I am more conservative based on my stance on economic/role of government issues. It's funny, I am pro gay marriage and pro choice (basically pretty liberal when it comes to social issues) and this sounds like the anti-conservative now but these stances use to be the definition of conservative until the republican party started pandering to the massive evangelical Christian base that they are known for today because of Straussian Neo-Conservative ideology.

Why are you liberal or conservative?

****Please keep this intellectual, blatant personal attacks just makes what you stand for less credible****

4/23/2008 3:05:43 AM

Same boat as you. Pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro stem cell....thats it

I hate liberals. I hate their attitude. I hate the sensationalism that oozes from their pores. Too often I see people clinging to article titles saying "youre cold hearted, you just help the rich, its not fair". The word fair is thrown around far too much.

Much of their arguments are based of the way it should be, what would be nice, and what makes them feel good inside. Not what is actually going on and what is possible. The government is there to correct insufficient market outcomes. Some social services are needed but do not tax me more if I decide to stay late at work so I can have more money in my pocket. Dont raise the minimum wage, it wont help. You want to tax businesses, tax small businesses, regulate more, spend more, tax individuals more................but.............you want more output, more unemployment, and more 'justice'. That contradicts itself. Dear Obama. Windfall taxes will only raise gas prices. I know it sounds good to most people but please dont base your campaign off what sounds nice, do what will really work.

Whew. Well I guess that was a little heated. I feel the Republican Party is far superior economically and I want the govt to stay out of my hair.

4/23/2008 3:25:00 AM

Being that taking a pro-environment stance makes you automatically liberal then I get mine mainly from there. I am also pro-choice, pro-gay marriage (hell, even if they just call it a "civil union" but give them the same exact benefits as a man-wife marriage). When I think of the word "liberal" I think of do what you like as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights. After the failed policies of the Bush administration I have have seen the dangers of big government. I should also add that I am pro-gun ownership because I see the history behind the amendment and its future implications. I don't think that one religion (or any) should be trying to push their agenda in schools just because the majority of people might adhere to that particular dogma. Economically I think that those who can help themselves should and not wait for the government to pick up their slack. And I don't agree with the notion of "love companies because they provide you with jobs!!1" because the only reason companies provide jobs is out of necessity to make money and not as some kind gesture.

I guess that over time I have become less inclined to care about the plight of humans because I'd rather there be less of them anyways in favor of habitat and wildlife retention.

[Edited on April 23, 2008 at 3:31 AM. Reason : .]

4/23/2008 3:25:27 AM

From the statements made in similar discussions in the past, I think it would be safe to say that most people who are on this board (and a lot of the American population for that matter) do not neatly fall into the liberal or conservative world views. Soapbox also seems to have a decent number of resident Libertarians who hold a similar view to you social and economic issues.

Personally, I'm a moderate meaning that I fall into that massive, murky gray area where the two ideologies you talk about meet.

[Edited on April 23, 2008 at 3:27 AM. Reason : trying to play nice... lack of sleep is making me cranky]

4/23/2008 3:26:00 AM

+1 points for using "Straussian"

-500 points for the part in asterisks, as it demonstrates a clear and profound lack of understanding about what the Soap Box does and ought to represent

[Edited on April 23, 2008 at 3:54 AM. Reason : bad grammar omfg]

4/23/2008 3:29:37 AM

Quote :

"Colemania: Much of their arguments are based of the way it should be, what would be nice, and what makes them feel good inside. Not what is actually going on and what is possible."

Right. Because abortion makes me feel good inside. Liberals are just as rooted in reality as you are.

Quote :

"Colemania: I feel the Republican Party is far superior economically and I want the govt to stay out of my hair."

I disagree.

Any party that still whips out trickle down with a straight face ain't superior to shit.

4/23/2008 3:52:13 AM

Thank you for the personal attack GrumpyGOP, very clever :::rolls eyes:::

BridgetSPK, it you think that by taking a "tough love stance" on the abortion issue makes you sound credible as being based in logic you are sadly mistaken. The liberal community votes according to A) not understanding anything about economics ( they vote on what 'seems' right, which is completely ignorant because they only have an uneducated view about the issue) B) Votes on purely social issues because that's what they know or C) By into slogans like "Change". Honestly, it truly blows my mind how ignorant the majority of liberals are (at least the ones I have met) concerning issues of any real importance.

[Edited on April 23, 2008 at 4:51 AM. Reason : .]

4/23/2008 4:48:11 AM

Wow, nice generalizations. Talk about credibility.

4/23/2008 5:03:45 AM

Feel free to take ANY liberal stance on anything without falling into the previously mentioned "false generalizations".

4/23/2008 5:15:44 AM

Sorry man, but you sound like the ignorant one with your sweeping generalizations.

And no, I don't feel like getting into an argument with you about your so-called issues of "real importance".

4/23/2008 5:20:04 AM

Quote :

"AlexAsInCato: BridgetSPK, it you think that by taking a "tough love stance" on the abortion issue makes you sound credible as being based in logic you are sadly mistaken."

The person I was responding to asserted that liberals make decisions based on the way things should be and on what things make them feel good. Abortion does not make me feel good. And if things were the way they should be, nobody would ever want or need an abortion. But I still fucking vote to support it.

That's my first counter to this notion that liberals aren't rooted in reality.

Do you understand?

4/23/2008 5:34:07 AM

Prawnstar, that is all I needed to hear, thank you for reaffirming my beliefs in liberals.

Bridget, I do agree with you that voting pro-choice is a reasonable one. All I was saying is that a majority of liberal voters vote ONLY according to their social views without taking into account what really matters which is economics and political structure. The reason these take precedence is because without them the social stances become devoid.

4/23/2008 5:54:10 AM

Quote :

"without taking into account what really matters which is economics and political structure."

Umm...maybe to you but you'd be wise to refrain from projecting you beliefs onto others. kkthx.

4/23/2008 6:04:40 AM

Thats not a personal belief, thats a objective fact or am I to assume that you would be just as happy to live 200 years ago than now. Maybe I underestimated how much you know but I guess that should be expected considering your not old enough to understand that economic growth isn't a norm but only a staple of America for the past 30 years. Consider stepping out of your limited perspective and analyzing the world outside of your life time. Consider this a personal challenge to prove me wrong HockeyRoman.

4/23/2008 6:12:00 AM

Not everyone's motivation is the green of money. Since you want to make yourself seem older than I am one could only hope that you would have learned the definition of opinion by now. But maybe you really are obtuse enough to think that money and politics are the only things that matter to everyone.

4/23/2008 6:23:25 AM

A Clinton & a Bush both spend plenty. Given that its hard to control $ issues, I’d rather have the gov spending money on productive things like infrastructure, environment, and education rather than war. Basically I vote on social issues. As a general rule in the primaries I’ll go for the more socially liberal, financially conservative democrat, and vote for them again in the general election. I don’t want the government in my bedroom, I don’t want the government in my phone lines, and I don’t want the government getting into and messing with my civil liberties.

4/23/2008 6:35:47 AM

It is not that I think that money and politics is what matters to everyone. It is only that I expect for those who are concerned with money and politics be objective. If you would like to talk about opinions that that is okay with me. I have formed mine solely from logic and on that note I think you have trouble coming to the harsh realization that someone younger than you is more educated than you (To be fair, this is not out of raw intelligence but out of raw consumption of information) BTW maybe you are this ignorant (out of no fault of your own) but let me tell you Money and Politics control the world and YOU. Surprise!

4/23/2008 6:44:01 AM

Heh, I actually just checked you user info. Gotta love the 21 year old punk kid who finishes a year of college and are ready to tell us all how it REALLY IS! At first I thought you were just a hooksaw wannabe.

4/23/2008 6:55:34 AM

Quote :

"BTW maybe you are this ignorant (out of no fault of your own)"

Quote :

"****Please keep this intellectual, blatant personal attacks just makes what you stand for less credible****"

Wow, who died and made you god?

You argue against economic liberalism but say you are socially liberal. These theories do not have to be separated. Economic liberalism does not mean throwing away money for shits and giggles, like many conservatives would have you believe. It does, however, try to assure that everyone in society has a livable status in life. After all, if you were a true conservative you would argue that any handouts from the government to the handicapped was wasteful spending and it should all come from charities. Aka. they get money from charities/family or die.

4/23/2008 8:24:19 AM

I consider myself more of a libertarian, esp fiscal. I think it is fundementally wrong to penalize people for being productive to reward teh irresponsible. I think our govt should view and treat everyone equally. No tax breaks for one company, which only hurts its competitors. If you do for one, you have to do for all.. imo. Someone shouldnt be taxed more bc they make more. I believe in small govt and social darwinism. In no way should our govt be bailing out peoples bad decisions.

Im also for gay civil unions, pro-choice(with limits), pro-environment(with limits). I dont like or own a guy, I do think the world would be better if we didnt have them.. but thats a fairtale. So I support people's legal right to choose whether they want one.

I think that puts me socially moderate, but strong fiscal conservative.

My income is the most important issue for me, so I tend to go with republican. Nothing is critical for me to take care of my family, take care of myself, and accumulate wealth than my income. Working 4 months a year for the govt isnt fun, and expanding govt programs simply bc we reward irresponsiblity isnt right or fair. imo

4/23/2008 8:34:35 AM

i was a middle of the road moderate about 10 years ago.

somehow that puts me righter than rush limbaugh and jesse helms these days.

wtf

4/23/2008 8:49:26 AM

^I know what you mean Rat.

Both parties have really shifted left. I guess they are trying to appeal the booming population masses and changes in society.

I believe the first trillion dollar budget was reagan. Bush just passed a 3 trillion.. and people complained... not bc it was fucking 3 trillion, but it CUT funding to some areas. It wasnt ENOUGH. Now we have obama who is going to raise it close to another trillion. This shit is outta control.

[Edited on April 23, 2008 at 9:10 AM. Reason : .]

4/23/2008 8:56:33 AM

no srsly. i'm a right wing tool bag now. and not even by choice. if you don't believe me check back in a few posts

gov't these days is like my gf and 3 credit cards with no limit.

just stop spending

4/23/2008 9:01:50 AM

eyedrb:

Quote :

"I dont like or own a guy"

thanks for sharing.

4/23/2008 9:58:38 AM

someone make a [definitive] "are you liberal or conservative?" flowchart (past and present)





oh and, freudian slip?

Quote :

"I dont like or own a guy, I do think the world would be better if we didnt have them.. but thats a fairtale. So I support people's legal right to choose whether they want one."

4/23/2008 9:59:25 AM

this thread is stupid as the liberal v conservative 2-D continuum is the vomit creation of the media and establishment designed to keep the two party system in tact.

That being said I consider myself Libertarian. As AlexAsInCato says i am conservative (not Bush style neo-con) in my economic views of economics. Also I am for social freedoms pro-choice, anti drug war; etc.

On the other hand i can not stand the whiny liberal idealistic outlook of society that is accompanied by the ZOMG global warming and the trees. Liberals tend to pride themselves at being supposedly "tolerant and open minded" yet they will shun or look down on those who oppose their progressive views.

On the other hand i can not stand the hardcore republican hawkish let's go get them, you are with us or against us foreign policy attitude. Nor the christian values outlook that they feel society should comply by. I almost find this worse as at least i can respect the liberal camp for its humanitarian concerns.

4/23/2008 10:01:34 AM

the "liberal-conservative" dichotomy is so inadequate,

that it seems to have been created not for the facilitation of democracy

but to impose some kind of limited system of checks-and-balances on a one-party state




the federal government we have now, (the one that came into power about a century ago,) must have an agenda of it's own

one that's not spelled out in the constitution, or for that matter, any other public document

it cares not about the prerogative of the states, nor that of the people, except to the extent that prevents civil war


the internet (and perhaps some guns) may be our only hope

[/borderline conspiracy nut]

4/23/2008 10:14:53 AM

What also i can not stand is how dependent people are on the fed and always expect them to do or regulate. What about state politics? If anything universal health care , god forbid, should be handled at the state level. Each state could cater to its own population needs and there would be less worry about some states getting favoritism b.c the senator that is chairman of that committee wouldn't get to show favoritism. I get even more pissed off when the federal starts sticking their little hands in education too. NCLB has been a nightmare to everyone i have ever spoke to in the education industry. I have yet to here one SINGLE positive comment except from politicians in Washington.

4/23/2008 10:44:16 AM

My reasons are probably pretty shallow.

I am very conservative fiscally because I come from a high upper class family and I work in corporate America and have aspirations to continue doing so.

I am moderate to liberal on most social issues. I really don't care what other people do in terms of pro/choice, gay marriage, etc, etc... it doesn't cheapen anything I do or have so why should it bother me?

4/23/2008 12:18:26 PM

THIS....










































has never been done before.

4/23/2008 12:21:20 PM

^^ you are liberal on social issues b.c you and Dawson aka TKE-Teg have a gay love affair.

[Edited on April 23, 2008 at 12:22 PM. Reason : l]

[Edited on April 23, 2008 at 12:22 PM. Reason : z]

4/23/2008 12:21:42 PM

Caught me

Seriously, I think Pat hates all gays and wants them to die... unless NYC changed him.

Really, the economy is more important to me than any other issue.

4/23/2008 12:26:30 PM

more important then gay marriage and illegals taking your berry picking jobs !!

4/23/2008 12:44:41 PM

haha, that is funny jelly. I was trying to say I dont like or own a gun.. BUt that is pretty funny. I dont own a guy either.

4/23/2008 12:57:15 PM

Quote :

"Same boat as you. Pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro stem cell....thats it I hate liberals. I hate their attitude. I hate the sensationalism that oozes from their pores. Too often I see people clinging to article titles saying "youre cold hearted, you just help the rich, its not fair". The word fair is thrown around far too much. Much of their arguments are based of the way it should be, what would be nice, and what makes them feel good inside. Not what is actually going on and what is possible. The government is there to correct insufficient market outcomes. Some social services are needed but do not tax me more if I decide to stay late at work so I can have more money in my pocket. Dont raise the minimum wage, it wont help. You want to tax businesses, tax small businesses, regulate more, spend more, tax individuals more................but.............you want more output, more unemployment, and more 'justice'. That contradicts itself. Dear Obama. Windfall taxes will only raise gas prices. I know it sounds good to most people but please dont base your campaign off what sounds nice, do what will really work. Whew. Well I guess that was a little heated. I feel the Republican Party is far superior economically and I want the govt to stay out of my hair."

4/23/2008 1:35:15 PM

I'm liberal because I don't like conservatives.

4/23/2008 2:51:59 PM

^ and a supporter of LGBT rights

4/23/2008 2:56:39 PM

That was mostly a joke. I have plenty of conservative friends.

But seriously, I just feel like liberals have a better sense of morals and that's a big plus when it comes to electing someone for me. I'm not saying they're infallible by any sense of the imagination, but when they get caught in a sex scandal, they're the ones who were just cheating on their spouse. They weren't the one who was in charge of the page program and sending inappropriate emails to them. Or they weren't the ones who spent their entire career fighting against gay rights only to get caught soliciting sex in an airport bathroom. I just feel like if they're so blatantly hypocritical and they can lie to their constituents faces and they're own faces like they do, they have no business making decisions that affect every person in the country. Plus I absolutely deplore Republican foreign policy.

4/23/2008 3:02:57 PM

“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”
-Winston Churchill


Some of us mature faster.. what can I say.

4/23/2008 3:06:25 PM

i find a lot of parts of the GOP platform hypocritical more often then the dems.

regardless i am voting McCain 08'

[Edited on April 23, 2008 at 3:20 PM. Reason : a]

4/23/2008 3:20:26 PM

^^ Back in that day, conservative meant something completely different. That quote is irrelevant.

4/23/2008 3:28:00 PM

Quote :

"AlexAsInCato: Why are you liberal or conservative?"

4/23/2008 5:41:09 PM

lol the pics in the back

4/23/2008 5:53:26 PM

abortion- i'd rather them have it, but could care less...cause it will be done just the same on the down low
social security- i'd rather set up my own them
cloning- wish we did more of it
environment- i mean i'm more for it than against it but i'm fine with status quo as of now
ethanol- dont like it, uses too much water, is less efficient, makes food prices go up, etc
taxes- i think i like the fair tax...sounds like i'd just get taxed on what i'd buy and i'd only buy used shit
immigration- i think kicking out over 12 million people is dumb...i do support a new employee varification system...i heard a story that the gov wants to fingerprint anyone that leaves the US...i am ok with that...aint got no reason to care
i like nuclear power and wish we had more of it
i like us always having like 10-20k troops in iraq
i like us taking iraqs oil at some point
i dont like us going to war with iran
north korea - anyone see the syria artical in the nyt?
i think john mccain will win in november
i'm pretty sure i'm agnostic but i act like a catholic
i dont really mind what reverend white said other than the HIV thing
i dont oppose raising the taxes payed by people making over 250k a year
i wouldnt mind something like what eisenhower did with the roads...like fixing them up and shit instead of building them
i dont find the bitter comment elitest
i think the world would be such a better place with obama

if i think of anything i forgot i'll post them later

[Edited on April 23, 2008 at 6:02 PM. Reason : .]

4/23/2008 6:00:44 PM

Not to pick on DnL or anything, but I think he represents a huge problem with the average American.

Quote :

"employee varification system...i heard a story that the gov wants to fingerprint anyone that leaves the US...i am ok with that...aint got no reason to care"

DnL, like the average American, doesn't see anything wrong with this. But it's one of the many individually minor, but seriously eroding of civil liberties, that the government is doing. Honestly, if the government collects lots of little, itty, bitty tiny pieces of information, but they put them together, there is a huge potential problem. That's one of the things that points me more towards liberalism than conservatism. Liberals are more concerned with protecting civil liberties (although they do go way overboard at times) than are conservatives. I think with the advancements in technology we are going to see over the next decade or so could create huge societal problems if it falls into the wrong hands. That's why I'm completely opposed to the idea of Department of Homeland Security. They could basically call it the Department of Spying on Americans and it would be the same thing. We need to abolish that shit ASAP.

4/23/2008 6:12:24 PM

shit dude if u think thats bad wait til i tell u i wouldnt mind if the gov. had a dna program where they had a sample from everyone?

4/23/2008 6:15:51 PM

I'm not surprised but I'm still appalled.

4/23/2008 6:23:27 PM

Quote :

"Prawnstar, that is all I needed to hear, thank you for reaffirming my beliefs in liberals."

I think the last time I was called a liberal was by salisburyboy. AlexAsInCato, you are in truly elite company!

4/23/2008 6:48:20 PM

social Anarchy son, reprezent

4/23/2008 7:31:44 PM

Quote :

"I'm not surprised but I'm still appalled."

what DnL so happily fails to realize, is that in his lock-down security world, his very own genetic dispostion to be a drunk will preclude him from all but the most basic healthcare.

"you say you're worried about Colon cancer? nah. dont sweat it. your genetic profile says that any symptoms you have will likely be the result of your alcoholism. here's some Imodium. Don't drink and drive, mmkay."



[Edited on April 23, 2008 at 7:34 PM. Reason : ]

4/23/2008 7:31:50 PM