be here thursday or friday. Going to the beach this weekend, so i'll probably assemble both computers sunday night. I'll be on here for troubleshooting. Hopefully everything will run smoothly.

6/13/2007 9:14:47 AM

since she already has a macbook wouldn't it be cheaper in the long run to get another mac? just look at having to buy all those copies of photoshop and whatnot for 2 different platforms. at least from a photography stand point? if she needs windows just hook her up w/ a copy on the mac via bootcamp and maybe even get her parallels and she won't have to reboot. (i do this for one piece of cad software we run)

i'm assuming with this post you buy software

6/13/2007 6:28:20 PM

btw, CS3 rocks.

6/13/2007 6:36:03 PM

i think that cs3 works on either platform

6/13/2007 7:22:21 PM

they still have mac or pc discs... Got CS3 for my bro's macbook and got CS3 for my dell laptop. I've been using CS so it's a step up.

6/13/2007 7:42:36 PM

it was just a thought.. with a copy of office costing $200 and up it makes sense to me to keep everything in the same family.. and i have cs3 don't think the pc version is on the same disc, though i haven't looked.

6/13/2007 7:54:42 PM

^^ throw the windows version in the mac and see what happens

6/13/2007 8:34:12 PM

my bro lives in Seattle so that's kinda hard to do. And the windows one if for my work so I won't have access to the disc's. I give it to the IT guys so they can install it... They don't trust anyone with software now...

6/13/2007 8:42:50 PM

She has both a windows and mac copy of cs3. She's had her Mac Book Pro for almost a year and she still can't get it to work as efficiently as her 4-5 year old PC. She's very efficient at what she does, and she edits photos incredibly fast, and the whole Mac OS folder system just makes no sense to her. She's used to organizing all her folders on her own, and keeping track of them that way. With her mac book every application treats a different folder as a sub-root folder so it confuses her.

She'll sit at caribou for 2 hours trying to edit photos on cs3 on the mac book pro, when she could get the same amount of work done in 30 minutes on her old PC.

I have NO CLUE why she can't figure it out. Arn't macs supposed to be easier to figure out? She's also annoyed because the application/file start-up time isn't really that much faster than on her old pc. My 4 year old dell pentium 4 laptop boots up photoshop, and brings up photos faster than her mac book pro. Hell, my desktop brings up applications and stuff faster then the mac pros in the apple store in Charlotte that go in upwards of 3-4 grand.

I'd use a Mac Book Pro as a paper-weight or a wall hanging, but not for a computer. They're too slow and just plan boring. (Yes i've used Macs my entire life along with PC's and i still dislike them). Aside from my opinion i helped my mom get a Mac Book Pro beacuse i thought she would easily get into it, but alass she still can't figure it out after a year.

6/13/2007 10:41:42 PM

Parts are coming tomorrow!!! (Thursday)

[Edited on June 14, 2007 at 12:22 AM. Reason : .]

6/14/2007 12:22:11 AM

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6/14/2007 1:40:51 AM