i know most of you don't care but i do since i plan on sticking with windows mobile phones.

http://microsoft.blognewschannel.com/archives/2008/01/06/exclusive-windows-mobile-7-to-focus-on-touch-and-motion-gestures/

1/13/2008 6:44:28 PM

looks like their crossing an iPhone and vista and somehow that's the only tech development that doesn't give me a boner

[Edited on January 13, 2008 at 6:49 PM. Reason : misspelled liek]

1/13/2008 6:49:02 PM

OMG NEW!

oh wait...apple already came up with the whole touch and motion interface.

1/13/2008 7:13:42 PM

well thats alright too, just as long as i can get it without having to buy an iphone and become an att customer

1/13/2008 7:19:41 PM

iPhone is awesome.

AT&T not so much. But then again every service provider around here sucks. So i'd rather have a cool phone and shitty service than a shitty phone and shitty service.

1/13/2008 7:24:04 PM

alltel is not shitty at all.

1/13/2008 7:24:45 PM

I've got an Alltel phone and a Verizon phone and both work great. My cousins boyfriend bought an iPhone and switched to AT&T and can't get coverage hardly anywhere. But he's got a cool phone! OMFG so much better than my HTC phone and such great reception, where do I sign up to switch?!?!?

1/13/2008 8:15:38 PM

also apple didn't "come up" with the touch and motion interface

1/13/2008 8:26:08 PM

^^^ inorite...alltel FTW

^^ hah, pretty much

1/14/2008 9:42:17 AM

Hmmm, if the HTC Tilt is compatible with this, it would be pretty baller.

1/14/2008 9:46:57 AM

that article and comments were hilarious

1/14/2008 10:18:54 AM

again, microsoft enters the game 1-1/2 years too late and wants to come across as innovative by copying another companies good design

1/14/2008 11:33:40 AM

^ and i thought using beatles references were just for Apple
it's gonna be funny when M$ starts naming windows versions after cats, too

1/14/2008 11:43:38 AM

^^ but who the hell wants a gay ass iphone that has shitty reception an HORRIBLE coverage areas. i have stood my by windows mobile phone and it has not let me down yet. i support them wholly and pretty much am glad to see this, and not only that, even if it is a year or two 'late' who really gives a fuck, and its not like we could not live without it.

1/14/2008 3:42:28 PM

to be fair, half the problem is shitty GSM in the first place...the other half is a shitty iphone (as a phone)

1/14/2008 4:19:48 PM

shitty is shitty no matter how it whats it shitty

1/14/2008 4:27:28 PM

Quote :

"^^ but who the hell wants a gay ass iphone that has shitty reception an HORRIBLE coverage areas. i have stood my by windows mobile phone and it has not let me down yet. i support them wholly and pretty much am glad to see this, and not only that, even if it is a year or two 'late' who really gives a fuck, and its not like we could not live without it."

i sure don't, i'd rather have an iPod touch and a phone of my choice with a network of my choice.

and i'm NOT saying they shouldn't do it, that i'm not happy to see it, or that we couldn't live without it.

all i'm saying is that to come across as innovative, you need to have a) an original idea, and b) be the first one to the market with it.

1/14/2008 4:34:02 PM

iPhones every where else in the world don't experience shittyness because they are on solid networks.

don't blame the iphone for 1) ATT's shortcomings 2) verizons narrow minded business plan.

[Edited on January 14, 2008 at 5:14 PM. Reason : asdf]

1/14/2008 5:13:39 PM

^^, ^ who the fuck cares. i am a windows mobile fan, and i have not proclaimed anything about this being innovative. they, as in ms, might claim it, but personally i don't care. i mean just because xbox came out after playstation i should not have bought one because it wasn't an original idea to build a gaming console, right?

1/14/2008 5:21:11 PM

as long as it's better, then i don't care either, this just seems to be a running pattern:

vs. Apple:
OS X -> Vista = FAIL
iPod -> Zune = FAIL (albeit getting better)
iPhone -> Windows Mobile 7 = (???)

vs. Sony:
Blu-ray -> HD DVD = FAIL (ok, this one's a stretch )
PS2 -> Xbox = FAIL (120M to 24M)
PS3 -> Xbox360 = SUCCESS (5.5M to 17.7M)

that's all... i have to say this does look promising though

[Edited on January 14, 2008 at 6:33 PM. Reason : .]

1/14/2008 6:32:29 PM

oh i get it. you are saying ms products are completely shit and should be avoided at all cost? classic blu boy behavior, while real men accept any technology if it is great, but just have preferences. i just prefer ms products over apple or sony products. this is not to say that they make horrible products, i only call the iphone shitty because of att (if alltel carried them i would have one), i just like ms, plain and simple.

1/15/2008 8:04:05 AM

Quote :

"OS X -> Vista = FAIL iPod -> Zune = FAIL (albeit getting better)"

Vista beats the pants off of OS X in sales (the metric you seem to be using to determine a winner in the other comparisons).

Coming into the end of the year the Zune had a 3% share in the entire mp3 player market and a 10-12% share in the hdd(non-flash) mp3 market and is climbing... MacOS has a 7% desktop OS share and is climbing. Why is one a failure and one a success when the former has achieved basically the same successful results in a shorter period of time?

Besides, Apple can pick and choose its battles with Microsoft. They have the luxury of not catering to global use and multitudes of hardware vendors. The Gizmodo interview with BG touched on this pretty well.

Quote :

"OMG NEW! oh wait...apple already came up with the whole touch and motion interface."

Nintendo's motion-sensitive controls were not new by any stretch but they still server their purpose in the market.

I was excited about what was going to be unveiled but was actually disappointed with the end result. I was hoping they would go more the home theater route: unveil new cinema displays/TVs and that the AppleTV "2" would be more robust too (more in line with an HTPC). If they didn't go that route I was hoping for more of a UMPC/Tablet than the Air, like something about 2-3 times the size of an iPhone. I guess I will have to wait another year before I give my money to Apple.

[Edited on January 15, 2008 at 11:00 PM. Reason : moved to macworld thread]

1/15/2008 10:43:05 PM

you didn't understand the original argument, i wasn't calling one an overall success or failure, i was merely just referring to the action of taking a product, copying it, and trying to market it to the same audience as the original, at least OS X didn't have customers begging to downgrade, and I did say the Zune was getting better, the original didn't do too hot until the price cuts before gen2

TWW is notorious for taking something and skewing it the opposite direction

1/15/2008 11:37:12 PM

Quote :

"Vista beats the pants off of OS X in sales (the metric you seem to be using to determine a winner in the other comparisons)."

no shit. Considering there are a hell of a lot more PC's out there than there are Macs. This is just logic

1/15/2008 11:39:22 PM

can I play it on a Wii?

1/16/2008 12:09:52 AM

Quote :

"all i'm saying is that to come across as innovative, you need to have a) an original idea, and b) be the first one to the market with it."

Then by your definition Apple isn't innovative either. They havent been first to market with anything they do, nor have they ever really had an original idea.

I don't disagree that MS is playing catchup here, but really, its silly trying to compare originality or market timing when neither company is a first to market player.

Quote :

"you didn't understand the original argument, i wasn't calling one an overall success or failure, i was merely just referring to the action of taking a product, copying it, and trying to market it to the same audience as the original"

Windows Mobile doesn't hit the same market or audience that the iPhone does. It's a platform, not a retail product. It's not being copied either. Maybe some of the interation model is, but that's about it. And multi-touch and gestures have been around for years before the iPhone.

[Edited on January 16, 2008 at 3:47 AM. Reason : .]

1/16/2008 3:44:42 AM

you're right, different market, but it's the same implementation, and while touch and gesture have been around a long time, the iphone was the first to implement it in a smart phone, the windows mobile will be the second. the application of the technology is the same.

from the article:

Quote :

"It is, absolutely, Microsoft’s effort to beat back the iPhone, and the iPhone is referenced several times in the document."

with the ipod they were the first to bring a single touch interface to the mp3 player market, a design that others are STILL copying... i wasn't talking about the first to create an mp3 player or the first to create an OS... whether it's as simple as a click wheel, or just the visual "look" of an OS, there are aspects that other's imitate that are distinctly apple.

i do understand your points though

[Edited on January 16, 2008 at 11:20 AM. Reason : .]

1/16/2008 11:19:49 AM

^you seem to forget the first three generations of the iPod. the "single touch interface" iPod wasn't until the 4th generation of the hardware and almost 4 years in the market.

And no one is copying it because Apple owns the patents. Much like no one is copying the iPhone, because apple holds the patents.

Quote :

" the iphone was the first to implement [gestures] in a smart phone"

Actually Palm was. It was called graffiti.

The IBM Simon (1994) was the first to have a fully finger-touch screen.

The Onyx (http://www.synaptics.com/onyx/) was the first phone with multi-touch. Multi-touch devices have been around since 1982-1983 though in a multitude of devices and purposes.


Apple's success has never had anything to do with being technology innovators, its been in usability and integrating the RIGHT technologies at the right times in the right form factors for the right markets. Their success is in synthesis, not original concepts.

1/16/2008 11:07:17 PM

sorry when i said "single touch interface" i meant the "click wheel" which the "wheel or circle, AKA the simplicity part" seems to show up on a LOT of mp3 players (along with the interface, the small size, the screen, etc, etc.) i know they didn't have the original ideas for any of this probably, but once they brought it together, a lot of the pieces were then imitated.

Quote :

"Apple's success has never had anything to do with being technology innovators, its been in usability and integrating the RIGHT technologies at the right times in the right form factors for the right markets. Their success is in synthesis, not original concepts."

that's exactly my point though, is that once they do it right, everyone tries to imitate them, i never meant people OUTRIGHT COPY them, but they take their ideas, modify it so they get around the patents and release something their own that is MEANT TO LOOK/ACT as CLOSE as they can to an apple.

sorry for my poor choice of words, but you do you honestly think that the windows mobile 7 ISN'T trying to take some of those "synthesis" ideas and "imitate" them DO you?

Quote :

"Windows Mobile 7 will use touch gestures, similar to how the iPhone does. You will be able to flick through lists, pan, swipe sideway, draw on the screen. A lot of emphasis has been put on making navigation easier and doing away with scrollbars, including a new scroll handle that allows for multiple ways of finding items extremely fast."

Quote :

"The Touch-only devices are specifically referenced as “iPhone compete”."

Quote :

"There were plans to implement the Soft Input Panel (the on-screen keyboard) as a finger accessible portion of the UI (like the iPhone does), but it was cut for Windows Mobile 7.[/b] [quote]There would need to be support for gestures when the device is locked, including slider control, which hints at a similar locking mechanism to the iPhone. It will also support changing screen orientation when turning the device sideways, just like the iPhone does, but using the camera, not a gyroscope."

Quote :

"The interface is simpler and much nicer, with just an address bar and go button, the web page is a desktop version, just like on the iPhone"

Quote :

"The iPhone’s lock screen is an iconic part of the device, and Microsoft wants to have a cool lock screen without copying Apple, so the plan is to give you fun things to do on the lock screen."

Quote :

"When using the keyboard, the letter enlarges and appears above your finger when you hit it, just like on the iPhone."

I guess my point is this, they are always the first one to have the successful "synthesis" of ideas, and lots of people then try to imitate that

[Edited on January 16, 2008 at 11:52 PM. Reason : .]

1/16/2008 11:33:44 PM

I can regurgitate every comparison you made to everything done in windows and MacOS as being copied from xerox

Quote :

"sorry for my poor choice of words, but you do you honestly think that the windows mobile 7 ISN'T trying to take some of those "synthesis" ideas and "imitate" them DO you? "

Yes, I can say almost without a doubt that they are not "imitating" the iPhone. Will there be some similarities? Yes. Will they be "because the iPhone does it that way"? Absolutely not.

I'm not really at liberty to go further into any of it, but I will say that the "leaked" information has a WHOLE lot of personal interpretation on it.

1/17/2008 12:04:39 AM

steve jobs = the modern day henry ford

1/17/2008 12:22:38 AM

Henry Ford saw the future in cars for the ordinary man, developed new production techniques(assembly line), delivered a product that changed the way we live. Ford revolutionized transportation the way Gates/Microsoft revolutionized the personal computer... he brought it to the people. The Windows PC is the Model-T. I would say Steve Jobs is more like a Ferdinand Porsche.

Also, I could have sworn the LG Prada was the first all touchscreen phone. I know there were pictures of Prada units before the iPhone was announced at MacWorld.

1/17/2008 1:21:25 AM

steve jobs is definitely not a modern day ford.

1/17/2008 1:46:33 AM

More like Jim Jones.

AMIRITE mac fanbois?

1/17/2008 7:21:32 AM

this is not directly related to this discussion, but a couple years ago I read a nice commentary comparing Steve Jobs to Bill Gates.

For years, Bill Gates has been talking about "digital convergence" and "the platform" and all that stuff. Back in the 90's he was giving speeches about how in a few short years, everything in our houses would be wired and "smart" and talk to each other. Your refrigerator would email you when you're out of milk, you would stream content from your phone to your TV, you would control your house lights via the internet, etc. His point was, Microsoft would provide the platform for all this stuff to occur. we're almost 15 years into the internet revolution, and for the most part, his visions have not been met, and his speech has not changed, but the ubiquitous "in 3 to 5 years ____" remains.

Steve Jobs, however, doesn't talk about what could be, he does. He doesn't get up and go on and on about how great our lives will be in the future when all things digital can talk to each other using some obscure or complicated platform, he simply delivers products that do it instead.

The same could be said of Google now that used to be said about MS. Google releases Andriod, which is a platform that give other companies the potential to make great smart phones. When Windows Mobile 7 is released, there is the potential for others to make great phones. Apple doesn't release a platform - they just made the damned phone themselves, and you can get it now instead of waiting for the platforms to be released.

Obviously there are pros and cons to each approach. Platforms are great in a lot of circumstances, and they allow greater interoperability and help prevent monopolies and such. But as far as actually getting products into the hands of people who want to use them now, Apple is the company that delivers.

1/17/2008 7:42:42 AM

i really don't understand all of this bitch talk in this thread. this thread is for lovers of windows mobile devices, and to rejoice a new os for our devices. who the fuck cares about what the fuck bill 'sees' or what steve 'does' or who released a technology first or last or at any fucking time? this shit is totally irrelevant here. if you don't like windows mobile you should not even be posting here. gtfo with the bitch talk and go ghey up other threads with your technical knowledge.

1/17/2008 8:32:41 AM

all comparisons aside, it does look promising, using the camera to detect movement like shaking, etc. seems pretty slick, and thank goodness they are using animations and transitions like the iphone to help spruce up the windows mobile experience, this is exactly the direction they need to be heading.

let's just hope the product/service providers are open to third-party apps and customization and don't charge 99 cents for converting an pre-owned mp3 into a ringtone.

and here's the henry ford quote i was thinking of:

Quote :

"I invented nothing new. I simply assembled into a car the discoveries of other men behind whom were centuries of work...Had I worked fifty or ten or even five years before, I would have failed. So it is with every new thing. Progress happens when all the factors that make for it are ready, and then it is inevitable. To teach that a comparatively few men are responsible for the greatest forward steps of mankind is the worst sort of nonsense. -Henry Ford"

[Edited on January 17, 2008 at 11:05 AM. Reason : .]

1/17/2008 11:00:28 AM

Quote :

"don't charge 99 cents for converting an pre-owned mp3 into a ringtone"

that has nothing to do with Windows Mobile. you're confusing "platform" with "product"

Quote :

"let's just hope they are open to third-party apps and customization"

and again, "open to third-part apps" is basically the definition of a platform.
That's like saying "gee, i hope the next desktop version of Windows is open to applications". Of course it is - otherwise it's nearly useless

[Edited on January 17, 2008 at 11:02 AM. Reason : .]

1/17/2008 11:01:42 AM

you're right

^^better?

[Edited on January 17, 2008 at 11:05 AM. Reason : .]

1/17/2008 11:02:10 AM

yes, and i agree with the overall sentiment too.
unfortunately the technology providers, including device manufacturers, software and platform creators, are usually restricted by the content providers for the content their devices serve.

1/17/2008 11:11:39 AM

I'm just glad that fucking Verizon is going to activate any CDMA phones from any other CDMA company. That way if I want to get a phone unlocked down from the Bluetooth crippling and shit courtesy of bullshit at VZW, I can get a phone that is from Alltel and turn the bitch on with Verizon.

1/17/2008 11:16:59 AM

^yes, me too, i'm up for new-every-two phone, but am debating on waiting til they open it up to any CDMA phones

1/17/2008 11:18:14 AM