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Sandman
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sweet, locking in a 11th ranked class in the ACC

2/1/2017 3:43:04 PM

TreeTwista10
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A hire I'm 100% in support of. Please be patient while he rebuilds. TOB will have left him with very little

2/1/2017 5:19:07 PM

Jrb599
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I have not followed recruiting - but wasn't this suppose to be a small class?

2/1/2017 5:56:12 PM

rwoody
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Signed a last minute JC DL, Larrell Murchison. Rivals has him at 3*

2/1/2017 6:07:31 PM

ssclark
Black and Proud
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https://www.dawgnation.com/football/recruiting/source-indicates-uga-pulled-the-offer-for-3-star-dt-larrell-murchision-on-tuesday-night

2/1/2017 6:10:06 PM

dmspack
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^^^yeah a bit.

we took 20. looks like we took 23 and 22 in '16 and '15. and then 31 in '14.

Wofford grad transfer picked UGA by the way. not sure of specific other targets, but we can still go after grad transfers. i'm sure another name will pop up

[Edited on February 1, 2017 at 6:22 PM. Reason : d]

2/1/2017 6:20:11 PM

JT3bucky
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looks like Georgia stranded him.

Thats a big boy, big pickup if that happened, he had offers from ole miss, georgia and texas

2/1/2017 6:21:26 PM

ncsuallday
Sink the Flagship
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ESPN #51 class

What have we been in recent years?

2/1/2017 10:26:20 PM

dmspack
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i dont have the espn subscription so i'm not sure what we've been on espn.

but from rivals

2017: 53
2016: 44
2015: 36
2014: 30
2013: 46

definitely not setting the world on fire by any stretch

2/2/2017 7:48:05 AM

Doss2k
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When you can't rely on talent you have to rely on better coaching... welp.

2/2/2017 8:32:55 AM

jocristian
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Quote :
"Never thought I'd dream for the Kiker years."


Please tell me you are joking. I could have kicked better than that kid. By the end of the year, we were going for it on 4th and 5 from the 10 because we couldn't trust his ass to make a chip shot. We would go for 2 regularly because he would miss extra points. There has never, and likely will never be a kicker at state worse than him.

2/2/2017 8:49:33 AM

justinh524
Rowan Hater #1
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Quote :
"There has never, and likely will never be a kicker at state worse than him."


There has, his name is Kyle Bambard.

2/2/2017 9:11:19 AM

LudaChris
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Our class ranking has a LOT to do with the fact that's overall it's just a small class. We didn't need to recruit any immediate starters, we're just filling out the depth chart and taking guys that our staff saw a ton of potential in.

I still think a few of our guys should have been 4* players but weren't for various reasons. Ingram was on track to be a 4* and was a top 10 player in NC before he committed to us in his Jr season and didn't bother attending any recruiting events. The 3* JUCO DT we picked up last minute yesterday had offers from UGA, Ole Miss, and Texas, so I'm guessing he can play. I mean look at a guy like Nick Smith, our staff found him as a 3* early, got him committed, then people saw his senior highlight film and his recruiting exploded late. I think we're going to have some really solid contributors out of this class.

I think the fact that Nielsen and Ledford were really excited to land the guys they wanted, should tell you a lot, those 2 guys are killing it and if they're excited about the potential of these guys, we should be too.

Next year's class will be larger from a numbers standpoint, but we'll have to see what we can do on the field this year to help with that class. But we already have a 4* and All-American K in the 2018 class, so heck of a start, and we have a 4* QB visiting this month.

2/2/2017 9:16:50 AM

rwoody
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We took 20 players. Not huge but hardly "small."

The fact that we don't need players to contribute immediately is irrelevant, these guys will need to contribute, probably in 2018.

Also the 2 examples you used are terrible, UGA pulled dude's offer and Nick Smith isn't going to State.

We missed on alot of big targets this year. Losing Hodge is huge too, great player at a weak position.

2/2/2017 9:51:26 AM

justinh524
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jocristian for future reference:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/kyle-bambard-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/adam-kiker-1.html

2/2/2017 9:56:17 AM

jocristian
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Maybe I just remember Kiker's suckage more because I went to most of those games and we were actually good during those years. We lost some prime Rivers games because of that hack. I actually get mad just thinking about him shanking it.

2/2/2017 10:01:36 AM

Doss2k
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Quote :
"We didn't need to recruit any immediate starters, we're just filling out the depth chart and taking guys that our staff saw a ton of potential in."


I mean I get what you are saying here but in reality if you are a 6-6 team I would say most starters positions should be up for grabs if you can find someone better.

2/2/2017 10:09:33 AM

LudaChris
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Losing Hodge was hardly our fault though. The kid didn't qualify, he would have gone JUCO for 2 years and then potentially not ended up at NC State anyway. We were still in the top 5 for Nick Smith but we went ahead and swapped a 3* OLB for a 3* OLB and his 3* OG teammate, and Ledford loved the OG because he's a monster in run blocking, so he'll have a RS year to get bigger and battle for Adam's spot.

Also, some of the analysts were saying Hodge wasn't going to physically be able to stay at LB without quite a bit of body change, think they were expecting him to switch to safety either ways and he'd have been redshirting this year.

But what starting spots do we really have to offer up outside of maybe K and CB/S?

DL - 4 seniors with starting experience(Chubb, Hill, Jones, Street) plus a junior with starting experience(Roseboro).
LB - 2 seniors with starting experience(Moore, Fernandez)
DBs I'll agree we have some PT available, but I believe Ingram is a 4* level player that just didn't get recruited because he shut it down so early, just like Tony Adams who was a 2* and has been a 3-year starter for us. Had we known we were losing Josh Jones in the secondary we might have made it a higher priority, but I doubt many saw him leaving early.

OL - Returning 4 of 5 starters from our bowl game, plus 2 reserves that have started games.
QB - Picked up a 3* QB that isn't 18 yet that has a ton of upside and is a dual-threat. We have 2 QBs with starting experience, so not likely a true FR was winning the job.
TE - Picked up 2 good TEs, one is already on campus and getting great reviews, but both will RS and we're set with Samuels, Moss, Cook, McKever.
WRs - Returning 3 guys with starting experience and an all-freshman team WR, so 4 guys with plenty of playing experience plus some RS guys that have gotten great reviews.
RB - Ok, we could potentially have landed a 5* player to take the job, but I think the staff really likes Gallaspy and Nichols, plus we landed a 3* RB and 3* ATH(was recruited like a 4* at DB by big programs but is adamant on playing RB) that our staff is excited about but wouldn't bank on either playing this year.

Outside of K, there is literally no guaranteed starting spot we could offer up to a kid out of HS. When you have a 2 or 3 year starter that you've struggled with and they've turned the corner, this is what we suffered a couple of years for. Our D was awful 3 years ago, a little better 2 years ago, actually fairly good last year, and I think expectations are that our front 6(since we run a 4-2-5) are going to be really, really good this year.

Unless you're a top 15-20 program, you aren't getting 4* and 5* players that are willing to Redshirt. I mean Alabama just got a top 100 4* DE that is GRAYSHIRTING(WTF??), but most teams don't have that luxury. I think that's the misconception about 5* vs 3*, I always look at 5* as a difference-maker as a true FR, and 3* as a guy that can contribute on some teams as a FR but has potential to get better. Amato use to target just high ranked guys, he didn't care about ability, and frankly some of our biggest commits the last 5-6 years ranking wise haven't lived up to the rankings outside of maybe Roseboro and Hines.

Look at our DL:
Street - 4*/5*. Roseboro - 4*. Hill - 3*. Chubb - 3*. Jones - 3*. Frazier was a 4* that RS last year.

Chubb was a 3* because he was converting from LB to DE. I've already seen mocks with him going in the 1st round next year. Street was a 4* DE that has flipped positions and is likely going to be 2nd string to start the season behind Chubb and Roseboro.

Look at some of the guys we picked up this year.
Kante - went to a prep school, grew from 5'11" to 6'4" with a 6'11" wingspan, talk about upside.
Brown - has only played a year of football and was a 3* player, the guy is super athletic, once again, plenty of upside.
Johnson - was seeing his recruiting pick-up heading into Jr season, tore his ACL, fell off, recruiting was slow coming off injury and picked up late after this senior footage went out, plenty of upside there.

When you don't have a starting spot to offer, you have to look for guys with upside that can use a year or two in your S&C program, and I think our staff actually did a good job focusing on that.

And Murchison seems like the guy that ends up being a steal. He had offers from Ole Miss, UGA, and Texas. He was committed to Ole Miss, they went over on numbers and elected to take the younger guys over the JUCO, UGA was already over and was pulling offers from their silent commits as late as yesterday, so he had to scramble. I don't blame the kid for that, I think Ole Miss screwed him over and we were there to help him out. He'll probably RS this year and be competing for a starting job next year with us losing potentially our entire starting DL this year.

2/2/2017 10:59:32 AM

rwoody
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I'm not sure why you spend all that text showing us that there guys won't start this year, did anyone argue that? Missed doss2k post, still not sure your argument goes against his point.

As for Hodge, I wasn't shitting on the staff just stating it was a big loss to the class.

With Smith, maybe we replaced him with someone as goods are better but you used him as an example to of why our class was underrated and he committed elsewhere.

For Murchison, your evidence that he was underrated was that he had offers from 3 top programs, I said "actually he only had offers from 2", then you come back and say "no, no, no, he only had ONE offer!" you're arguing in the wrong direction.

Your arguments seem to contradict themselves. "our ranking is low bc our class is small and we didn't have spots to offer and all our guys are severely underrated."

Let me try to say what is think you are trying to say:
"the coaches had a tough job this year bc we didn't have many spots to offer and didn't have a huge season, that said I think they took some good chances on some raw talent. I have faith in our scouting to find the diamonds in the rough and coach them up, and in our S&C to turn raw players into chiseled studs"

Fair?

[Edited on February 2, 2017 at 11:29 AM. Reason : Eeee]

Like just post this and leave it at that:
Quote :
"When you don't have a starting spot to offer, you have to look for guys with upside that can use a year or two in your S&C program, and I think our staff actually did a good job focusing on that."


[Edited on February 2, 2017 at 11:33 AM. Reason : Two]

2/2/2017 11:28:19 AM

LudaChris
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It was more just annoyance by people instantly shitting on the class because of a lack of 4* and 5* players and that we don't have a top 25 class ranking wise.

I agree Hodge is a loss, but he's a 3* player that was going to be switching to safety(our next Dravious) and would need a RS year but I'm just saying you can't fault the coaches when they took a chance on a kid and he didn't qualify.

This was a strong class for our depth chart. Next year we'll have some starting spots opening up, so I think we'll have more luck with some higher rated players. I was just pointing out I believe some of our 3* players could have been 4* players if they attended enough camps and such or committed later in the cycle. I'm not worried about class rankings, I'm just glad we got players we wanted early and kept the class together for the most part despite plenty of "Doeren's on the hot seat!" reports going around all season.

2018 class has already started well with a 4* ATH and #1 K in the class(Junior All-American, pre-season Senior All-American, they don't rank K's over 2* but he'd be a 5* K if they did). We just need an 8-9 win season and really think 2018 could be the recruiting class that helps Doeren over the 6-7 win/season hump.

2/3/2017 8:46:44 AM

packboozie
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Quote :
"There has never, and likely will never be a kicker at state worse than him."


Kiker was a Groza award semi-finalist. People shit on him for a few really badly timed misses.

Bambard just always sucked.

2/3/2017 9:15:55 AM

Jrb599
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2017 recruiting moral victory champions

2/3/2017 9:16:50 AM

Lionheart
He's dead Jim.
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^^Yeah after I posted that I went and actually looked at the stats and it wasn't nearly as bad as I remember.

Bambard isn't even in the same lea to Kiker.

2/3/2017 9:36:54 AM

packboozie
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Quote :
"NC State freshman cornerback J.J. Givens and junior linebacker Ford Howell are no longer on the team."

2/3/2017 11:26:26 AM

dmspack
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Sounds like Howell leaving was injury related...and he's graduating this year. dunno about Givens.

2/3/2017 12:20:05 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"I agree Hodge is a loss, but he's a 3* player that was going to be switching to safety(our next Dravious) and would need a RS year "


Every scouting report I read had him as the best pure LB on our list and much more ready to contribute immediately at LB. I guess we can check Marshall's roster next year (will never know the RS question i guess)

2/3/2017 4:46:04 PM

dmspack
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Remember Jacobe Clement decommitting earlier in the year? a few pages back this was posted in response to some saying it was a mutual parting of ways and nothing to worry about.

Quote :
"We lost him to better schools, that's what it was.

He saw we were struggling and knew he could play at a big time school.

Tell it like it is."


Quote :
"lol mutual parting.

[Edited on September 19, 2016 at 3:47 PM. Reason : DD got ddumpedd]"


well it's interesting to see that he remains unsigned. looks like we took somebody over him and he didn't have any fall back options. sucks for that kid...but that's recruiting, i guess.

2/3/2017 5:37:03 PM

GenghisJohn
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Quote :
"We just need an 8-9 win season"


lol plz

2/3/2017 7:08:57 PM

LudaChris
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^We were literally an average kicker from having 9 wins this year, and a dropped pick from having another win. Not that far-fetched given how many starters we're returning and some of the attrition in the ACC.

Hodge is almost the exact same size as Josh Jones, he'd be a Safety in our scheme unless he bulked up quite a bit. Not saying he couldn't, but he needs to put on 20lbs to be the same weight as our starting MLB in Moore right now. And based on the reports from Scout, it sounds like Acceus was ranked just as high as Hodge and the guys on PP believe Saunders has the most upside at LB and that Hodge was more likely to end up changing positions if he landed at NC State.

I would have loved to have Hodge, and had he picked another school over our school I'd have been disappointed, but the kid couldn't make the grades, so I'm fine with it.

2/3/2017 8:17:27 PM

GenghisJohn
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cool, you mentioned some extremely specific scenarios regarding FG not made and picks dropped

you do realize that next season we also could have situational issues occur that lose us games right? Not even the same situations! Different ones!

we could have also lost more games if some specific things didn't happen

crazy, i know

edit: not to belabor the point, but just as we were literally an average kicker away from 9 wins (lol), we were figuratively an unhealthy/graduated matt dayes away from not winning 6

fuck it, lets belabor this point

Quote :
"We just need an 8-9 win season and really think 2018 could be the recruiting class that helps Doeren over the 6-7 win/season hump"


i just need a million dollars to get over this not having a million dollars hump


[Edited on February 3, 2017 at 10:13 PM. Reason : please dont tell me about how he won 8 games in his second year after winning 3 the year before]

2/3/2017 9:58:58 PM

LudaChris
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^I was pointing out that "8-9 win season" isn't completely out of the question, and I think my points were valid as a 30-yard chip-shot FG would have put us an 8-win season with a win over a top 5 team on the road.

Haha, you can't say "8-9 wins" is a hilarious concept for our team when we had 3 winnable games and we had 7 wins. Obviously we were 1 injury(Dayes is a good example but the better example is Finley) away from being an awful team, and I didn't say us having 5 wins was a hilarious concept either. You were the one pointing out that it's hilarious to believe we can win 8 games.

Me saying we were "literally" a good kicker from 9 wins...that's a provable fact.
Clemson - obviously we know that story, we missed a 30-yard FG with no time left that would have 100% been a win.
ECU - we lose by 3, we miss 2 FGs...obviously the game could have played out differently if we made the FGs, but still, leaving 6 points on the board and losing by 3, that's a winnable game with an average kicker(not talking about 50-yard FGs here).

We finished 7-6, that's 2 winnable games cost by missed FGs, that puts us at 9-4. Obviously other games(like ND) could have gone other ways, but my point is valid, we were a solid kicker from 8-9 wins, which I think is the "next step" for our program.

I definitely understand how dumb my comment about an 8-9 win season getting Doeren over his hump of a 7 win season sounds...but it's valid. Doeren built the team to have a big year last year and next year, obviously last year we showed improvement but fell short of taking the next step(just the Clemson win would have accomplished this), so the 2017 season is huge. The recruiting for 2018 is going to be significant given how many starters we're about to lose, definitely need to show growth(6 wins last year, 7 wins this year, 8 wins next year, etc) and use that to improve in our recruiting to keep building momentum for the program.

2/4/2017 11:30:09 AM

dmspack
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I agree with luda here. I know everybody hates DD and that's fine. But we really have a great shot to get over this hump this coming year. We return almost everything from a top 25 defense. Aside from dayes, we don't lose much offensively. Not hard to see a scenario where we're a fringe top 25 team in 2017 and finish 8-4 or something like that

2/4/2017 6:17:17 PM

JT3bucky
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A sophomore commited. ATH...supposedly one of the fastest kids in the country.

2/7/2017 12:12:25 PM

rwoody
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[old]

Lol you even posted about it
message_topic.aspx?topic=508086&page=200#16406409

[Edited on February 7, 2017 at 1:00 PM. Reason : Last week called... ]

2/7/2017 12:54:34 PM

Maverick1024
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Late to this thread, but a few things...

Boozy is right about Kiker. The guy was not a bad kicker at all, he was just un-clutch as hell. Smart guy though ... i think he's an engineer now.

Anyway -- if Gallaspy or someone steps up at RB this year, we could surprise. I've all but given up on Frasier, but Gallaspy has had some impressive runs. That one against ECU was crazy good. He's not nearly as explosive as Dayes, but he has more power and great vision.

2/7/2017 2:27:57 PM

titans78
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If the line play is decent which it looks like it could be I think we have guys that can hit the hole and generate yards. Maybe they won't make 3 guys miss and take it 70 yards, but with the players available it shouldn't be the reason we don't win games/move the ball on offense.

2/7/2017 2:36:02 PM

Bullet
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Isn't it a little early to give up on Frasier? He was considered one of the best running backs in the country coming out of high school, with offers from Alabama and almost every other elite program. He was only a redshirt freshman this year, and only got limited playing time. I'd think he still has plenty of time to improve. Or are you afraid his shoulder injury will permanetly hinder his performance?

2/7/2017 2:53:22 PM

V0LC0M
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Frasier has specifically had issues with learning the playbook, injuries, and his weight but I wouldn't give up on him at all.

[Edited on February 7, 2017 at 2:56 PM. Reason : playbook isn't entirely his fault as we've changed OCs]

2/7/2017 2:55:42 PM

dmspack
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Quote :
"Anyway -- if Gallaspy or someone steps up at RB this year, we could surprise. I've all but given up on Frasier, but Gallaspy has had some impressive runs. That one against ECU was crazy good. He's not nearly as explosive as Dayes, but he has more power and great vision."


between gallaspy, nichols, and frasier...and even hines or jaysam getting carries...i think we'll have a good stable of backs. maybe not the singular workhorse we had last year with dayes. but the stable of them should be pretty solid and effective for us

2/7/2017 3:16:44 PM

JT3bucky
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Ooops. I did post about him...

So I hear the DL coach is gone though...yikes.

2/7/2017 6:54:27 PM

LudaChris
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Nielsen was being interviewed each offseason, we either had to promote him to DC or he was gone eventually, he was up for the assistant of the year 2 years in a row now. He'll do well with the Saints.

Doeren has been pretty good at hires lately, so I'm going to give the new guy from Texas Tech the benefit of the doubt. Apparently he was a top 25 recruiter in the country a few years ago and was only at Texas Tech for 1 season and their fanbase is pretty disappointed to lose him.

2/8/2017 9:07:23 AM

LudaChris
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How can you not be pumped about a DL coach that once got in a fight with The Rock?

"Johnson’s frustration at not being an impact player boiled over one day after practice, when he was heckled by his friend and fellow linemate Kevin Patrick. “I was always running hot because I wasn’t getting the playing time that I thought I deserved,” says Johnson. “The truth of the matter is Warren Sapp was just a better player, but when you’re young, you can’t see that. Me and Kevin were in a coach’s office, and he was talking s—, as always, but this time I just lost it. It was like a movie fight—the desk got turned over, stuff was flying all over the place. We spilled out onto the weight room floor, still going at it. He wouldn’t stop talking, so I decided to pull his tongue out. I stuffed my big ol’ hand into his mouth, and I had a couple of fingers around his tongue, but it was so damn slippery! I was quite serious about pulling it out, but I couldn’t quite get a hold of it. Eventually I gave up, the fight ended, and two minutes later we were hugging each other. It was so dumb.”

2/8/2017 9:47:39 AM

dmspack
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just got a commit for QB Devin Leary. 3* on most sites, 4* on scout from NJ (DD seems to be getting several guys from there). looks like he's the top QB in NJ, fwiw.

[Edited on April 6, 2017 at 4:23 PM. Reason : d]

4/6/2017 4:21:40 PM

V0LC0M
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http://www.scout.com/college/football/recruiting/story/1768833-watch-4-star-nj-qb-devin-leary-commit

[Edited on April 6, 2017 at 4:31 PM. Reason : #19 QB]

4/6/2017 4:30:58 PM

themayor
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Thats big time

apparently we're using crap like this now to recruit players:

4/7/2017 9:49:31 AM

justinh524
Rowan Hater #1
15688 Posts
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SECURE THE BAG

4/7/2017 10:18:30 AM

rwoody
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Heh I saw that too, anything that to stand out I guess


I also had to google "secure the bag," I guess I'm old. Wonder if a bag of money is the best symbol to use for ncaa recruiting.

4/7/2017 10:18:49 AM

HOOPS SHALOM
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what in the fuck is up with that dude's face man.

4/7/2017 10:26:09 AM

themayor
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#broccoli

4/7/2017 10:31:10 AM

rwoody
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^^based on the 2 or 3 things I googled, I think it's safe to assume anything that seems weird seems that way bc we are all old


Edit: yep, here


[Edited on April 7, 2017 at 10:42 AM. Reason : And "secure the bag" is Lil uzi vert]

4/7/2017 10:38:49 AM

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