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dmspack
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Luda is spitting the truth, guys

Quote :
"I'm not worried about Keatts and recruiting. Herb, Lowe, and Gott all landed top 10 recruiting classes, and I think Keatts can recruit with any of those guys. Give Keatts a couple of years to build relationships and get his system established and he'll be landing highly ranked HS kids. "


definitely...recruiting has never been an issue here. we aren't getting Kentucky level recruits, but we can land enough talent to compete at a high level in the conference. the issue is what it's always been...getting the talent to buy into the system, combine it with good coaching, and getting the best combination of talent that fits together.

as far as Keats building relationships with coaches in-state and in the region...i know he's now recruiting a different type of player than he was at UNCW, but it certainly can't hurt that he's familiar with the state, coached at Hargrave, and is from VA. so he should already have a lot of ties that can pay dividends in recruiting.

Quote :
"But come on, our roster is a bit of a mess with spacing and he got here a little late to land a lot of '17 kids(landing Batts was huge) that could contribute immediately. Adding graduate transfers to make the team competitive this year was a necessity and he's already filling out the depth chart with transfers to make up for Gott's attrition over the years."


the backcourt is looking like it has some real potential in '18-19 but that's basically all we have returning next year. we'll probably have 6 open scholarships, and return (probably) only Hicks in the frontcourt. i'd expect us to be active with grad transfers again next year to fill out the frontcourt with some experience. hopefully after that he can settle into a more regular, traditional recruiting style...not that grad transfers are bad or anything, but it's hard to bank on landing somebody good that will fit into the team style and chemistry at the very last minute each year.

5/30/2017 12:24:37 PM

V0LC0M
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"James Henderson (PPride..)...is predicting SC."


I've come to learn that he doesn't know anything. Seriously, he knows less than most of the "insider" people in this thread.

5/30/2017 12:45:46 PM

BJCaudill21
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Quote :
"Luda is spitting the truth, guys"


Except the part about knowing how many years Bryce will have left

5/30/2017 2:20:56 PM

LudaChris
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Yeah thought Bryce and Daniels both only played 1 year, Bryce played 2 for UNCW, he'll have 2 years remaining after a redshirt year.

Further illustrates Keatts fixing spacing issues. Also think Bryce will be a Lacey type recruit though, that wouldn't shock me if he had a big first season and at least considered his options.

5/30/2017 2:26:04 PM

justinh524
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Bowen to Louisville. BUTTS BUTTS BUTTS

6/1/2017 8:16:28 PM

tower
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Keatts isn't Gott. One would hope an advantage of his hiring is we'll see a decrease in players who leave school early when they have zero shot at playing the in NBA, especially the guy who liked him so much he followed him to his new job.

6/2/2017 3:33:06 AM

LudaChris
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I don't think I've ever seen a recruitment like Bowen's. He changed top 5's so many times and ends up at a school that wasn't even in his first few sets of top 5's haha.

6/2/2017 8:18:44 AM

ncsuallday
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James Henderson from PP may not be right on his picks all the time, but he's definitely very close to the program and to the players. How many of us are able to pick up the phone and call a recruit, call Yow, Keatts, etc.? When it comes down to it, these are 17-19 year old prima donna teenagers that are being pulled in a thousand different directions and it's anyone's guess who they'll actually pick or what they'll do in a given situation.

Remember when we recruited the shit out of Amile Jefferson and it was down to us and Duke? He called Gott that morning to confirm he's coming to State, his mom is literally pulling an NC State shirt out of her purse as he's announcing, and then he goes Duke at the last second?

You just never know with these guys.

6/2/2017 9:21:35 AM

rwoody
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It doesn't really matter on a message board but I feel like Luda is putting ALOT on Bryce.

Seems like Dorn is a better comparison than Lacey. Similar production in a similar conference.

6/2/2017 9:26:11 AM

dmspack
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maybe....dorn averaged like 10 ppg as a freshman then came in and sat a year. bryce was averaging 18 ppg as a soph. so it's hard to say, but you're right...their freshmen stats are comparable. i do think the lacey comparison is being optimistic because lacey had that level of production at an SEC school, not a CAA school. but, without having watched any film, i'd say bryce > dorn based on reputation and such. but lacey > bryce also. but i don't really know what i'm talking about, either.


^^i think the problem is when people put too much emphasis on what Rivals or Scouts moderators/analysts say and predict. sometimes recruits just don't tip their hand about which way they're leaning...other times recruiting can change at a moments notice so a recruit may be leaning toward State today and Duke tomorrow. yes, those guys are well-connected and know what they're talking about...but you maybe shouldn't take their predictions so seriously. while those guys definitely know their stuff, predicting where a kid will commit to is still pretty hard when you're reading between the lines on his comments or his actions (where and how often he's visited certain schools) and everything else.

[Edited on June 2, 2017 at 9:41 AM. Reason : f]

6/2/2017 9:40:34 AM

ssclark
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Well that and the fact that dorn sucks. Hopefully he made strides in the offseason

6/2/2017 10:04:22 AM

justinh524
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I don't think Dorn sucks at all. I think he was a victim of Gottfried's terrible game/player management.

6/2/2017 10:16:48 AM

LudaChris
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Bryce did it against Duke and UVA too though, it's not like he didn't play in the NCAAT and play well. I mean Lacey was definitely a higher profile recruit out of HS than Bryce, but Bryce had a bunch of schools calling him for a reason, he's going to be physically ready to play right away with a year working with our guys and he already knows the system.

I was simply comparing him to a fresh out of HS kid as far as being a recruit. I also think he has a more clear-cut position than Dorn and more experience/production. The Lacey comparison was more about being an established scorer, experienced, and physically ready to make an impact day 1. Like I said, he knows the system better than anyone on our team and has proven to play well in it.

I can agree Lacey is more of a ceiling as far as year 1 impact, but I honestly don't see his floor being Dorn. Maybe I just saw more of UNCW playing than Charlotte.

6/2/2017 10:19:01 AM

V0LC0M
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Quote :
"I don't think Dorn sucks at all. I think he was a victim of Gottfried's terrible game/player management."


this x 1000

All previous judgement about our players should be completely forgotten until we see them under Keatts. Gottfried always had an issue with playing the right players in the right positions and utilizing their skill sets. I do not believe that Dorn is a bad player by any means. I would have said the same about Dez Lee, who Gott completely ignored towards in his senior season.

6/2/2017 10:23:59 AM

rwoody
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Quote :
"Bryce did it against Duke and UVA too though, it's not like he didn't play in the NCAAT and play well. "


Bryce had a pretty bad game vs UVA.

Bryce played 4 power 5 schools in 2 years and averaged 11/4/1

Dorn played 6 his frosh year and averaged 9.5/2.5/1.5 plus 1 stl


[Edited on June 2, 2017 at 11:42 AM. Reason : Dorn ppg last year: 9.5]

6/2/2017 11:36:57 AM

ssclark
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UNCC 32games 27 mpg 50%fg 34% 3pt. 65%ft. 12 ppg

NCST 32games 24 mpg 50%fg 36% 3pt. 68%ft. 9.5 ppg


I mean... I'm not sure what impact you think Gott had on him since he was the EXACT same player as the year before, other than irrational blame of course.

6/2/2017 11:51:07 AM

synapse
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Quote :
"I don't think Dorn sucks at all. I think he was a victim of Gottfried's terrible game/player management[/player development]"

6/2/2017 12:32:20 PM

LudaChris
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I think the problem is Dorn looked great early in the season but then fizzled against good competition. I don't think it was so much Gott punishing him, I just don't think he was as effective when he played better competition. People just assumed he'd keep those numbers up when the competition got better and instead he struggled and caught some pine.

It reminded me of the Kapita deal where his first game he dominated and people got all hyped up and then he was flat his second game. I think the new system will work well for Dorn, because last season he really seemed like a guy that was searching for a role on the team and never really found his spot.

6/2/2017 12:33:01 PM

ssclark
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ok

6/2/2017 12:37:11 PM

rwoody
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You realize charlotte and State play diff schedules right? And that Dorn played a different role at State?

6/2/2017 12:44:26 PM

dmspack
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Quote :
"
I mean... I'm not sure what impact you think Gott had on him since he was the EXACT same player as the year before, other than irrational blame of course."


you would expect a player to make significant strides between his freshman and sophomore year. especially since he had an entire season off to improve/workout in between. instead there didn't seem to be a significant jump. he played well against shitty teams in OOC and generally played not good in ACC play. he played well enough OOC to think he has real potential. but i think a combination of up and down minutes (no rhythm) and increased competition level hurt Dorn last year.

isn't the fact that he was the exact same player, like you say, 2 years later kinda an indictment of Gott in and of itself?

[Edited on June 2, 2017 at 12:50 PM. Reason : v]

6/2/2017 12:47:43 PM

ssclark
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Definitely a reasonable argument

6/2/2017 1:04:58 PM

rwoody
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I haven't seen you make a single reasonable argument that he "sucks". Youve argued he hasn't improved much since his frosh year, but he still averaged almost 10/5 w/out having his stats padded by 25 games vs mid majors.

6/2/2017 2:31:22 PM

ssclark
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I was agreeing that saying "he didn't improve" is a reasonable argument that gott was holding him back. I wasn't being sarcastic. I was agreeing.

6/2/2017 3:57:52 PM

rwoody
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But nobody argued Dorn was significantly better than mediocre. In fact I think I first brought him up a lesser comparison for Bryce. You are the one that decided to say he "sucks". I'd rather have him than another Kirk, thats for sure sure.

Also, who is "hanging their hat" on this team? Keatts is making do with a tough situation and most of us realize that. Most have predicted another pretty bad season this year.

6/2/2017 4:06:14 PM

ssclark
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Quote :
"I do not believe that Dorn is a bad player"


Quote :
"I don't think Dorn sucks at all."


Quote :
" I do not believe that Dorn is a bad player by any means."


Quote :
"I think the new system will work well for Dorn"


was all in response to "he sucks." I do think he's bad. I guess you could argue that "not bad" is not "significantly better than mediocre" but I think that's being pretty fucking pedantic.

Quote :
"
Also, who is "hanging their hat" on this team? "
I think you read too much into that statement. I, too, think we'll struggle. I'm not sure how you're arguing with me with that statement as I haven't said anything to the contrary. I must not have been nearly clear enough in my point. I take it all back

Quote :
"most of us realize that. "

Until we lose a game in November and tdub erupts into demands to hang KK in effigy. You've been here long enough to know how this works.

6/2/2017 4:12:46 PM

justinh524
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Quote :
"dude couldn't separate himself statistically from Mavrick Rowan"


yes, yes he could. literally the only thing Rowan did better statistically was shoot free throws. Dorn was better in pretty much every other category (including 3 point shooting.) But yet, amazingly ROWAN PLAYED ALL THE GODDAMN TIME. Just like he played over both Martin twins the previous season. just like kyle washington got benched for unknown reasons. Gottfried made terrible, mind bogglingly awful decisions on who to put on the floor.

This isn't even taking into account the fact that Dorn knows how to play some semblance of defense while Rowan was often seen guarding no one in transition leading to wide open looks.

I'm not saying Dorn is a goddamn all-american, I'm just saying don't hold this year against him when he got benched for the coaches pet.

6/2/2017 4:17:23 PM

rwoody
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I guess I'm just curious the border between "sucks" and doesn't suck. I'm reading it as he is terrible and in competition for worst on the team/acc. Maybe Im misunderstanding your usage?

Ways other than "sucks" you could describe him that many wouldn't argue:
Disappointing
Not ACC starter quality
Not 6th/7th man for a good ACC team
Stagnant in development

If he was still at Charlotte, he'd prob be their #1. That seems like a few levels above "sucks"

6/2/2017 4:40:10 PM

ncsuallday
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Dorn will be great, especially in this system. Gott said that he was the hardest working guy on the team - came in early, stayed late, etc. Practiced by himself in the gym in his spare time. He's a grinder.

I feel like he couldn't play with confidence because he knew if he made any mistake, he'd get yanked and the few minutes he did get would be divided up even further.

It's kind of like what we saw with Tyler Lewis and Zo. Clearly, Zo was the guy we wanted on the floor but we didn't give Tyler much room to develop. When Zo got hurt and he was the only choice (besides Purvis lol) he played with way more confidence.

I liked Rowan but Gott had a boner for the kid that didn't really make sense and it really hurt Dorn's development.

6/2/2017 5:45:53 PM

JP
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Keatts still looking for ballers

Quote :
"@GoodmanESPN SWAC POY/Texas Southern grad transfer Zac Lofton (16.8 ppg) told ESPN has heard from NC State, Gonzaga, S. Carolina, Pitt, Nevada, Ole Miss "

6/7/2017 8:46:02 AM

rwoody
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5 schools, 5 years. Checkered past apparently.

Worth a gamble for one year i guess

6/7/2017 4:34:25 PM

rwoody
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Jaime Lewis visiting today, deciding Thursday bw us, Wake, GT and Baylor

Rivals 4*, #70, pg

6/7/2017 5:49:39 PM

dmspack
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He's a pg btw

6/7/2017 7:43:43 PM

PackGuitar
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http://247sports.com/Player/Jamie-Lewis-86032

6/7/2017 8:16:51 PM

rwoody
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^^I'm assuming you just missed it, but my post said that

6/7/2017 9:06:05 PM

natureboy
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Good, because what we need is ballers!

6/7/2017 10:03:07 PM

dmspack
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^^haha yeah i totally read right over that part.

6/8/2017 7:35:24 AM

rwoody
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Decides at noon, apparently strong to us but for bad reasons, no offer from others bc of injury worries.

6/8/2017 11:24:19 AM

dmspack
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^yeah i read that baylor and maybe wake too have pulled their offer due to his injuries.

hopefully he can get past his injuries

6/8/2017 12:03:51 PM

DonMega
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scout.com has him as committed

[Edited on June 8, 2017 at 12:20 PM. Reason : ]

6/8/2017 12:17:42 PM

ncsuallday
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Awesome get

6/8/2017 12:18:15 PM

dmspack
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sweet. hope he gets healthy. our back court should be plenty deep in 2018-19...although i guess it remains to be seen how good some of those guys will be. Markell, Daniels, Bryce, Batts, Dorn, now Lewis. and looking toward the future, that's a good distribution of ages/classes. for '18-19, that would be one senior (dorn), two juniors (markell, bryce), two sophomores (batts and daniels) and a freshman (Lewis). seems like a good balance there

[Edited on June 8, 2017 at 12:50 PM. Reason : f]

6/8/2017 12:36:34 PM

face
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Now we are talking. Keatts is dope

6/8/2017 12:51:37 PM

spencer
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Kiara Leslie (CJ's younger sister) is coming to State from Maryland as a grad transfer

6/14/2017 5:34:49 PM

ohmy
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Jairus Hamilton visited a couple days ago. Would be a huge get. A buddy of Jamie Lewis.

6/14/2017 6:03:34 PM

dmspack
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Seems like we're in good shape with him ^ but I read that he's not really in a hurry to make a decision either

6/14/2017 8:36:52 PM

jocristian
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I was too lazy to find the Gottfried thread, but Mark Titus from the Ringer (also played for Ohio St.) was throwing some serious shade at Gott on the Bill Simmons podcast today while talking about Dennis Smith. He basically said he knew State would be terrible this year even despite DSJ and Yurt because they were terribly coached. Anyone know his history with Gott or was he just looking at the same coach we all did over the last 5 years?

6/19/2017 4:49:39 PM

ssclark
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who the fuck is that guy?

6/19/2017 5:38:57 PM

death cab
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he was a bench warmer on ohio state during the greg oden/mike conley to evan turner years. Started blogging during his senior season and parlayed that into a sports media career. I don't think there's any connection to Gott

6/19/2017 10:46:00 PM

synapse
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Wait was Gott not a turrible coach at the end there?

[Edited on June 19, 2017 at 11:28 PM. Reason : ]

6/19/2017 11:26:21 PM

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