How do you tell the dumbest actress on the set? She's the one sleeping with the writer.

Seems to me that both sides of this quarrel, the Writers Guild of America and the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPT), are hurting their industry.

AMPT leaders claim that they can't set any residual rates for "new media" becasue they have to investigate it more. They say this while they are currently streaming entire episodes of shows replete with commercials online. They say these episodes are only "promotional" and do not qualify for writer's residuals.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind if the airwaves did without the collectivist ideas, for awhile, of a group of people who feel that strikes and unions accomplish more than hard work. Gov't uses its power to force management to deal with unions. Workers should be allowed to withdraw their labor, but management should also be free to hire new workers without the fear of union violence while gov't looks the other way. Gov't should not force owners to "recognise" unions and bargain with them.

Both sides seem pretty dug in..so we may be in for a long haul of "Dancing with the Stars and Becoming America's Next Top Model While Big Brother Watches Us In the Surreal Real Life of the Hills"

11/13/2007 12:42:03 PM

Yep.

11/13/2007 12:50:14 PM

NPR did a thing about this last week. The thing is, one of the writers was complaining that he was spending more time picketing than he ever spent actually writing.

Get over yourselves, seriously.

Of course, since I don't watch TV, I could give a shit.

11/13/2007 1:04:06 PM

I am perhaps more anti-union as anyone, but I also recognize the stark differences between the Writers Guild and other forms of unionization.

This particular labor market suffers from super-stars. As such, when I am making a movie I do not want just any actor, I want <insert name here>. If left to its own devices without a union it will be just like the market for music stars or CEOs: an army of unpaid (or very low pay) toiling away with the unlikely dream of advancement, and a relatively few 'big' names that are paid hundreds of millions to do the same work and are only marginally better at it. This is because the big names are so over paid that everyone wants the opportunity to get noticed by working in the industry, to the detriment of entry level wages.

But by creating a union it can shift this slightly in favor of the 'small' names at the small expense of big names. Similarly, the terms of the union require no violence for enforcement. All members simply promise to never work for a company that employs non-union writers. As such, in order to employ matt groening, which is in the union, the company must also employ only union secondary writers.

A union in this type of labor market really benefits the workforce. This is why, unlike all the others, this union is still prospering.

That said, a work stoppage is a sign that one side is being unreasonable and should be avoided by both sides.

Now, if only we could set up an Alliance of Corporate Employers (ACE). This would allow corporations to collude in order to keep CEO pay down. Of course, such a system would probably backfire as CEOs would rebel against such an imposed system, because unlike hollywood writers, entry level CEO positions are fairly well paid.

11/13/2007 3:33:03 PM

I tend to differentiate between unions and guilds. Guilds are more a skilled group of craftsmen while unions are more a collective of lesser skills that can be learned in a short period of time. So a typical factory worker would be in a union, a welder would be in a guild.

Whether entertainment writers qualify as a guild depends on your opinion of whether they're skilled or not. Based on the type of job though I'd lean toward yes.

[Edited on November 13, 2007 at 3:40 PM. Reason : /]

11/13/2007 3:39:08 PM

Yay for more reality TV.

11/13/2007 3:42:03 PM

^^ Good point. I shall adjust my vocabulary.

11/13/2007 3:50:25 PM

Honestly, with the few quality shows on TV now.... you seriously want more money? This would be like David Carr holding out for a contract extension.

11/13/2007 4:10:02 PM

11/13/2007 4:27:15 PM

Quote :

"I tend to differentiate between unions and guilds. Guilds are more a skilled group of craftsmen while unions are more a collective of lesser skills that can be learned in a short period of time. So a typical factory worker would be in a union, a welder would be in a guild."

you can differentiate anything you want, however you want, but welders have always been, and always will be, in either the Ironworkers' Union, or the Pipefitters' Union. both of which are represented by the AFL-CIO.

in a nutshell: "unions" are for tradesworkers (whether they are skilled, semi-skilled, or unskilled), "guilds" are for artists, "cooperatives" are for farmers.




[Edited on November 13, 2007 at 4:45 PM. Reason : ]

11/13/2007 4:42:21 PM

Quote :

"But by creating a union it can shift this slightly in favor of the 'small' names at the small expense of big names."

The WGA complains that they need the union because 48% of their members are out of work at any one time. With this level of unemployment, seems to me that the market is a bit flooded with writers, and some need to go do something else.

Quote :

"...the company must also employ only union secondary writers. "

Why should a Producer be forced to hire someone he doesn't want to, just to get the person he does?

Some cracks are forming. Some of the Soap Opera writers are giving up their WGA membership to keep their job. Oh, they still have to continue paying the union fees.

11/13/2007 7:17:15 PM

CBS faces strike on a second front

Quote :

"NEW YORK (Hollywood Reporter) - With a strike authorization vote looming later this week, CBS News [emphasis added] is taking its case directly to nearly 500 writers, graphic artists, editors and producers in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and Washington."

Quote :

"The timing of the strike authorization vote could mean more problems for CBS, which is already facing a schedule that is going to be heavily affected by the lack of original comedies and dramas due to the strike by film and TV writers. That would get even worse if it didn't have CBS News to count on to provide more original content. The news division is being asked to produce more original content -- primarily in the form of more '48 Hours Mystery' episodes and perhaps more '60 Minutes' to help fill the gap left by original drama and comedy grinding to a halt due to the writers strike."

Quote :

"The union's main issues are CBS News' refusal to grant retroactive raises as well as a proposed two-tier pay system that would give network and local TV (and network radio) employees a higher rate than local radio employees. The last offer from CBS would have had a 65-month term with no retroactivity and wage increases of 2.2% for the top tier and 1.48% for the bottom tier. The union members have worked without a pay increase since April 2004. Results of the strike vote won't immediately be available Thursday, as not everyone will be voting then. '(It) will be immediately followed by opening the vote to authorize the strike, and because members work 24-7 we're keeping the voting open through Friday afternoon,' said Toback. Results will be announced Monday, a WGAE spokeswoman said."

http://www.reuters.com/article/televisionNews/idUSN1351771220071113?pageNumber=1

And the plot thickens.

11/13/2007 11:22:43 PM

and all because they want to continue to shaft writers on residuals

11/13/2007 11:36:20 PM

^ Yeah, and I'm not a big pro-union guy--but I was in a union once. I actually think the writers should be getting a better deal. I mean, if writing's so easy, one of those management fuckheads like Zucker at NBC could handle it, right?

I truly think the strike could have been avoided with a reasonable deal for all parties.

11/13/2007 11:54:41 PM

Sometimes management does write shows. They call them "reality tv." They pretty much suck.

11/14/2007 12:05:37 AM

^ I thought "good" writing was implied, but yeah.

11/14/2007 12:08:21 AM

Quote :

"I actually think the writers should be getting a better deal. I mean, if writing's so easy, one of those management fuckheads like Zucker at NBC could handle it, right?"

To be fair, no one is ever paid what they are worth. 'wages' are a negotiation between supply and demand. The fact is there are a lot of mediocre writers out there and they all want to work in hollywood. As such, the only way to stem the tide of mediocre writers quitting their well paid jobs as middle managers in offices spread throughout the country, the wage must be low.

Entry-level positions in high-status jobs are always low-paid just for this reason. If they were not then everyone would try to do it.

It is a similar reason why Teachers are often underpaid by any measure (quantity of work, value to society, compared to similar jobs, etc). It is because teaching is viewed as a noble profession and lots more people want to teach than there are positions for them. As such, wages will fall until enough people opt to keep their non-teaching jobs, restoring equillibrium.

11/14/2007 12:52:03 AM

^ Well, since you put it like that. . . .

11/14/2007 1:00:40 AM

^^this isn't about a wage though, residuals imply a quality that goes along with people wanting to see the show again. and hell, the show even making it to a network implies a pretty high quality (compared to the umpteen pilots that never make it to air)

11/14/2007 9:06:35 AM

got this email from a coworker

Quote :

"There seems to be little doubt that the writers' strike will result in a shorter TV season, but just how short are we talking? Well, as you might've guessed, it varies from show to show. Those programs that are either highly efficient (Friday Night Lights) or have entered the season with a backlog of episodes (Men in Trees, Law & Order: SVU) will be in originals well into the new year. But series with tighter production schedules (i.e., nearly every half-hour comedy) will go dark almost immediately. Of course, figuring out how many episodes remain in your favorite shows' arsenals requires a lot of numbers crunching — and as I've come to learn, the only thing you Ausholes despise more than a Wednesday without AA is mathematics. With that in mind, I pulled together this incredibly handy (and 85 percent complete) cheat sheet. Keep in mind: The information below is subject to change, particularly if both sides get back to the bargaining table and resolve this frakkin' thing! 30 Rock: Ten episodes will be produced. Five episodes have aired, so there are five left. Aliens in America: Seventeen episodes will be produced. Seven episodes have aired, so there are 10 left. Back to You: Nine episodes will be produced. Six episodes have aired, so there are three left. Bionic Woman: Roughly nine episodes will be produced. Six episodes have aired, so there are three left. Bones: Twelve episodes will be produced. Seven episodes have aired, so there are five left. Boston Legal: Fifteen episodes will be produced. Seven episodes have aired, so there are eight left. Brothers & Sisters: Twelve episodes will be produced. Seven episodes have aired, so there are five left. Carpoolers: Thirteen episodes will be produced. Five episodes have aired, so there are eight left. Cavemen: Thirteen episodes will be produced. Five episodes have aired, so there are eight left. Chuck: Thirteen episodes will be produced. Eight episodes have aired, so there are five left. CSI: NY: Fourteen episodes will be produced. Eight episodes have aired, so there are six left. Desperate Housewives: Ten episodes will be produced. Seven episodes have aired, so there are three left. Dirty Sexy Money: Eleven episodes will be produced. Six episodes have aired, so there are five left. Friday Night Lights: Fifteen episodes will be produced. Seven episodes have aired, so there are eight left. Gossip Girl: Thirteen episodes will be produced. Seven episodes have aired, so there are six left. Grey's Anatomy: Eleven episodes will be produced. Seven episodes have aired, so there are four left. Heroes: Eleven episodes will be produced. Eight episodes have aired, so there are three left. House: Twelve episodes will be produced. Seven episodes have aired, so there are five left. Jericho: Seven episodes will be produced. None have aired yet, so there are seven episodes left. Law & Order: SVU: Fourteen episodes will be produced. Seven episodes have aired, so there are seven left. Life is Wild: Twelve episodes will be produced. Six episodes have aired, so there are six left. Lost: Eight episodes will be produced. None have aired yet, so there are eight episodes left. Medium: Nine episodes will be produced. None have aired yet, so there are nine episodes left. Men in Trees: Nineteen episodes will be produced. Six episodes have aired, so there are 13 left. Numbers: Twelve episodes will be produced. Eight, so there are four left. One Tree Hill: Twelve episodes will be produced. None have aired yet, so there are twelve episodes left. The Office: Twelve half-hour episodes will be produced. Eleven half-hour episodes have aired, so there is one half-hour episode left. Prison Break: Thirteen episodes will be produced. Eight episodes have aired, so there are five left. (On hiatus 'til Jan. 14) Private Practice: Ten or 11 episodes will be produced. Six episodes have aired, so there are four or five left. Pushing Daisies: Nine episodes will be produced. Five episodes have aired, so there are four left. Reaper: Ten to 12 episodes will be produced. Eight episodes have aired, so there are two to four left. Samantha Who?: Twelve episodes will be produced. Five episodes have aired, so there are seven left. Scrubs: Eleven episodes will be produced. Three episodes have aired, so there are eight left. Shark: Eleven episodes will be produced. Seven episodes have aired, so there are four left. The Shield: All 13 season-seven episodes will be completed. None have aired (the final season gets underway in '08), so there are 13 left. Smallville: Fifteen episodes will be produced. Seven episodes have aired, so there are eight left. Supernatural: Ten to 12 episodes will be produced. Six episodes have aired, so there are four to six left. Ugly Betty: Twelve or 13 episodes will be produced. Seven episodes have aired, so there are five or six left. "

11/14/2007 9:19:20 AM

i'd be surprised if most of those comedies would actually get all of their written episodes produced.

11/14/2007 9:21:09 AM

IF I were a Producer, I would be applying pressure to get Leno, Letterman, Stewart, Colbert et al back on the air. They're getting paid the big bucks...let's see 'em perform. Show the world how truly witty Jon Stewart is without his writing staff. Let's see if Letterman can be more than just cruel. I think Leno could probably pull it off with his lengthy stand-up career.

If these guys would go back on the air, the shows might be a little rough, but that might be entertaining in its own right. And the families of the crews of those shows could eat.

11/14/2007 10:30:39 AM

^ Jon Stewart did stand up for a couple years and has actually been a comedy script writer before himself. I don't think he was supposedly a very good script writer though...

Anyways I think these shows are worried that if they do 2 weeks of bad shows the damage will be worse than a month or two of reruns.

11/14/2007 10:47:30 AM

^^problem is, nearly all of those that you mentioned are members of the SWG WGA

[Edited on November 14, 2007 at 11:00 AM. Reason : .]

11/14/2007 10:48:41 AM

Yeah, most of them expressed support for the strike themselves too. Hell apparently Jon Stewart is partly why any of the comedy central writers are even unionized.

[Edited on November 14, 2007 at 10:52 AM. Reason : ]

11/14/2007 10:51:50 AM

Sucks for all the crew who aren't getting paid shit right now....fuck the casts though, they're overpaid.

11/14/2007 11:01:22 AM

This is one of the best strikes I've ever seen.

The union is causing widespread losses for the networks, the networks really have no leg to stand on because damn near every writer is unionized, and THANK GOD the federal government is actually keeping their fucking noses out of this.

This is a PRIME example of how the system should always work in a free market system. I'm waiting with baited breath for the damn government to chime in though with some retardedness.

11/14/2007 12:16:18 PM

I mean really, who cares?

It's not like this is a critical industry for the US economy. We'll all be better off without the vapid tripe put in front of us every day featuring plastic celebrities who have more botox than brain matter. I only wish the SoCal fires had taken out all of hollywood and beverly hills with it.

11/14/2007 12:26:30 PM

Yeah, I wouldn't really care if the whole industry collapsed in on itself.

11/14/2007 1:01:18 PM

i only like a three or four shows out right now (and only two of them are network shows), but that's enough for me to hope that this is worked out sooner than later.

11/14/2007 1:06:29 PM

I only watch one show. One out of however many shows are out there. A full reboot wouldn't be that much of a risk... then again I wouldn't be able to see how the Cavemen show turns out.

11/14/2007 1:16:36 PM

My neighbor is in SAG and last night we were talking about the strike. She said that the DVD deal that they wanted (from $.04 to $.08) was taken OFF the table at the last minute by the WGA. So I'd say that's the WGA trying to make it right....

11/14/2007 1:39:59 PM

Quote :

"She said that the DVD deal that they wanted (from $.04 to $.08) was taken OFF the table at the last minute by the WGA. So I'd say that's the WGA trying to make it right"

The WGA demands and the studio's concessions were so far apart that the last minute negotiations were doomed to fail. Actually, the WGA went on strike early, while the 2 sides were still negotiating. That fucked up the process more than anything else.

Now every day you've got writers hammering out letters to LA Times with verbose, overreaching opinions about "equitable distribution of profits" and the studio's "draconian stances". Bunch of goddamn socialists out there.

11/14/2007 2:25:48 PM

You all should have seen EarthDogg's reaction one time when I was working for him and jokingly made some comment about wanting to form a union

I might as well have told him that I had his whole family hostage and was going to eat them alive, for how serious he suddenly got.

Started spewing off the legal recourse he'd have in this state to fire us all and shit. It was scary.

11/15/2007 12:40:53 AM

Quote :

"I mean really, who cares? It's not like this is a critical industry for the US economy."

Believe it or not, our economy is fueled by entertainment in all aspects. Removing television and movies from that could have VERY widespread impacts.

Don't forget that the conglomerates that own the major news and entertainment outlets are also directly tied to hundreds of other product and service industries. Tanking entertainment will have an effect on the prices and success of a lot of other arenas.

11/15/2007 12:47:48 AM

Entertainment is one of the top things we export. I've heard from professors before that it's among the top two things we export, though that was a while ago and may have been wrong besides.

11/15/2007 1:00:02 AM

http://community.tvguide.com/blog-entry/TVGuide-Editors-Blog/Strike-Watch-Season/Letterman-Better-Man/800027349

Letterman will pay the staff on his shows through the end of the year. Pretty damn generous.

11/15/2007 10:59:40 AM

^
He's offering to pay the employees of his WorldWide Pants Co. But Is he paying for all of the other NBC employees who are out of work also because of his actions? What about outside companies who supply services or products for the show..Are they getting paid as well?

11/15/2007 5:10:15 PM

The economic impact will be limited to southern california, and not even be as bad as the sub-prime meltdown or the recent wildfires.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/08/BU2ST86DE.DTL
http://www.forbes.com/opinions/2007/11/05/hollywood-writers-strike-oped-cx_smy_1105young.html

The media is just blowing this up because they are tangentially linked to this industry. Fuck 'em.

11/15/2007 5:33:47 PM

The writers of The Daily Show and John Oliver put together a mock episode concerning this issue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzRHlpEmr0w

11/16/2007 1:34:54 PM

He's actually got a new episode running now.

1/7/2008 11:15:07 PM

Quote :

"How do you tell the dumbest actress on the set? She's the one sleeping with the writer. Seems to me that both sides of this quarrel, the Writers Guild of America and the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPT), are hurting their industry. AMPT leaders claim that they can't set any residual rates for "new media" becasue they have to investigate it more. They say this while they are currently streaming entire episodes of shows replete with commercials online. They say these episodes are only "promotional" and do not qualify for writer's residuals. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind if the airwaves did without the collectivist ideas, for awhile, of a group of people who feel that strikes and unions accomplish more than hard work. Gov't uses its power to force management to deal with unions. Workers should be allowed to withdraw their labor, but management should also be free to hire new workers without the fear of union violence while gov't looks the other way. Gov't should not force owners to "recognise" unions and bargain with them. Both sides seem pretty dug in..so we may be in for a long haul of "Dancing with the Stars and Becoming America's Next Top Model While Big Brother Watches Us In the Surreal Real Life of the Hills"

This is a textbook demonstration of libertarian drivel.

To support the writers, you can come up with concrete, quantifiable ways in which the studios are actually stealing from writers. To support the studios, all you could come up with was smoke and mirrors for why some theoretical union is generally wrong.

When the real world presents problems, libertarians present ivory tower rhetoric.

[Edited on January 7, 2008 at 11:37 PM. Reason : .]

1/7/2008 11:36:52 PM

I don't see why writers need to unionize anyway. This seems like it would partially responsible for the copious amounts of crap TV on the air... the shows can't just hire new writers with new ideas without going though some union BS.

1/7/2008 11:40:38 PM

You must be kidding. TV is one of the most dynamic markets that exists. Shows get cancelled after two or three episodes if they don't make the ratings. Writers are not protected from the consequences of doing a crappy job. "Good" shows don't get ratings because of studio mismanagement or terrible audience tastes.


Instead of talking out of your ass about irrelevant theoretical problems, how about talking about the real life situation?

[Edited on January 7, 2008 at 11:59 PM. Reason : .]

1/7/2008 11:55:36 PM

Quote :

"smoke and mirrors for why some theoretical union is generally wrong. "

It's pretty basic. The producers are screwing the writers over internet residuals. And the gov't is screwing over the producers by forcing them to deal with unions instead of letting them hire new writers.

If workers want to join a union..goodie for them. But the owners of the company also should have the right to hire & fire whom they wish.

Let me ask you this. To whom does the job belong to...the person offering the job or the person offering to fill it? It can't belong to both or anyone could waltz into a personnel office and demand a job.

1/8/2008 12:26:19 AM

Ah, the thought experiment -- the only world that libertarians can discuss. I'll humor you.

Quote :

"And the gov't is screwing over the producers by forcing them to deal with unions instead of letting them hire new writers. If workers want to join a union..goodie for them. But the owners of the company also should have the right to hire & fire whom they wish."

Not off to a good start because this is just plain wrong. Producers are free to hire replacements for striking workers. If they choose to deal with the union, they have rules to follow. But at the end of the day, they can hire non-union workers. The freedom that companies have doesn't quite approach the libertarian ideal, but arguing about degrees of idealness is boring and something where you can't substantiate the negative effect.

That pretty much makes your complaint about the government and writers DOA. Did you have a real life complaint where someone is actually getting unduly harmed? You know, something like "the writers guild is anticompetitive, decreasing the quality of the product" or "the writers guild is hurting productivity growth" or "the writer's guild artificially raises prices."

Quote :

"Let me ask you this. To whom does the job belong to...the person offering the job or the person offering to fill it? It can't belong to both or anyone could waltz into a personnel office and demand a job."

Cute, the libertarian 101 tactic of framing the debate as one over property rights. Since this gibberish follows from the incorrect assumption above, it's irrelevant to everything.

If you insist, companies are free to fill their own positions just as workers are free to negotiate the terms of their employment, collectively or not. Surely you aren't foolish enough to tell me that in a market free from any labor laws, workers wouldn't try to negotiate collectively (and that doing so takes property rights that the owner doesn't voluntarily give up)?

Of course, none of this actually applies to the writers versus the studios, but I expected that there would only be a small probability of getting a libertarian to apply his theories to solve a real life problem.

[Edited on January 8, 2008 at 7:22 PM. Reason : .]

1/8/2008 7:15:34 PM

Soooo, anyone here actually affected by this yet? I haven't been. This is actually about the most harmless strike imaginable.

1/8/2008 11:17:22 PM

i've been watching nothing but presidential race and sports

so not really

1/8/2008 11:19:32 PM

Letterman fucking shaved himself on air the other day...if thats not hurting for material i dont' know what is....

1/9/2008 12:41:53 AM

^
But his writers all came back with him. So what you saw was professionally-written comedy material.

1/9/2008 1:27:00 AM