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 Message Boards » » let's all keep track of Northwestern football Page 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7, Prev Next  
ncstatetke
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gonna shock the world today

B1GCATS

11/23/2013 12:02:47 PM

ncstatetke
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we can post about basketball in here

12/3/2013 10:38:29 PM

wolfpack2105
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NC State just pissed all over Northwestern this week by a combined score of 145-109. Suck it. #OurWildcat



[Edited on December 6, 2013 at 3:29 AM. Reason : sdfd]

12/6/2013 3:23:32 AM

Bullet
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/aaron-liberman-makes-big-ten-history-wearing-yarmulke-050602763--ncaab.html

1/6/2014 3:54:14 PM

ncstatetke
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Ha! Nice bump

1/6/2014 8:36:10 PM

laxman490
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i remember some friends that when the northwestern/state game talking about the guy with the yamaka (sp?). apparently he never got off the bench.

1/6/2014 8:38:51 PM

ncstatetke
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congrats to Marquice Cole

1/19/2014 10:41:28 PM

Bullet
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http://college-football.si.com/2014/01/28/northwestern-football-kain-colter-labor-union/

i just heard on cbs news that they called the ncaa a "dictatorship".

1/28/2014 6:52:11 PM

ncstatetke
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I don't see this catching on anytime soon at public schools, but it's a good start

1/28/2014 8:51:51 PM

Ribs
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These kids aren't employees of the school. They have a voluntary agreement with the school for a free education.

Just speaking in general, college sports are going to hell. If/when they do start getting paid the quality of play will drop immediately and it will never be the same again. It's quite possible we've seen the high water mark for this level of play.

1/28/2014 10:54:05 PM

ncstatetke
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related note, it'll be interesting if the O'Bannon case goes to the Supreme Court

1/28/2014 11:03:34 PM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
"If/when they do start getting paid the quality of play will drop immediately and it will never be the same again. It's quite possible we've seen the high water mark for this level of play."


how do you figure?

and I'm certainly not the first to point this out, but what in the hell is a "free education" worth anyways?

1/28/2014 11:16:23 PM

Ribs
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Through the macro perspective the whole sport is completely altered by the mighty dollar. Player attitudes would shift, coaches' jobs would change drastically, and school's responsibility to the player would be too great imo.

Don't think for a second that some of the cost wouldn't get passed down to the loyal fan too. I'm not speaking for anyone else, but college sports would take a gigantic step backward for me. I'm already getting turned off by the money grabs left and right by both sides. College athletics is in a death spiral right now. At some point people forgot it's just a fucking game. It's a nice distraction at the end of the day or weekends, but it isn't "real life". The sun would still come up tomorrow if college basketball didn't exist anymore.

An education is whatever you make of it. If you make smart choices in field of study a promising career path is a high probability. It's invaluable if the athlete puts the work in and prepares for the 50+ years of your life after sports.

[Edited on January 28, 2014 at 11:33 PM. Reason : that sounds ranty. sorry.]

1/28/2014 11:32:44 PM

thegoodlife3
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but what if said athlete is asked to spend more time on athletics than academics?

and if the system is rigged to help said athletes meet a minimum requirement in order to devote a majority of their time to athletics?

Quote :
"coaches' jobs would change drastically"


how? are coaches unable to coach teams in the pros due to disparity of income? and some college coaches make more than pro coaches for gods sake.

[Edited on January 28, 2014 at 11:42 PM. Reason : it just doesn't make any sense]

1/28/2014 11:38:25 PM

Ribs
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That's a massive problem that needs to be fixed obviously. However, you certainly don't every athlete in that same struggle. The Russell Wilsons of the world can somehow manage to graduate early while playing two sports. I'm going to go out on a limb and say he didn't take a bunch of bullshit classes and cheat his way to that degree either. So that shines a worse light on those that can't get one undergrad in 5 years. Not everybody has the same IQ as him obviously, but every athlete can graduate if they really want it.

Personal responsibility has to come into play at some point. Schools can't be expected to hold your hand every step of the way.

edit: how wouldn't coaches jobs change? You have a pile of immature, already cocky guys and you throw salaries in the mix and all of a sudden they're losing control. What if a guy that puts in the work for 3 years finally get's what he thinks is a promotion and "starter's pay" and then all of a sudden a freshmen robs him of that spot in fall practice. How do you explain you're cutting his $$ after all that.

I'd dont have the time/motivation to go through all this with you. I'm only speaking for myself and I totally understand if you disagree

[Edited on January 28, 2014 at 11:49 PM. Reason : ..]

1/28/2014 11:45:37 PM

armorfrsleep
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NM.

[Edited on January 28, 2014 at 11:48 PM. Reason : . ]

1/28/2014 11:45:47 PM

thegoodlife3
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there are always exceptions to the norm

but a vast majority are getting taken advantage of in a very real way

do you really think colleges care more about the results in the classroom than results on the field/court?

one makes an insane amount of money more than the other

you're clinging to an ideal that doesn't reflect reality. do you honestly think you'd care less if college athletes were paid?

1/28/2014 11:50:34 PM

Ribs
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I would. But I'm already losing interest in college sports anyway. Too much money for such a shitty product.

Nobody would even watch this garbage that 95% of all colleges put on the court/field if our name wasn't attached.

1/28/2014 11:52:28 PM

ncstatetke
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Huge news!!

http://www.nusports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/012114aaf.html

1/28/2014 11:56:20 PM

thegoodlife3
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^^and that's the rub

that's exactly why they get away with what they do

it's a developmental league under the guise of "amateurism", which means absolutely nothing in 2014.

[Edited on January 28, 2014 at 11:58 PM. Reason : billion dollar industry with an unpaid workforce]

1/28/2014 11:57:14 PM

armorfrsleep
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Quote :
"but a vast majority are getting taken advantage of in a very real way"


I don't even know where to start on how wrong that is.

1/28/2014 11:59:14 PM

ncstatetke
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currently #53 recruiting class with only 14 signed. #10 safety, #12 TE, and #15 RB. rumor has it that when all's said and done, Fitz might get a top-20 class

1/28/2014 11:59:45 PM

thegoodlife3
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^^ go ahead, I'm listening

1/29/2014 12:00:39 AM

Ribs
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So do you propose that high school athletes get paid too? I'm mean, it's just a feeder league under the guise of amatuerism too, right? Where does it stop exactly?

1/29/2014 12:01:07 AM

thegoodlife3
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is there a nationwide body presiding over high school football, churning out billion dollar tv deals?

1/29/2014 12:02:43 AM

Ribs
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The NCAA is a non-profit. The individual contracts are held by the conferences.

You say they get nothing out of it. I say they get the tools for the 90% of their life after sports in a degree... if they choose to take advantage of it. The fundamental difference is that you think a college education is worthless apparently.

1/29/2014 12:06:07 AM

armorfrsleep
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Quote :
"go ahead, I'm listening"


The overwhelming majority of college athletes will have short or non-existent professional careers in whatever sport they play in college. Even if you narrow it down to revenue sports, only a small percentage of them will ever make a living playing that sport. It's up to the athlete to take advantage of a free education and turn that into a career outside of sports. Why should a 3rd string safety or benchwarming PF get paid on top of getting a scholarship? They aren't generating any revenue. For every Tim Tebow or Maurice Clarett who gets screwed there are a hundred kids who got the better end of the bargain but chose not to do anything with what they were given.

1/29/2014 12:09:02 AM

thegoodlife3
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^^ it's completely worthless if it isn't real. are you doubting that athletes chose a school for their athletic department over their academics? are you doubting that it makes more business sense for a university to make sure an athlete is compliant with the lowest possible academic standards than the highest possible academic standards?

^ your point makes sense if there were different tiers of participation expected for athletes who are expected
to make it to the next level, but there aren't. that's the exact point I was making. less than 1% make it to the next level, but 100% are expected to participate in the same rigorous schedule

[Edited on January 29, 2014 at 12:19 AM. Reason : it isn't that tough]

1/29/2014 12:15:18 AM

armorfrsleep
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Quote :
" it's completely worthless if it isn't real."


The whole point is that it's up to the athletes to make it real, they are complicit in getting a shitty education if they are majoring in Af-Am studies at UNC for example.

Quote :
"less than 1% make it to the next level, but 100% are expected to participate in the same rigorous schedule"


And people who don't have the same rigorous schedule leave school with 5 or 6 figures in student loan debt or have rich parents...life is full of tough choices for most people.

[Edited on January 29, 2014 at 12:22 AM. Reason : .]

1/29/2014 12:19:17 AM

Ribs
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Quote :
"it's completely worthless if it isn't real. are you doubting that athletes chose a school for their athletic department over their academics? are you doubting that it makes more business sense for a university to make sure an athlete is compliant with the lowest possible academic standards than the highest possible academic standards?"


It's a player's responsibility to himself to find the best possible choice and make the most of it. Don't blame the school for the kid's misguided priorities in life.

1/29/2014 12:20:02 AM

thegoodlife3
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how can you not blame the schools for taking advantage of the players' misguided confidence, because that is totally what they are doing. they aren't held accountable at all for the ones who don't make it, yet they are the first to prop up the few who do.

Quote :
"And people who don't have the same rigorous schedule leave school with 5 or 6 figures in student loan debt or have rich parents...life is full of tough choices for most people. "


and that's on them. they have plenty of opportunities to get scholarships, while bringing in waaaaaay less revenue than athletes. and even with that they aren't balancing free labor with studies

[Edited on January 29, 2014 at 12:27 AM. Reason : yeeesh]

1/29/2014 12:24:16 AM

Ribs
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Quote :
"how can you not blame the schools for taking advantage of the players' misguided confidence, because that is totally what they are doing."


That's ridiculous. It is in no way, shape, or form, the school's fault if this kid makes a stupid and misguided decision. He didn't fulfill his personal responsibility. That's 100% his fault.

1/29/2014 12:37:55 AM

thegoodlife3
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do the schools make money off of their misguided decisions?

should those players just not play sports at all? the schools obviously profit off of their decisions, regardless of if the players are successful after college.

[Edited on January 29, 2014 at 12:44 AM. Reason : still don't get why people are so put off by this ]

1/29/2014 12:41:38 AM

armorfrsleep
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Quote :
"and that's on them. they have plenty of opportunities to get scholarships, while bringing in waaaaaay less revenue than athletes. and even with that they aren't balancing free labor with studies"


So fuck the regular students because "they have plenty of opportunities to get scholarships"? That's beyond idiotic. Inflated tuition costs and student loan debt are a thousand times bigger problem for society at large than a small number of student athletes getting short shrift. You're all about personal responsibility for the average student but the athletes deserve endless excuse making.

Quote :
"do the schools make money off of their misguided decisions?"


The schools make plenty of money off the misguided decisions of young people in general, whether it's paying for out of state tuition for 4 years to get a B.A. in film studies or playing football to get a communications degree.

[Edited on January 29, 2014 at 12:50 AM. Reason : .]

1/29/2014 12:46:33 AM

thegoodlife3
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athletes aren't regular students

that's pretty obvious

and if that's your argument, it comes from a place of jealously, not reason

that's an entirely different argument that has little to nothing to do with athletes getting compensated

[Edited on January 29, 2014 at 12:52 AM. Reason : 50,000 people aren't showing up to see you present your thesis]

1/29/2014 12:50:47 AM

armorfrsleep
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Quote :
"athletes aren't regular students

that's pretty obvious"


That's certainly your argument, though I've yet to see you make a cogent point on why that means they have ZERO culpability in their own fate.

Quote :
"and if that's your argument, it comes from a place of jealously, not reason"


Not at all, but feel free to continue with the asinine assumptions

Quote :
"that's an entirely different argument that has little to nothing to do with athletes getting compensated "


It has a lot to do with it, you're just choosing to ignore the relevance because it suits your narrative.

Quote :
"50,000 people aren't showing up to see you present your thesis"


50,000 people aren't showing up to see ~40 out of the 85 people on football scholarships either

[Edited on January 29, 2014 at 1:01 AM. Reason : .]

1/29/2014 12:59:47 AM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
"It has a lot to do with it, you're just choosing to ignore the relevance because it suits your narrative."


my narrative is about college athletes getting compensated for the billions they bring in, not about bunk college loans and a broken system

you have yet to provide a single reason why athletes shouldn't be compensated while they are in school. other students are allowed an income related to the field they choose to be a part of, why not athletes?

I'm not advocating for athletes to be paid AFTER college, just during, and that is a bit of a big difference

Quote :
"50,000 people aren't showing up to see ~40 out of the 85 people on football scholarships either"


where have I advocated for a flat salary for every person on the team?

[Edited on January 29, 2014 at 1:10 AM. Reason : we're getting dangerously close to a "because that's how it's always been"]

1/29/2014 1:10:02 AM

armorfrsleep
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Quote :
"you have yet to provide a single reason why athletes shouldn't be compensated while they are in school. other students are allowed an income related to the field they choose to be a part of, why not athletes?"


I did, you just didn't like it. I think you can make a strong argument for increasing the value of a scholarship to cover the total cost of attendance and relaxing compliance rules about meals and such but the free education has value regardless of whether you or they don't think so. If you are on academic scholarship and have to maintain a certain GPA to keep it, you don't get paid for studying 5 hours a day to keep your GPA up. Really though they should just let kids go pro out of high school so the NCAA is not a forced feeder system.

Quote :
"where have I advocated for a flat salary for every person on the team?"


I'll believe an equitable system for paying college players exists when I see it, nevermind the myriad employment law issues with that idea.

1/29/2014 1:50:41 AM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
"but the free education has value regardless of whether you or they don't think so."


but if they don't think there's a value, how is there value?

there is an argument for the value of a free education for a student who doesn't have to concern themselves with training/practice/travel on a weekly basis, but there is zero value in an education for a student who just shows up and is then handed a diploma

and that's a universal thing that isn't athlete-specific

Quote :
"I'll believe an equitable system for paying college players exists when I see it, nevermind the myriad employment law issues with that idea."


you are aware that there are plenty of other performance-based salaries that exist in fields outside of sports, right? and that the reason why we're having this discussion in this thread is over the right for college athletes to form a union. a union in which they would be able to agree on a collective bargaining agreement, which would almost certainly deal with player compensation.

that is kind of how this whole thing started

[Edited on January 29, 2014 at 2:29 AM. Reason : gender-neutral]

1/29/2014 2:11:15 AM

armorfrsleep
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Quote :
"there is an argument for the value of a free education for a student who doesn't have to concern themselves with training/practice/travel on a weekly basis"


There are already restrictions on practice time, I don't know how you can do anything about keeping athletes out of the gym if they want to be there, and professors bend over backward to accommodate student athlete travel schedules currently.

Quote :
"but there is zero value in an education for a student who just shows up and is then handed a diploma"


For the millionth time you're ignoring the athlete's complicity in that process, they can choose to pick a hard major or one with good career prospects.

Quote :
"you are aware that there are plenty of other performance-based salaries that exist in fields outside of sports, right? "


Holy shit man, I've never heard of that. You realize it works differently for state employees right? And there's the whole gender issue, as it seems you're suggesting only paying male players in revenue sports which raises title IX issues among others.

I'm about to go to sleep but I'll pick this up in the morning



[Edited on January 29, 2014 at 2:33 AM. Reason : .]

1/29/2014 2:22:27 AM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
"For the millionth time you're ignoring the athlete's complicity in that process, they can choose to pick a hard major or one with good career prospects."


and for the millionth time, what good does an easy (or hard, for the matter) major do if an athlete is required to spend more time with athletics than academics?

Quote :
"And there's the whole gender issue, as it seems you're suggesting only paying male players in revenue sports which raises title IX issues among others. "


pardon me for throwing in a "himself" instead of a "themselves", but way to not address the union/collective bargaining issue at all

the system is fucked yet you want to keep it the same

[Edited on January 29, 2014 at 2:41 AM. Reason : so many edits after your edits]

1/29/2014 2:31:47 AM

thegoodlife3
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boom

3/26/2014 3:44:19 PM

Dynasty2004
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3/26/2014 4:58:02 PM

GingaNinja
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Lock this thread, NW football is now dead.

3/26/2014 5:36:24 PM

ncstatetke
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nah, NU is going to appeal and they'll drag that shit out for years

3/26/2014 5:37:44 PM

GingaNinja
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It should atleast affect recruiting bad enough yeah?

[Edited on March 26, 2014 at 5:48 PM. Reason : ]

3/26/2014 5:45:07 PM

ncstatetke
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I don't speak that language.

3/26/2014 5:46:03 PM

ncstatetke
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choking. come on, boys

9/27/2014 2:11:05 PM

ncstatetke
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10/4/2014 5:01:50 PM

rflong
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Great win today. Always enjoy seeing Wisconsin lose. Stave is right there with Driskel and Pete Thomas as the worst QBs in FCS.

10/4/2014 7:52:03 PM

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