Quote :

"There's a reason we don't have a direct democracy"

And this was indirect democracy in action. Yes, I know we need some kind of gov't action on this, but a massive bailout should be the LAST resort, not the first thing we try, rushed through on panic and fearmongering.

9/29/2008 2:51:47 PM

It seems to me like we are at or very close to "last resort" area.

If there is a run on commercial banks, shit will get real ugly.

9/29/2008 2:53:03 PM

But fearmongering works. It's the time-tested way to convince folks to accept your bullshit.

9/29/2008 2:53:51 PM

^True, there is fearmongering going both ways right now.

Neither scenario (taxpayer-funded 700 B bailout vs financial meltdown) is particularly pretty.

[Edited on September 29, 2008 at 2:55 PM. Reason : 2]

9/29/2008 2:54:34 PM

Grab an umbrella if you're headed down Wall St. today.

And this bares repeating for page 6...

Quote :

"GoldenViper: "We have to do x! We must do it now or y will happen!" "I don't know. X seems bad." "Yes, but y is worse!" "Oh, okay.""

[Edited on September 29, 2008 at 2:56 PM. Reason : Financial Patriot Act Fail]

9/29/2008 2:54:42 PM

and now they're leaving for a jewish holiday. excellent.

9/29/2008 2:57:05 PM

This is about the point where Bush asks for an emergency expansion of power and an open-ended extension of his term until he defeats this grave threat to our way of life.

And when I say "asks for", I mean "coerces congress with the threat of imprisonment"

[Edited on September 29, 2008 at 3:00 PM. Reason : 2]

9/29/2008 2:59:11 PM

nm

[Edited on September 29, 2008 at 3:02 PM. Reason : .]

9/29/2008 2:59:18 PM

I can see some bravery in standing up for this unpopular bill to try to fix a problem, and some bravery in standing against a bill that was being crammed down people's throats despite the problems it had. I don't care about blaming people one way or the other, I'd just like to see the next try come along reasonably soon and be built with the average person in mind while restoring liquidity to the market.

9/29/2008 2:59:42 PM

Quote :

""We have to do x! We must do it now or y will happen!" "I don't know. X seems bad." "Yes, but y is worse!" "Oh, okay.""

lol, agreed

9/29/2008 3:01:30 PM

Quote :

"The shit is going to hit the fan no matter what"

9/29/2008 3:01:33 PM

Quote :

"This is about the point where Bush asks for an emergency expansion of power and an open-ended extension of his term until he defeats this grave threat to our way of life."

Imagine havin no runnin water to drink
Chemicals contaminate the pipes leadin to your sink
Just think, if the grocery stores close they doors
And they saturate the streets with tanks and start martial law
Would you be ready for civil war
Could you take the life of somebody you know,
or have feelings for if necessary?

9/29/2008 3:02:42 PM

Quote :

"I'd just like to see the next try come along reasonably soon and be built with the average person in mind while restoring liquidity to the market."

I'd like to see the next try be built on ACTUAL NUMBERS instead of a BLIND GUESS, be supported and advised-on by economists (specifically, ones who weren't involved in getting us INTO this mess), be well-thought-out and not shoved in everyone's face, and involve as little spending of taxpayer money as possible.

9/29/2008 3:03:32 PM

BUT THERE'S NO TIME FOR THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

9/29/2008 3:06:20 PM

^^^
Fuck the goal and the party
Train yourself, clean your shotty
tell me what you gonna do to get free?

[Edited on September 29, 2008 at 3:08 PM. Reason : arrows]

9/29/2008 3:07:41 PM

Quote :

"I've heard lots of phony stories. Much of the country's political and economic leadership has been running around raising the prospect of the Great Depression and a breakdown in the banking system (I actually had taken the latter seriously). These stories are absolutely not true."

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds-&-columns/op-eds-&-columns/why-bail-the-banks-have-a-gun-pointed-at-their-head-and-are-threatening-to-pull-the-trigger/

9/29/2008 3:07:51 PM

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml

Roll Call vote for the Bailout, so you can reward or punish accordingly.

Miller and Price both voted Aye

9/29/2008 3:14:30 PM

Patriot Act
Iraq War
Big a$$ bailout


Shame hat it took the other two for folks to wise up about the crying of wolf...at least 3rd time's a charm.

9/29/2008 3:18:11 PM

^Given that this is easily the most important issue of the three, I'm glad it happened when it did.

(I say this because it is the only one that has any tangible impact on the lives of average Americans)

[Edited on September 29, 2008 at 3:22 PM. Reason : .]

9/29/2008 3:20:18 PM

I think the Patriot Act is a lot worse than people realize.

9/29/2008 3:22:03 PM

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds-&-columns/op-eds-&-columns/why-bail-the-banks-have-a-gun-pointed-at-their-head-and-are-threatening-to-pull-the-trigger/

I really hope this guy is right. He does get to the root of the problem. It sounds like he is underestimating the potential damage from a financial meltdown, however.

9/29/2008 3:24:29 PM

Kucinich voted against it.

9/29/2008 3:24:56 PM

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/26/news/economy/easton_backlash.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008092811

Gives a pretty good story on the populist ideals rising to the surface of politics again.

It is three pages, fyi- I justify that by saying its the same length as teh original bailout request

Quote :

"Gingrich argues that the rise in American populism is not a revolt against business alone but a revolt against all elites, including government and media elites. In his mind this is the age of the populist Andrew Jackson, not the socialist Eugene V. Debs. "We have a national establishment that talks to itself," he says, "an elite that is dramatically out of touch with the people in a way that is not sustainable." By this thinking, Wall Street veteran Paulson touched off a populist revolt not only in the substance of what he proposed, but also in the style in which he proposed it - massive Treasury spending with minimal congressional control and no judicial oversight, which critics condemned as a "power grab.""

[Edited on September 29, 2008 at 3:28 PM. Reason : .]

9/29/2008 3:25:21 PM

So how soon until stores no longer accept checks and my ATM card stops working?

9/29/2008 3:30:33 PM

Quote :

"I really hope this guy is right. He does get to the root of the problem."

I can verify that the folks at CEPR identified and started complaining about the housing bubble long, long ago. They've been predicting problems for ages now. Disaster didn't come quite as quickly as they expected, but they saw it.

9/29/2008 3:32:52 PM

^^These are investment banks failing, not the banks who handle your checking (for the most part).

And if those banks ever do go down, the FDIC exists to insure your deposits.

[Edited on September 29, 2008 at 3:36 PM. Reason : for the most part]

9/29/2008 3:34:28 PM

Looking at this rationally, there are far, far better ways to spend $700B. Things that can get the economy back on the right track much sooner than prolonging the certain deaths of banks I don't give a shit about.

9/29/2008 3:36:03 PM

^^^^^ good read

9/29/2008 3:37:40 PM

Quote :

"Patriot Act Iraq War Big a$$ bailout "

The difference with the last is dems and Bush seem to be on the same page. Against in fear of upsetting their base; conservative Repubs are pretty much in mutiny of the wishes of King George W II

9/29/2008 3:38:21 PM

Quote :

"Looking at this rationally"

Is there ever a time when it is appropriate or better to look at things irrationally?

9/29/2008 3:38:35 PM

^^ are you serious

Dems are NOT in agreement, if they were, they could have passed it. last I checked, 40% of House Democrats did not vote for the bill

9/29/2008 3:40:51 PM

double the amount of the GOP.

9/29/2008 3:43:30 PM

Quote :

"Looking at this rationally, there are far, far better ways to spend $700B."

True, now the government will be able to provide us with the best soup lines and homeless shelters money can buy!

9/29/2008 3:44:32 PM

Quote :

"^^These are investment banks failing, not the banks who handle your checking (for the most part)."

I hope you are aware of the fact that the i-banks are already gone. If not you need to get caught up on the news. The risk going forward is that commercial banks follow suit.

As I asked before, how long until my ATM card stops working? 1 week? 1 month? 6 months? I'm curious.

And don't act like the FDIC can cover all this. Lets stick to reality here.


[Edited on September 29, 2008 at 3:47 PM. Reason : 2]

9/29/2008 3:46:14 PM

If ATMs stop working, there will be panic on the streets.

9/29/2008 3:50:24 PM

Quote :

"As I asked before, how long until my ATM card stops working? 1 week? 1 month? 6 months? I'm curious."

Well, how much money is in your account? And how much do you typically take out every week?

I can't be expected to do math without the numbers.

9/29/2008 3:50:31 PM

aha touche.

The point is that if there is a run on commercial banks and they can't get a loan from other banks or the government, then they will shut down everything, including YOUR bank account, and hope that the government can fix it.

9/29/2008 3:52:45 PM

We'd better all make bank runs immediately.

That's the only solution.

9/29/2008 3:54:26 PM

are you serious golden?

9/29/2008 4:00:09 PM

^^^Ah, you're asking how long until there's a temporary spending freeze on accounts... My guess is that it won't get to that stage. Granted, it could, if the government chooses to do nothing whatsoever.... but voting down the bailout is not equivalent to voting for inaction. It was a vote against panic and foolishness.

There will be (and already have been) new plans to come out of the woodworks, and I'll be very surprised if at least one of them doesn't get approved. And hopefully none of them will involve throwing $700 billion around for no better reason than "We just wanted to choose a really large number."

Assuming that nothing at all gets approved, we're still in better shape than we would be if this bailout plan had passed.

[Edited on September 29, 2008 at 4:00 PM. Reason : .]

9/29/2008 4:00:10 PM

I would bet my life savings (now worth $12.50 yesterday's dollars) that he is not serious

9/29/2008 4:00:59 PM

Quote :

"I would bet my life savings (now worth $12.50 yesterday's dollars) that he is not serious"

But the only way to insure that you can pay up on that bet would be to run to the bank right now and take it out of your account.

9/29/2008 4:19:23 PM

Dont forget to fill up with gas.. bc there will be no gas in the world by wed.

So if we lost 9% today, you had a TON of money in market action.

9/29/2008 4:21:00 PM

Dow down almost 800 points for the day.

9/29/2008 4:24:22 PM

^Why? Because it was watching the bailout voting.

"If you don't pass the bailout, the markets will erupt into chaos!"
Self-fulfilling prophecy of failure.

9/29/2008 4:26:23 PM

Well okay maybe not now

But in about 2 months when our money is worth the same as Zimbabwe dollars

9/29/2008 4:26:59 PM

How is not printing money going to cause more inflation than printing a whole bunch of it?

9/29/2008 4:35:22 PM

I wouldnt be so sure that not passing this will crush the US dollar. I dont think blowing out 700 billion and assumign that debt will necessairly stabilize the dollar either

9/29/2008 4:35:50 PM

Biggest one-day loss ever.

This is the definition of volatility.

Will the American people demonstrate the definition of resolve?

Let's hope...

9/29/2008 4:46:52 PM

9/29/2008 4:50:24 PM