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packboozie
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Quote :
"Give me the best 10 players of the 90s vs the best 10 now. 90s> 00s.
"


No fucking way.

90s:

Tim Hardaway
Reggie Miller
Michael Jordan
Charles Barkley
Scottie Pippen/Grant Hill
Larry Bird
Karl Malone
Patrick Ewing
Hakeem Olajuwon
David Robinson

00s:

Jason Kidd
Allen Iverson
Dwayne Wade
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Kevin Garnett
Dwight Howard
Shaq O'Neal

Do you REALLY think that 90s team could win?

11/18/2008 6:40:24 PM

ItsNme
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^ i believe you forgot the best PF of all time

Tim Duncan

11/19/2008 8:34:53 AM

ItsNme
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Look I am a HUGE Kobe fan
and I think when all is said and done some of these statements could be legit


BUT STUFF STILL NEEDS TO HAPPEN:

- Kobe has to win at least one more title, and he really needs to win like 2 or 3 more

- Kobe needs to finish somewhere in the top 3 scoring all time

- needs a Finals MVP


* There is only one player who has ever possessed the skill set that Kobe Bryant has and that man is Michael Jeffrey Jordan. Michael has accomplished a lot more than Kobe has as of now. And that is the reason you have to tag Michael as the better of the two. But if you really watch closely these guys play the exact same way on both ends of the floor. Their intensity is matched by no one.

11/19/2008 8:50:33 AM

vonjordan3
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90s:

Tim Hardaway
Reggie Miller
Michael Jordan
Charles Barkley
Scottie Pippen/Grant Hill
Larry Bird
Karl Malone
Patrick Ewing
Hakeem Olajuwon
David Robinson

00s:

Jason Kidd
Allen Iverson
Dwayne Wade
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Kevin Garnett
Dwight Howard
Shaq O'Neal

Do you REALLY think that 90s team could win?



Some of those guys like shaq etc, can be used in the 90s as well. This is all "here say" anyways, but you have more in the 90s...

dream team > redeeeem team

11/20/2008 7:56:20 AM

jblee
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Thomas, Stockton, P.Hardaway gotta be there.

11/20/2008 8:29:01 AM

ItsNme
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Starting Lineups

90s

PG - Stockton
SG - MJ
SF - Sir Charles
PF - Mailman
C - Hakeem

00s

PG - Kidd
SG - Kobe
SF - Lebron
PF - Tim Duncan
C - Shaq

BENCH

90s

- Hardaway
- Miller
- Pippen
- Ewing
- David Robinson
- Penny
- Grant Hill
(Larry Bird played 1 and half years in the 90s, so he cant qualify)

00s

- Garnett
- Amare
- Nash
- TMAC
- Dwade
- Yao
- AI

Best of Seven Series

00s 4 games to 2 over 90s

11/20/2008 9:01:58 AM

ItsNme
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KOBE = best player since Jordan

11/21/2008 8:51:42 AM

packboozie
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Scottie Pippen as great a defender he was, could not guard Kobe or Lebron.

11/21/2008 10:30:13 AM

vonjordan3
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I love how many " Everything is better now in sports than before" guys we have on this site.

11/21/2008 10:34:32 AM

simonn
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00's allstars would kill 90's allstars. fact.

11/21/2008 10:59:36 AM

ItsNme
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Kobe/ Lebron > Michael/Barkley or Michael/ Scottie

there is no question about that

11/21/2008 11:05:08 AM

vonjordan3
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"00's allstars would kill 90's allstars. fact."


fiction.

Sorry guys, dream team > redeeem team

And at some point you will realize that NBA is not what it used to be, many fans stop watching after Jordan left.

11/21/2008 11:39:27 AM

BridgetSPK
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I started watching when I found out the NBA cares.

11/21/2008 12:16:50 PM

jbrick83
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You're on fucking crack if you think the old Dream Team would beat the current Dream Team.

Can we look at this roster again:

Laettner
Robinson
Ewing
Barkley
Bird
Pippen
Jordan
Drexler
Mullin
Magic
Stockton


Really?? Against Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Bosh, Carmelo, Howard, Paul, Williams, Prince, Boozer, Kidd, and Redd?? (not that Redd and Boozer hardly ever played)

Only chance the Dream Team would have would be Jordan going off. And I don't think he could drop 40+ with Kobe and Prince guarding him. And Paul would destroy Stockton.

[Edited on November 21, 2008 at 12:26 PM. Reason : .]

11/21/2008 12:26:01 PM

vonjordan3
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dream team would kill them, dude you are so fucking delusional. Redeeeam team couldn't even beat the shit out of Spain. That is with a whole hell of a lot more practice time in. LoL, wow, just wow.
You have to be like 18 years old or something because you can not tell the difference. What was the greatest team ever? the 96 bulls? how many white guys were on that team? why were they the best? You just don't get it.

At least Itsname has some sense, you are clueless


[Edited on November 21, 2008 at 12:43 PM. Reason : .]

11/21/2008 12:38:31 PM

jbrick83
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European basketball was garbage back then. And this year's team was blowing everyone out until the very end.

And this year's team didn't even have the dominant big men...Duncan, Stoudemire, Garnett?? I respect the shit out of the Dream Team...but basketball is different now. Players are bigger, stronger, faster. Big men can pop out and shoot the three, bring the ball up the court, and run the floor.

11/21/2008 12:51:46 PM

vonjordan3
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so basically your arguement is that Spain is better than the Dream team as well come on dude

11/21/2008 12:58:06 PM

simonn
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the current spain team would probably beat your dream team.

11/21/2008 1:02:40 PM

vonjordan3
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hahahahahaha im sure they would...

I am so wrong

i am sorry

Because Rudy Fernández >>>>>>> Jordan




[Edited on November 21, 2008 at 1:10 PM. Reason : .]

11/21/2008 1:06:38 PM

TreeTwista10
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vonjordan calls out people who have the "sports are much better nowadays mentality" while sticking to his "athletes will NEVER be as good as my favorite era" argument

I think Dream Team would beat the Redeem Team, but I really don't know...the only thing I know is that the Dream Team was playing against bunch of horrible basketball players in the 1992 Olympics, with Arvidis Sabonis being the best player they faced...Redeem Team is playing versus opponents whose countries have 16 years more basketball experience, and against a ton of NBA talent like Spain's team, Argentina's team, Dirk, Yao, etc

Dream Team was great because of all the stars, but they never played anybody worth a fuck...they got a bunch of pushover games against unathletic short white dudes whose most complex offensive play is a pick and roll

11/21/2008 1:13:34 PM

vonjordan3
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^ 100% agree with you tree. Except the My era part. 90s was better sorry. I do not say that in every sport.

But you know, some of these people on here think that the Dream team would just be an average euro team if they played now. Im not even gonna argue with them, either they love to troll, or they are just that stupid

[Edited on November 21, 2008 at 1:16 PM. Reason : .]

11/21/2008 1:15:43 PM

TreeTwista10
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this is one of the many sports arguments that can only be settled with a time machine

11/21/2008 1:17:42 PM

SuperDude
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I know that there are a lot of guys in the past who played the game well. Who were megastars in their time.

Some of you people...well, more specifically, vonjordan3, who can't think straight because he has MJ's dick shoved so far up in this throat, he can't comprehend the issue of human performance.

Players are better, stronger, and faster than they were 15 years ago.

Improvements in diet and exercise, and in overall health has allowed athletes to make massive gains (insert steroid joke here) in peak fitness, energy, and stamina. Run faster, run longer, jump higher, hang longer, muscle through fouls better, etc.

Could the dream team of the 90's play? Hell yeah. They were the dream team. There's no denying that. They have MJ, and he's a huge factor. This is a team that has toughness and heart, and it has to, to make up for some of their other shortcomings.

The players of today...LeBron is a freak. That's all I can really say about him. Kobe is Kobe. The bigs can run and have a more complete game. The guards are tougher, and the bigs are tougher than they are given credit for.

It's all speculation. We'll never really know how it could be. As the guys of the 90's played closer to the end of the decade, they were older, not as good. Were they simply struggling due to age? Did talent catch up with them? Did they come down to the talent?

All I know is that I've been an NBA fan since 1990, and that even through the struggles the NBA went through, I remained a fan. I enjoyed watching basketball games 15 years ago, and I still love watching them now. The game has changed. Offensive and defensive philosophies are different. But even I can witness the increase of quality in a player's abilities. I'm not talking about an increase in the quality of the game. Some people like this isolation stuff, some people prefer a whole bunch of passing like the college game. I'm talking about the players. They're simply much more athletic, and they still possess significant skill. They are better, and it shows.

11/21/2008 2:21:08 PM

packboozie
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Quote :
"so basically your arguement is that Spain is better than the Dream team as well come on dude"


How many players from Spain were in the NBA in the 1990s?

Now look at the Gasols, Fernandez, and Jose Calderon

11/21/2008 2:43:29 PM

vonjordan3
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^^ no, honestly, every year there is some mother fucker that is the next jordan. i am sure your stupid ass was a ( hardaway, grant hill, AI, kobe, vince carter, lebron....blah blah blah fan as well)

The NBA is the only fucking sport that compares some one who has not done shit in their careers yet to the elite player in the league. Hell some sports like baseball protect their elite players. It is douches like you that ride with that bandwagon that make it all possible.
PS. who won the championships at the end of the decade? THE OLDEST FUCKING TEAM IN THE NBA DUMBASS

^ I never said that spain was better back then, merely that the dream team would still kick the shit out of 2008 spain.

[Edited on November 21, 2008 at 3:00 PM. Reason : .]

11/21/2008 2:58:33 PM

Slave Famous
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vonjordan

more like von wafer

I agree with Tree that its impossible to definitively say which Olympic team would dominate

but the arguments put forth by some of you are Skip Bayless-esque

11/21/2008 3:00:13 PM

TreeTwista10
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Quote :
"honestly, every year there is some mother fucker that is the next jordan Dr. J"

11/21/2008 3:02:30 PM

vonjordan3
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had to do it tree

11/21/2008 3:05:52 PM

TreeTwista10
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^lol

i swear this shit is generational...to people in our generation, jordan was the best...but kids nowadays dont even know much about jordan...they know about kobe, lebron, iverson, etc because thats who they can see playing nowadays...jordan and magic and bird and those guys were before their time...back in the day old school cats had their Dr. Js and their George Gervins and Moses Malones and those guys are "their Jordans"

11/21/2008 3:09:32 PM

SuperDude
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Quote :
"^^ no, honestly, every year there is some mother fucker that is the next jordan. i am sure your stupid ass was a ( hardaway, grant hill, AI, kobe, vince carter, lebron....blah blah blah fan as well)"


Started off a Magic fan. Didn't last long since he retired in '91. Kobe fan next. I know his faults, and he's my boy, but I'm not enough of a cocksucker to defend him from every person who finds fault with him or his game. He's not the next Jordan, and I won't make that assumption til he gets to the end of his career.

Quote :
"The NBA is the only fucking sport that compares some one who has not done shit in their careers yet to the elite player in the league. Hell some sports like baseball protect their elite players. It is douches like you that ride with that bandwagon that make it all possible.
PS. who won the championships at the end of the decade? THE OLDEST FUCKING TEAM IN THE NBA DUMBASS
"


All I hear is a lot of whining about you and your boy Jordan. Was my post about Jordan? No. It was about the dream team. Again, it doesn't matter what we talk about...if someone makes a post about the 90's and Jordan, and they aren't praising your lord and savior, everyone knows you will be there to give him his proper due and reverence.

Anyone with a decent brain and a sense of statistics can forecast how a person's career is going to turn out. No one is going to be "better" than Jordan until they reach those stats. That's obvious. You can compare skills and speculate, and that's about it. Quit being such a pussy. No one is going to steal your childhood away.

By the way, those 98-99 spurs were old as dirt. They were also anchored and led by MVP Finals winner Tim Duncan, WHO WAS ONLY 22 YEARS OLD AT THE TIME. If you wanted to make a point about old players and younger players, you certainly picked a wrong team to choose. Try again.

11/21/2008 3:19:10 PM

vonjordan3
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Quote :
"Started off a Magic fan. Didn't last long since he retired in '91. Kobe fan next. I know his faults, and he's my boy, but I'm not enough of a cocksucker to defend him from every person who finds fault with him or his game. He's not the next Jordan, and I won't make that assumption til he gets to the end of his career."


I liked magic as well. Sorry on my behalf, I assumed you were one of those everyone is better than Jordan guys.

Quote :
"All I hear is a lot of whining about you and your boy Jordan. Was my post about Jordan? No. It was about the dream team. Again, it doesn't matter what we talk about...if someone makes a post about the 90's and Jordan, and they aren't praising your lord and savior, everyone knows you will be there to give him his proper due and reverence."


I made my comments about the Dream team; I simply disagree with you guys. There is a lack of team ball played anymore. Did Europe catch up in talent? Yes! Is that why our all-stars lost in the Olympics before 2008? No! They lost because they are selfish and can not play as a team. What teams win as of late (championships’) what do they have in common? Well the teams of the 90s had more team play which would have beat the one on one mentality of today’s game. On top of that, I would take the top 10 from the 90s over 00s off of talent and team play.
Is Kobe great...is Lebron, yes. I never said different. They are however not better than Jordan.

Quote :
"Anyone with a decent brain and a sense of statistics can forecast how a person's career is going to turn out. No one is going to be "better" than Jordan until they reach those stats. That's obvious. You can compare skills and speculate, and that's about it."


The media, and a shit load of kids, TWWers, etc. every year have the "new" Jordan coming out. That is merely something that occurs in this sport way to frequently. What is the title of this thread? Comments like that were made about Kobe, Lebron, AI, and vince carter before the even stepped on the court.

Quote :
"By the way, those 98-99 spurs were old as dirt. They were also anchored and led by MVP Finals winner Tim Duncan, WHO WAS ONLY 22 YEARS OLD AT THE TIME. If you wanted to make a point about old players and younger players, you certainly picked a wrong team to choose. Try again."


I guess I do not understand this part, you said in your last post that at the end of the 90s other teams started winning with younger more athletic players. yet the Bulls won 3 years in a row as the oldest team. And then the spurs won as one of the oldest the year after. Minus Duncan, I guess I do not understand.

Quote :
"As the guys of the 90's played closer to the end of the decade, they were older, not as good. Were they simply struggling due to age? Did talent catch up with them? Did they come down to the talent?"


Shouldn’t a younger team have won? Also, don’t forget that the jazz were old as fuck as well. Where were the young teams with all these supper genetic athletes (PS and Tim Duncan is a team player, you know that)

11/21/2008 3:49:19 PM

jbrick83
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Quote :
"so basically your arguement is that Spain is better than the Dream team as well come on dude"


Are you fucking dyslexic?? How could you get that out of what I wrote??

11/21/2008 6:33:34 PM

Prawn Star
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"This is all "here say" anyways"




I went to school with a bunch of idiots.

11/21/2008 6:55:13 PM

Slave Famous
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Don't put blanket statements on jbrick.

He'll habeus corpus the fuck out of you.



The main argument as far I'm concerned when arguing the 92 team vs the 08 team is the point guard position.

You can make valid arguments for either squad at the wing positions, where each team is stacked.

And the Ewing-Robinson-Hakeen trio could hang with any bigs the 08's could throw out there.

But Magic turns the tide in favor of the original dream team.

Paul, Williams, Kidd...all great players, and Paul could end up being one of the best of all time.

But Magic already was one of the best of all time in 1992.

Yeah, he came out with HIV in late 1991. But he went 29-9-5 in the all star game that year and was still one of the top 3 players in the game.

And at 6 foot 9, he could guard any international player on any roster, save for midget point guards.

2-5, I'd call the two teams a dead heat.

But at the 1, the 92 team takes the cake.

11/21/2008 6:57:12 PM

vonjordan3
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"European basketball was garbage back then. And this year's team was blowing everyone out until the very end."


Pretty fuckin easy

11/21/2008 7:24:30 PM

jbrick83
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So you just made up something that you would think I would say (which...by looking at your posts in NBA topics, seems to be a recurring theme).

Now I have to make it clear....

The "redeem team" blew out better European teams than the "Dream Team" did...but then struggled a little bit against Spain (a team with several NBA players) in the gold medal game.



But SOMEHOW....you got out of that....that the 2008 Spain team would beat the Dream Team. Gotcha...I see the tie-in there. My bad...

11/22/2008 2:20:04 AM

vonjordan3
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"The "redeem team" blew out better European teams than the "Dream Team" did...but then struggled a little bit against Spain (a team with several NBA players) in the gold medal game."


Pretty easy dude

#1. redeeeam team did not blow out teams worse than the dream team. They averaged winning by more than 40 points a game. Redeeam team was not even close to this. Why, yes the competetion level back then was not the same. It would have been even worse if the dream team had more than the one week of practice when they were thrown together. If they had practiced as long as the redeem team they probly would have won by and avgerage of 50 or 60. But yes the redeem team had to play better teams
#2. I do not think the dream team would have struggled against the better euro teams because of team-quality players on the roster.
#3.Because redeem team struggled against spain, which they did not have the game won until the very end. How in the fuck would they beat the dream team?

F/C 4 Gasol, Pau Lakers United States
2.5 G/F 5 Fernández, Rudy Trail Blazers United States
1.0 PG 6 Rubio, Ricky Joventut Badalona* Spain
1.5 G 7 Navarro, Juan Carlos FC Barcelona* Spain
1.0 PG 8 Calderón, José Raptors Canada
4.5 F/C 9 Reyes, Felipe Real Madrid* Spain
3.0 SF 10 Jiménez, Carlos (C) CB Málaga Spain
1.0 PG 11 López, Raúl Real Madrid* Spain
2.0 SG 12 Rodríguez, Berni CB Málaga Spain
5.0 C 13 Gasol, Marc Memphis Grizzlies United States
3.0 SF 14 Mumbrú, Álex Real Madrid* Spain
4.0 PF 15 Garbajosa, Jorge Khimki BC

Looks like they had only 3 motherfuckers from the NBA. So they struggled against this team, but they are way better than a team with Jordan and Magic on it. Come on dude...

11/22/2008 9:18:06 AM

fjjackso
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i agree with this thread... love kobe

but he is not on jordan's level...they are equal offensively and basketball IQ wise, but jordan wins on the defensive end.

11/22/2008 10:33:15 AM

skokiaan
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^^more than 3 of those are/were NBA

F/C 4 Gasol, Pau Lakers United States
2.5 G/F 5 Fernández, Rudy Trail Blazers United States
1.0 PG 8 Calderón, José Raptors Canada
5.0 C 13 Gasol, Marc Memphis Grizzlies United States
1.0 PG 11 López, Raúl Real Madrid* Spain
1.5 G 7 Navarro, Juan Carlos FC Barcelona* Spain

and the kid will be

1.0 PG 6 Rubio, Ricky Joventut Badalona* Spain

11/22/2008 12:00:22 PM

montclair
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I've just to say that Magic has no chance of guarding any of the point gaurds on the redeem team. none. He was a below average defender in his prime. in 92, no chance.

Nostalgia keeps vonjordan from seeing that the dream team would lose

Guys, Lebron is now better than Kobe. Kobe is a slightly better defender, a better 3 pt shooter and has a sexier game while the numbers prove that Lebron's game is more effective. his defense has picked up. Not to mention, he's done some winning with a pretty bad team in the past. Lebron is a better rebounder, passer and finisher. Though one could easily make he argument for Kobe as the better player I think this just makes it clear that he isn't the "best ever"

11/22/2008 3:22:08 PM

vonjordan3
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you guys are fucking morons, a team full of spanish people where "some" might have or might not have been in the NBA vs. THE ALL_STARS OF THE NBA. I am done arguing with shit, it is pretty much the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

[Edited on November 23, 2008 at 10:38 AM. Reason : .]

11/23/2008 10:38:04 AM

simonn
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have you totally forgotten what team usa had done before the 2008 games? having a team full of nba players is not an automatic win.

11/23/2008 10:56:28 AM

vonjordan3
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Guess you didnt read WTF I said On why the dream team would beat the redeeem team. Jesus, that was a significant point on why the players now would not beat the 90s guys

11/23/2008 11:08:10 AM

ItsNme
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Back to the topic at hand,

Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant, not the next jordan

Kobe Bryant is as good a basketball player as you will ever see and if you haters are not watching this Los Angeles Laker team this year closely, then you are missing out on what will be one of the best teams in NBA history

11/24/2008 9:19:20 AM

packboozie
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Quote :
"I love how many " Everything is better now in sports than before" guys we have on this site."


So you are one of those who think Jack Nicklaus in his heyday was better than Tiger?

Or even better you think Richard Petty was better than Earnhardt, or Gordon, or Johnson?

11/24/2008 6:29:14 PM

vonjordan3
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I do not know enough about golf to make a choice. i know on the video game tiger is harder to beat

Nascar I do know, when petty raced it was all about the engines and who had the money. It was not uncommon for the winner to when by whole laps ( I think the record is like 13). I would say JJ gordon and earnhardt have that on the competition being closer today. I would pick earnhardt because he won a lot of races off of piece of shit cars, while gordon and JJ usually win big time when they do because of the car (and their ability). My problem though is in general only minor differences have occurred for the rules in basketball in the last 20 years. Nascar has a complete different way of awarding the champion with the new system ( which seems to change yearly now). Imagine comparing basketball if next year they added a 4-point line, that is about what nascar has done.

11/25/2008 12:56:40 PM

ItsNme
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Imagine the NBA having more than 5 people taller than 6'6"

Russell and Wilt did not play against the kind of competition there is now.

As years go by the competition will always get stronger in every sport that is why todays NBA is so much more competitive than the 90s

11/25/2008 1:53:11 PM

vonjordan3
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^^spell correction, "to when= win" lol
^ my arguement wasn't about those guys, I agree with there being a difference from the 60's and now, but i think the 90s was better than the 00's, sorry.



[Edited on November 25, 2008 at 1:58 PM. Reason : .]

11/25/2008 1:56:08 PM

ItsNme
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get your head out of your ass and watch some basketball.

Jordan has retired, get over it already and accept that basketball can still go on and basketball can get better.

Kobe, Lebron, Amare, CP3, Dwade, Dhoward, Shaq, Tim Duncan, KG, Tmac, Iverson,

are top to bottom better than any 11 guys the 90s could put on the floor.

Basketball has more talent than it did in the 90s.

Basketball has more parity than it did in the 90s. (you had 2 teams win 8 titles)

11/25/2008 2:37:24 PM

vonjordan3
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i already stated my reason man, i simply do not agree. And sure as hell doubt any team from the 00's could take down the bulls from 1995-1997. Bottom line, the players on the dream team would beat the redeeam team.

And goes to say, why did we lose so much to other countries before this year? ya they are WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY fucking better. I already said my reasons and you make me repeat myself over and over.

[Edited on November 25, 2008 at 2:47 PM. Reason : .]

11/25/2008 2:45:49 PM

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