http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6814048597272982882

7/22/2007 9:01:00 PM

I wish there was a transcript, it would be easier to debunk.

7/22/2007 9:06:48 PM

^

7/22/2007 9:07:12 PM

not this guy again.

7/22/2007 9:27:50 PM

Wow.

So much wrong.

7/22/2007 9:29:07 PM

I'm going to watch the first one and see how fucking stupid it is.

7/22/2007 10:44:07 PM

so he hasn't even listed one reason and he's already merged the big bang with evolution

good fucking job

I'm going to have to stop. He just said evolution states dogs evolved from rocks...

[Edited on July 22, 2007 at 10:49 PM. Reason : ]

7/22/2007 10:46:58 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind

Quote :

"Hovind is currently serving a ten-year term in Federal Correctional Institution, Edgefield in Edgefield, South Carolina for 58 tax offenses, obstructing federal agents and related charges.[2]"

edit: Apparently this is where he got his "MA" and his "PhD"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Bible_University

[Edited on July 22, 2007 at 10:57 PM. Reason : ]

7/22/2007 10:55:37 PM

7/22/2007 11:06:02 PM

wow

7/22/2007 11:08:54 PM

JESUS FUCK.

He said about a dozen times that "dogs produce dogs". Then he goes on to admit that dogs, coyotes, and wolves had a common ancestor. gg

7/22/2007 11:20:45 PM

the first major thing that got me was him saying that the big bang was bs because planets spin opposite ways and matter is lumped together. i haven't even researched but common sense would tell me the reason for opposite spinning i'm sure has to do with gravitational effects from other objects and explosions (which aren't angular momentum occurances) would throw matter randomly

and as for the lumping, gravity within those lumps pulled everything together over the billions of years of existance

7/22/2007 11:25:20 PM

i've watched a few of his videos posted on youtube, and i'd say that he's either:

1. a complete dumbass
or
2. trolling the hell out of people to get a reaction

there is no way any sane person could believe some of the bullshit that comes out of his mouth

7/23/2007 12:03:23 AM

This particular lecture was in Idaho, where 98% of the population votes republican.

7/23/2007 12:11:10 AM

^ really?

Its funny that you guys get so angry when someone uses the same method of argument back against you. Many of you peoples poo poo creationists as simpleton flat earth fundamentalist pro dark age neanderthals who hate science... that is you say creationists are stupid. He is simply responding in kind.

Of course many of his arguments are way to simplistic, but then again so are your rebuttals here.

I would guide you to look at

http://www.kent-hovind.com/aig_debunk.htm

for a short list of stuff we creationists think Hovind either overstated or was just plain wrong.

(from the first 6 minutes I would note his description of the Big Bang is off, the universe is not exploding into something necessarily, also while I think star formation is still beyond current observational capabilities, there is no reason to think its still not physically possible and/or that we could actually not see the creation event if we looked far enough back in time. )

[Edited on July 23, 2007 at 12:42 AM. Reason : .]

7/23/2007 12:39:07 AM

Yea. All of our arguments are "creationists are stupid." You got me.

7/23/2007 1:02:24 AM

that actually is my argument.

creationists! LOL

[Edited on July 23, 2007 at 1:46 AM. Reason : ,]

7/23/2007 1:45:46 AM

Here's my 1 Reason Why Creationism is Stupid:

The universe is more than 5000 years old.


It's good to see though Creationists at least try to regroup though, maybe they'll realize they're wrong after more thinking.

7/23/2007 1:57:55 AM

i also thought God would have useful things to post about

7/23/2007 2:24:36 AM

I can't believe that I wasted 35 mins sitting through part of that. I kept hoping that he was going to say something true.

7/23/2007 8:14:06 AM

http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/bartelt_dissertation_on_hovind_thesis.htm


Here's a critique of this guy's PHD thesis:

Quote :

" Misspellings are rampant. A careful, knowledgeable editor/adviser would never allow a student to get away with misspelling "Caanan", "Voltair", "Nyles Eldridge", Madelyn Murray "O'Hare" (just like the airport), "Shintu" (the Japanese religion), "peersuaded", "centrifical" (force!!!), "aught" (to!), "disippated", "immerged" (from the slime), or "epic" (as in geological!). "It's" is used as a possessive pronoun. There are several non sentences. This is especially interesting since the course catalog of PU offers courses like "Refresher English" and "Mechanics of Composition"."

7/23/2007 8:53:47 AM

This is fucking nuts.

It is really hard to accept that educated adults actually believe in creationism.

I think that deep down inside, nearly all of them (adults, at least,) know that they are wrong, but in order to climb in status in their cult, they must feign belief in certain falsehoods, in some cases to the point of actually believing them.

No one, including mathman, should have been allowed to graduate public high school or go to a public college without acknowledging evolution as fact. Creationuts should all have to go to private school and college.

Also, they should have to wear a giant letter 'C' on their person at all times.

They should have to disclose their idiotic beliefs when applying for a job, buying a house, etc.

I, for one, would never hire a creationut, sell them anything of value, or for that matter, do anything that furthers their life, efforts, or happiness.

Christians who accept evolution and reject creationism should do a better job of combating these creationuts, because they are dragging the term "Christian" through the mud.



OMG STOP PERSECUTING ME FOR MY BELIEFS!!!1

7/23/2007 9:01:28 AM

hahahaha

7/23/2007 9:03:38 AM

Yes, Shinto the religion caused WWII. Just like Christianity the religion caused the Crusades.

7/23/2007 9:39:13 AM

Quote :

"Yea. All of our arguments are "creationists are stupid." You got me."

I wouldn't say that is the total sum of all your arguments, however I would say that is about 95% of what is said in forums in discussing creationism. This thread being a typical example. Notice no one has bothered to level even one valid criticism of creationism as of yet. The following is close to one,

Quote :

"Here's my 1 Reason Why Creationism is Stupid: The universe is more than 5000 years old."

if this was intentional it would be very funny, however I doubt it.

[its 6000 years not 5000,the short form of my personal view is that it may well be 6000 years old and 20 billions years old all at once, just depends on the frame of reference...]

Finally, to ^^^ it's already been done. (not here yet)

7/23/2007 2:15:17 PM

Quote :

"Yes, Shinto the religion caused WWII. Just like Christianity the religion caused the Crusades. "

Actually that statement is pretty accurate. The emperor was elevated to a god-like status over the period of about 50 years and religion was forced into peoples homes (much like the middle ages church I'd guess, though I'm not an expert on that area).

People could not question the emperor's motives. They were fighting because their LIVING descendant of god was telling them what to do.

7/23/2007 2:18:39 PM

Quote :

" the short form of my personal view is that it may well be 6000 years old and 20 billions years old all at once, just depends on the frame of reference"

That may be your personal view, but then you're not really a creationist like hovind and the other mainstream YECers. The purpose of the creationist thinking the Earth is only 6000 years old is to point out that evolution is wrong, because evolution requires billions of years, and that god made all animals as-is, 6000 years ago.

I'm assuming you're thinking some kind of relativistic effect that makes the earth billions of years old to us, but to god it's only a few thousand ( which is not even how relativity works anyway), which apart from not being what the bible says, would still allow for evolution to be true, making it a meaningless idea for the creationists.

7/23/2007 2:25:50 PM

Quote :

"just depends on the frame of reference..."

yeah, i think we're talking about earth years here.

7/23/2007 2:26:31 PM

Quote :

"Actually that statement is pretty accurate. The emperor was elevated to a god-like status over the period of about 50 years and religion was forced into peoples homes (much like the middle ages church I'd guess, though I'm not an expert on that area)."

While somewhat accurate, I don't think its fair to Shintoism to say that it was responsible for WWII. The Japanese government hijacked the religion to pursue their nationalistic ideas and perveted it considerably between the Meiji Restoration and WWII. Prior to that, the emperor wasn't considered divine and the religion shared many ideals with Buddhism and Confucianism.

Its not terribly unlike what Islamic extremists have done with their own religion. Sorry to nitpick.

7/23/2007 2:33:49 PM

Dinos were the result of baby Jesus kicking the etch-a-sketch.

7/23/2007 2:58:05 PM

Quote :

" While somewhat accurate, I don't think its fair to Shintoism to say that it was responsible for WWII. The Japanese government hijacked the religion to pursue their nationalistic ideas and perveted it considerably between the Meiji Restoration and WWII. Prior to that, the emperor wasn't considered divine and the religion shared many ideals with Buddhism and Confucianism."

Oh, I don't blame the religion, I blame the corruption of religion, which is all too easy to do if it is organized in any way.

In fact your confusion of the merging of buddhism and confucianism is a direct result of government intervention. Shinto, in its original form, has no written texts whatsoever, it is pure and classic animism. The government tried to give it a prescribed doctrine by mixing in confuscian ideals and co-opting the buddhist temples and make something more tangible for the people to have (much like the bible and koran, etc.)

Of course, once they started fucking with the religion so much several 'purists' began writing about the correct form of shinto and you got about 100 different splinters that exist to this day and wreak havok in Japan from time to time. (The Aum cult is arguably a direct result of late 19th century tinkering with Shinto).

7/23/2007 3:04:30 PM

Quote :

"The purpose of the creationist thinking the Earth is only 6000 years old is to point out that evolution is wrong, because evolution requires billions of years, and that god made all animals as-is, 6000 years ago."

And vice versa... What was the purpose of evolutionist thinking when it first appeared in the late 1800's? Was it not for the very same reason? Look up some Charles Darwin quotes on google. You'd be amazed.

In the end, it all boils down to what you want to believe in. So how do we know what the absolute truth is...

... from creationist's point of view: "I'll find out when I die."
... from evolutionist's point of view: "I'll never know for sure."

7/23/2007 3:12:00 PM

Quote :

"The government tried to give it a prescribed doctrine by mixing in confuscian ideals and co-opting the buddhist temples and make something more tangible for the people to have (much like the bible and koran, etc.)"

You definitely know more about this than I do, but wasn't it the other way around? I thought that Shinto had similar roots to the other major eastern religions, but was separated from them after Meiji in an effort to make shinto something entirely japanese and that it focused on shrines that had existed before the Restoration. Again, I'm not trying to argue here, just trying to clarify my limited understanding of it.

7/23/2007 3:25:46 PM

No, Confuciasim and Buddhism was introduced into Japan long after Shinto (which at the time really had no name, it was just the indigenous religion) had a strong hold on the people in Japan. Buddhism actually didn't gain any real ground until the Meiji period IIRC. The Meiji government, in an effort to unite Japan under the emperor and one modern government, decided religion could be used and tried to make an orthodox religion out of what was essentially a tribal religion by mixing it with chinese thought (confuscianism) and buddhism.

edit: this was also in an effort to keep christianity from taking hold in japan iirc. they thought christianity could undermine local power and make them into a colony like the rest of asia at the time.

[Edited on July 23, 2007 at 3:33 PM. Reason : .]

7/23/2007 3:32:12 PM

can someone explain what he was talking about when he implied that carbon dating and phosgate dating and all that other stuff isn't accurate?

7/23/2007 4:03:05 PM

It's not superaccurate like the bible!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote :

"Radiocarbon labs generally report an uncertainty, e.g., 3000±30BP indicates a standard deviation of 30 radiocarbon years. Traditionally this includes only the statistical counting uncertainty and some labs supply an "error multiplier" that can be multiplied by the uncertainty to account for other sources of error in the measuring process. Additional error is likely to arise from the nature and collection of the sample itself, e.g., a tree may accumulate carbon over a significant period of time. Such old wood, turned into an artifact some time after the death of the tree, will reflect the date of the carbon in the wood. The current maximum radiocarbon age limit lies in the range between 58,000 and 62,000 years (approximately 10 half-lives). This limit is encountered when the radioactivity of the residual 14C in a sample is too low to be distinguished from the background radiation. "

7/23/2007 4:08:07 PM

so like + or - 62000 years of accuracy or like max far back we can tell is 62000 years?

thanks btw

[Edited on July 23, 2007 at 4:10 PM. Reason : jank]

7/23/2007 4:09:48 PM

my problem with creationism is who created the Creator?

7/23/2007 4:24:52 PM

eh, the same can be said with evolution and the universe

where did it all initially come from

7/23/2007 4:29:02 PM

Quote :

"And vice versa... What was the purpose of evolutionist thinking when it first appeared in the late 1800's? Was it not for the very same reason? Look up some Charles Darwin quotes on google. You'd be amazed."

I don't think so. Scientists weren't thinking "damn, we really need to disprove the bible." Science doesn't give a shit what you think. You don't read a science textbook and see anything about the existence or nonexistence of God. You don't see anything about the existence or nonexistence of angels, demons, leprechauns, unicorns, or any of that.

It wasn't until after the theory of evolution was accepted that people start getting offended and we then get these ideas like "intelligent design." And they don't just try to prove ideas that stand by themselves. They go out and attack theories. They attack people. Just like this video "evolution is stupid."

Quote :

"the short form of my personal view is that it may well be 6000 years old and 20 billions years old all at once, just depends on the frame of reference"

what? the frame of reference is time

Quote :

"I wouldn't say that is the total sum of all your arguments, however I would say that is about 95% of what is said in forums in discussing creationism. This thread being a typical example. Notice no one has bothered to level even one valid criticism of creationism as of yet."

This thread is about a video by one Dr. Hovind. You would think arguments from someone speaking to large group and telling them he is a doctor wouldn't be that bad, but you and I know both know virtually everything he says is garbage. Why would we need to offer valid criticisms? There is nothing to critique.

7/23/2007 4:35:00 PM

Where is a good place to get a fake PhD?

7/23/2007 4:37:18 PM

You guys pretty much covered the Shinto thing well. Thanks. What I didn't see mentioned was that there are different sects of Shinto and it was State Shinto that caused the big problem. The Emperor was actually thought of as a divine being having descended from kami. The trouble came when they (the state) used Shinto to strong arm the people into militarism.

I really didn't mean to sidetrack the discussion but I could not let someone slander my religion while he himself professes to be a man of faith. I wonder what Jesus would think of that?

7/23/2007 4:39:35 PM

Quote :

"Thanks. What I didn't see mentioned was that there are different sects of Shinto and it was State Shinto that caused the big problem."

Quote :

"Of course, once they started fucking with the religion so much several 'purists' began writing about the correct form of shinto and you got about 100 different splinters that exist to this day and wreak havok in Japan from time to time."

also

Quote :

"I could not let someone slander my religion"

lol
someone has watched too much anime.

7/23/2007 4:45:19 PM

Quote :

"so like + or - 62000 years of accuracy or like max far back we can tell is 62000 years?"

7/23/2007 5:26:00 PM

What does Shinto have to do with anime?

7/23/2007 5:41:57 PM

^^ http://sci.waikato.ac.nz/evolution/RadiometricDating.shtml

Carbon isn't the only element that can be radiometrically dated.

7/23/2007 6:48:15 PM

^ thank you!!

and now that i've read it, this guy is just flat out either lying or stupid

he complains about the inconsistency of using layered rock to tell how old the bones are but of also how the dating can't tell anything made of bone older than 100,000 years

so what they do is use the uranium dating to determine the layers and then estimate the age of the bones that way


this guy is hilarious

thanks again moron

7/23/2007 6:59:12 PM

i refuse to read this thread. the hand banana theory will forever explain the mysteries of the universe.

7/23/2007 7:01:16 PM

^^ Ha, I thought you were trying to troll...

I'm kind of surprised you didn't realize that. I'm sure i learned about that at some point in middle or high school.

No wonder though people are so easily fooled by Creationism.

7/23/2007 7:11:20 PM

nah i don't troll in soap box, this is actually my fav section of wolfweb

7/23/2007 7:36:12 PM