http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/30/1468331.aspx

Quote :

"BIDEN VS. PALIN: WHAT'S AT STAKE The New York Times’ Nagourney looks at the stakes for Palin in Thursday’s debate. “The amount of time and staff power being devoted to [her debate prep] was evidence of concern among Mr. McCain’s associates that Ms. Palin’s early triumphs — a well-received convention speech, her drawing of big crowds — has been overtaken by a series of setbacks, creating higher stakes for her in the debate Thursday… ‘I think she has pretty thoroughly — and probably irretrievably — proven that she is not up to the job of being president of the United States,” David Frum, a former speechwriter for President Bush who is now a conservative columnist, said in an interview. “If she doesn’t perform well, then people see it.’” Meanwhile, the Washington Post writes a piece noting Biden’s penchant for making gaffes. “Unlike his Republican counterpart, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, Biden has not been shy about talking to reporters, but comments he has made since Obama chose him last month have presented Democrats with their own problems and revived the longtime senator's reputation for gaffes.”"

Will you be watching this Thursday? I almost wonder if this will get more attention than the first presidential debate since this in the first, last, and only vice-presidential debate.

McCain's camp seems to be trying to lower expectations (I heard something about them "accidentally" leaking info the press about how she isn't doing so great in her debate prep at McCain's estate in Arizona), and Biden has been saying we should give her more credit than she is getting. I just hope that he doesn't shy away from hitting hard when he is in the right, and a part of me would like to see a spirited debate amongst public servants seeking the second highest office in he land (although a part of me is looking forward to this weeks Saturday Night Live after this debate has occurred).

9/30/2008 3:38:58 PM

My predictions?

ZOMG PALIN COMEBACK KID! LOL.

No really, they are totally framing it so she can be all aggressive and full of zingers to revitalize a campaign that's a big fat joke and will lose anyway. She's got zero credibility and sucks.

Biden is good but he'll be too nice.

9/30/2008 3:49:23 PM

i agree, i think she'll try to push her pitbull image further. hopefully biden will call her out on her shit.

9/30/2008 3:50:26 PM

Quote :

"*Official* Vice-Presidential Debates Thread "

There can be only one.

9/30/2008 3:51:48 PM

Biden will crush her, but he has to come off not looking like he's beating up on a girl.

regarding the style of the debate, i read somewhere (maybe in the other debate thread) that the McCain camp successfully lobbied to change the format so there would be very short answers and no back-and-forth between the candidates. This just leaves less time for her to stick her foot in her mouth

9/30/2008 3:56:44 PM

Quote :

"No really, they are totally framing it so she can be all aggressive and full of zingers to revitalize a campaign that's a big fat joke and will lose anyway. She's got zero credibility and sucks. Biden is good but he'll be too nice. "

You're probably right, but it looks like you're already framing it like if she wins or even comes close to winning, it's because Biden was "too nice."

9/30/2008 3:57:21 PM

At first I felt that Biden should just sit back, give quick answers and direct the majority of his criticisms towards McCain, and let Palin do most of the talking in defending McCain. Basically let her dig her own grave.

But, after she bombed that Couric interview, it doesn't appear that the media has any sympathy for that woman. He should set out to completely destroy her. Go on the attack and call her out on every single ridiculous thing she's said in the past few weeks.

9/30/2008 4:01:33 PM

He better destroy her because how stupid will he look if the woman who has been put down by both conservatives and liberals in the media for not being fit to be vice president holds her own against the experienced senator.

She's really got nothing to lose because she's already a joke in practically everybody's eyes so getting embarrassed by Biden in a debate won't change much. The pressure is really on Biden to show that his experience means something and to avoid some of the gaffes he tends to make.

9/30/2008 4:05:25 PM

Biden, I know this is hard for him, just needs to say as little as possible in this debate. Give Sarah enough rope and she'll hang herself.

9/30/2008 4:11:40 PM

Biden is gonna look like a bully no matter how "nice" he tries to be. That said, he needs to absolutely crush her like everyone knows he can.

9/30/2008 4:14:12 PM

^^^ pretty much, though honestly most polls I have seen still show Palin with higher approval ratings than anyone else still, so I don't think the average American cares that some political pundits think she blew the Couric interview.

Palin can score a big victory in the debate, Biden can't. If Palin blows it, I don't see it hurting McCain anymore than she already has(which isn't much). Biden on the other hand, could hurt the Obama campaign much more(don't think he will).

[Edited on September 30, 2008 at 4:14 PM. Reason : .]

9/30/2008 4:14:25 PM

the majority of polls I have been seeing is that a majority of Americans do not think Sarah Palin is qualified to serve as either President or Vice-President with a majority saying her selection makes them less likely to vote for McCain.

9/30/2008 4:19:38 PM

Quote :

"It is true – at least on actuarial grounds – that John McCain is more likely to die in a first term of office than a President Obama; and ahead of Thursday's debate between Biden and Palin, Democracy for America (the group started by former Democratic Presidential candidate Howard Dean) has run a television ad showing grotesquely enlarged photos of McCain's scarred face immediately following his most recent operation for melanoma, with the punch-line: "John McCain is 72 years old and had cancer four times. Why won't he release his medical records?" As a tasteless way of terrifying the American public about the possibility of a President Palin, that certainly scores high on the sick-meter. But if Barack Obama does become US President, we should be very grateful that he is in such splendid physical condition. Nothing in Joe Biden's record, long as it is, suggests that he has the attributes one would wish for in a head of state. There would be plenty of laughs, though. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/dominic-lawson/dominic-lawson-why-should-anyone-trust-joe-biden-946127.html

9/30/2008 4:21:55 PM

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gWOdvVmTY8FsLydZhTx56KddZSWQD93GJDFG0

I guess you are reading into it what you want, but with Republicans and independents she is still doing well, not as well as she did at first of course, but she has been gang raped by the media like no one else that I can ever remember.

9/30/2008 4:24:24 PM

Quote :

"regarding the style of the debate, i read somewhere (maybe in the other debate thread) that the McCain camp successfully lobbied to change the format so there would be very short answers and no back-and-forth between the candidates. This just leaves less time for her to stick her foot in her mouth"

Yeah I think I heard something about that too. I think part of the format change was reducing a 5 minute response period into a 2 minute response period.

I think one tactic Biden can do is ask serious and tough questions of Palin during the interchange time. A tough statement saying "You are wrong & a bad person" may or may not backfire, but a better route might be a tough question like "In what ways do you think the context of historical conflict & current tensions in a certain region is affecting a particular world leader's views, and how can we use that to diplomatically relate to that leader, and what experience do you have in this arena?" or something to that effect that ask her to call up names, places, history, current events and how they interrelate.

9/30/2008 4:24:58 PM

^^ pay more attention to the polls lately...her favorability has taken a nosedive....rightfully so. she can't be taken unrehearsed as anything but a drastically unprepared and desperate vp. I hate to rag her so much but god man....its not just that shes unexperienced...shes just not a capable or eve very smart candidate.

9/30/2008 4:25:50 PM

Quote :

"something to that effect that ask her to call up names, places,history, current events and how they interrelate. "

I was thinking Palin could do the same to Biden, considering he likes to rewrite his own and can't remember his own country's

9/30/2008 4:27:13 PM

yeah, it has dropped dramatically, I wonder why, since everyone is bashing her every chance they get. It's fucking nuts. Couric had some loaded questions that, if you were unbiased, you could tell were asked to make her look bad.

But she is still viewed favorably by more people than she is viewed unfavorably by.

We will see how she does Thursday. Again, she has nothing to lose, and Biden has nothing to gain.

9/30/2008 4:31:00 PM

Quote :

"On the campaign trail, Gov. Sarah Palin jokes about listening to Sen. Joe Biden's speeches since she was in second grade. In a just-released CBS News segment, Katie Couric asks if that isn't an odd thing to say given her own running mate's age. Said Palin: "Oh no, it's nothing negative at all. He's got a lot of experience and just stating the fact there, that we've been hearing his speeches for all these years. So he's got a tremendous amount of experience and, you know, I'm the new energy, the new face, the new ideas and he's got the experience based on many many years in the Senate and voters are gonna have a choice there of what it is that they want in these next four years.""

OOPSIE-DAISY

9/30/2008 5:54:38 PM

just watched the palin-couric interview...

jesus christ, this is going to be fun

9/30/2008 6:32:20 PM

Quote :

"But she is still viewed favorably by more people than she is viewed unfavorably by. "

Why wouldn't she be? She's not viewed favorably by the right demographic though.

9/30/2008 6:51:57 PM

There are low expectations for Palin, so if she doesn't fuck up, she wins. With that said, I don't think she will be able to skate through this on the accent and a folksy tone.

9/30/2008 7:12:53 PM

her voice will be so annoying I will have to change in the first section she gets to talk for more than 1 min.

9/30/2008 7:16:08 PM

Quote :

"Couric had some loaded questions that, if you were unbiased, you could tell were asked to make her look bad. "

how is asking why Alaska's proximity to Russia gives her foreign policy experience a loaded question?

9/30/2008 7:39:36 PM

^^ closed captioning will be our friend.

9/30/2008 7:46:23 PM

I haven't kept my ear to the wall... do they know the questions that will be asked before hand? If not, the best thing the Democrats can do during the debate is invest in something that blocks all wireless signals, then just sit back and watch the show.

10/1/2008 7:30:00 AM

Quote :

"COURIC: I know you're heading to Sedona to work on your debate. What is your coach advising you? Gov. PALIN: I don't have a debate coach. COURIC: Well, what are your coaches? Gov. PALIN: I have quite a few people who are giving us information about the record of Obama and Biden, and at the end of the day, though, it is -- it's so clear, again, what those choices are. Either new ideas, new energy and reform of Washington, DC, or more of the same."

A lie, then a fail. Hilarious.

She needs to remember that she isn't the one running for President, and if she keeps talking against "more of the same," she's going to sabotage the campaign.

10/1/2008 9:07:10 AM

This woman could possibly be in charge of our nuclear codes people. Our nuclear codes!!!!!

10/1/2008 9:13:15 AM

10/1/2008 9:15:49 AM

Moderator for tonight tomorrow -- author of The Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama


I don't know why Democrats would even want her to do this because no matter what happens... the McCain campaign is going to complain about the moderator's bias, regardless of what questions are asked.


[Edited on October 1, 2008 at 9:19 AM. Reason : duhhh]

[Edited on October 1, 2008 at 9:20 AM. Reason : damnit]

10/1/2008 9:15:57 AM

i was gonna come running in here 30 minutes ago and post the drudge siren and everything

the debate is tomorrow ^

[Edited on October 1, 2008 at 9:18 AM. Reason : +]

10/1/2008 9:17:40 AM

this is a clip of Gwen Ifill commenting on Governor Palin's acceptance speech at the RNC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zafLsAtp_Q (embed plz)

Keep in mind, she works for PBS, which receives about 30% of its revenue from the federal government.

10/1/2008 12:55:57 PM

here's an article about Palin debating in Alaska
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7643879.stm

She is sounding more and more like Bush. There are videos of Bush during his debates in the 90's to be TX governor where he sounded great - he spoke fluently and in good depth about the issues. But as soon as he got to the national stage, he turned into a bumbling fool. Same thing might be happening with palin.

Quote :

"Ask nearly anyone in Alaska, and they will tell you that Governor Sarah Palin is a great debater. If anyone knows the challenge that lies ahead for Senator Joe Biden, it is Andrew Halcro, 44, who took part in a handful of debates with Mrs Palin during Alaska's 2006 gubernatorial race. "The one thing I found during the [2006] debates was no matter how knowledgeable her opponents were on the issues, it didn't matter," Mr Halcro told BBC News. "She has an amazing ability to turn a 45 second answer into a folksy story... she's never been forced to know the issues." Mr Halcro said Mrs Palin's biggest strength is her ability to "fill the room with her presence"."

Ifill needs to make sure the questions are answered and each answer doesn't turn into "folksy story" time

10/1/2008 1:12:37 PM

Quote :

"Ask nearly anyone in Alaska, and they will tell you that Governor Sarah Palin is a great debater."

She's a woman. It comes from years of arguing about toilet seat positioning and the zone in which pressure was last applied to extract toothpaste from the tube. Once she gets going, Biden will be lucky to figure out what's making her angry in the first place, he won't even be able to bring things like logic and reason to the table.

That said, the best thing Republicans can do on Thursday is to use some of that campaign money to get ABC to air the new Iron Man movie and get ABC to televise College Football.

10/1/2008 1:45:51 PM

^that was actually pretty funny. gg

10/1/2008 2:07:38 PM

Quote :

"She is sounding more and more like Bush. ... as soon as he got to the national stage, he turned into a bumbling fool. Same thing might be happening with palin."

which is why the base loves her, and will come out in large numbers to vote for her

10/1/2008 2:41:40 PM

^ I'm afraid the base won't nearly be enough to win this thing.

Registration numbers? Strong Advantage Dems
GTVO and Motivation? Strong Advantage Dems
Groundgame? Advantage Dems
Independent? Slight Advantage Dems.

I mean getting your base out is all well and good, but I feel like for this election of any elections, people will be voting their balls off. It's just one of those years.

[Edited on October 1, 2008 at 4:48 PM. Reason : - ]

10/1/2008 4:48:37 PM

Palin will just repeat the same talking points in the debate over and over again until the end of time.

"Yes, I am the New Energy"

"Yes, I am a reformer and by the way, you are not"

"Yes, I am totally ready to kick some terrorist ass"

"Yes, I am Sarah Palin, the GOVERNOR with executive experience"

"USA, USA, USA, USA, USA..."

10/1/2008 5:00:02 PM

Quote :

"this is a clip of Gwen Ifill commenting on Governor Palin's acceptance speech at the RNC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zafLsAtp_Q (embed plz) Keep in mind, she works for PBS, which receives about 30% of its revenue from the federal government."

Yeah, the user who put the video on YouTube got it right with the video information.

Quote :

"Gwen Ifill comments on Sarah Palin's speech at the Republican national convention. Is it just me, or is she visibly disgusted that she even has to report on this?"

She better hide her bias a little better than that during the debate or we'll have to hear complaints from the McCain campaign every day for a couple of weeks (and if she is THAT bad, then it'll be warranted)

10/1/2008 5:15:30 PM

McCain deserves to lose for picking her. Everyone knows shes his pick because she's a woman. She was already involved in that trooper scandal when he picked her and shes obviously mildly retarded. Its insulting to the American people if his campaign thinks they're fooling anyone with this obvious gimmick.

Just write in Ron Paul and skip the bs from both sides.

10/1/2008 5:18:31 PM

^ your vote for Ron Paul won't count for shit because he lost in the Republican primaries

10/1/2008 5:26:33 PM

Quote :

"people will be voting their balls off."

hahaha I just had to quote this.

continue with the "discussion"

10/1/2008 5:29:45 PM

Quote :

"Couric had some loaded questions that, if you were unbiased, you could tell were asked to make her look bad. "

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. like why does living in alaska give you foreign policy experience? so, if someone knows she has no experience, and asks about it (since she could in fact, be PRESIDENT) they are trying to make her look bad? that's probably a GOOD idea. if you can't answer the tough questions (and those.......were not tough) then gtfo...thats the entire point of interviews and debates.

there have already been articles (oh those aren't credible i forgot) comparing her to mr. potatoe himself. not a good thing. and he had trouble recovering (has he ever recovered???) in the public eye. like...i think america lost all faith. i think i lost all faith and i was like 5. it doesn't matter that he actually accomplished things while he was VP...if you don't have respect it doesn't really matter what you do. no one pays attention. they just pay attention to all the idiotic stuff you do. and i'm not even confident that she WOULD do good things and then just get hounded for her slip ups. i think she is totally disqualified, inexperienced, dangerous, whatever...and the fact that conservative columnists are saying so to REALLY says something i think. but who knows...they're probably being controlled by the liberal media in the giant conspiracy to make her look bad.

10/1/2008 7:05:55 PM

She's going to get embarrassed. Hopefully Biden doesn't come across as an asshole and somehow make her come out the winner.

PS - I'm voting for Barr.

10/1/2008 7:14:39 PM

you know he will.

gg sarah palin, setting women back DECADES.

10/1/2008 7:27:44 PM

Oh c'mon, you guys did that to yourselves with all the inconsistencies in "feminism." Let's not try to blame one woman for the failure of 2 or 3 generations.

10/1/2008 7:28:42 PM

did i say it was all her fault? no i didn't. was i being literal? no i wasn't. was i trying to point out that i think she is disqualified? yes. i could probably just change "women" to "humanity" or "americans" and it would work equally as well. again. not literally DECADES.



[Edited on October 1, 2008 at 7:35 PM. Reason : .]

10/1/2008 7:34:32 PM

You should be pissed a Hillary just as much if not more. When she pulled that crying bullshit it definitely knocked the idea of female equality down a few pegs. If you only want equal treatment when it's convenient or helpful then you don't really want equal treatment. You aren't allowed to ask me to treat you as an intellectual equal and then expect me to walk on eggshells and play nice nice when you start spewing a bunch of garbage out of your talk hole.

PS - We should have dinner some time, you seem feisty.

10/1/2008 7:37:33 PM

^ Male politicians don't get in trouble when they cry. The bullshit was how folks reacted, not what Hillary did.

10/1/2008 7:40:53 PM

Quote :

"COURIC: Do you think there's an inherent right to privacy in the Constitution? PALIN: I do. Yeah, I do. COURIC: the cornerstone of Roe v Wade PALIN: I do. And I believe that --individual states can handle what the people within the different constituencies in the 50 states would like to see their will ushered in in an issue like that. COURIC: What other Supreme Court decisions do you disagree with? PALIN: Well, let's see. There's --of course --in the great history of America rulings there have been rulings, that's never going to be absolute consensus by every American. And there are--those issues, again, like Roe v Wade where I believe are best held on a state level and addressed there. So you know--going through the history of America, there would be others but-- COURIC: Can you think of any? PALIN: Well, I could think of--of any again, that could be best dealt with on a more local level. Maybe I would take issue with. But you know, as mayor, and then as governor and even as a Vice President, if I'm so privileged to serve, wouldn't be in a position of changing those things but in supporting the law of the land as it reads today."

10/1/2008 7:42:00 PM