The Liberty Dollar sells gold and silver coins, and there is a network of businesses and individuals who will accept them as payment in exchange for goods and services.

And the issuers have just had their offices raided, and all coins, records, and computers raided by the Feds.http://gordonunleashed.com/blog/2007/11/15/government-monopoly-imposed-at-gunpoint-liberty-dollar-raided-by-the-feds/

And in case any wondered, yes, there is/was a Ron Paul dollar. http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/ronpauldollar

He who has the gold doesn't make the rules, the guy with the guns does.

11/15/2007 2:31:50 PM

Who the fuck would want money with Ron Paul on it?

11/15/2007 2:35:52 PM

I had heard about this before. They've been in lawsuits with the IRS and the feds for awhile. The government and IRS argues the company behind the Liberty Dollars are trying to uproot the U.S. dollar being the exchange mechanism, and that circulating them is a crime. The people behind the Liberty Dollars argue that they're not legal tender and a person can voluntarily use them for barter if they want.

^ The company's claim is its commodity-backed. So you could go to their headquarters, give them the Liberty Dollars, and they'll give you the commodity I think.

It's not much something I'd recommend to a person wanting to invest in commodities. It's more a marketing scheme with a high premium. You'd be better off buying legal tender gold coins from the U.S. government (American Eagles) or other secondhand gold coins with an even lower premium (Krugerrands from South Africa, Maple Leafs from Canada, Gold Pandas from China, etc.)

[Edited on November 15, 2007 at 2:42 PM. Reason : /]

11/15/2007 2:37:54 PM

Police State

11/15/2007 2:42:04 PM

thanks for your input chance. now get the fuck out of here.

11/15/2007 2:46:15 PM

Do not see the big deal. Not like they are trying to pass this as real dollors. What are they going to raid casinos next b.c they exchange US currency for Casino Currency aka chips

11/15/2007 2:57:04 PM

You know, there are these little sentences in Article 1, Section 8 and Article 1, Section 10 that pretty clearly indicates that the Federal government can coin money and regulate the value of it as they see fit.

When I see comments like this:

Quote :

"We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money. But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken."

Quote :

"Since the dollar can’t compete with other currencies and commodities, the government is apparently shutting down it’s competition."

I'm pretty sure they're trying to usurp the standard currency as defined by the constitution.

11/15/2007 3:48:19 PM

Quote :

"Do not see the big deal. Not like they are trying to pass this as real dollors. What are they going to raid casinos next b.c they exchange US currency for Casino Currency aka chips"

Casinos are licensed for that sort of thing.

11/15/2007 3:51:17 PM

They'd be so abundant, they'd become our currency! 20 hot dogs would equal roughly a nickel. Depending on the strength of the yen, I'm not quite sure, but...you know what, I'm getting ahead of myself. Let's just keep praying that we can clone one of these hot dogs.

11/15/2007 3:55:08 PM

Quote :

"I'm pretty sure they're trying to usurp the standard currency as defined by the constitution. "

To be perfectly honest, if the U.S. government is scared of this little outfit and their scheme usurping the dollar, there are bigger problems going on with the state of our economy and the dollar than we previously thought.

11/15/2007 3:56:18 PM

Quote :

"thanks for your input chance. now get the fuck out of here."

Damn, take your own advice you aids infected prick.

11/15/2007 3:57:18 PM

Redguard, do you know of any founders who spoke positively of fiat currency? I'm genuinely curious, because I can't find any. But nobodies like Thomas Jefferson and John Adams warned it was worse than any other pit America could fall into.

It seems obvious that the Constitution expects gold and silver to be used as money, in Article 1 Section 10 it states, "No State shall...make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts."

Now this was just a limitation on the States, of course, but the intent and thought behind it is clear: paper money is bad. They were fine with States making their own policies about money and gold/silver, but they weren't allowed to deviate from that.

You give up a lot of ground in Constitutional interpretation when you completely disregard the intent and advice of the writers of it. Just be aware when you cite the Constitution in favor of paper currency that all the guys who wrote it warned us about you

[Edited on November 15, 2007 at 4:22 PM. Reason : a]

11/15/2007 4:19:04 PM

nowhere in the constitution do i see a proscription against paper currency. i do see a clear and unambiguous mandate for the federal government to regulate all currency.

it doesnt get any clearer. i mean, even the First and Second Amendments are more ambiguous than that.



sorry, but this is a non issue that only stirs up the lunatic libertarian fringe. you know... the Theodore Kaszinsky types.




[Edited on November 15, 2007 at 4:51 PM. Reason : ]

11/15/2007 4:50:21 PM

Legal Tender law only requires you to accept fed money when it is offered. It does not mean you cannot accept something else as payment such as goats, chickens or 98% pure silver coins with pictures of Ron Paul on them.

Speaking of our great dollar, you knw its worth the same as Canadian money? You know that stuff you used to throw away. ....and I hear Monopoly money is also gaining fast on the US Dollar.

11/15/2007 4:57:24 PM

Quote :

"They'd be so abundant, they'd become our currency! 20 hot dogs would equal roughly a nickel. Depending on the strength of the yen, I'm not quite sure, but...you know what, I'm getting ahead of myself. Let's just keep praying that we can clone one of these hot dogs."

winner

11/15/2007 5:04:40 PM

Quote :

"wienner"

[Edited on November 15, 2007 at 6:34 PM. Reason : bad pun and incorrect spelling- I know, I know.]

11/15/2007 6:33:53 PM

i was giving this the ol' only congress can coin money... /thread bit but this is interesting

Quote :

"Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress. No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay."

that could be read in a couple of ways

i'm sure there is legal clarification though

[Edited on November 15, 2007 at 8:05 PM. Reason : .]

11/15/2007 7:59:39 PM

i didn't read the article, but i don't see what the case is against these people.

i mean, i can trade anything else i have for goods and services...why not their gold and silver coins? They aren't imposing them as legal tender.


and you'd think they'd be more concerned about, say, massive DPRK counterfeiting of our currency. if that hasn't totally fucked our whole system, there's no way this will.

11/16/2007 12:55:49 AM

ahahahahah

you took an oath to uphold and protect the constitution

who knew you would end up failing at the "issuing legal tender" part

11/16/2007 11:03:57 AM

^ come on now, thats just weak.

servicemembers dont take an oath to interpret the constitution as they see fit, or to mold it into their foregone conclusions. that's the prerogative of internet numnuts like you and I.

11/16/2007 1:19:32 PM

i would think that that "ahahhahahaha" would be clear indication that I'm just fucking with him

11/16/2007 1:47:31 PM

I would think that the inclusion of myself into the larger group of "internet numnuts" would be clear indication that I'm just fucking with you.

11/16/2007 3:12:24 PM

The way I read the constitution it gives congress the power to coin money and regulate it's value and forbids the states from coining any money and it does this to ensure an even payment system across the US. That is, if you owe NC money and NY money, they both have to accept currency as determined by congress as payment, as opposed to NC declaring that your debt is owed in TarDollars while NY insists you owe them FreedomChips. However, it doesn't seem that the intent was to forbid private citizens from agreeing on a different form of exchange in private dealings.

11/16/2007 3:22:46 PM

I DON'T KNOW WHO'S FUCKING WHO IN THIS SOAPBOX GANG BANG

11/16/2007 4:46:54 PM

Speaking as a person who thinks this liberty dollar bullshit is retarded, I think it's completely unacceptable for the government to act in this way. What law are they breaking?

11/16/2007 8:08:38 PM

one of the super big ones

DON'T PRINT YOUR OWN MONEY

11/16/2007 9:45:20 PM

I'll invest my money in Schrute bucks as a hedge against a weak dollar



[Edited on November 16, 2007 at 11:20 PM. Reason : .]

11/16/2007 11:19:39 PM

Quote :

"Redguard, do you know of any founders who spoke positively of fiat currency? I'm genuinely curious, because I can't find any. But nobodies like Thomas Jefferson and John Adams warned it was worse than any other pit America could fall into."

To me, this is not a matter of whether or not fiat currency is good or bad. This is a matter of who has the authority to create and regulate currency. If you don't like the fact that we're running a fiat currency, then go lobby Congress to change it. If gun nuts, religious zealots, and old people can build political power bases capable of swaying Congress, if a bunch of angry women could scrape together the power base to put banning alcohol into the Constitution, and if fiat currency is as bad as you say it is and everyone knows it, then surely the movement could achieve the gold or silver standard through legal, Constitutional means instead of having to resort to setting up an illegal, unregulated underground economy where people blatantly and openly discuss about how they're attempting to undermine the official, national currency and then claim when the Fed comes knocking that they're no different from the script issued at Chucky Cheese.

Personally, it doesn't matter to me whether the currency is fiat or gold standard, but when a group comes out pretty clearly that they're trying to create an alternate money simply because they don't like how our currency is regulated, I think that steps a wee bit too far.

11/17/2007 2:40:58 AM

Quote :

"one of the super big ones DON'T PRINT YOUR OWN MONEY"

they aren't counterfeiting anything. there's a huge difference.

11/17/2007 6:45:53 AM

they were minting their own coins for use as currency.

the feds blew the shit out of Ruby Ridge and Waco for less than that.

11/17/2007 10:42:32 AM

The hilarious thing here is that now, due to scarcity, the value of these things will fluctuate.

11/17/2007 11:33:16 AM

Quote :

"they were minting their own coins for use as currency. "

Again, they were not making any claim that the coins they were producing were legal tender. And people can still accept whatever they want for payment.

11/17/2007 11:41:58 AM

Quote :

"they were minting their own coins for use as currency."

By your reasoning then the feds will raid chuck-e-cheese next. How about mall gift certificates? Or traveller's checks?

[Edited on November 17, 2007 at 9:10 PM. Reason : ]

11/17/2007 9:10:15 PM

exactly

11/18/2007 12:12:11 AM

n/m

[Edited on November 18, 2007 at 12:25 AM. Reason : ,]

11/18/2007 12:24:52 AM

personally i'm glad that the feds did this...always thought those commercials were shitty and a waste of money...kudos to the government for taking away a useless waste of money

they need to start with plasma tv's and shit next and make everyone drive a honda or toyota

[Edited on November 18, 2007 at 12:51 AM. Reason : and build more nuclear plants]

11/18/2007 12:51:40 AM

YIKES

11/18/2007 1:39:29 AM

Quote :

"Dark Moment for Liberty Dollar I am shocked to inform you that we have learned that the FBI is moving aggressively to forfeit "their" seizure for auction immediately! If that does not shock and alarm you, you are truly asleep! If there has ever been a time to support the Liberty Dollar with an Arrest Dollar and a donation… it is now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

http://www.libertydollar.org.nyud.net:8080/ld/legal/raid.htm

Okay, I added some of those exclamation points. But seriously, this is beyond fucked up. These guys are fucking idiots, but they deserve their rights. DON'T TASEAUCTION ME, BRO!

12/14/2007 3:45:09 PM

At least our troops are protecting our freedom to get harassed and have our rights trampled on by the police and national security agencies.

12/14/2007 4:05:45 PM

That's hilarious that they're now selling the captured precious metals.

Sometimes t3h g0v simply acts like a bunch of thugs.

12/14/2007 7:27:17 PM