I've got land. I would have to get a lumber company to com in, first, but...

How feasible would making my own ethonal be? Would it be cost effective? Legalities?
http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/
http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/
http://www.green-trust.org/ethanol.htm
http://www.myownfuel.com/

9/26/2008 9:44:04 PM

it's not that difficult...grow miscanthus (since you don't have to transport it anywhere, you'll get far more out of that per acre than you will out of anything else)

9/26/2008 10:00:16 PM

is this for your personal use or to sell and profit from?

if it is to run your own vehicles I suggest you look into bio-diesel and SVO and WVO conversions

using WVO you can drive your car for free as long as you collect from local restaurants

9/26/2008 10:03:34 PM

the problem w/ ethanol is trying to distill all the water out of it

9/26/2008 10:11:15 PM

Isn't that what the still is for?

I"m not sure if it would just be for me/family. I'm just researching, at this point.

Plus, I kind of like the idea of the farming



[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 10:22 PM. Reason : ]

9/26/2008 10:18:08 PM

yeah but no matter how many times you distill it there's gonna be some water

9/26/2008 10:20:17 PM

idk about ethonal, maybe you should try ethanol

9/26/2008 10:55:09 PM

durp durp durp

9/26/2008 10:57:42 PM

You can always add a drying agent to it like molecular sieves

Granted it may not get all of it out but it will be pretty close. Anhydrous ethanol is expensive to buy straight from aldrich or fisher.


You may be able to add Sodium or Calcium Hydride but Im not sure with alcohols and I dont have my chemical purification manual. We do that for THF, Methylene Chloride and Ether.


Im probably going to go into work tomorrow so I can check the manual and report back if you want.

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 11:04 PM. Reason : laksdj]

9/26/2008 11:03:46 PM

You don't need anhydrous EtOH. The stuff they sell for flex fuel cars is E85 - which is 85% EtOH. You'd just have to make sure your vehicles were set up to use it.

However, I thought it wasn't legal to make EtOH at home without proper permits, etc. You don't want the BATF on you!

9/27/2008 10:58:14 AM

it's been my understanding that virtually all ethanol blends in the US were made with anhydrous; although like ^ said, i've read that this is not necessary

9/27/2008 11:18:58 AM

^^ahh didnt know that about the E85 stuff

9/27/2008 11:37:50 AM

look into biodiesel. You don't need a license to make it like you do for ethanol.

9/28/2008 11:09:29 AM

fucking corn lobby

9/28/2008 1:52:58 PM

from what I understand, if you make your own biodiesel, and use it "on-road", you have to keep track of the gallons and pay state gas tax on it.

if not, and you are caught, you can be prosecuted for tax evasion

kinda like making your own liquor and selling it

[Edited on September 28, 2008 at 3:29 PM. Reason : parallel]

9/28/2008 3:29:04 PM

that is true of any fuel you make yourself.

9/28/2008 5:50:29 PM

but how would they catch you? all you have to say is that that's your first tank and you didn't make much

meh, i wouldn't worry about it...screw paying taxes

9/28/2008 6:48:18 PM

you're also supposed to pay taxes for pot.

9/28/2008 7:25:26 PM

I don't like that last website. Looks like it hasn't been updated in a long time. They want you to pay $30 to learn how to make a still.

Quote :

"You can make 1200 gallons of Ethanol with just 1 acre of suger beets! "

I thought it took a lot more land than that just to make a decent amount for use.

IMO, ethanol vehicles will not become any more popular. Save your money.

9/29/2008 1:13:33 AM

yeah, it's impossible to get all the water out of pure ethanol. i was always told that's why they mix in 15% gasoline (and so that you can't just drink ethanol from the pump since it's pretty much just moonshine).

in north carolina you can make up to XX gallons of ethanol/moonshine per year (don't remember how many) for personal use as a fuel. so never have more than that on hand at any time and always be on your first batch

[Edited on September 29, 2008 at 8:15 AM. Reason : something about gasoline dissipating the water.]

9/29/2008 8:14:57 AM

You can convert rectified spirit (95%) to absolute ethanol (99.5%) by refluxing with freshly ignited CaO for 6h, standing overnight and distilling with care to avoid moisture.


To get it further dehydrated would take a good amount of extra work that I will leave out.

You can also use Molecular sieves, CaH2, and calcium metal to dry it potentially up to absolute ethanol.


Thats about as good as you can get it but from what yall are saying you may not want to go that far because of the extra work involved.

9/29/2008 11:01:01 AM

you can get 97% ethanol out of a correctly designed still from a dilute say 7% feedstock. Problem is that stills arent very efficient youd be burning nearly the same amount of ethonol to keep the reboiler going let alone some ghetto condenser system.

Also all the talk about avoiding the 97% azeotrope is a moot point here.

Biodiesel is the way to go.

9/30/2008 4:52:39 PM

the best bet would be grow soybeans or another legume oil crop and make burn that in a diesel. corn takes a lot of nitrogen, and you cant get enough N from animal waste to make it long term without maxing out on the P index, that puts you buying N fertilizer and making it pointless.

9/30/2008 6:02:16 PM

the first step to great ethanol production is learning how to spell it correctly

9/30/2008 6:21:44 PM

actually, the first step is to realized that it is a crock of shit from a fucked up corn lobby and that it is pointless and it actually wastes more oil to make and distribute it

10/1/2008 3:41:22 PM

miscanthus is extremely voluminous, you are going to have to have a gigantic fucking still or several gigantic stills to accommodate that much grass. Also the turnover time might be too much to handle. Once the grass is cut you have to immediately begin turning into ethanol, you can't let that shit just sit

10/1/2008 3:59:27 PM

for some reason, i just thought he was talking about doing this for his own use, on his own property, at the same location as the source material

in which case, transportation issues are negligible

10/1/2008 4:00:48 PM

in regards to the production of alcohol, i think its legal up to a certain amount, and I believe that amount is 28L. Definitely can't sell it without permits

10/1/2008 4:01:49 PM

well no you don't have to take it anywhere, but you have to be able to stuff all the grass into the still. Depending on how much you are producing, this can be difficult. Like I said, it's going to take a very large still, or several stills, even for just 1 acre of the stuff. For his own use, he can size everything up to fit his needs probably, just have a garden of it rather than a farm. For commercial use, it's too expensive

10/1/2008 4:04:53 PM

a sugar solution (mechanically ground grass, corn, what have you and water) goes into a fermentor with yeast, something able to convert sugars to ethanol. you filter. then you distill.

10/1/2008 4:24:34 PM

Quote :

" i just thought he was talking about doing this for his own use, on his own property, at the same location as the source material "

This is my initial idea.

10/1/2008 5:43:21 PM

Quote :

"a sugar solution (mechanically ground grass, corn, what have you and water) goes into a fermentor with yeast, something able to convert sugars to ethanol. you filter. then you distill."

yep

10/1/2008 7:30:16 PM