Dear lord it was fun.

There were only ~40 cars, so I got just about 2 hours of track time today. Tomorrow I should get close to 3 hours of track time. The course was WAY better than I expected, really tight and technical for a lot of it, and really pushed the Lotus a good bit

My tires got super melty, but kept pretty good traction for street tires, and the brakes were friggin awesome, no fade, amazing bite and very consistent.

Track Video (not my car) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RCo5BwORIM

9/15/2008 9:59:41 PM

Congrats! Sounds like a good day!

9/15/2008 11:02:38 PM

glad you had fun and hope you learned a lot.

best part about 2 day events.... taking your rotors back to autozone and replaced for free

9/15/2008 11:05:58 PM

not sure if it was mentioned in the other thread...but start a journal if you plan on doing this a lot. Record surface, weather conditions, tire pressure (cold and hot) and how the car behaved etc.

and be sure to check your tire pressure after every session while they're still hot.

9/16/2008 12:11:06 AM

aww i wish you had your own video for us to critique That track looks pretty awesome.

What tires and pads? I know you think you are, but its highly unlikely you were even using the brakes on your first day of HPDE goodness. Did you get a chance to ride w/ an instructor? Very eye opening and incredibly valuable. Ride with different ones if you can. Avoid the ones who feel overly aggressive/violent, theyre slow. I've had like.. i dunno 12 or so instructors and only one so far stands out at being truly smooth in both inputs and with G forces around the circle. And that was Mike Skeen and he's damn good and damn fast.

I rode a session w/ the Lotus Elise test driver at VIRF once. Very capable cars

Have a good second day and don't be afraid to take it easy and relax a little in the last session. 3 hours in a day is a lot and pretty damn exhausting. Finish the weekend on a positive note

9/16/2008 2:16:24 AM

Day two done!

I spent a lot of time today on the service roads learning, then practicing heel-toe. By my third run, it was REALLY translating on the track. I was carrying way more speed into the turns (10-15mph faster through nearly every turn on the track), and was much more fluid during breaking, shift and turn-in.

I switched up instructors as well, and the new guy really taught me a lot in using throttle control to help point the car coming out of turns. Less steering (understeer) and more acceleration (slight oversteer, but really bring the car neutral).

Also, Dan you weren't kidding on the brakes. I used them 2-3x as hard today. Yesterday I was hitting ~110 on the front straight, today I was hitting ~125 and beginning to brake a good 2 car lengths LATER than yesterday. Back straight went from ~80 to ~90-95, with similarly much much harder braking.

Also spent some time on the skid pad today doing figure 8's, and on the spin circle learning spin control (got it down pretty well, I was doing 3-4 full spins within a foot of the cone before powering out)

Tires are Toyo Proxes 4 which held up pretty well, they heated nicely, gummed up, and never felt like they were losing stick on the track. Still waiting on the R888's, but honestly better tires probably would have done more harm than good, by keeping me from really feeling the benefits of choosing the right lines.

Brakes are PAGID RS-14 (chart) ceramic pads, and they were damn beautiful on the track. Absolutely no fade, very minimal wear and TONS of bite.

Today there were only 6 cars in the novice group because so many guys moved to solo with the intermediate group, and then got their asses whipped. I stayed with the instructors and my last run today was blistering. can't wait to get back there, now that I can do lap days for cheap. And its only 45 minutes from my house. Now to try out VIR and Mission, each about 2 1/2 hours, just in opposite directions.

9/17/2008 3:19:34 AM

Quote :

"Tires are Toyo Proxes 4 which held up pretty well, they heated nicely, gummed up, and never felt like they were losing stick on the track. Still waiting on the R888's, but honestly better tires probably would have done more harm than good, by keeping me from really feeling the benefits of choosing the right lines."

yeah, for sure stick with stock everything your first 1 or 2 events. IMO you need to see EXACTLY how stock systems work to see the improvement with a newer add-on.

you'll love the R comps. Once you put them on, you'll never want to drive on track without them. they'll last you a loooooong time if you dont shave them. at your level you wont need to shave them. i ran some RA1s (used, never shaved) I got like 4 HPDE's out of them. I still have them, i can probably run another.

The only upgrades i did (if you wanna call them that) are the brake system. SS lines, pads and fluid. Autozone rotors (2 year warranty, swap them out after each day of tracking ), and some Ric0r pedal covers.

granted its not the fastest car, but it sure feels like it.. kinda like a civic if you ask me

[Edited on September 17, 2008 at 8:07 AM. Reason : ]

9/17/2008 8:06:08 AM

Fortunately rotors are covered by warranty, but the pads aren't. I didn't see much visible wear on the pads, there's still a lot of pad left on all 4 corners.

Definitely have thought about getting the SS brake lines though, the are pretty cheap and probably well worth it.

9/17/2008 3:52:12 PM

The only track event I've ever been to I used a set of Faulken Azenis. I knew people said that when they overheat they get slippery. It was a hot day (around 90) and I did 4 20 minutes sessions. Put about 120 miles of track driving on them and they did great. They're probably good for another 3-4 track days easy. I'm sure the light weight of the car didn't hurt (though its no Exige!).

9/17/2008 4:24:04 PM

I've personally had more than one SS line fail. I've never had trouble with stock lines. Truth be told, even on a "track only" car, if the stock lines are in good shape, I doubt you could tell a difference.

9/17/2008 4:33:35 PM

Hrmm, yeah, I guess leave well enough alone.

On a sidenote, I've never really understood when people call a car "point and shoot" versus a "momentum" car. Well, I do now.

In my novice group there were several distinct types of cars, and it was pretty cool to see how differently the Lotus works on the track.

2007 Nissan 350z: This is a point and shoot car. The guy driving it was a REALLY good, natural driver. He was from the country, grew up doing a good bit of street racing and parking lot antics. As much as I hate to admit it, it really helped him on the track. He has incredible car control, and really knew the limits of the z. The car went into limp mode several times during the weekend, which sucked for him and was a little scary watching from behind.

I would begin braking a solid 3-5 car lengths after him, and could carry a good 5-10mph more through to the apex than he could. But once the apex came, he could roll on the throttle and absolutely blast out of the corner. We ended up being pretty even through a lap by the last run of day 2. It was a lot of fun shadowing each other to see the different car dynamics.

2006 Subaru wagon: STI shortblock, chipped, exhaust, turbo'ed. Car was slow as hell on the straights, but the AWD really shined in the sweeping turns. Carried more speed to apex, but understeer really killed him in powering out. Really, really slow in the hairpins (more understeer). I don't think this track really favors AWD vehicles. The Evo in the advanced group was doing pretty poorly as well.

??? NSX: no idea of the year, but mostly stock. Ran really well. Much better mid/top end acceleration, he would lose me on both straights even though I was carrying WAY more speed through the turns. All the stock NSX's were bears in the hairpins. Really bad understeer, slow and prone to snap oversteer powering out. Good in the sweeping turns, mostly due to wide tires and good downforce.

??? NSX: this one was putting out 380hp to the wheels. It was awful. He spun at least twice and almost put the car off into the woods. Too much power, too little downforce to compensate, and street tires/brakes. He ended up having to go entirely too slow because he couldnt regulate the throttle enough to carry speed through no-lift sections.

Teh Lotus: I was absolutely amazed at the capabilities of this car. I never spun, and only had one bout of squirrly behavior when downshifting a little late into a turn. You could feel exactly what the car was doing at all times, I could feel the oversteer powering out of turns and pointing the car back to straight. I could feel the balance of the car from front to rear, and the loading on the suspension. The tires were very easily heard when I was running a little wide or scrubbing too much speed in a turn.

I still have no idea what the actual limits of the car are in it's current setup. Every lap I would push it a little harder, and every lap it remained absolutely under control, no wheel chatter, no wobbles, no tires screaming from understeer, no snap oversteer coming out. I swear I was breaking at like 7.5/8 on the front straight and I still think I could have braked later and harder without any ill effects. Never hit the ABS "ice mode" slide that I've heard horror stories about, and when the throttle was on, it felt absolutely glued to the ground.

9/17/2008 6:09:27 PM

Beautiful man. I'm glad you had an awesome experience.
Maybe once the 944 is ready to see the track, I'll do a HPDE course first. I'm sure there's a lot that can be learned there that will help when attending future auto-x events. Did the Z make you want more power?


[Edited on September 17, 2008 at 6:40 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2008 6:39:22 PM

I'm glad you had fun, good of you to take the car to the track and learn how to properly drive it. I forget if you've done auto-xes with it, but if not I'd highly suggest a few of those (and some skidpad sessions as well).

Reality check-->with a good driver the Evo should be very fast.

I try to go to a track event every few weeks. I return to the U.S. at the end of this month, and I'm sure I'll be at VIR often. You're welcome for a ride along if you'd like. As Dan suggests, it's good to ride with different instructors.

Anyway, compared to some of the ridonculous equipment that's been showing up at track events (supercharged e46 m3, C6 Z06, 911 GT2, etc.) I wouldn't get used to calling a 350z a point and shoot car. The upside for you is your Lotus, though it has high limits, will encourage you to carry more speed through a turn and brake later. Down side is, there'll be people you can't pass cleanly in some straights b/c of the HP deficit. You'll still probably have more fun though, light weight usually equals bigger smiles on track.

9/17/2008 6:40:56 PM

yeah I spent a while on the skipad yesterday, it was as much fun as being out on the track. I can't say that I've really ever been interested in autocross, just doesn't really do it for me.

And yeah I was just making the comparison between my driving line and style, versus the Z. There were some stupid fast cars out there as well, but they were all really well balanced, whereas the Z really didn't have the overall balance and so he compensated with power out.

Does it make me wish I had more power? Actually not really. I'd much rather learn to carry momentum than learning to rely on the throttle to get me out of a bad line.

9/17/2008 10:02:38 PM

try not to make it a habit to watch other peoples lines.. if you had a Z, then it wouldn't be half bad. but its all good.

oh and yeah.. it seems like nearly everyone just looses interest in autoX. not saying its not fun... just doesn't tickle my fancy like an off roading civic does.

9/17/2008 10:19:50 PM

i watch, i definitely don't follow. Luckily the whole track had cones for the ideal line, and my instructors were awesome in helping me tailor a little tighter to the capabilities of my car

9/17/2008 10:26:54 PM

One day, when I have a bunch of spare money to throw around, I'll go to the track.

9/17/2008 10:36:12 PM

Its easier to just break out the game boy and play bill elliot's nascar racing.

9/17/2008 11:21:21 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNgFDEUqJk0

9/17/2008 11:24:49 PM

Quote :

"I've personally had more than one SS line fail. I've never had trouble with stock lines. Truth be told, even on a "track only" car, if the stock lines are in good shape, I doubt you could tell a difference."

I tracked my car when it had 235k miles. Stock brake lines. Felt fine. (hell, those brake lines are STILL on the car, lol)

9/18/2008 12:13:50 AM

Quote :

"On a sidenote, I've never really understood when people call a car "point and shoot" versus a "momentum" car. Well, I do now."

HOLD ON!

This is all false. Its very commonly said and observed, but the fact of the matter is that EVERY car is a momentum car and should be driven like one. A point and shoot line is the wrong line, as simple as that. I'm not an expert, but I arrived at this conclusion after reading Ross Bentley books, hearing Peter Krause speak, and talking to fast people like James Clay, David White, and Mike Skeen.

A point and shoot line is safer, easier, and gets it done for HPDEs, but preserving momentum is the absolute key to speed. Heck, an F1 car has about the best hp/weight ratio there is and you'll see them use ever millimeter of track space. Even big solid rear axles cars w/ 650hp like Aussi V8 Supercars use every inch of track. they do not point and shoot. btw, Watch turn 1-2 at VIR for good examples of this. You'll see clearly different lines, but those who do not track out all the way on exit are losing time.

This also brings me to the point about late braking and such. Once you get consistent and safe with moderately hard braking, forget about braking points and markers. There's no trophy for the latest braker. Youre better served by focusing on the corner and trying to carry as much speed as possible through it. Often when braking hard and late you over brake and lose all your momentum. So really don't look at markers, look into the corner and around it. through it. the braking will take care of itself. Think about it. braking and slowing the car down happens in a short amount of time over a short distance. preserving momentum/speed through a turn and getting on the throttle early multiplies and carries out of the turn and down whole next straight to the next braking zone. Which is more critical to get right?

Above when i mentioned smoothness and Mike Skeen, it really was incredible and unique. He was in a 318 E30 and i swear he didnt use the breaks... He so smoothly broke into the turn and turned in so smoothly and then added gas and came out that i swear he was drawing perfect circles if there was an accelerometer in there.

Again, i'm no expert, but since i started doing TTs, i'm half addicted to reading driving theory books and learning all the theory/physics i can. If i could drive the talk, i'd be schumacher

p.s. thanks, i miss my E30 even worse now.

9/18/2008 1:19:13 AM

physics? sh000000t...


i drive like i play ps3, i use the walls to brake and slow down.

9/18/2008 1:29:09 AM

Do you fly off the tops of Turn10s on PS3, too?

[Edited on September 18, 2008 at 1:33 AM. Reason : dds]

9/18/2008 1:33:20 AM

lol

i so was ready to roll the car. i still havnt fixed the susp.

i just take it to my old work every few months to align it, they keep telling me i need an upper control arm... i know, ill get it for next time..

9/18/2008 1:39:28 AM

Noen, sounds like an awesome time! What track were you at again?

Quote :

"I would begin braking a solid 3-5 car lengths after him, and could carry a good 5-10mph more through to the apex than he could. But once the apex came, he could roll on the throttle and absolutely blast out of the corner."

I'm a little confused here. The 350Z could accelerate out of turns faster than you? Your power to weight ratio puts him to shame, am I missing something here?

9/18/2008 7:45:45 AM

fast in, slow out

9/18/2008 7:57:44 AM