Hillary Clinton will lose to John McCain in the general election. Stop voting for her.

2/6/2008 8:53:04 AM

Seconded

2/6/2008 8:54:23 AM

no she wont. Conservatives will simply not vote if mccain wins.

The election is the democrats, hands down. If you make any money, look into overseas accounts.

2/6/2008 8:56:55 AM

I'm going to bttt this thread after the general election.

2/6/2008 8:58:19 AM

^^most of the polls say otherwise

2/6/2008 8:59:27 AM

BUSH
CLINTON
BUSH
CLINTON


FUCK THAT

2/6/2008 9:08:19 AM

Quote :

"Hillary Clinton will lose to John McCain in the general election. Stop voting for her."

2/6/2008 9:15:11 AM

the democratic party is fucked if we can't decide on a nominee soon.

2/6/2008 9:27:42 AM

Quote :

"no she wont. Conservatives will simply not vote if mccain wins."

If mccain wins the nomination, I'm not voting. Most of my conservative friends (20-35 yrs old) have shared the same mentality. It's the older crowd of conservatives (40+) that are still willing to vote for McCain. Not a scientific poll, but something to take into consideration.

2/6/2008 9:29:41 AM

Quote :

"The election is the democrats, hands down. If you make any money, look into overseas accounts."

Very patriotic.

I'm sure you make up for it by supporting the war more fervently.

2/6/2008 9:33:26 AM

^^im with you. I didnt vote in 06 bc I thought the republicans did nothing and deserved what they got. I was not pleased with their performance so I couldnt bring myself to vote for them. I will not vote for mccain and have the guilt that I helped ruin this country. Amnesty will happen with mccain, there is no doubt in my mind.

No, its big govt that drives people to put THIER OWN MONEY overseas. You think the majority of money goes to war? LOL, you probably do. Its entitlment spending, and its about to get a whole lot bigger. We are over 60% now of the budget, cant wait to throw in universal healthcare and millions of illegals on top. Then there is the free college education to everyone who want it.(obama last night). Hillary's 5k for being born, 10k college fund for everyone. Doubling federal spending to black colleges. There will be no other choice than to raise taxes significantly for those making any money, or the "rich". Because "they dont need it." Ah, gotta love socialism.

But you kids keep voting on emotion. Reason is overrated, beside youll probably be taxed for using it soon.

[Edited on February 6, 2008 at 9:40 AM. Reason : .]

2/6/2008 9:34:04 AM

its pretty stupid not to vote because of that tho. As bad as a choice may be, one is still better than the other and youd be stupid to not at least try and keep the worse option out of the White House, even if the one you are voting for sucks.

there shouldnt be any guilt unless you supported that candidate through the primaries. When you vote for president, you arent saying this is the best candidate for president unfortunately, youre saying this candidate is at least better than the other remaining choices in some way.

[Edited on February 6, 2008 at 9:37 AM. Reason : ]

2/6/2008 9:34:21 AM

The people who won't vote for mccain are the same idiots who voted for GWB twice.

So if they choose to sit this one out, I for one, am glad. We don't need people with that kind of voting history shaping this election.

2/6/2008 9:37:36 AM

i voted for bush last time around, because as bad as he has been, Kerry was not the solution.

I supported/support Ron Paul this time around but unfortunately that hasnt panned out.

2/6/2008 9:39:09 AM

conservatives will come out and vote for McCain because they hate anything with the last name of Clinton.

it makes no sense to not vote for one when you dislike the other more, because the other will win and you would fucked.

like most elections, I will be voting for the lesser of two evils.

2/6/2008 9:43:43 AM

Fuck this let Hillary fuck shit up thing that some Republicans are claiming. I think that McCain is the best bet out of the 2.5 candidates left. I really don't want a damn preacher in office (the one that GWBs base is supporting) or the Mormon businessman, so a fucking decorated fighter pilot with personal experience as a POW has a helluva lot more respect than me.

I have heard a lot of moderates/independents saying they support McCain.

2/6/2008 9:45:42 AM

Quote :

"I supported/support Ron Paul this time around but unfortunately he never had a chance in hell that hasnt panned out."

fixed that

2/6/2008 9:45:46 AM

Quote :

"Amnesty will happen with mccain, there is no doubt in my mind."

I saw a poll on the news last night where it said that of all the Republicans they polled illegal immigration came in second as the issues they felt were the most important. Second. Wow. Out of all the things they could have picked. It would probably be somewhere in my top 50, but hey.

Quote :

"conservatives will come out and vote for McCain because they hate anything with the last name of Clinton. "

That's over simplistic. I'm sure some fall in this category but I'd like to think that most wouldn't vote for her for her platform.

2/6/2008 10:09:20 AM

Actually I think Hillary could defeat McCain pretty easily seeing as how she's practically more conservative then he is on almost every issue except national security.

It would just be a boring as balls presidential campaign.

2/6/2008 10:10:28 AM

tilley, Id say illegals are up there for me.

Why do you disagree with that? What would you put before it? Just asking.

2/6/2008 10:11:36 AM

i think no matter what this election is gonna be ~50/50 split


unless a third party candidate comes in and fucks shit up

2/6/2008 10:12:43 AM

Second place?

The economy
The falling dollar
Inflation
Energy prices
The war
Nearly all aspects of foreign policy
Absurd fiscal policies where overspending is simply solved by increasing taxes


But hey, I hate it how the Mexicans come over and help harvest the food I eat!

2/6/2008 10:15:17 AM

Quote :

" like most elections, I will be voting for the lesser of two evils."

2/6/2008 10:15:38 AM

^^ your top 4 all fall in one category.

Just so you know.

2/6/2008 10:18:55 AM

Yeah, I just thought that 'the economy' was a little too general. What about 'the economy?'

2/6/2008 10:20:58 AM

The people who are going to sit out when McCain gets the nomination are the people who are effectively ceeding the Supreme Court to the Democrats for the next 20 years. Stevens, Scalia, Kennedy, Ginsberg, Breyer, and Souter are either all 70, or will be in the next year and a half. If you don't think that the thought of being replaced by a Bush nominee didn't keep folks like Ginsberg, and Souter from retiring, then you've got another thing coming.

Either way, when faced with the choice in November, I feel like a lot of the whiney Romney supporters will hold their nose and vote for the lesser of two evils.

Quote :

"Very patriotic. I'm sure you make up for it by supporting the war more fervently."

I laughed.

2/6/2008 10:21:41 AM

Quote :

"Absurd fiscal policies where overspending is simply solved by increasing taxes "

Well there is my number one. And why I cant vote democrat. Add in allowing millions of illegals to get into entitlements then you have one helluva mess. I coudl care less about illegals if you fixed the entitlment problem and taxes.

2/6/2008 10:23:09 AM

Quote :

"No, its big govt that drives people to put THIER OWN MONEY overseas."

seems like big corp is stuck in a lose lose. They move overseas where they can get cheaper manual labor for the bottom line and you get people bitching here and good Americans laid off who'd be running the white collar and skilled blue collar parts of the company. Or they hire illegal immigrants here for the manual labor shit and you have dumb rednecks bitching about "dey tukk eerrr jerbs"

Quote :

"Add in allowing millions of illegals to get into entitlements then you have one helluva mess."

this is why i hate edwards. he wanted to incorporate illegals into social security eventhough they most likely did not contribute a single cent to payroll tax. Alright you want to come build my deck for $1/hr then i don't care. However, if you are trying to retire then you need to go back to Mexico and have your family/mexican gov't take care of u

[Edited on February 6, 2008 at 10:39 AM. Reason : aa]

2/6/2008 10:25:03 AM

Illegal immigration is a complicated problem with no simple solution. I mistrust any politician that has a dogmatic solution to the issue. Those of you who chose Romney, a consumate pragmatist, over McCain based on immigration policy are probably some of the biggest dupes on the planet right now. Second only to those who flock unquestioningly to Obama.

2/6/2008 10:32:48 AM

The only people who are directly hurt by illegal immigration are low skilled manual laborers anyway. Bet a good chunk are already collecting welfare and instead of getting a new skill/education or searching for a job just sit around blaming the mexicans for taking their job.

Some pundit is going to say "zomg but my taxes pay for their children to go to public school" however most likely you have benefited from reduced costs allowed by cheap labor more than additional taxes paid on these fringe benefits.

[Edited on February 6, 2008 at 10:43 AM. Reason : a]

2/6/2008 10:41:53 AM

Quote :

"seems like big corp is stuck in a lose lose. They move overseas where they can get cheaper manual labor for the bottom line and you get people bitching here and good Americans laid off who'd be running the white collar and skilled blue collar parts of the company. Or they hire illegal immigrants here for the manual labor shit and you have dumb rednecks bitching about "dey tukk eerrr jerbs" "

You can thank our govt for that. I have a patient that is a huge tobacco farmer. He blames our policies for forcing him to use migrant workers. He says it costs him 15/hr for his migrants. He put off going to migrants for years, but the pool of willing american workers went away. Our policies simply provide people with the basics for doing nothing. He said, would you rather get up at 6am and pull tobbacco for 14 hours or sit at home and make a little less? The govt has taken away responsiblity. That was his take on it. Why work, when you dont have to.

Its back to the safety hammock and lack of responsiblity. This is only confirmed by thier elected leaders. Did you take out a loan on a house you cant afford? nope, not your fault. We need to take some money from those who were responsible to help you out. Classic FUBAR reasoning.

2/6/2008 10:42:21 AM

You are right about Americans and the safety hammock v. the safety net which takes away motivation from working. Absurd though is blaming illegal immigration on this though. A lot of the hammock layers are in metropolitan areas where there is no farm. You also ignore a lot of people who have too much pride to even consider going on welfare and will work that labor for marginally increased income v welfare b.c they were actually raised right.

I would say the GOP is just as responsible if not more so for the current magnitude of illegals in this country (that is if you consider it a problem). Besides the christian right; the GOP has been hand & hand with big business over the modern era. What better way to increase profits than to have cheap illegal immigrants come work who will fall in the shadow of wage labor laws. You also have to look at the risk v reward scenario for the avg mexican hopping the fence. There is a demand for $$$ from underemployed mexicans as well as a demand from american corporations for cheap labor.



[Edited on February 6, 2008 at 10:52 AM. Reason : a]

[Edited on February 6, 2008 at 10:53 AM. Reason : a]

2/6/2008 10:50:49 AM

^no, im not blaming ANYONE for working in this country. That wasnt my point. The jobs these illegals are doing are jobs that unskilled americans did for years before simply taking the hammock. The problem lies in what happens when you legalize the illegals and now they have the same option. Overnight, to put millions of additional people on the system is a disaster.

If you fix entitlements this shouldnt be an issue. That is the problem with penalizing the productive to reward the irresponsible. One of the main reasons I support the fairtax. It takes away the incentives to hire illegals or pay off the books, bc there is no income tax. You dont get penalized for working.

2/6/2008 10:55:46 AM

Quote :

"But you kids keep voting on emotion. Reason is overrated, beside youll probably be taxed for using it soon. "

does this mean that when voting, religious faith should be ignored?

2/6/2008 10:58:35 AM

well illegals should not get benefits if they are working "illegally" and not paying taxes.

it is kind of like being a drug dealer. A black market exists b.c of demand for drugs. I can make some good money as long as i stay under the radar. However, if i get attacked and someone takes my supply I can not exactly run to the police.

2/6/2008 11:02:44 AM

Relying on polls is silly. Six months ago, polls said Hillary had the nomination locked up and McCain's campaign was circling the drain. Now McCain's the frontrunner and the Dem contest is still too close to call.

And this has been said a lot, but McCain is 71. Reagan was 69 when he was elected and now people suspect his mind was starting to go in his later years in office. Age was a problem for Dole too. The general election campaign could turn moderates and independents toward Hillary.

2/6/2008 11:02:55 AM

marko, I vote more on issues. Someone's faith isnt even considered for me. I dont think emotions should be either. I like obama as a person, but his issues are WAY out there. He just looks good saying it so people follow.

Hur, I agree. Do you not see the issue if they were instantly made illegal simply from a financial standpoint? Not to mention the fairness to legal immigrants.

using your example, that is why a fairtax would work. You pay when you purchase things.

2/6/2008 11:11:02 AM

I consider the believability of their faith to be important. You want to be Jewish, Christian, Mormon etc...sure why not. You want to believe the Earth is only 5000 years old, fuck you, I ain't voting for your ass.

2/6/2008 11:18:36 AM

^^ not talking about a candidate's faith

talking about voter's faith (as the original quote states 'you kids')...which can be considered emotional and not 'reason'

[Edited on February 6, 2008 at 11:24 AM. Reason : +]

2/6/2008 11:19:43 AM

Quote :

"Hillary Clinton will lose to John McCain in the general election."

I'm actually mostly okay with this.

2/6/2008 11:35:19 AM

Quote :

"Either way, when faced with the choice in November, I feel like a lot of the whiney Romney supporters will hold their nose and vote for the lesser of two evils."

You're right. A lot of conservatives will eventually fall in line. But they won't support McCain financially. Meanwhile, Hillobama will be flush with cash. McCain and Huckabee went out of their way to bemoan Romney's campaign spending. That should have been clue #1 they don't have a prayer in the general election.

Quote :

"The people who are going to sit out when McCain gets the nomination are the people who are effectively ceeding the Supreme Court to the Democrats for the next 20 years. Stevens, Scalia, Kennedy, Ginsberg, Breyer, and Souter are either all 70, or will be in the next year and a half. If you don't think that the thought of being replaced by a Bush nominee didn't keep folks like Ginsberg, and Souter from retiring, then you've got another thing coming. "

McCain would have to pick a fight with Democrats in order to get a conservative justice. Problem is, he's nasty to conservatives in the Senate and buddy buddy with the left wingers. Just look at the Gang of 14 fiasco. If anything he would nominate a "consensus" type like Souter, Stevens, or O'Connor ... somebody who would uphold the Campaign Reform Act. He already said Alito is too conservative. BTW, did you know Warren Rudman is McCain's campaign chair?

2/6/2008 11:58:37 AM

McCain SCOTUS nominees are still >>>>>>>>> Clinton SCOTUS nominees.

Romney wouldn't have any more clout. Hell, Bush has 0 clout in congress and he managed to get Roberts in.

2/6/2008 12:01:09 PM

Quote :

""But you kids keep voting on emotion. Reason is overrated, beside youll probably be taxed for using it soon. " "

Quote :

"That wasnt my point. The jobs these illegals are doing are jobs that unskilled americans did for years before simply taking the hammock. The problem lies in what happens when you legalize the illegals and now they have the same option. Overnight, to put millions of additional people on the system is a disaster."

Do you honestly think this statement is actually reasonable? I think you're using more emotion than reason to assert that we have hordes of people simply "taking the hammock."

2/6/2008 12:14:35 PM

^sure. We already lose money on illegals as it is. When you consider they arent elligible for some services that would be available when made legal, it is a very real arguement.

2/6/2008 1:30:52 PM

Quote :

"You want to be Jewish, Christian, Mormon etc...sure why not. "

ok, even if you're willing to accept generally held Judeo-Christian beliefs to be "acceptable" for public officials, i'm not sure you can clump Mormon into that group. All but the most ardent of evangelical Christians are willingly to admit that much of the bible is allegorical, and it is not to be used as a natural history book.

But, from what I understand, followers of the Book of Mormon accept that book as historical fact. And anyone who accepts the following as fact has some serious judgment issues

Quote :

"The Book of Mormon was first published by Joseph Smith, Jr., the Church's first prophet, in March 1830 in Palmyra, New York. According to Joseph Smith's written account, the book is a translation of the gold plates which contained the writings of many ancient prophets in ancient Meso-America between approximately 600 B.C. and 400 A.D. It is believed to be a record of God’s dealings with some of the ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains the fullness of the gospel. Their words, engraved on gold plates, were quoted and abridged by a prophet-historian named Mormon approximately 370 A.D. The record gives an account of two great civilizations [in the Americas][. One came from Jerusalem in 600 B.C., and afterward separated into two nations, known as the Nephites and the Lamanites. The other came much earlier when the Lord confounded the tongues at the Tower of Babel. This group is known as the Jaredites. After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are among the ancestors of the native Americans, according to LDS scholars."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mormon

2/6/2008 1:32:50 PM

marko, I believe I answered your question.

Im my opinion voting for someone, or not, simply bc of their religion is irrational, unless he states on how they will govern their religion. Then it becomes an issue. I guess if thier religion went against some core values of the US, then I could see that being an issue though. It becomes something other than how a candidate makes you feel at that point.

2/6/2008 1:46:21 PM

do you see "sanctity of marriage" or "reproductive rights" as emotional issues?

2/6/2008 2:43:33 PM

^I consider those issues. As opposed to "I like him, he makes me feel good."

See the difference?

2/6/2008 2:49:36 PM

i think you're trying real hard to separate heart and head when, as a human, you're bound by both

whether you're aware of it or not

2/6/2008 2:54:30 PM

I agree to a point. But many of my dem friends LOVE obama. When I ask him why, they cant give me a firm answer, and certainly dont know policies.

The two examples you mentioned could actually affect laws. I dont care if you believe in santa, but if you are running on a plateform of limited govt and tax reform ill probably support you.

My personal beliefs are I dont mind civil unions and I think limitations on abortions are a good thing. Ive said before the late term abortion ban is sensible as is the morning after pills. Do I feel good about someone having an abortion? of course not, but they should have the right to make the decision early. And as far as gays, I dont care what two adults want to do to eachother. I dont care to watch it, but who the hell am I to dictate what two adults should do in thier private lives? I dont see why the LAWS should be different for a straight couple vs a gay one. I think our govt causes alot of trouble when it discriminates between its citizens.

2/6/2008 3:19:14 PM