...the blind.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21112810/

Quote :

"BALTIMORE - Gas-electric hybrid vehicles, the status symbol for the environmentally conscientious, are coming under attack from a constituency that doesn't drive — the blind. Because hybrids make virtually no noise at slower speeds when they run solely on electric power, blind people say they pose a hazard to those who rely on their ears to determine whether it's safe to cross the street or walk through a parking lot. "I'm used to being able to get sound cues from my environment and negotiate accordingly. I hadn't imagined there was anything I really wouldn't be able to hear," said Deborah Kent Stein, chairwoman of the National Federation of the Blind's Committee on Automotive and Pedestrian Safety. "We did a test, and I discovered, to my great dismay, that I couldn't hear it." The tests — admittedly unscientific — involved people standing in parking lots or on sidewalks who were asked to signal when they heard several different hybrid models drive by. "People were making comments like, 'When are they going to start the test?' And it would turn out that the vehicle had already done two or three laps around the parking lot," Stein said. As gas prices continue to rise — along with concern about harmful emissions — hybrid cars are increasing in popularity. New hybrid vehicle registrations grew more than 49 percent nationwide in the first seven months of 2007 compared with the same period in 2006, according to R.L. Polk & Co., an automotive research firm. Toyota Motor Corp. has sold nearly 460,000 of the most popular hybrid model, the Prius, since it hit the market in 2000, according to the company, which pegs total hybrid sales at just over 900,000. Officials with the Baltimore-based National Federation of the Blind are quick to point out that they're not advocating a return to gas guzzlers. They'd just like the fuel-efficient hybrids to make some noise. NFB President Marc Maurer said he received an e-mail from an environmentalist who suggested that the members of his group should be the first to drown when sea levels rise from global warming. "I don't want to pick that way of going, but I don't want to get run over by a quiet car, either," Maurer said. The NFB — the leading advocacy group for 1.3 million legally blind people in the United States — made pleas to the auto industry and to federal and state agencies, with little concrete success so far. On Wednesday, the president of the NFB's Maryland chapter planned to present written testimony asking for a minimum sound standard for hybrids to be included in the state's emissions regulations. But those regulations are crafted by the Maryland Department of the Environment, which has no oversight of auto safety, said Robert Ballinger, a spokesman for the department. He said the department would work with the NFB to press the issue with auto manufacturers and federal transportation officials. Manufacturers are aware of the problem but have made no pledges yet. Toyota is studying the issue internally, said Bill Kwong, a spokesman for Toyota Motor Sales USA. "One of the many benefits of the Prius, besides excellent fuel economy and low emissions, is quiet performance. Not only does it not pollute the air, it doesn't create noise pollution," Kwong said. "We are studying the issue and trying to find that delicate balance." The Association of International Auto Manufacturers Inc., a trade group, is also studying the problem, along with a committee established by the Society of Automotive Engineers. The groups are considering "the possibility of setting a minimum noise level standard for hybrid vehicles," said Mike Camissa, the safety director for the manufacturers' association. ... The blind, however, will have to win over some hybrid owners as well as advocates for reduced noise pollution. Some think that making hybrids louder won't solve anything. "To further expose millions of people to excessive noise pollution by making vehicles artificially loud is neither logical nor practical nor in the public interest," said Richard Tur, founder of NoiseOFF, a group that raises awareness of noise pollution. Others believe that distracted pedestrians are at greater risk than blind people from quiet cars. "The only way to function driving any car, forgetting the fact that it's a Prius, is to just be very careful and see who's around you," said George Margolin of Newport Beach, Calif., who runs a club for Prius owners with his wife. "We have to be as careful as anyone else and perhaps even more so." Blind people are not the only ones who've had close calls. Linda Murphy, 57, a personal administrative assistant from San Marcos, Calif., has 20/20 vision when she wears her glasses, but she's almost been hit twice by hybrids."

10/4/2007 3:02:02 PM

man there is just no way to please everybody. No matter what you do someone will be bitching and someone will sue. Hell; the blind people association is suing Targer b.c Target's website is not "blind friendly."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-10-25-blind_x.htm


I would like to see some reform in all the frivolous lawsuits that occur. By the way what stops a blind person from being hit by a bike. Granted that wouldn't hurt as much but a blind person approaching a freeway would hear the 98% of the other cars zooming by at 55mph. If the driver is paying attention and if the blind person is not just randomly running into the middle of the road then get over it.



[Edited on October 4, 2007 at 3:07 PM. Reason : l]

[Edited on October 4, 2007 at 3:08 PM. Reason : l]

10/4/2007 3:05:35 PM

I didn't think blind people actually walked around by themselves anyway. This is kind of ridiculous.

10/4/2007 3:27:23 PM

^are you serious?

10/4/2007 3:30:01 PM

^^^ I just read that Target Website article, that's some bullshit right there.

10/4/2007 3:35:56 PM

can we have bubb rubb and lil sis make all our hybrids "blind friendly"?

10/4/2007 3:40:37 PM

this was posted a long time ago - can't find the thread tho

10/4/2007 3:41:37 PM

quiet is a civil liberty

10/4/2007 4:00:14 PM

This is dumb.

How about hybrid drivers just watch where they're going.

And if certain places really are experiencing problems with this, just install those chirping crosswalks.

10/4/2007 4:14:37 PM

^wins

10/4/2007 4:18:25 PM

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be legitimately harder for the blind to detect these sorts of cars, but it seems to me that everybody these days wants to bitch about the slightest inconvenience and expect to be catered to.

[Edited on October 4, 2007 at 4:26 PM. Reason : better choice of wording]

10/4/2007 4:25:52 PM

It is an interesting discussion though. Their argument is just as relevant as the electric car, the goal for ridding the world of the current gas-guzzlers (barring a mass transportation revolution). I can't think of a good solution though because one of the things I like about gas hybrids and electric cars is the fact that they don't make noise.

10/4/2007 4:32:12 PM

If they are bold enough to use their hearing to decide whether to walk into a street, then they can listen for the sound of tire friction on the pavement. For most moving cars this is louder than engine noise anyway. I oppose creating artificial noise pollution to dissuade people from stepping out into traffic. Why don't we just take mufflers off of all cars.

Blind people should take necessary precautions as pedestrians, and utilize the tools already available, while drivers should remain attentive.

10/4/2007 4:38:01 PM

It's like "WOO-WOO!"

10/4/2007 4:50:09 PM

First, don't the deaf have dogs to help them cross the street?

Second, this is not as silly as it sounds (pun). On many occasions I have found myself in a car among pedestrians, such as after a sporting event. There are a lot of people to watch as a driver, so it is very helpful for people to hear the engine, if not for safety than just for organizational purposes (clear a path for traffic). Pedestrians, unaware a car is going to pass them are prone to abruptly change direction. While their life is not in danger, walking full speed into a metal wall tends to produce injuries.

10/4/2007 9:09:04 PM

[OLD] this article or one exactly like it was posted AGES ago.

10/4/2007 10:18:31 PM

they should already be up fixin' breffast or somethin

10/4/2007 10:33:32 PM

Hybrid cars pose danger to EMT's

Quote :

"Hybrid electric cars are growing in popularity, with some 200,000 already on the road in the United States. The number is expected to grow to two million in the next five years. Consumers are attracted to them because of fuel economy and environmental benefits, but they present hazards for emergency responders. EMT's are trained to focus on their patients, but hybrid gas/electric cars are creating a new challenge: high voltage. Paramedic Dave Long says, 'These cars are incredibly quiet, so we have to assume that the vehicle is always on and powered up.' Long is leading the charge to train EMT's on how to rescue victims from hybrids without risking electrocution. 'So we're dealing with anywhere from a 144 to over 500 volts. So we have to be very careful during rescue and extrication we don't cut into the high voltage orange cables.' Long fears the sheer silence of the hybrid engine could catch emergency workers off guard. 'Because we can not hear the electric motor. And if we were walking in front during a rescue or emergency or trying to help someone out in the car, the car could roll forward and we would not hear it.' Long's goal is to get responders up to speed on how to turn off the hybrids before the rescue begins, and how to locate the master disconnect switches for various models. Recognizing a hybrid isn't always easy. The Ford Escape, for example, looks identical to its gas-powered counterpart. The same is true for the Toyota Highlander, so labeling is critical. At training seminars around the nation, EMT's are learning to look for those bright orange power cables. 'We know it's an electric vehicle because I see these high voltage orange cables actually coming out of the vehicle.' The demand for hybrid safety training will only rise considering the dealers can barely keep the cars on the lots these days."

http://www.defrance.org/artman/publish/article_1426.shtml

10/5/2007 1:10:13 AM

You're truly in the tippity-top tier of partisan douchebaggery when you hate something like hybrid automobiles simply because the "other side" likes them.

And you've already made a thread about that article.

10/5/2007 9:18:56 AM

^ Man, STFU. I actually might buy a hybrid--for efficiency purposes--if it had enough power and didn't look like a gay spaceship. My "objections" are based on the following:

1. I can't stand self-righteous people who drive hybrids for status reasons: "I'm greener than you are! Nyaaaaaah!"

2. The facts. I do nothing more than point out the facts that--in addition to real concerns from blind people and a number of organizations that represent them--hybrid cars pose a certain level of risk of post-accident electric shock to rescue workers and others and risk of toxic leakage.

Obviously, your hooksaw derangement syndrome greatly intensifies the effect of my comments.

10/5/2007 11:39:49 AM

Quote :

"a gay spaceship"

10/5/2007 12:28:21 PM

10/5/2007 12:31:28 PM

^^ That's a line I heard from a comedian--I can't remember who it was, though.

10/5/2007 12:39:25 PM

Quote :

"1. I can't stand self-righteous people who drive hybrids for status reasons: "I'm greener than you are! Nyaaaaaah!""

Yeah i guess that is a little worse then people who drive the big ass SUV's down the road with the attitude " I have money so spending $200/week on gas does not matter for me"


Meanwhile they are jabbing on their cellphone swerving their big mommy boxes into my lane about to annihilate my civic.
Way more people drive SUV's and luxury cars for status reasons then people driving hybrids to show their hippy green status.
Not that I would every by a prius but at least their "status reasons" actually has practical benefits beyond look at me I have $$$$$.

[Edited on October 5, 2007 at 12:48 PM. Reason : l]

10/5/2007 12:42:09 PM

Quote :

"1. I can't stand self-righteous people who drive hybrids for status reasons: "I'm greener than you are! Nyaaaaaah!""

Admit it, you are blowing the issues with it out of proportion because you don't like it, because liberals like them. Just like if it were something you liked, like a weapon that helped you compensate, you would be willing to pretend the downsides didn't exist.

10/5/2007 12:47:56 PM

GM just announced that their new hybrid tahoe / Suburban will get 21 MPG in city driving

10/5/2007 12:50:59 PM

Quote :

"Admit it, you are blowing the issues with it out of proportion because you don't like it, because liberals like them"

I do not even see how it should even be considered liberal b.c someone wants to save on gas money and own a auto that cuts back on pollution. Is the primary constituents of the republican party really that self-centered, arrogant, and greedy as people like hooksaw & TreeTwista10 make them out to be. This is of course not counting the Christian right who wants everyone to live in peace and harmony in fantasy jesus land.

10/5/2007 12:51:11 PM

Quote :

"can we have bubb rubb and lil sis make all our hybrids "blind friendly"?"

haha

10/5/2007 12:52:16 PM

^^A lot of republicans disagree with liberals about how much auto exaust really contributes to global warming. It's a liberal / conservative issue because liberals like to trump up global warming while conservatives like to downplay the risks and causes. When prominent hollywood activists are frequently trading in their flashy sports cars and bentleys for a Prius, you know it's a "liberal status symbol"

[Edited on October 5, 2007 at 1:08 PM. Reason : 2]

10/5/2007 1:07:36 PM

this almost seems like a story spread BY a hybrid auto manufacturer to show just how quiet their engines are.

10/5/2007 1:16:55 PM

Quote :

"A lot of republicans disagree with liberals about how much auto exaust really contributes to global warming"

yeah that is understandable. I do think green liberals often do over hype the issue of global warming. On the flip side i think it is ignorant and close-minded for republicans to not admit that human CO2 output does not effect the climate. This is about as dumb as people arguing against evolution.

I do not see what is wrong though with people who want to drive a green car. Granted the CO2 reduction from their efforts is not even a drop in a swimming pool compared to global CO2 production

10/5/2007 1:25:22 PM

its at least as much about breaking the cycle of petroleum-dependence as it is reduced emissions.

but in any event, CO2 emissions from automobiles is one of the top contributors to excess greenhouse gas.

one vehicle doesnt make a difference, by itself, but a million vehicles will.

10/5/2007 3:16:28 PM

07 Prius 48city 45hwy
07 camry 21city 31/hwy (chosen as example of very popular car)
07 suburban 15city/21hwy
07 mercedes benz g55-amg 11/13 (worst mileage suv)

(this information is from fueleconomy.gov)

suburban to camery saves 6/10mpg/8avg
camery to prius saves 27/14mpg/20.5avg

Hybrids do take more energy and rare resources to produce though, so that puts some credit to the argument for switching from an SUV to a regular car. especially when you consider that switching from an SUV to a car saves resources, production energy and fuel. Hybrids are still probably good for the environment overall. As for the issue at hand, regular cars are probably easier to rescue people from and less likely to hit blind people than SUVs.

I'm not at any extreem of this issue, just thought I'd put in some information.

10/5/2007 3:19:22 PM

All the fucking problems and issues in the world blind people being hit by Hybrid cars ranks probably near the very bottom of my list in issues that need to be fixed. Below gay marriage; but above brittany spear's lip syncing fiasco, bill clinton BJ scandle, and the nasty smell on the wolfline busses.

10/5/2007 3:29:39 PM

Quote :

"Way more people drive SUV's and luxury cars for status reasons then people driving hybrids to show their hippy green status"

yeah i'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that millions more SUVs and luxury cars have been manufactured than hybrid cars

btw HUR your stereotypes make you sound like a fucking crybaby

[Edited on October 5, 2007 at 3:42 PM. Reason : .]

10/5/2007 3:41:43 PM

Can we just collectively agree to ignore this guy?

What comes from beating him at an argument? Everyone here knows he is barely above dnl when it comes to constructing a thought and posting it. There is no value add at entertaining any of his comments, because the moment you destroy his position (happens in every thread) he'll either shift to something completely unrelated that will inevitably be undermined, or ultimately just resort to insults and other lame attempts at being relevant.

THERE IS NO VALUE ADD IN REPLYING TO HIS TRIPE SHIT

10/5/2007 4:03:58 PM

what?? hooksaw's stereotype that every Prius owner is a treehugging green liberal hippy trying to make an environmental statement is pretty ass also.

Honestly after graduation i'll be one in the luxury car jabbing on the cell. I just do not see how you can make your assertion when a lot of people use their cars to portray a status.

Using hooksaw's logic you could say someone driving a Fearri is trying to make up for their small penis status by having a big horsepowered performance car

Do you guys exchange idiotic messages back and forth through AIM about stupid trolling comments you can make on TWW. Tagteam hooksaw & TreeTwista10 strike again.

Next in the ring we have Golovko & Boone

10/5/2007 4:04:00 PM

^,^^ you guys are just as bad as the people you talk shit to / make fun of / criticize their posts

but you're too dumb to realize it

especially the bald one...HUR i'm assuming this is your first and only screenname, not your 6th or 7th like old State409c up above you

btw HUR this is the particular stereotype i was referring to that i disagreed with

Quote :

"Meanwhile they are jabbing on their cellphone swerving their big mommy boxes into my lane about to annihilate my civic"

there are bad drivers in any type of car regardless of if they're on cellphones or not

[Edited on October 5, 2007 at 4:10 PM. Reason : .]

10/5/2007 4:07:48 PM

^ I actually agree with your point on that issue; I merely wanted to point out that not

Quote :

"every Prius owner is a treehugging green liberal hippy trying to make an environmental statement "

. Yes some people driving a Prius probably are a part of that stereotype. Other people, however, use their car to make "various" status symbols also.

10/5/2007 4:25:57 PM

this is what guide dogs and chirping crosswalk signals are for.

Quote :

"Linda Murphy, 57, a personal administrative assistant from San Marcos, Calif., has 20/20 vision when she wears her glasses, but she's almost been hit twice by hybrids."

get your head out of your ass before you try to cross the street.

10/5/2007 4:46:05 PM

why so much hate?

10/5/2007 6:47:12 PM

Quote :

"Because hybrids make virtually no noise at slower speeds when they run solely on electric power, blind people say they pose a hazard to those who rely on their ears to determine whether it's safe to cross the street or walk through a parking lot."

I am just going to go ahead and say that this is as far as I have read, and I have to say this: FUCKING BRILLIANT! This is better than Ted Kennedy and friends getting their panties in a wad over wind generators killing a couple bats... Hey, blind people: complaining about a lack of ENVIRONMENT CUES? guess what, if you were any other animal, YOU'D BE DEAD RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE EVOLUTION TENDS TO WEED OUT THOSE WHO ARE MISSING THE FUNCTIONALITY OF ONE IF THEIR MAJOR SENSORY ORGANS. Jeez, people...

Quote :

"On Wednesday, the president of the NFB's Maryland chapter planned to present written testimony asking for a minimum sound standard for hybrids to be included in the state's emissions regulations."

I thought we were supposed to make cars quieter. I thought we were supposed to make things BETTER. Making a car that has to make noise is only going to make that car less efficient. Leave it to the gov't to make something less efficient, or leave it to stupid people to petition the gov't to make something worse than it already is...

Quote :

"and risk of toxic leakage. "

I'm trying to come up with a joke about this involving liberals, but I'm too tired right now

Quote :

"GM just announced that their new hybrid tahoe / Suburban will get 21 MPG in city driving "

21MPG? Hey, welcome to 1921!

Quote :

"On the flip side i think it is ignorant and close-minded for republicans to not admit that human CO2 output does not effect the climate."

I know, right? How dare they actually request facts and valid scientific data on an issue that involves climate science. crazy people... How dare they not ignore the single biggest factor in our climate, the sun. I mean, the angle of its rays as they strike the surface causes a huge fucking discrepancy in the amount of heat absorbed. That's the only variation in the sun and earth's relationship that could ever affect climate. Jeez...

10/5/2007 11:42:58 PM

Quote :

"Admit it, you are blowing the issues with it out of proportion because you don't like it, because liberals like them. Just like if it were something you liked, like a weapon that helped you compensate, you would be willing to pretend the downsides didn't exist."

Paul1984

Jesus Christ! Did someone call central casting and ask them to send over a generic liberal?

This has to be one of the worst cases of stereotyping I've ever seen. Un-fucking-believable.

10/7/2007 6:43:41 AM

Quote :

"How dare they actually request facts and valid scientific data on an issue that involves climate science. crazy people."

I guess everyone was right for ignoring Copernicus claiming the earth was round before any actual hard "proof" was found.

10/7/2007 6:46:08 PM

^^and yet you believe it. If I didn't realize that you like being angry I'd spend some more time pissing you off just for fun.

10/7/2007 8:26:31 PM

^ How generically liberal.

10/8/2007 1:44:05 AM

Quote :

"Paul1984If I didn't realize that you like being angry I'd spend some more time pissing you off just for fun"

lol.

you learn quick.







[Edited on October 8, 2007 at 3:46 AM. Reason : ]

10/8/2007 3:30:52 AM

hahaha they made a joke about this on Weeds

U-Turn said he bought a fleet of hybrids for drive-by shootings... cause they are quiet

10/8/2007 6:44:12 PM

They're under attack from a new "watchdog" group. Hahahaha.

10/8/2007 7:02:34 PM

I know, they need to install a thing that makes noise, if someone is in the way and they aren't moving. It could be activated by the driver. Like a button in the middle of the steering wheel wired to a loud electric noise making device in the front of the car. No, this is too crazy to ever work.

10/9/2007 2:41:09 PM