Does anyone here think that if Jesus (or any other prophet for that matter) returns to Earth no one would believe them? Wouldn't people just think they were crazy? What would it take to convince people that this person truly was the son of God? This is something I've thought about before. Is it even possible with the way we treat people who act like this to not get locked up in some asylum? Would this person have to perform physical miracles or simply preach the word of God without committing any sins? Isn't that a miracle by itself? Personally, I have a hard time believing Jesus really performed miracles and they're more likely just some stories that some scribe in 300 AD penned into one of translations of the books.

Basically, I want to know what everyone thinks it would take to really have another prophet type person reveal himself. The world has been lacking one of these people for about 1300 years. Isn't it about time a new one was born?

4/30/2008 4:46:33 AM

Hey, dude, what if. . . .

[Edited on April 30, 2008 at 6:17 AM. Reason : PS: It's AD 300--not the way you have it.]

4/30/2008 6:16:47 AM

the way i understood it in sunday school years ago, when jesus returns, it's supposed to be pretty damned clear who it is. It's not supposed to be another virgin birth, then waiting till he grows up and does miracles and shit. he will come down, then shit gets real - believers ascent, sinners stick around or go to hell or whatever.

and hey, there have been plenty of prophets recently, but the world has rightly placed them in the category of the loony-bin, which is probably where Jesus and Muhammad would end up if they were born today. Joseph Smith/Ellen White to name a couple David Koresh

4/30/2008 7:47:13 AM

That's what I'm saying. Jesus would have never had the opportunity to do the stuff he did in today's world. Also, I don't know if I believe the church's interpretation of what Jesus' return will be like. They're pretty full of bullshit on just about every other topic.

I just feel like there's this constant struggle in today's world between religion and what we understand about the world. I also don't think it's necessary and that if we keep it up it's going to end up destroying us. Someone needs to come along who can create a contemporary religion that allows people to believe in God without being inhibited by our past views of God's powers that were attributed to him because we didn't know any better. This person would probably by what I'm thinking not be the reincarnation of Jesus, but would basically start a new religion that took positive aspects of every other religion and combine them to create a new kind of spirituality. I mean, it's possible that this religion already exists and I don't know what I'm talking about. But this war between science (I really hate using that term here because it's so played out) and religion is just not a good thing and it creates so much seperation in our society.

4/30/2008 8:28:37 AM

4/30/2008 8:31:42 AM

Quote :

"What would it take to convince people that this person truly was the son of God?"

You'll know when all the believers in Christ are no longer here and unbelievers are left standing around.

* "For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."
(1 Thessalonians 4:15–17)

* "Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way."
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-7)

4/30/2008 8:33:55 AM

i'm pretty sure the 1st coming of christ was meek and lowly like prophesied in the old testament.

and likewise the 2nd visit of christ is going to like pwn the world and stuff b4 armageddon breaks out and nobody is going to miss it. i'll come back with a longer answer later.

4/30/2008 9:03:00 AM

Quote :

"That's what I'm saying. Jesus would have never had the opportunity to do the stuff he did in today's world. Also, I don't know if I believe the church's interpretation of what Jesus' return will be like. They're pretty full of bullshit on just about every other topic."

1000-2000 years ago was a pretty good time to create religions - there was no internet, no TV, no video proof of miracles. Most nations were theocracies or dictatorships so the dictator could do whatever he wanted. So when someone shows up in the Middle East and has a local following, then decades or centuries later other people write books about him, there's no proof to show what that person actually did.

If David Koresh had lived 2000 years ago, who knows - maybe he would have been big and the world would be filled with Koreshians today. But with today's technology and communication, it was immediately obvious to the whole world, except for small bunch of true believers, that he was full of shit or just a nutjob.

4/30/2008 9:03:53 AM

4/30/2008 9:24:39 AM

If what the Bible says is true, then the next time Jesus comes to earth... we will know. Jesus wasn't much of a prophet though. He did predict the near future, but he was more of a spiritual teacher than a prophet. Of course, even more so, he's that piece of the divine trinity that supposedly unselfishly came down to save our souls. So, he's more than a prophet and not merely a spiritual teacher. From a Christian perspective that is.

And from the aforementioned perspective, there is no more need for prophecy or prophets. All that needs to be said about the future has already been said in Revelations. All that needs to be taught, has already been taught between Matthew and Jude.

Now from a non-Christian perspective... as far as prophets and spiritual teachers go, we haven't seen really cool ones in a while. I guess Ghandi almost counts as one. You might possibly call the Dali Lama a spiritual teacher. You could say Oprah is one. Go ahead and throw Dr. Phil up on that list too. Heck, what about Miss Cleo? She can tell anyone's future!

4/30/2008 9:57:31 AM

the fact is david koresh is dead, real prophets dont just get dead for no reason, that means he had no real power

but the original question is a great one
right now i think the average christian is like the jews were during christ's time, just looking at the tradition and not willing to believe
you have to have an open heart to be able to see the truth cause i dont see how you can reason your way to figure this stuff out

4/30/2008 10:02:41 AM

Quote :

"This person would probably by what I'm thinking not be the reincarnation of Jesus, but would basically start a new religion that took positive aspects of every other religion and combine them to create a new kind of spirituality."

Do you mean literally combining various religions to create a universal religion like the Unitarian Universalists or the Baha'i? Or do you mean picking and choosing certain aspects of each religion to create a new one? With the former approach, I don't think it'll gain too much traction; the traditional faiths contract each other on too many critical points to be blended into a single creed. As for the latter, is it really necessary to create a new religion? Why not simply establish or reinforce some sort of humanist code or philosophy instead?

Quote :

"Someone needs to come along who can create a contemporary religion that allows people to believe in God without being inhibited by our past views of God's powers that were attributed to him because we didn't know any better."

If you try and generate a new God stripped of all his powers ranging from creationism to omnipotence, would people even bother worshiping him (or her)?

Maybe we should all just become Pastafarians, touched by His noodly appendage.

Quote :

"What would it take to convince people that this person truly was the son of God? This is something I've thought about before. Is it even possible with the way we treat people who act like this to not get locked up in some asylum? Would this person have to perform physical miracles or simply preach the word of God without committing any sins? Isn't that a miracle by itself?"

I would also think that if the Son of God came down, then an asylum probably wouldn't be able to hold him. If, according to the Bible, God sprang people like Paul and Silas from prison, I doubt he'd keep his son locked down unless it served a purpose.

[Edited on April 30, 2008 at 10:09 AM. Reason : .]

4/30/2008 10:06:17 AM

Quote :

"real prophets dont just get dead for no reason, that means he had no real power"

umm.... that's because real prophets don't exist

4/30/2008 10:06:53 AM

^so life comes from nothing, the universe is nothing, everything is nothing....?

4/30/2008 10:10:03 AM

Quote :

"have a hard time believing Jesus really performed miracles and they're more likely just some stories that some scribe in 300 AD penned into one of translations of the books."

Quote :

"have a hard time believing Jesus really performed miracles and they're more likely just some stories that some scribe in 300 AD penned into one of translations of the books."

Quote :

"have a hard time believing Jesus really performed miracles and they're more likely just some stories that some scribe in 300 AD penned into one of translations of the books."

This is nothing new. Do a simple wikipedia search for Emperor Constantine, christianity, or history of the bible.

I am sure it will be insightful. Also, of interest would be to research divergence of the bible due to intentional and unintentional translation errors at the creation of the King James version in English.

For the most part I respect the morals and metaphoric motifs that bible stories provide. I laugh though at those ignorant fools who take a literal interpretation of the bible and act as every verse really did happen with the entire book being the word of god. Must be a miracle that no one altered, edited, or exaggerated a book whose stories document over 6000 years of history. Good thing god still doesn't come down and turn cities into dust like it says in the bible or Las Vegas might be gone tomorrow.

[Edited on April 30, 2008 at 10:22 AM. Reason : a]

4/30/2008 10:14:27 AM

i've heard the the prophet john is still alive, b/c didn't jesus give him the power to live as a mortal being till the end of the world?

4/30/2008 10:48:53 AM

Quote :

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is God both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

4/30/2008 11:09:43 AM

pick one of the ONLY TWO CHOICES:

A) jesus was a real live human that lived on earth long ago, did good things, but IS NOT THE SON OF GOD

B) jesus is a mythological human said to have lived on earth, done good things, and been the son of god

4/30/2008 11:26:01 AM

I would think this if I were stoned, IMStoned420

4/30/2008 11:56:11 AM

Ok, forget I used Jesus as an example. That was mainly an attention grabber. What I'm talking about is creating a new religion with new tenets and moral code that all people, no matter who they are would be able to follow. It would be mostly a way for people to remain spiritual while at the same time dropping the bad things about current organized religion... Giving massive amounts of money, the strict interpretation of the Bible, the confrontations it creates with other religions and ways of thinking.

It would keep people made in the essence of God and not so much the image. God is not this figure that watches over us so much as a spiritual presence that surrounds us. Kind of like the Force in Star Wars. It doesn't grant you powers like in Star Wars, but it has a light and dark side. It works kind of like karma. God is everywhere and everything. By understanding more about the world and universe in which we live we become closer to God because we understand him better. At this point it kind of sounds silly referring to it as God and a person.

The struggle between good and evil will always remain. Some people will always want to do bad things and there won't always be something others can do to stop them. It still ties into some things that current religion teaches but a lot of things that organized religion teaches the world has grown up from. I'm mainly just tired of seeing people hold back progress because of their outdated views on what religion is and should be. It's entirely possible to remain very spiritual and let progress continue without trying to explain everything in terms of how God says it was and always will be.

I've kind of hit a block on what I'm thinking about because I've been awake studying all night but I think I have this thread going in the direction I intended it.

4/30/2008 11:57:04 AM

A) jesus was a real live human that lived on earth long ago, did good things, but IS NOT THE SON OF GOD

4/30/2008 11:59:46 AM

That's how I think too. But the fact that I don't think he wasn't the literal son of God doesn't mean he was any less of a great person. He did great things and has influenced the world possibly more than any other human being ever, but he was still a man. His teachings have been so perverted and manipulated by organized religion though they're almost worthless because they're message is so hidden. It's time to start fresh and create something new that would benefit humanity more.

4/30/2008 12:03:41 PM

Quote :

"^so life comes from nothing, the universe is nothing, everything is nothing....?"

w.t.f does that have to do with a prophet - either a human channeling and speaking for a god (mohammad) or a literal god-on-earth (jesus)?

4/30/2008 12:05:17 PM

ok you guys ask some good questions about god

why is there evil? i dont know

but answer this
do we all come from nothing?

4/30/2008 1:40:12 PM

^^no but you questioned a prophet existing as if god didnt exist, if god exists then he would likely have prophets

4/30/2008 1:41:15 PM

Quote :

"if god exists then he would likely have prophets"

LOL

*reviews resume*

*fails to see "god" among titles*

And how exactly did you come to that conclusion?

4/30/2008 1:47:44 PM

^ agreed.
How the hell would you presume that a god "would likely" have prophets? Is there any rational line of reasoning to come to that conclusion?

Quote :

"but answer this do we all come from nothing?"

really? is that your ace in the hole? how does god fill that gap? putting a god into existence before the universe was created is just pushing the question back one more level, so that the question no longer is how did the universe come into being into how did god come into being.

[Edited on April 30, 2008 at 2:16 PM. Reason : .]

4/30/2008 2:12:54 PM

amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets.

http://bible.cc/amos/3-7.htm

pwned

not only is that in perfect context, but read the surrounding chapters for more pwnage.

[Edited on April 30, 2008 at 2:25 PM. Reason : .]

4/30/2008 2:17:55 PM

Congratulations; you quoted a 2000 year old book. Got any other sources?

4/30/2008 2:35:07 PM

^ wow. are you kidding me. if we are talking about jesus christ, then what source are you looking for? rev. wright? lol

lol, you know of any others to quote jesus christ from? i don't.

hahaha

[Edited on April 30, 2008 at 2:37 PM. Reason : .]

4/30/2008 2:36:59 PM

pwned indeed. Use the bible itself to support the supposition that God has prophets. A book which was inspired by god himself, and a book which itself shows the existence of god to begin with.
brilliant. that's air-tight logic right there.

4/30/2008 2:37:16 PM

Quote :

"^ wow. are you kidding me. if we are talking about jesus christ, then what source are you looking for? rev. wright? lol lol, you know of any others to quote jesus christ from? i don't. "

ummm, are you talking about Jesus?
Because you quoted Amos, which is in the Old Testament, and Amos is supposedly a prophet himself.

4/30/2008 2:39:51 PM

Quote :

"Is it even possible with the way we treat people who act like this to not get locked up in some asylum?"

4/30/2008 2:40:27 PM

so let me get this straight, the lord (god or jesus christ) needs to get a message to his people

he gets a man named Amos to help him. amos happens to write down that this "lord" or god doesn't do anything without revealing it to mankind (through prophets)

what am i missing again?

4/30/2008 2:41:54 PM

You're using the bible to prove the bible

4/30/2008 2:44:54 PM

more precisely (in this case), you're using the word of Amos to prove the word of Amos.

Amos says god must speak through prophets. Amos is a prophet, so god speaks though him. God tells amos that he must speak through prophets. Amos is a prophet, so god speaks though him. God tells amos that he must speak through prophets. Amos is a prophet, so god speaks though him. God tells amos that he must speak through prophets. Amos is a prophet, so god speaks though him. God tells amos that he must speak through prophets. Amos is a prophet, so god speaks though him. God tells amos that he must speak through prophets. Amos is a prophet, so god speaks though him. God tells amos that he must speak through prophets. Amos is a prophet, so god speaks though him. God tells amos that he must speak through prophets. Amos is a prophet, so god speaks though him.

4/30/2008 2:47:47 PM

4/30/2008 2:56:24 PM

things like jesus returning to earth are what REALLY makes not not belive in this religion crap....i mean you got to be pretty stupid if you are waiting for this to happen in your life time....dude died forever ago, people have forever been wanting to find him...and when you think about it...religion prolly aint really that reliable of something to believe in...so you got all these dumbasses thinking jesus will come back one day....from what i was told the reason bush likes israel so much is that it has to be there for jesus to come back...idk, i really hope thats not why he likes israel so much...seems like if god were so powerful he would fucking just snap his fingers and poof the world is perfect...seems like in 2000 years at some point jesus would have taken a vacation or by now we'd have some kinda proof of all this religion crap, i mean it just blows my mind...i'm a catholic though

4/30/2008 3:07:36 PM

so god actually didn't influence amos to write that?

he just said that to confuse everything?

4/30/2008 3:21:07 PM

i love how I get labelled the big stoner

4/30/2008 3:29:13 PM

4/30/2008 3:37:09 PM

oh i get it. the bible is useless to try and find evidence then. ok.

i guess this thread is useless unless somebody gets a time machine or can dig up some pretty astounding evidence to show proof that jesus actually existed or that any prophets existed or that the bible contains any truth at all. other than that this thread is fucked.

[Edited on April 30, 2008 at 3:54 PM. Reason : .]

4/30/2008 3:53:39 PM

hey, now you're getting it! gg!

4/30/2008 4:03:11 PM

lol. so why was this thread made again?

i'm lost. i thought we were debating the return of jesus christ and evidence surrounding that event.

gotchas

4/30/2008 4:15:04 PM

read Revelations to know why you don't have a valid point as far as Jesus Christ's return. However you may have a point with the return of Moses and one other prophet (i think Elijah) after the return of Christ.

4/30/2008 4:23:01 PM

Quote :

"i've heard the the prophet john is still alive, b/c didn't jesus give him the power to live as a mortal being till the end of the world?"

John Amsterdam

4/30/2008 5:56:04 PM

IMStoned, you can get that Grand Inquisitor bullshit out of here.

4/30/2008 6:05:48 PM

Quote :

"Good thing god still doesn't come down and turn cities into dust like it says in the bible or Las Vegas New Orleans might be gone tomorrow. "

oh wait

[Edited on April 30, 2008 at 7:09 PM. Reason : jk...sorta]

4/30/2008 7:08:58 PM

^There is no "jk....sorta." Either you were kidding or you weren't. Stop being a fence-sitting pussy and take responsibility for what you truly believe.

[/trolling]

4/30/2008 7:59:12 PM

If you thought the concept of God is stupid. What about the concept of ghosts! I'd like to see a soapbox thread debunking, mocking, and belittling ghosts, spirits, aliens, and the paranormal like...

Quote :

"Are ghosts willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then they are not friendly ghosts. Are they able, but not willing? Then they are malevolent ghosts. Are ghosts both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil spirits? Are they neither able nor willing? Then why call them ghosts?"

4/30/2008 11:37:08 PM