Awarding automatic citizenship to the children of foreign nationals or illegal immigrants born on "US soil"

6/22/2008 7:26:26 PM

It made sense in 1776.

6/22/2008 7:34:27 PM

but the question is, does it make sense now?

6/22/2008 7:36:39 PM

probably not, but that would take an Amendment to the Constitution.

6/22/2008 7:42:25 PM

Which part of the constitution is the language contained in?

6/22/2008 7:52:11 PM

The 14th amendment, ratified in 186?.

It was meant to ensure that freed slaves and their descendents were recognized as US citizens.

6/22/2008 8:00:20 PM

whatever

who gives a shit about the Constitution, anyway?

6/22/2008 8:12:05 PM

1868.

The only thing the constitution says in the original document (which was ratified in 1789) is that Congress can "establish a uniform rule of naturalization." So I double self-pwnt on that one.

6/22/2008 8:13:54 PM

they need to make a new constitution...that shit from the 1700's just aint cutting it anymore

6/22/2008 8:16:14 PM

if we wanted to change the Constitution, we could just change the one we have, since that's the way it's designed.

it's way easier to just ignore it, though

6/22/2008 8:17:15 PM

^^ do tell, DNL, what your changes would entail.

6/22/2008 8:20:55 PM

^^thats what i'm saying...seems like we could basically plagiarize it and make it up to date on todays standards

6/22/2008 8:25:50 PM

Quote :

"it's way easier to just ignore it, though"

well, we pretty much have in terms of civil liberties. perhaps the whole bearing arms thing will be next.

6/22/2008 8:29:33 PM

i hope so

guns are bad and kill people

6/22/2008 8:31:10 PM

drunknretarded strikes again!11!!

6/22/2008 8:32:25 PM

wlfpk4life contributes nothing to a thread but kneejerk personal attacks, as usual.\

suspend.

6/22/2008 8:40:46 PM

^ And it's Sunday too, he probably was just at Church this morning.

6/22/2008 9:03:30 PM

2 of the biggest flame baiters in the history of tdub complain about trolling.

It is to laugh.

6/22/2008 9:06:10 PM

And anybody who thinks my response is trolling obviously has no respect for our constitution or its farsightedness with regards to the individual rights that it protects. Considering the 2 douches that posted after me probably use the bill of rights a toilet paper, I'm not shocked they wouldn't get it.

6/22/2008 9:07:50 PM

i dont get why the dems dont use the constitution to show how fucked the republicans are

6/22/2008 9:15:15 PM

yeah that whole right to bear arms and freedom of speech and religion are some fucked up ideals

oh I forgot...turrists have rights too11!!!!

[Edited on June 22, 2008 at 9:19 PM. Reason : please, remember the terrorists]

6/22/2008 9:18:39 PM

stop derailing the thread and mouthing off without even attempting to make a point in the debate.

6/22/2008 9:37:56 PM

^^^ they don't want anybody to know that they ignore the constitution too. all of the federal lawmakers need to read the 10th amendment again. dangling carrots to make the states comply with federal demands in just a way to get around it.

[Edited on June 22, 2008 at 9:40 PM. Reason : ...]

6/22/2008 9:40:29 PM

yep. both sides are equally guilty. it's just a matter of which things they choose to be unconstitutional about.

6/22/2008 9:42:10 PM

Quote :

" Awarding automatic citizenship to the children of foreign nationals or illegal immigrants born on "US soil""

These kids will grow up knowing only American culture and ideals, why shouldn't they be Americans?

[Edited on June 22, 2008 at 10:23 PM. Reason : ]

6/22/2008 10:23:30 PM

well, they might be exposed to some other countries' culture, but they'll def speak english

6/22/2008 10:36:12 PM

^ being exposed to another culture doesn't mean they won't by and large embrace American culture.

Hispanic culture is very similar to American culture anyway, but i've never met an immigrant that wasn't born here that did "act" American or know all the things an American would know.

6/22/2008 10:38:34 PM

Quote :

"These kids will grow up knowing only American culture and ideals, why shouldn't they be Americans?"

Well if their parents are illegal, shouldnt the point be that they need to return to their home country?

6/22/2008 10:41:04 PM

Quote :

"i've never met an immigrant that wasn't born here"

aha neither have i?

do you mean never met a child born in america from immigrant parents?

[Edited on June 22, 2008 at 10:43 PM. Reason : met not meant]

6/22/2008 10:43:30 PM

^

yeah thats what i meant

Quote :

"Well if their parents are illegal, shouldnt the point be that they need to return to their home country? "

They're here illegally, if they cared about this point, they would have returned.

Besides, if we changed legislation to disallow citizenry-by-birth, then it would also come off as a "grandfather clause" type of thing. Secondly, what problems will it solve? There's enough unenforced or poorly enforced anti-immigrant legislation on the books that could force immigrants back or prevent them from coming that we don't need to add yet another piece of legislation that will be ignored (because hospital workers aren't going to want to call INS on a new mother to damn her new cute little baby to a life or poverty vs. the potential to be attorney general).

On top of this all, the hispanic immigrants are helping to keep the gene pool here fresh, which we're going to need against the asians in the coming century.

[Edited on June 22, 2008 at 10:51 PM. Reason : ]

6/22/2008 10:47:47 PM

we should turn illegals, and their children, into a renewable fuel source.

6/22/2008 11:11:55 PM

^I think that anyone on welfare should have to spend 8 hours per day pedaling a stationary bike hooked up to a generator, until they get a job.

-getting a ROI for our tax dollars
-economic boost because people will be scrambling to find jobs that don't invole pedaling 8 hours/day
-put a dent in our energy problem
-fewer disgusting fatbodies

[Edited on June 22, 2008 at 11:15 PM. Reason : ^]

6/22/2008 11:15:22 PM

Private Pyle you are a disgusting fatbody!

and

Quote :

"people will be scrambling to find jobs that don't invole pedaling 8 hours/day"

I lol'd

6/22/2008 11:39:26 PM

I agree this is bullshit and is an archaic practice from the 18th century. During the early days before mass cheap fast transit it had a legitimate purpose. However, in this day in time it is no longer needed and does more harm then good. For Christ sakes if the wife of douchebag president of Iran came over here pregnant during one of his official visits; if she gave birth the most outspoken critic of America; his son would be a US citizen.

Personally i do not care if jose wants to get $2/hr to build my fence. I do care though when Juanita can pop out 10 babies; who all now as american citizens can enjoy all the rights and benefits that the rest of us pay taxes for.



[Edited on June 23, 2008 at 12:09 AM. Reason : l]

6/23/2008 12:06:44 AM

Quote :

"Hispanic culture is very similar to American culture anyway, but i've never met an immigrant that wasn't born here that did "act" American or know all the things an American would know."

It takes a few generations. Poor immigrants generally live in ethnic enclaves where the old culture is still dominant. Personally, it wouldn't bother me as much if we had a tighter control on immigration.

A bigger beef that I have with immigration policy is the whole wet foot/dry foot nonsense.

6/23/2008 12:18:54 AM

how many generations until a family can a real american child?

6/23/2008 12:21:00 AM

A few. There isn't a set number.

In regards to the recent influx of hispanics, I'd say that it's going to be more dependent on the kids getting a good education and being able to have jobs not based on manual labor. Once they're able to move out of communities where spanish is still the primary language and latin culture is still dominant things should progress fine.

6/23/2008 12:30:55 AM

Quote :

"HUR: Personally i do not care if jose wants to get $2/hr to build my fence. I do care though when Juanita can pop out 10 babies;"

how many times are you going to continue to parrot this shit. do you think it gets funnier and funnier, by the hundredth time you post this ignorant, self-righteous, racist crap?

6/23/2008 2:13:44 AM

Quote :

"I think that anyone on welfare should have to spend 8 hours per day pedaling a stationary bike hooked up to a generator, until they get a job. -getting a ROI for our tax dollars -economic boost because people will be scrambling to find jobs that don't invole pedaling 8 hours/day -put a dent in our energy problem -fewer disgusting fatbodies"

Quote :

"TOTALLY AWESOME IDEA"

6/23/2008 2:23:33 AM

^^

6/23/2008 2:30:35 AM

Quote :

"It takes a few generations."

Umm... no. In most places it takes 1 generation, and often less.

Quote :

"Poor immigrants generally live in ethnic enclaves where the old culture is still dominant. Personally, it wouldn't bother me as much if we had a tighter control on immigration."

This only applies to certain limited areas. Even in NC where we have tons of immigrants, you don't find too many of these enclaves that are isolated. And in any case, the kids grow up in normal schools, speaking English, making friends with Americans, and working with Americans. Just because their parents and maybe neighbors speak english doesn't mean they don't integrated with American culture.


-http://www.popcouncil.org/PDR_LinguisticLifeExpectancy.pdf

6/23/2008 2:32:11 AM

well if it was as difficult to enter the country "legally" 100 years ago as it is now and you had to wait a few generations to gain citizenship if you were born here then I think I might be the first generation out of my moms family who's a citizen.

HURRAAYYYYYYY!!!!!!!

6/23/2008 8:53:57 AM

Quote :

"Just because their parents and maybe neighbors speak english doesn't mean they don't integrated with American culture"

engrish much?

6/23/2008 12:19:55 PM

It's because we went with Ernest Renan's subjective nationality as opposed to Johann Fichte's objective nationality.

Why did we and continue to do this? Because subjective nationality is not based upon a racist precept the same way objective nationality.

What is after all American? We do not have a common culture or heritage. We are the mutts of the world. If we were to go with an objective nationality, what would it be? The objective nationality supported by the Klan, White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestants? Well, we just left out the native americans, the catholics, the jews.

I will still with Renan's definition of nationality and oppose the Fichte version.

6/23/2008 12:30:17 PM

i too like the bicycle idea. We can use all the empty factory buildings.. Just fill it full of bikes and get to work.

6/23/2008 12:35:36 PM

Quote :

"I think that anyone on welfare should have to spend 8 hours per day pedaling a stationary bike hooked up to a generator, until they get a job. -getting a ROI for our tax dollars -economic boost because people will be scrambling to find jobs that don't invole pedaling 8 hours/day -put a dent in our energy problem -fewer disgusting fatbodies"

That's the funniest thing I've ever read.

6/23/2008 2:43:31 PM