. . .at the United Nations!

Dangerous chemicals found at UN
Several vials of potentially dangerous chemicals have been found at a United Nations building in New York.

Quote :

"The material, said to include phosgene, is said to have been removed from Iraq during inspections of chemical facilities a decade ago. The UN said the vials had been found by inspectors as they cleared out an office near the UN's headquarters. The material 'could be potentially hazardous', but did not pose any immediate risk, a UN spokeswoman said."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6971232.stm

1. There is no doubt that Saddam possessed and used on humans a number of deadly chemicals.

2. This is just sloppy work by UN officials. I mean, these are potentially dangerous chemicals--removed from Iraq during an inspection--and they just toss them in an office somewhere and forget about them?

THIS JUST IN: The other WMDs were found swept under the United Nation's rug.

8/31/2007 3:20:52 AM

8/31/2007 6:33:07 AM

Chit Chat?

8/31/2007 6:52:40 AM

Quote :

"1. There is no doubt that Saddam possessed and used on humans a number of deadly chemicals."

No s***. Reagan sold them to him.

8/31/2007 7:13:12 AM

I fail to see the point of this thread.

8/31/2007 7:32:35 AM

welcome to a hooksaw thread! hope you enjoyed your stay!

8/31/2007 7:50:20 AM

^^um, we've been looking for Iraq's alleged chemical weapons for 4 years?

[Edited on August 31, 2007 at 7:51 AM. Reason : .]

8/31/2007 7:51:16 AM

These were originally found in Iraq a decade ago. Bush's contention has been that Saddam was hiding additional chemical weapons that the UN was unable to find. And, after 4 years, we still haven't found these additional WMDs that Bush claims Saddam was hiding.

[Edited on August 31, 2007 at 8:06 AM. Reason : ]

8/31/2007 8:06:22 AM

Quote :

"Chit Chat?"

8/31/2007 8:09:12 AM

Quote :

"Chit Chat?"

8/31/2007 10:44:08 AM

Quote :

"These were originally found in Iraq a decade ago. Bush's contention has been that Saddam was hiding additional chemical weapons that the UN was unable to find. And, after 4 years, we still haven't found these additional WMDs that Bush claims Saddam was hiding."

A Tarzansanus

For your information, we did find "additional chemical weapons" and a number of other things:

Iraqi Chemical Stash Uncovered
Post-Invasion Cache Could Have Been For Use in Weapons

Quote :

"BAGHDAD, Aug. 13 -- U.S. troops raiding a warehouse in the northern city of Mosul uncovered a suspected chemical weapons factory containing 1,500 gallons of chemicals believed destined for attacks on U.S. and Iraqi forces and civilians, military officials said Saturday. Monday's early morning raid found 11 precursor agents, 'some of them quite dangerous by themselves,' a military spokesman, Lt. Col. Steven A. Boylan, said in Baghdad."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html

Nuke program parts unearthed in Baghdad back yard

(CNN) -- The CIA has in its hands the critical parts of a key piece of Iraqi nuclear technology --parts needed to develop a bomb program -- that were dug up in a back yard in Baghdad, CNN has learned.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/25/sprj.irq.centrifuge/

And BTW:

Quote :

"Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade and much of his nation's wealth not on providing for the Iraqi people, but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, and the missiles to deliver them. The United Nations weapons inspectors have done a truly remarkable job, finding and destroying more of Iraq's arsenal than was destroyed during the entire Gulf War. Now, Saddam Hussein wants to stop them from completing their mission. I know I speak for everyone in this chamber, Republicans and Democrats, when I say to Saddam Hussein: You cannot defy the will of the world. (APPLAUSE) And when I say to him, you have used weapons of mass destruction before. We are determined to deny you the capacity to use them again."

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/01/27/sotu/transcripts/clinton/index2.html

Bill Clinton, 1998 State of the Union Address

But all this is not really the point. I was mainly pointing out more UN incompetence.

8/31/2007 11:26:17 AM

Quote :

"1. There is no doubt that Saddam possessed and used on humans a number of deadly chemicals."

You mean like when Saddam used them on Iran with the US turning a blind eye to it, and perhaps even encouraging it?

8/31/2007 11:37:17 AM

I couldn't find the needle in the haystack, therefore there is definitely not a needle in the haystack and it also wasn't moved to Syria before the inspectors came

8/31/2007 11:38:07 AM

Good analogy, except based on the US Intelligence reports we weren't looking for a needle - we were looking for an Elephant.

8/31/2007 11:57:16 AM

an elephant is still pretty small compared to a 175,000 square mile country

and also when a health inspector shows up at a restaurant unannounced, isnt that going to give a more representative sample of how clean the restaurant is on a normal basis, as opposed to giving the restaurant 2 months notice of an inspection?

[Edited on August 31, 2007 at 12:00 PM. Reason : .]

8/31/2007 11:59:17 AM

But not compared to a haystack.

Regardless, we were looking for multiple mobile chemical weapons plants - all sorts of chemical weapon caches.

These are things that don't just disappear - and having worked directly with surveillance intelligence I also know they are things that can easily be found once you have air control over a country.

[Edited on August 31, 2007 at 12:00 PM. Reason : ...]

8/31/2007 11:59:34 AM

an elephant in a haystack, huh...how do you figure that? were we looking for a WMD 1,000 miles long?

Quote :

"and having worked directly with surveillance intelligence I also know they are things that can easily be found once you have air control over a country."

and having common sense, i know anything can be easily hidden from aerial view by covering it with sand/terrain colored tents/tarps/etc

[Edited on August 31, 2007 at 12:03 PM. Reason : .]

8/31/2007 12:01:48 PM

Common sense, okay lets walk through this...

We invade - if they attempt to move anything of the quantity of chemicals that were discussed then we can easily spot them once we are inside the country.

They hide them - now they are stuck there - when they attempt to move them we spot them and we eventually find them if they stay hidden.

Do you really have that little faith in our military? It's not as crappy as you seem to believe. Now, intelligence coming from an agency with a Political agenda - that can be crappy.

Ten years ago during the first Iraq War I could see your argument - Intelligence from imaging and other sources was done almost exclusively through manual searching through thousands upon thousands of imaging cells making up a wide area picture.

Now, these processes are automated with image processing and other techniques.

The country was in such a state of disarray whose Military essentially put up no fight was not capable of moving chemicals or chemical weapons outside of the country on such a large scale without us noticing and finding them - especially with what I'm sure was an incredibly heightened state of intelligence gathering in the days up to and during the war.

[Edited on August 31, 2007 at 12:21 PM. Reason : .]

8/31/2007 12:07:55 PM

Quote :

"For your information, we did find "additional chemical weapons" and a number of other things:"

And your examples are

1) a "suspected chemical weapons factory" found in Mosul 2 years after Saddam's government ceased to function

and

2) centrifuge parts buried in a backyard for 12 years


If you can't see the problems with that, then I don't know what to tell you...other than you're a fucking idiot.

[Edited on August 31, 2007 at 12:19 PM. Reason : ]

8/31/2007 12:17:07 PM

An archival mistake is supposed to demonstrate UN incompetence on a macro level?

We just lost hundreds of thousands of rifles in Iraq. What does that say about us?

8/31/2007 1:12:46 PM

8/31/2007 1:21:53 PM

"DeGaulle has left the game"

HAHAHAHA

8/31/2007 1:32:09 PM

Why did Saddam's troops have chemical protection gear that was made after the Gulf War? Why was this equipment found issued to Iraqi units during the 03 war?

Why did Saddam's troops have artillery shells whose sole purpose is to disperse chemical agents?

How long did Saddam have before the invasion to destroy any chemical or biological agents? (It was apparent we were going in months before we actually did).

We have found everything related to a chemical warfare program except actual chemicals. Why did he have all of that shit? Put two and two together.

8/31/2007 1:49:39 PM

Iraq's chemical weapons found...

IN MY PANTS!

Oh snap, you all weren't expecting that.

PS: While this all is very interesting, it would've been most interesting when posted back when people still whined more about the war being unjustified instead of when they're all whining about wanting to leave.

We leave and we lose.

8/31/2007 1:50:58 PM

Quote :

"Why did Saddam's troops have chemical protection gear that was made after the Gulf War? Why was this equipment found issued to Iraqi units during the 03 war? Why did Saddam's troops have artillery shells whose sole purpose is to disperse chemical agents? How long did Saddam have before the invasion to destroy any chemical or biological agents? (It was apparent we were going in months before we actually did). We have found everything related to a chemical warfare program except actual chemicals. Why did he have all of that shit? Put two and two together."

lol...the times Saddam used chemical weapons was under American supervision and supplied by Americans.

8/31/2007 2:05:06 PM

how come everyone is so quick to point out that we gave them WMDs...yet many of those people seem to think its impossible that he still had some??

8/31/2007 2:09:28 PM

Why do people think that he still had them when we can't find anything that wasn't older than 12 years and buried in someone's back yard for those 12 years.

8/31/2007 2:36:20 PM

why do people think its easy to find a needle in a haystack when we give them months of advance notice before the UN inspections?

i personally think they were moved to Syria as many reports said back in 2003

8/31/2007 3:27:46 PM

Nobody said it would be easy, but...over the past 4.5 years or so we have been unable to locate said 'needle' in an area roughly the size of California despite the fact that we have:

- total freedom of movement
- complete air superiority
- satellite surveillance (and have probably had since at least 1991)
- spent what I'm sure is a phenomenal amount of money and resources on intelligence
- access to military personnel and scientists who would have been involved
- access to government records

How long of not finding stuff will it take for some people to realize that they aren't there?

[Edited on August 31, 2007 at 3:48 PM. Reason : ]

8/31/2007 3:46:40 PM

Generally, the people who believe that chemical weapons were there,

are the same people who believe that some dude walked on water 2000 years ago.

They don't need silly things like facts or logic in order to form or defend a belief.

8/31/2007 4:38:59 PM

what about the logical fact that just because you dont find something doesnt mean its not there or wasnt there before the UN inspections?

nobody wanted to comment on my restaurant scenario...i guess if a health inspector gives 2 months notice to a restaurant that he's going to inspect the place...and 2 months later he inspects the place and doesnt find any roaches, that means there have never been any roaches in the restaurant

[Edited on August 31, 2007 at 4:43 PM. Reason : .]

8/31/2007 4:43:00 PM

BUT IT CLEARLY MEANS THAT THERE WERE!!!!111

8/31/2007 4:49:04 PM

n/m

[Edited on August 31, 2007 at 4:52 PM. Reason : not even worth it]

8/31/2007 4:51:20 PM

^^^By the same token, what about the logical fact that just because you don't find something doesn't mean it's there and you just haven't found it yet?

As a pragmatic matter, at some point you have to either 1) find something or 2) declare that you've made a best effort search and the WMDs are not there. When is that going to happen for you?

[Edited on August 31, 2007 at 4:54 PM. Reason : ]

8/31/2007 4:53:54 PM

^^^the united states gave them chemical weapons...which they used

but its completely out of the realm of possibility that they kept some?

and they couldnt have easily moved them across their unsecured borders during the huge warning period the UN gave them before sending in their inspectors...the inspectors btw who were only allowed to search where saddam's republican guard allowed them to

nice logic

saddam's a pretty good guy after all

^like i said before, i think they moved them to syria, like multiple news sources reported in 2003

i dont buy the yellow cake story or anything like that...but i dont know why you all are so adamant that saddam didnt have WMDs...when you'll admit he had them only a few years earlier

[Edited on August 31, 2007 at 4:57 PM. Reason : .]

8/31/2007 4:55:15 PM

with all our intelligence and satellites and spy planes and spies and whatever the fuck else,

wouldn't we have seen them moving their weapons across the border? i mean, we had pictures of the "facilities" and the "mobile labs" and whatever else. After we found those "sites", i guess we just stopped watching

8/31/2007 4:57:53 PM

Quote :

"wouldn't we have seen them moving their weapons across the border?"

well keep in mind that regardless of what we might've seen, we weren't in iraq to act on what we might've seen until months later after the inspections

but if our satellites caught some convoy of a few trucks headed towards syria...and all the trucks were covered with big tan/sand-colored tarps...how exactly would we know what they were moving?

8/31/2007 5:00:57 PM

um, educated guess?

oh shit, the "mobile labs" we showed the whole world just left the compound. should we follow them? naaahhh

8/31/2007 5:02:56 PM

should who follow them? we weren't in the country yet!

8/31/2007 5:07:39 PM

oh my mistake. i assumed we had all kinds of intelligence in, around, and over iraq monitoring everything going on in the country, ESPECIALLY what was going on at the supposed WMD sites, i mean, we were about to launch a war after all. oh well

[Edited on August 31, 2007 at 5:13 PM. Reason : .]

8/31/2007 5:11:41 PM

and then what? we didnt have any kind of troop presence at the time...this was before the war...a couple months in fact...but if your main argument is that our intelligence is so great how come we cant find usama, couldnt stop 9/11, etc

8/31/2007 5:13:52 PM

trolltwista, were ANY satellite pics of trucks, etc moving to the syrian border made public?

i am not aware of any such pics.

if you want to say they were probably moved to syria, where is the evidence? if there is no evidence at all, then there is no "probably", just a wild wild hunch.

i personally think they were purchased by sarkozy before he became pres. that's my wild wild hunch.

8/31/2007 5:19:30 PM

i dont like talking about american foreign policy with a foreigner who hates america, OEPeethebed11

my "WILD HUNCH" is all the stories and reports that claimed their WMDs were moved to Syria

i dont know the political sway or bias of all of these sources so ill just post a whole bunch of them, since this has apparently slipped your mind in the last 4 years

http://www.nysun.com/article/24480
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:7M7gg7P8YNsJ:washtimes.com/national/20041028-122637-6257r.htm+saddam+moved+weapons+to+syria&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1565627/posts
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/25/wirq25.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/01/25/ixnewstop.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48827
http://news.netscape.com/story/2006/10/16/russia-moved-some-iraq-wmd-to-syria-and-lebanon/
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200212/s753894.htm
http://www.2la.org/syria/iraq-wmd.php

not exactly something i just made up

[Edited on August 31, 2007 at 5:29 PM. Reason : .]

8/31/2007 5:22:10 PM

Quote :

"but if your main argument is that our intelligence is so great"

YIKES.

guess i'll try again. you say saddam undoubtedly had WMDs, and we had photos of the "mobile labs" and "factories", etc... and since we cant find them its highly probable they were moved across the border or hidden somewhere. if that were the case, why don't we have any evidence of it? i mean, we were monitoring EVERY FUCKING THING going on in iraq prior to the war, no? isn't that how we got all those pictures in the first place? did we get the pictures of the sites and then just stop monitoring everything?

8/31/2007 5:25:40 PM

did i just own the shit out of you? oh yeah, i pee the bed... but you suck at life, and like to make fantastic statements without any evidence to back them up. your refusal to answer is proof that your statement that they were moved to syria is a wild hunch, supported by no evidence whatsoever.

Quote :

"trolltwista, were ANY satellite pics of trucks, etc moving to the syrian border made public? i am not aware of any such pics. if you want to say they were probably moved to syria, where is the evidence? if there is no evidence at all, then there is no "probably", just a wild wild hunch."

p.s. if you believe they were moved to syria just because the admin said so, you love to suck bush/cheney/wolfowitz/pearle/etc's dicks, you fascist dolt. oh, you don't buy the yellow-cake story? i bet you bought it and swallowed it wholesale before it was proved to be a lie. i bet you bought and continue to buy all the admin's lies until they are proven to be such.

keep sucking.

8/31/2007 5:30:06 PM

Quote :

"you say saddam undoubtedly had WMDs"

of course cause we gave them to him

what kind of evidence would we have of them moving them? some tire tracks in the sand?

Quote :

"but you suck at life, and like to make fantastic statements without any evidence to back them up"

http://www.nysun.com/article/24480
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:7M7gg7P8YNsJ:washtimes.com/national/20041028-122637-6257r.htm+saddam+moved+weapons+to+syria&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1565627/posts
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/25/wirq25.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/01/25/ixnewstop.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48827
http://news.netscape.com/story/2006/10/16/russia-moved-some-iraq-wmd-to-syria-and-lebanon/
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200212/s753894.htm
http://www.2la.org/syria/iraq-wmd.php

you must have been too busy pissing the bed and missing this story when it came out a few years ago since you think that i am making this up

Quote :

"did i just own the shit out of you?"

no

Quote :

"A special adviser to the CIA director, Duelfer declined an interview request through an agency spokesman. In his last public statements, he told a Senate panel last October that it remained unclear whether banned weapons could have been moved from Iraq. “What I can tell you is that I believe we know a lot of materials left Iraq and went to Syria. There was certainly a lot of traffic across the border points,” he said. “But whether in fact in any of these trucks there was WMD-related materials, I cannot say.”"

[Edited on August 31, 2007 at 5:38 PM. Reason : .]

8/31/2007 5:30:52 PM

Quote :

"what kind of evidence would we have of them moving them? some tire tracks in the sand?"

are you so busy sucking the admin's collective dick that you can't see we are asking for pics of convoys moving to syria? keep ignoring what posters are saying, and keep on going like a broken record.

yeah, so pics were taken of wmd "mobile labs", but when it comes to taking pics of them being moved, suddenly the spy cameras went bad, right?

Quote :

""There is information we are verifying. But we are certain that Iraq has recently moved chemical or biological weapons into Syria," Mr Sharon told Israel's private Channel Two television late yesterday. "

YOU GOTTA BE FICKING KIDDING ME.



WTF, you gonna believe SHARON in this matter????

THAT'S YOUR FUCKING EVIDENCE?????

Yeah, he is a very honest person, and has NO REASON TO LIE HERE.

ISRAEL IS THE REASON the US attacked Iraq in the first place.

That's it, you are a bonafide moron.

Quote :

"“What I can tell you is that I believe we know a lot of materials left Iraq and went to Syria. There was certainly a lot of traffic across the border points,” he said. “But whether in fact in any of these trucks there was WMD-related materials, I cannot say.”""

HE CANNOT SAY.

AND WHERE ARE THE FUCKING PICS????

Wither away, troll.

8/31/2007 5:41:10 PM

do you actually not realize that you are the one trolling here or are you just ok with that? Do you think a lot of exclamation marks and rolly eyes and capitalization somehow help your trolling look like an argument or something?

IF Iraq had WMDs...and knew the UN was coming...the logical move would be to hide or move them...moving them would essentially be hiding them outside of Iraq...so IF they had WMDs, it makes perfect sense to me that they would rather move them than have the UN find them and justify a war with even more US allies against them...but that all depends on IF they had WMDs

but we all agree they did have WMDs since the USA gave them to them, right?

you can feel free to believe what you want, and i'll believe what i want...but if you're gonna just call me names and imply i'm sucking bush's cock, at least don't call me a troll...since all you're doing is trolling...apparently you get really really pissed off when someone comments on how you piss your bed...I guess you shouldn't have told TWW that you piss the bed then...and yeah thats completely irrelevant to this matter but you're completely irrelevant to any argument about US foreign policy since you hate the United States

Quote :

"we are asking for pics of convoys moving to syria?"

How do you take 100% foolproof and convincing photos of something thats covered up in the back of a truck? Do our spy satellites have x-ray vision too?

8/31/2007 6:12:39 PM

Quote :

"How do you take 100% foolproof and convincing photos of something thats covered up in the back of a truck? Do our spy satellites have x-ray vision too?"

I bet your head is 95% skull and 5% brain.

YOU FUCKING IDIOT.

I AM ASKING FOR PICS OF TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS.

I AM SAYING TRUCKS/CONVOYS. ARE YOU BLIND?????

I WANT PICS OF TRUCKS TRUCKS TRUCKS MOVING FROM IRAQ TO SYRIA.

ALSO, WHY WEREN'T THOSE MOBILE LAB SITES MONITORED BY SPY SATELLITES????

Quote :

"yeah, so pics were taken of wmd "mobile labs", but when it comes to taking pics of them being moved, suddenly the spy cameras went bad, right?"

I WANT SOME FUCKING EVIDENCE THAT THE WMDS WERE MOVED TO SYRIA.

For evidence, you give quotes by the following people:

1) US admin
2) Pro-American Iraqis
3) ARIEL SHARON

Yeah, these people are totally unbiased when it comes to Iraq, and are believable, and will absolutely not lie.

8/31/2007 6:28:38 PM

Quote :

"Wither away, troll."

8/31/2007 6:32:09 PM