http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic-style_diet

idea is that humans are genetically adapted (through natural processes) to a certain set of foods, namely those hunter gatherers were able to find.

Quote :

"This dietary approach is a controversial topic amongst nutritionists and anthropologists. Advocates argue that modern human populations subsisting on traditional diets similar to those of Paleolithic hunter-gatherers are largely free of diseases of affluence, and that such diets produce beneficial health outcomes in controlled medical studies. Supporters point to several potentially therapeutic nutritional characteristics of preagricultural diets. Critics of this nutritional approach have taken issue with its underlying evolutionary logic, and have disputed certain dietary prescriptions on the grounds that they pose health risks and may not reflect real Paleolithic diet It has also been argued that such diets are not a realistic alternative for everyone, and that meat-based diets are not environmentally sustainable."

seems interesting at least

3/22/2008 3:59:49 PM

I have been striving to have such a diet, but it is not easy to do that, especially if your job and life keeps you busy. Not to mention, the meat could get very expensive.

Basically:

Meat (all sorts, but wild/grass-fed/free-range, and unprocessed)
Roots, shoots, leaves, fruits, nuts, seeds

NO GRAINS
NO LEGUMES
NO DAIRY

3/22/2008 4:13:31 PM

true, it would definitely be more expensive

3/22/2008 4:15:20 PM

I pretty much live off cereal and eating out.

I don't see how anyone would pull this off.

3/22/2008 4:16:31 PM

no legumes?

i can have carrots but not peanut butter? f that

3/22/2008 4:17:31 PM

i'm fairly sure processed foods aren't going to fly in the diet mocking lifestyle an eon ago.

3/22/2008 4:21:27 PM

^ you'd have to go to the grocery store, you can get all of this there

3/22/2008 4:34:18 PM

Everyone I've seen on this diet has been ghostly and seemingly on the verge of death.

3/22/2008 4:57:51 PM

I wouldn't do it. Just because people developed a certain way doesn't mean it's a good idea. They were doing whatever got them far enough along to reproduce in the environment available, not the best they could do with the best resources available.

I mean, are we going to have to stop using toilets because they weren't invented until relatively recently?

3/22/2008 5:08:56 PM

I saw that on the front page as well.

Of course I'm not sure if I want the diet of people whose life expectancy was under 30.

3/22/2008 5:15:56 PM

^, ^^ Both of you are being obtuse on purpose, apparently.

Quote :

"I mean, are we going to have to stop using toilets because they weren't invented until relatively recently?"

How you take a shit doesn't have an effect on your health, but WHAT YOU PUT INTO YOUR body has a profound effect on your body and mind. [le duh]

Quote :

"Of course I'm not sure if I want the diet of people whose life expectancy was under 30."

As far as health goes, they were amazingly healthy. Life expectancy in those days had to do with diseases (not the life-style diseases, but viral/bacterial/fungal), parasites, injuries, predators (human and animal), etc.

************************************************

Read up on it.

It is one of the healthiest "diets" out there, backed by scientific data.

I am not saying that it is possible to maintain or sustain it in today's world. But, if it were possible, it would be one of the best things you could do to your body nutrition-wise.

3/22/2008 5:39:24 PM

I'm not saying that it's without merit, I just feel like it's an overly complicated way to avoid diseases of affluence.

3/22/2008 5:44:38 PM

^how so? go to the grocery store (health food place if your that sort of goober) buy some veggies buy some meat/fish/eggs, buy some fruit, go home, cook meat and/or veggies. eat

seems pretty simple to me.... abet it would be more complicated the more you eat out and such.

Quote :

"I wouldn't do it. Just because people developed a certain way doesn't mean it's a good idea. They were doing whatever got them far enough along to reproduce in the environment available, not the best they could do with the best resources available"

... feed a lion tofu and see what happens....
the idea is, and apparently it was missed, is that your body is optimally tuned genetically over many hundreds of thousands of years (million or 5) to eat the foods in this particular diet. Grains and to a much lesser extent dairy products have been introduced in the last 10,000 years or so, extremely recently in genetic evolution terms.

If you actually read the article it's still in use in remote tribal areas, aside from the diseases and ailments that modern civilization prevents (parasites, toxins etc) they are very healthy and do not suffer from the myriad of old age ailments that we do (and yes they live longer than 30 years).

it is definitely not a diet that is sustainable with the current population levels of humans

3/22/2008 6:08:36 PM

the average life expentancy has doubled since the invention of pizza.


i'll be at ruckus

3/22/2008 6:13:37 PM

They were eating what was available to them, not what was necessarily the best diet possible.

The idea that an adaptation is the best because it ocurred during the period of evolutionary adaptedness is ridiculous. As Mr. Joshua noted we're not saying that this diet is worthless. We're skeptical that this diet is the "healthiest" given the variety of options and advances in nutrition and food science we have available today.

Moreover, I think it's limiting to only consider the nutritional value of food when planning a diet. There's more to food than calories and nutrients. If this works for you, that's great. My culture and upbringing are important to me and I don't feel like I'm missing out on the best diet possible when I'm eating black beans and rice.

3/22/2008 6:19:28 PM

the elders of those old caveman villages were a whopping 20 years old


they were some old gray head wisemen for sure


yea lets go back to that day and age

3/22/2008 6:19:59 PM

^^^ I laughed out loud. Great answer.

3/22/2008 6:38:15 PM

yeah ive looked into this type of diet/lifestyle as well. cutting dairy out (or down in my case) was ridiculously hard b/c I love cheese. Also not eating sweet potatos and beans was difficult considering I lived on those for a while. Id say I lasted about two weeks before I started phasing everything back in. I think that was too short to notice a difference

The biggest tip is to get plenty of excercise on this diet (just like cavemen). Your going to be taking in a lot of fat. I think one of the ideas is that the body is better at processing fat for energy than starchy carbs etc.

If you go to the websites one of the funniest things is the amount of Bacon and butter these people eat. I think bacon is fairly cheap compared to other meats so they would eat like half a package a day!

Trully the human body can adapt and do fairly well on a variety of diets.

http://www.paleofood.com/

3/22/2008 6:38:34 PM

^^^ yeah, i already talked about that, but just for you, ill explain that bit again.

lifespan back in those days was more a function of disease, starvation, the environment (cold hot etc), predators, injuries, and infections

not the item groups they are eating

^^^^....

Quote :

"during the period of evolutionary adaptedness"

ok, i should be used to people not really understanding the concepts of evolution and adaptation... (which is ongoing..... and in 100,000 years of a mostly grain and dairy diet we will be able to process these as well as we do the other foods now)

humans and their ancestors not only had access to a 'limited' diet they also lacked the technology to process the food that you so love to eat at all. (yes all grains need processing for you to be able to eat them) their available foods were adequate (and indeed all of the rest of life on earth some how can get by without having to process their food much more than opening it) thusly they were always able to eat some foods (from even earlier ancestors) when protein started to become more readily available humans rapidly evolved.

the idea, is that your very dna and cells are tuned in a way to eat these foods the best as a direct result of these foods being the best in the environment for the last few million years. this is why you can't feed a dog lettuce and expect it to live. their bodies have been shaped by evolutionary processes to function on a mostly protein based diet (lion and tofu, still protein but not the right kind for the lion to live). just because you can live off of it does not mean it's the best food for your body.

humans have been eating this diet for hundreds of thousands of years. the human body is tuned to eat this diet genetically and physically. your ability to eat the rice and beans is a side confluence of the same enzymes that are used for digesting vegetables and fruits also function in a way to allow you to digest grains.

Quote :

"Moreover, I think it's limiting to only consider the nutritional value of food when planning a diet. There's more to food than calories and nutrients. If this works for you, that's great. My culture and upbringing are important to me"

so? it's also a part of one tribes culture to eat human brains, that doesn't mean they should (very nasty viral disease gets passed on as a result)

[Edited on March 22, 2008 at 6:44 PM. Reason : s^]

3/22/2008 6:43:26 PM

By that logic I'm also best adapted to be chased around by wolves and to not have AC or cable.

No thanks.

3/22/2008 6:44:51 PM

^ nice irrational expansion of the idea to make your argument sound better.
nah, means you can live in more places comfortably as a result of them

Quote :

"the average life expentancy has doubled since the invention of pizza. i'll be at ruckus"

as a result of medicine, not food, go back to chitchat

[Edited on March 22, 2008 at 6:48 PM. Reason : 9]

3/22/2008 6:45:34 PM

meh, the point is that it's a interesting idea that merits some thought, not just dismissal due to incorrect thinking (see: "well they didnt live long then, so this diet is crap!" (logical fallacy of assuming that the diet is the only source of their short life spans.) and "well if something we did awhile ago turns out to be better we shouldnt do anything we've been doing recently)

[Edited on March 22, 2008 at 6:56 PM. Reason : -]

3/22/2008 6:56:17 PM

http://www.imanomnivore.com

3/22/2008 6:57:11 PM

exactly, what i find very funny is that the very link i gave you makes your contrary points for you correctly, and all you had to do was actually read it some....

3/22/2008 7:00:06 PM

Quote :

"just because you can live off of it does not mean it's the best food for your body."

That's what I've been saying !! Just because I can live off that diet doesn't mean it's the best for me. For example, I will suffer an obnoxious death from anaphylaxis if I eat the shellfish my ancestors may have eaten. I may survive eating everything else on that list, but as aforementioned, my lifestyle of playing video games, going to the gym, and working with computers isn't at all in tune with what my ancestors were doing (human sacrifice and brain eating).

For me it's illogical reverting to an atavistic lifestyle [that hasn't even been 100% ascertained] that isn't compatible with the way I've chosen to live my life. The challenges and exertions I face daily are different than the ones my ancestors dealt with. The differences in my physical makeup from my ancestors, chemical or on a greater scale, are no less valid because they've been in existence for a shorter time. Except for stupidly low blood pressure (which I inherited from my South American ancestors) I'm rather healthy and I'm more likely to get taken out by a Wolfline bus than a wolf.

3/22/2008 7:05:06 PM

people also were lucky to make it to the age of 30 back in the day.

3/22/2008 7:17:41 PM

I guess I've basically been on this kind of diet for about two years without knowing it. All I really eat is meat, vegtables, and fruit. I do eat oatmeal for breakfast and the occasional cookie (or five), so I don't follow it exactly.

3/22/2008 9:13:50 PM

We should stop taking medicine also.

After all, the cavemen didn't take medicine and we inherited their genes.

3/22/2008 9:55:58 PM

I dont understand why everyone is hatin' on this diet

its fairly closely related to most of the more recent trends in healthy eating

high protein, lots of nuts/berries, less carbs/starches (and processed food) and as always lots of leafy greens and fruits.

atkins, south beach, and abs diet all kinda have a lot of the same tenets

These people have just decided to put out a possible reason why this type of diet may work, its what humans were thought to have eaten for thousands of years

3/22/2008 10:27:16 PM

i did an eat for your blood type kind of diet not too long ago and it was pretty easy to keep up. i'm o negative so it called for lots of red meat, veggies and some fruits, limited grains. i didnt follow it to the letter but i ate more meat and veggies and of course i lost weight. it was pretty easy to keep off once i went back to more grains and stuff.

3/22/2008 11:16:21 PM

damn i woulda never guessed they have specialized diets according to blood type...thats somewhat interesting(although my current diet is fairly healthy)

3/22/2008 11:21:25 PM

Quote :

"As far as health goes, they were amazingly healthy. Life expectancy in those days had to do with diseases (not the life-style diseases, but viral/bacterial/fungal), parasites, injuries, predators (human and animal), etc."

So who is to say that it was a healthy diet if longevity was not an issue? The only thing that a paleolithic diet needed to do was to get cavemen through their twenties.

One of the greatest advantages that homo sapiens had in becoming the dominant species on the planet was their ability to consume a wide variety of things and as such not be decimated when one plant or animal was over consumed. To say that they evolved to consume a specific diet flies in the face of that.

Also the whole theory of people being better off to consume a "paleolithic diet" is another new age notion from the 70s. What is the supposed health benefit of it?

3/22/2008 11:36:01 PM

I just ordered In Defense of Food

3/22/2008 11:51:45 PM

Quote :

"We should stop taking medicine also. After all, the cavemen didn't take medicine and we inherited their genes."

yuk yuk yuk, moron

Quote :

"people also were lucky to make it to the age of 30 back in the day."

not gonna explain this again for the lazy

Quote :

"So who is to say that it was a healthy diet if longevity was not an issue? The only thing that a paleolithic diet needed to do was to get cavemen through their twenties. One of the greatest advantages that homo sapiens had in becoming the dominant species on the planet was their ability to consume a wide variety of things and as such not be decimated when one plant or animal was over consumed. To say that they evolved to consume a specific diet flies in the face of that. Also the whole theory of people being better off to consume a "paleolithic diet" is another new age notion from the 70s. What is the supposed health benefit of it?"

again, if you bother to read all of it you wouldn't be asking questions or making these assumptions



for the very last time, there are tribal areas in the world, today, that eat this sort of diet, the result is their elderly do not suffer from many of the old age maladies that we do today.

and yes, they live past their 30's

3/23/2008 1:13:11 AM

I did it for a while.

3/23/2008 1:42:59 AM

Quote :

"How you take a shit doesn't have an effect on your health, but WHAT YOU PUT INTO YOUR body has a profound effect on your body and mind. [le duh]"

Actually, it can affect your health. Using the squatting position can make you less likely to get colon cancer, hemorrhoids, and other health issues. I'm guessing that's the way cavemen did it, so if you really want to live the lifestyle and get all the health benefits you can, buy one of these http://www.naturesplatform.com/index.html

3/23/2008 9:25:42 AM

Quote :

"Everyone I've seen on this diet has been ghostly and seemingly on the verge of death. "

so people that were raised on steak and potatoes look ghostly and on the verge of death? Are you sure you're not confusing this diet with veganism?

3/23/2008 9:52:59 AM

I gained weight on it, but that was my goal.



I'm definetly not ghostly and on the verge of death......

[Edited on March 23, 2008 at 12:40 PM. Reason : ]

3/23/2008 12:38:52 PM

Quote :

"By that logic I'm also best adapted to be chased around by wolves and to not have AC or cable."

you are best adapted for those things, having ac and cable and not being chased by wolves leads to sitting on your ass which leads to extra weight which leads to joint problems and heart disease.

the human body wasnt meant to carry alot of extra weight and the human heart wasnt meant to operate at couch potato level 24/7.

3/23/2008 2:24:27 PM

[Edited on March 23, 2008 at 6:32 PM. Reason : ]

3/23/2008 6:32:04 PM

Quote :

"as a result of medicine, not food, go back to chitchat"

what a condescending fucking oddball you are

3/23/2008 6:49:54 PM

Just because I'm adapted to running from wolves doesn't mean it's a good idea for me to give up a rewarding job/lifesyle to do stuff [concentrating on surviving instead of video games] my more recent ancestors grew out of.

An adaptation shouldn't be an imperative for a lifestyle, especially if the conditions under which the adaptation developed no longer apply. Just because a guy is hardwired to mate with as many women as possible doesn't mean he should (especially if he's like, married).

Unless he's adapted really good lying strategies.

3/23/2008 7:25:34 PM

as arab said earlier, i think you are intentionally being obtuse.

clearly the desire to screw a lot of women is not a health based trait. it is designed to ensure that your gene pool is spread. obviously this practice is not socially acceptable, and for obvious reasons that came about as humans developed. i'm not gonna take a ton of time to explain this to you, you can read a book.

now, as for your other points...clearly playing video games does not help your health and could even be a negative if you do it enough. there are obviously things that you could be doing with that time that would be more appropriate, in terms of their effect on your health.

as for this diet, maybe it will make you more healthy, maybe it won't, i'm no nutritionist. but clearly, different lifestyles need different diets. the thing is, as long as you follow obvious rules your diet will probably not cut significant years off of your life. that said, this diet may indeed add a few years to your life, but our lives are so long now that it may not be obvious or worthwhile to sacrifice a large amount of happiness to eat this diet.

it really comes down to choices, if this diet doesnt seem like something that would make you happy, dont do it. but it seems hard to argue (at least logically) that it might be a good idea to eat what our bodies are genetically designed to eat.

3/23/2008 8:55:31 PM

I wouldn't worry so much w/ your life span, as your quality of life.

[Edited on March 23, 2008 at 9:07 PM. Reason : granted, its hard to explain to a fat ass why eating what ever and watching tv aren't adding to a ]

[Edited on March 23, 2008 at 9:07 PM. Reason : better lifestyle]

3/23/2008 9:06:10 PM

Your body was designed to eat this diet when you were running around in a hunter-gatherer group a tens of thousands of years ago. Taking one piece of the puzzle [the diet] and applying it to some guy who does all of his hunting and gathering in WoW doesn't make sense.

3/23/2008 9:07:36 PM

If you are deadset happy with a shitty existance, we can't change that.


[Edited on March 23, 2008 at 9:12 PM. Reason : ]

3/23/2008 9:09:45 PM

I can't think of anything I eat that would be allowed in this diet.

3/23/2008 9:10:27 PM

you don't eat

fruits
vegetables
nuts
seeds
meat

???

what do you eat, plastic and glass?

3/23/2008 9:11:49 PM

probably bread, processed meats, pasta, boxed junk, milk, cheese, ice cream

[Edited on March 23, 2008 at 9:13 PM. Reason : ]

3/23/2008 9:12:40 PM

fruits
- yeah, i'm not sure which would be allowed in this diet
vegetables
- not reallly
nuts
- not that i know of
seeds
- no
meat
- if it's in a hamburger bun, it kind of doesn't work

[Edited on March 23, 2008 at 9:14 PM. Reason : yeah, you're right, lots of bread, cereal, pasta, etc.]

3/23/2008 9:14:08 PM