RIP

4/6/2008 6:19:34 PM

I guess you can finally get his guns away from him.

4/6/2008 6:34:33 PM

4/6/2008 6:41:24 PM

What are the odds of someone digging up his grave to try to pry that gun from his cold, dead hands.

RIP dude, time to watch Soylent Green and Omega Man.

4/6/2008 7:49:24 PM

Heston's voice was unparalleled. I was sad to hear this news. They don't make em like they used to. Look at Arnold, give him a little power and his woman pushes him to move California even further off the deep end. Are there any quality conservative actors anymore? There must be. I might have said Mel Gibson, but now I have to qualify that with a "do as I say not as I do". His movies more than others I've seen of late have a genuine thread of self-reliance and unflinching desire to obtain freedom in life. Compared to say the endless flood of moral relativism/liberal white guilt that typically flows from Hollywood.

RIP Chuck.

4/6/2008 8:26:07 PM

i hear Chuck Norris is pretty badass.

4/6/2008 10:39:03 PM

The problem with Norris is that he didn't endorse Mike Huckabee, he told America how it was gonna be, and it didn't come to be.

The mantle that Chuck Norris had been placed on via the internet has been irreparably harmed. I don't know how he can ever come back.

4/6/2008 11:19:56 PM

^^^ How about The Nuge? (Granted, musician, but still.)

[Edited on April 6, 2008 at 11:30 PM. Reason : I got the cat-scratch fever, baby!]

4/6/2008 11:30:15 PM

Stallone

for whatever difference any of that makes.

and The Nuge is kind of a right-leaning libertarian, from everything I know about him (which may or may not mean "conservative" to you, depending on your semantics of choice)

4/6/2008 11:35:59 PM

Clint Eastwood, fwiw. He and Heston were moreso civil libertarians than anything else. Eastwood is an advocate for the National Parks and Heston was a strong supporter of civil rights.

Nugent is not exactly a role model.

[Edited on April 6, 2008 at 11:53 PM. Reason : ,]

4/6/2008 11:51:20 PM

yeah

he's against drugs

but for marrying little girls

4/6/2008 11:58:12 PM

This undated file photo originally supplied by American Movie Classics shows Yvonne De Carlo,
third from left, kneeling beside Charlton Heston as he played Moses and she played his wife in
"The Ten Commandments." (AP Photo/American Movie Classics, FILE)




Billy Curtis, in a gorilla costume, chats with Charlton Heston on the set of "The Planet of the Apes"
in 1967. (AP Photo)





Charlton Heston joins civil rights protesters picketing a whites-only restaurant in Oklahoma City,
Okla., on May 27, 1961. (AP Photo, FILE)





Actor Marlon Brando, right, poses with his arm around James Baldwin, author and civil rights
leader, in front of the Lincoln statue at the Lincoln Memorial, Aug. 28, 1963, during the March on
Washington demonstration ceremonies which followed the mass parade. Posing with them are
actors Charlton Heston, left, and Harry Belafonte. (AP Photo, FILE)





Charlton Heston waves to fans while walking the picket line outside Paramount Studios in
Hollywood during the Screen Actors Guild and American Federation of Television and Radio
Artists strike, August 1980. (AP Photo/Lennox McLendon, FILE)





Charlton Heston serves one of more than 4,000 Christmas meals to homeless people outside the
Los Angeles Mission in Los Angeles, Dec. 24, 1998. Helping out is Heston's 7-year-old grandson
Jack Heston and actress Heather Thomas (left). (Photo by Vince Bucci/AFP/Getty Images)





National Rifle Association president Charlton Heston holds up a rifle during his address at the
131st NRA convention at the Reno-Sparks Convention Center in Reno, Nevada, April 27, 2002.
Heston announced that he would remain president of the NRA for an unprecedented fifth term.
(Photo by Candice Towell/Getty Images)






Charlton Heston and his wife Lydia are pictured at a Paris theatre on Sept. 5, 1963, during the
gala premiere of his film "Fifty five days in Peking." (AP Photo, FILE)






Charlton Heston and his wife Lydia at Paramount Pictures' 90th anniversary celebration "90 Stars
for 90 Years" at Paramount Studios in Hollywood, Calif., July 14, 2002.






[Edited on April 7, 2008 at 12:04 AM. Reason : ]

4/7/2008 12:02:08 AM

wow, that's a helluva long marraige by hollywood standards

hell, even by American standards


this is the kinda dude i want to be if/when i get famous. serving food to the homeless (although my homeless better not be wasting money on fucking earrings), involved in political causes, etc. generally doing what i can to make the world a better place.

[Edited on April 7, 2008 at 12:22 AM. Reason : asdf]

4/7/2008 12:20:42 AM

he was a real stand-up dude. I'm particularly impressed by him marching/picketing in the civil rights protests as far back as '61. thats something that really could have (and may have, for all i know) hurt his career. and FTR, the mission food serving thing wasnt just a one-off photo op... he did every year for many years.

4/7/2008 12:30:28 AM

As happens with many people, he got more conservative as he got older.

I always hated how Michael Moore portrayed him as a racist asshole. You wouldn't know if from "Bowling for Columbine, but the "from my cold, dead hands" line came more than a year after the columbine massacre, and he didn't say it in Denver but rather in North Carolina. And of course Moore edited his interview with Heston to make it look like he was a bumbling racist, despite Heston's documented civil rights track record.

Many younger Americans will only remember Heston for his famous lines and his inaccurate portrayal in "Bowling for Columbine", and that's unfortunate.

4/7/2008 12:55:03 AM

everyone knows Michael Moore is a propagandist hack.

4/7/2008 1:04:30 AM

i think there are a lot of people who don't really appreciate how much of a propagantist hack he is, though.

there is a difference between recognizing his bias and recognizing how he is a molester of the truth.

4/7/2008 1:18:37 AM

Charlton Heston is a complicated figure politically. It was odd reading comments posted on his death: it was rather bizarre to read so many younger critics and mockers who talked about how they were revolted by his politics wishing him a good riddance as they took his gun from his cold dead hands. Yet for those who were older, who remember the Heston who was a critic of McCarthy at a time when it would have ended one's career, a man who risked his reputation for aggressive support of civil rights, advocated for both a JFK and RFK presidency, and a few other things as well. Of course, rants against political correctness and advocating Nixon and Reagan also add to the muddy background.

Part of me wonders if it's not Heston who moved right but more that the spectrum shifted toward the left, leaving him on the right after realignment, especially with regards to guns.

At very least, his legacy is one that shows the complexity of individual political beliefs, that people can't be pigeonholed into a simple category.

4/7/2008 1:54:42 AM

I never realized that Heston was active in the Civil Rights movement.

That kinda makes me pissed at Michael Moore for making him out to be a total racist in Bowling for Columbine.

4/7/2008 3:58:01 AM

RIP

4/7/2008 4:02:54 AM

^^^ well said

4/7/2008 12:57:45 PM

RIP

4/7/2008 1:28:51 PM

I don't think JFK would have ever considered trying to take Heston's guns. So, I too believe the spectrum has shifted.

4/7/2008 2:12:26 PM

Just look at one of his star roles in Planet of the Apes. That entire movie was about the social and political battles going on the 60s. Remember the line by Heston "Never trust your elders"? It cuts to the heart of what was going on during that time period. I feel as though he was quite a reformer but at the same time had no problem displaying his convictions such as his strong support for gun ownership which has the lock-step lefties scratching their heads. How can someone be both an active champion of civil rights with a gun in his hand?
Charlton Heston was and will hopefully always be remembered as a Great American!

4/7/2008 3:10:50 PM

Quote :

"How can someone be both an active champion of civil rights with a gun in his hand? "

just to be clear, that's sarcasm i see, correct?

4/7/2008 7:07:20 PM

no, that was not sarcasm. he concisely expressing the "liberal dilemma"

and

Quote :

"How can someone be both an active champion of civil rights with a gun in his hand?"

Hunter S. Thompson 1937-2005



[Edited on April 7, 2008 at 7:39 PM. Reason : ]

4/7/2008 7:38:15 PM

Quote :

"the lock-step lefties scratching their heads. How can someone be both an active champion of civil rights with a gun in his hand?"

i think these two pieces go together, duke.

4/7/2008 7:39:51 PM

Pro-Gun, Pro-Nuclear Liberals Unite!

4/7/2008 7:43:48 PM

GUNS FOR EVERYONE IN AMERICA!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

4/7/2008 7:46:14 PM

i dont know about you, but im becoming increasingly concerned about the possibility of economic collapse.

when the economy collapses, and the foundations of our Constitution are weakened even further, who do you think will be in a position to make a bid for taking the reins of power?

the right-wing fundamentalist Christian Fascists. that's who. you know, the Tim Lahaye / Pat Robertson / Chuck Hagee crowd... and they're a very well-armed bunch.

also, an earthquake and/or volcano eruption can hit the Northwest at any time, really

either way, i've come to the conclusion that its time to start stocking up on potable water, canned goods, and ammunition.





[Edited on April 7, 2008 at 7:53 PM. Reason : ]

4/7/2008 7:51:07 PM

Quote :

"i think these two pieces go together, duke."

I, too, face this "dilemma" if it is such called. I am a gun advocate because I see the reasoning behind the second amendment. The British disarmed the colonists because they feared armed revolt over taxes and quartering. The founding fathers sought to ensure that no future government could to do the same.

4/7/2008 8:07:20 PM

i guess i just don't see the dilemma. i think gun rights and other civil rights go hand in hand.

like i've said before, i see both sides and can work in the grey areas of most issues, but the anti-gun mentality just does not compute with me.

4/7/2008 9:53:53 PM

SOYLENT GREEN IS CHARLESTON HESTON!!!!!!!!

he seemed like a stand up guy who did alot of good in his life. Good movies too.

4/7/2008 10:40:54 PM

the dilemma is for the so-called "lock step" liberals.

the problem with liberals in America, is that theres a tend to exclude people from the fold if they dont stay within certain boundaries on every one of several key issues.

conservatives, it seems, are more willing to include people if they are within certain boundaries on any one of several key issues. (with the exception of the Religious Right fundamentalists, who are hijacking the GOP).

i think this is one reason why the conservatives have been having more success. at least until recently, as its now becoming clear to more of the GOP's rank-and-file that if the religious right continues to co-opt their platform, they're going to be in for a bloody mess.

4/8/2008 2:04:07 AM

i wonder if there are enough people that are automatically voting dem to win the election

4/8/2008 2:07:44 AM

I wouldn't disagree that the political right casts a wider net

so I'm with you on what you're saying about "lock-step" liberals not accepting guns

I just have a problem with what may just be semantics--stating that there is a dilemma in supporting both "gun rights" and "civil rights". that just does not compute for me.

the Civil Rights movement was largely centered around rights for racial minorities, and to a lesser extent, broads. However, civil rights encompass a lot more than that--TO INCLUDE gun rights. By definition, I see no dilemma.

There is no ideological barrier to keep you from being a supporter of both (if anything, they go hand in hand).

4/8/2008 2:22:55 AM

Quote :

"I just have a problem with what may just be semantics--stating that there is a dilemma in supporting both "gun rights" and "civil rights". that just does not compute for me."

I think it is semantics. I mean there's no real "dilemma." There's just a sort of contradictory "sense" about it.

Guns for Tots is a recent example. I think those guys were actually anti-gun folks trying to make a point. But if they were legit, hot damn... White gun advocates passing out toy guns to black children in Harlem? I'm trying to see the intelligent message there, but I'm not getting it.

And stuff like that does create the illusion of contradictions.

Also, people who are pro-gun are more likely to have libertarian views...like the belief that private business owners should have the right to deny service to anyone, say, all black people.

Again, kind of contradictory...

4/8/2008 3:11:19 AM

^^ well, one problem is that liberals != libertarian. and libertarians are not exactly traditional supporters of civil rights. I know plenty of libertarians who vehemently argue AGAINST damn near every and all anti-discrimination measures... you know who I mean. those people who say: "If I want to deny service to Niggers, Kikes and Faggots at my business, I damn sure oughtta be able to without the Fedrul Guvmint tellin me otherhow."

if libertarian ideology ruled our country, the South would still be largely segregated... and I suspect so would a lot of the rest of the country it its more rural areas..

but i do hear what you're saying. i don't have a good answer as to why many liberals (but by no means all) are reflexively anti-gun. i think it has something to do with "guilt by association"

i'm think I'm going to make this my new research project. at least til i get bored or distracted by something else. Maybe I'll go buy a gun tonight, while I'm at it.

Places like firing ranges will let you store your weapons there for a fee right? because my wife will shit kittens if i bring a gun home.





[Edited on April 8, 2008 at 11:43 AM. Reason : ]

4/8/2008 11:35:19 AM

Quote :

"my wife will shit kittens if i bring a gun home. "

that would be a pretty good research topic too.

4/8/2008 12:33:14 PM

until it's time to use that gun on someone assaulting your wife.

4/8/2008 12:34:44 PM

Quote :

" i think it has something to do with "guilt by association" "

I think that's a lot of it, and I've always wondered about why certain issues that aren't really ideologically related have that association. i made a thread about it a long time ago, and most people didn't even get what i was saying (and the ones who did were just as baffled as i was, i think).

4/8/2008 1:14:00 PM

With guns, I also think it is the center-left instinct to solve social ills through government programs. If guns are killing people clearly the government should step in to stop it, thus regulation. The center left also tends to be more cerebrial than most of the right, not necessarialy smarter, but more emotive. They percieve solutions in a collective, idealistic, and emotional way, "if we place restrictions on guns, there would be no gun violence." This is, of course, a simplistic ideal. Not that the right doesn't have their own (if everyone was armed, there would be no gun violence), but I think the right approaches things from a more pragmatic and individualistic standpoint, "I can't depend on the government to protect me, so I should be able to protect myself."

This can be disadvantageous when dealing with the very real social problems such as poverty. "They're poor, it is their fault, they should deal with it," instead of, "some very bright people live in the ghetto, but we're failing them in the education system, we have to confront the core issues."

Each approach has its benefits, but their advantages can be easily smothered by more dogmatic wings of each party who can accuse those who see the pros of the other side, and the cons of their own, as sell-outs (witness Leiberman).

Quote :

"the problem with liberals in America, is that theres a tend to exclude people from the fold if they dont stay within certain boundaries on every one of several key issues."

I dated a girl who later came out as a lesbian in college. Recently, she and I were discussing how frustating it is for her that, as a lesbian, she is expected to go through the same stages as every other lesbian; man-hating for a while, vegan for a while, dykeish for a while, etc. It pissed her off because she didn't want her sexual orientation to identify her, but often other lesbians could be more exclusionary than her non-gay friends.

4/8/2008 2:45:19 PM

you're comparing apples to oranges.

because the dominant lesbian subculture is insane.

theres just no other way to describe it.

i don't think gay men, as a group, have a fraction of the issues these women do.

4/8/2008 3:04:12 PM

Quote :

"my wife will shit kittens if i bring a gun home."

Target practice?

4/8/2008 3:42:55 PM

Quote :

"Remember the line by Heston "Never trust your elders"? It cuts to the heart of what was going on during that time period."

I think the line was actually "Never trust anyone over thirty".

Sadly, I think that describes Heston living through the changing times and the shifting spectrum. While he may have been incredibly liberal for his work in the civil rights movement, allow 35 years to pass by and the younger generation sees him as a far right conservative waving his gun around.

Of course that may be more because of the villianization of the firearm in the late 20th century.

4/8/2008 4:20:17 PM

Quote :

"i don't think gay men, as a group, have a fraction of the issues these women do."

Not by her account. But I used "gay" in the broader sense of meaning homosexual, not just gay men.

I have no opinion on the matter, I'm simply presenting it as anecdotal evidence.

4/8/2008 4:32:53 PM

RIP, Chuck. RIP.

Quote :

"HockeyRoman: The British disarmed the colonists because they feared armed revolt over taxes and quartering. The founding fathers sought to ensure that no future government could to do the same."

I see somebody has read a little history. Good show.

Quote :

"How can someone be both an active champion of civil rights with a gun in his hand?"

I think the real question is how can you expect to actively champion civil rights without a gun in your hand, or the hands of your security forces.

Hunter's a genius, sure. But he wasn't perfect.

Unless he's arguing that civil rights champions are more effective when they're dead...

4/8/2008 4:43:43 PM

Quote :

"Hunter's a genius, sure. But he wasn't perfect. Unless he's arguing that civil rights champions are more effective when they're dead... "

you lost me there...

4/8/2008 6:00:35 PM

Ghandi's a great example. MLK another.

If that's his point, I may concede.

4/8/2008 7:24:55 PM

Quote :

"theDuke866: I think that's a lot of it, and I've always wondered about why certain issues that aren't really ideologically related have that association. i made a thread about it a long time ago, and most people didn't even get what i was saying (and the ones who did were just as baffled as i was, i think)."

?

Is it really that hard to understand? That's How the Brain Works 101.

4/9/2008 6:16:09 AM