because i just got my bill for this past month's service and it's a whopping $160

the month before, it was $65 and the month before that it was $54

the highest mine has EVER been was the middle of summer, with the house set on 78°F and mid-90's every week...the total was $124

considering this past month the temp's been set on 65°F almost exclusively, and i haven't been using appliances anymore than necessary, something seems wrong

12/4/2008 7:59:16 PM

It happens. They also could have read the wrong meter. Call the power co and have them come out and check it or reread it.

[Edited on December 4, 2008 at 8:01 PM. Reason : .]

12/4/2008 8:00:50 PM

^ thanks...i didn't know if stuff like this ever really happened (i've heard of the water meters going bad or leaking, though)

i'll call them tomorrow

12/4/2008 8:01:55 PM

u should be able to go out there and read your meter and see if it matches up with what they read. Their reading is printed on the bill.

[Edited on December 4, 2008 at 8:27 PM. Reason : k]

12/4/2008 8:26:47 PM

It would be a rare malfunction that would cause the meter to run faster.

12/4/2008 8:40:21 PM

^I'm sure it's a malfunction that the company doesn't mind

12/4/2008 8:41:59 PM

Quote :

"It would be a rare malfunction that would cause the meter to run faster."

be that as it may...this seems abnormally high

12/4/2008 8:49:39 PM

usually the analog ones run slow

the digital ones are very accurate

someone probably just screwed up the reading

12/4/2008 8:50:50 PM

here's hoping...i'll check it when i let the dog out for the last time before bed

12/4/2008 8:52:21 PM

Heat pump a lot less efficient than the AC?

12/4/2008 8:52:58 PM

heat pump is the a/c and the heat, reversing valve

in fact, when on heat mode without aux. heat, you get a bit more out for each unit of energy in

[Edited on December 4, 2008 at 8:54 PM. Reason : 

12/4/2008 8:54:20 PM

^^ i wouldn't think so...my understanding was that the A/C is the worst of the two

even then, the majority of november (which this bill was for) was not that cold...certainly not the cold-weather equivalent of middle summer

[Edited on December 4, 2008 at 8:56 PM. Reason : ^ oh]

12/4/2008 8:55:32 PM

i thought maybe your power meter did a bunch of drugs and went on a rampage





possibly in apex

12/4/2008 8:56:27 PM

its very rare that an analog power meter goes bad. and like ^someone said above, they typically slow down.

12/4/2008 8:57:06 PM

^^ ISWYDT

[Edited on December 4, 2008 at 8:57 PM. Reason : .]

12/4/2008 8:57:19 PM

just going off what i saw on the meter's myspace page

12/4/2008 8:58:03 PM

lawl

12/4/2008 8:58:36 PM

they read the meter yesterday at 37047

now it's at 37151

so in one day, i've used 104 kWh? the stat's been set on 63°F for most of the day, and it was nearly 60 today...something's not right

12/4/2008 9:40:06 PM

Two things to check. 1) There are different rates for winter and summer. Check your bill. 2) We had a capacitor go bad in ours and shot the bill up a similar amount. Landlord had it fixed the next day.

12/4/2008 9:40:09 PM

Quote :

"so in one day, i've used 104 kWh? "

are you growing weed?

12/4/2008 9:41:08 PM

yeah thats a huge increase for one day, I would get it checked out.

12/4/2008 9:44:12 PM

Quote :

"are you growing weed?"

no...if i were, i'd have less of a cause to complain about the high rates

12/4/2008 9:46:16 PM

have you been using a space heater?

12/4/2008 9:50:32 PM

nope, just regular central heat with the vents closed in the rooms i don't use

12/4/2008 10:03:14 PM

[Edited on December 4, 2008 at 10:10 PM. Reason : .]

12/4/2008 10:09:37 PM

so i sent them an email last night with those numbers, and then called them this morning to discuss it

the guy was nice, but what it boiled down to was him saying that it probably isn't anything on their end, that since i haven't lived in the house for a winter, yet, that this is probably just the average...that, of course, is retarded...i refuse to believe that 104 kWh in 24 hours, on a day when the high was 60°F and my house was set to 63-65°F is "average"

he did say that most of the time, these are problems on the customer's end (which makes sense)...maybe my water heater or heat pump is going bad? how could i even tell? i have no problem with quick, hot water for showers or at the sink (i only use cold for washing clothes), and i only heard the heat cut on twice in the 5 hours i was at home and awake last night (and then, it was only on for 3-4 minutes at a time)

any suggestions? they're going to send me this form i have to fill out for them to come test the meter...in the meantime, i'm willing to admit that it could be something busted on my end...so how/what do i go about checking?

[Edited on December 5, 2008 at 9:50 AM. Reason : grammar]

12/5/2008 9:50:02 AM

well you could start flipping breakers off and seeing how the meter responds

id start with the water heater, check how quickly the meter is running, go to the panel, flip it off, and check the meter again, repeat ad nauseam

12/5/2008 9:53:26 AM

Anything can go bad, but I'd bank on human error first.

12/5/2008 9:56:17 AM

^^ it's a digital meter...i assume, then, that the test would need to be a time-intensive one, to gauge the change? but then, wouldn't it really just jump back up once i turn it on due to the fact that it would need to heat the water back up to temp?

^ me, too...the water heater, electrical, heat pump, etc. are all 8 years old (the house was moved and rewired in 2000)...which, i admit, is getting up there, but i would assume most of these units would last 12-15 years, not 8...but, since it's a digital meter, i don't know how much human error can be involved

[Edited on December 5, 2008 at 9:58 AM. Reason : .]

12/5/2008 9:57:01 AM

mine is between 200-280 usually.

12/5/2008 9:57:38 AM

Quote :

"mine is between 200-280 usually."

12/5/2008 10:00:07 AM

Turn off all your circuit breakers -- everything. Go spend the next 24 hours at a friend's place. Come back, see how much the meter changed.

[Edited on December 5, 2008 at 10:05 AM. Reason : ]

12/5/2008 10:04:03 AM

^ what would that accomplish? determine whether or not the meter's running even when there's virtually no power being used?

Quote :

"mine is between 200-280 usually."

my parents' is like that, but they also have 800sqft more than me, and 2 crappy units, one of which has a small leak

my total living space that i actively heat/cool is probably no more than 1000sqft...probably more like 8-900 (the other 7-800 is closed off pretty well)

[Edited on December 5, 2008 at 10:07 AM. Reason : .]

12/5/2008 10:05:46 AM

Bingo. Now, I'm not an electrical engineer (might be better to get joe#'s to weigh in on this ) but I'm under the assumption that if you have your entire apartment totally turned off at the circuit breaker rather than things turned "off" (many devices leech electricity while they're "off") it could tell you that something is possibly wrong with the meter.


For reference, this was my power bill for last month:

Quote :

"Service From: OCT 28 to NOV 25 (28 Days) Electricity Usage This Month Total KWH: 375 Days: 28 AVG KWH per Day: 13 AVG Cost per Day: $1.32"

Not sure how that compares to everyone else's, but I'm happy with it at the moment, and trying to get it lower still. I believe we have only turned the heat on once or twice so far this winter. My apartment is 1080sq. ft.

[Edited on December 5, 2008 at 10:10 AM. Reason : ]

12/5/2008 10:09:37 AM

^ it's worth it to get them fixed or replaced....

12/5/2008 10:10:10 AM

Quote :

"in fact, when on heat mode without aux. heat, you get a bit more out for each unit of energy in"

This is because you are taking advantage of some of the heat generated during the compression of the gas. Once it reaches 30-45 deg. F outside (depending on the system) you hit the "balance point" in which the auxiliary heat kicks in. This runs current through an element and turns your central heat into a large space heater, probably eating through the power.

[Edited on December 5, 2008 at 10:14 AM. Reason : ]

Oh yeah, depending on your house (age, construction, etc) you could have insulation issues.

[Edited on December 5, 2008 at 10:14 AM. Reason : ]

12/5/2008 10:11:40 AM

Jesus, i use on average 2500 KWH a month. Im envious of your 375.

12/5/2008 10:13:10 AM

^ What the heck do you do to have it so high?

I was bitching last month when we used 511, and about had a stroke when we used 853 the month before that. We moved in in late August (although in fairness, that 853 value was for more than our first month in the apartment). We also had a bunch of people over helping us move in, watching TV, taking showers, staying with us for a few days, etc.


--My fiancee and I don't watch much TV -- she watches some occasionally; 99.999% of the time I don't watch any. I do spend a lot of time on my computer, however.
--We don't usually play lots of music.
--90% of the lights in our apartment use compact-fluorescent light bulbs. 13w-15w instead of 60w, for the same amount of light? Yes please. I have (3) 13w lights in my office putting out as much light at (3) 60w bulbs, but consuming 39w of power rather than 180w. Heck, I even replaced the normal bulb above our stove with a CFL.
--If you live with your SO, shower together. (1) 20-minute shower is shorter than (2) 15-minute showers.
--If you need light during the day, open the blinds or move somewhere for natural sunlight. If you absolutely have to use a light, use it.
--If you need to use a light, only use it when you're in the room. When you leave, turn it off.
--When you're away from your computer, put it to sleep or turn it off. If you're going to be gone for an extended period of time, unplug it or turn off the power strip.
--Speaking of power strips/surge protectors, use them as much as possible. For example: Have your TV/stereo/gaming system all plugged into the same power strip. When you're done for the night, flip the switch so they don't leech electricity while you're sleeping.
--Only use the AC/heat if you absolutely have to. If you're hot, use an overhead fan or a room fan, and wear lighter clothes. If you're freezing, put on heavier clothes. Buy an electric blanket for your bed, and turn the heat off at night -- very comfortable, probably saves power (can't swear to it though). If you can't afford an electric blanket, just buy several normal blankets.


Most of this stuff is common sense.



My apartment is 2 people and 3 cats.

[Edited on December 5, 2008 at 10:34 AM. Reason : ]

12/5/2008 10:17:50 AM

my house was built in 1962 and moved in 2000...when it was moved, the appliances, electrical, water heater, and heat pump were all replaced and a second master bedroom was added...it is now 1620 square feet, with three of the four bedrooms being closed off (vents and doors closed all the time)

the insulation in the ceiling and floor are NOT correct...the people who lived there before me installed wall insulation, not floor/ceiling, so it's about half the thickness it should be...i didn't sweat it too much, because once i got my temperature under control (78-80°F in the summer), my bill was around $90 at worst...i was willing to pay that

i realize that the insulation issue can be problematic, and that just because i close off the rooms, it doesn't mean that they're not being heated/cooled (at least some)...but considering that it's harder (more expensive) to cool a house than to heat it, i figured that my electric bill in the winter shouldn't be too much more, at the worst

i do cook/bake on a pretty regular basis, but i have two ovens - one is the POS hotpoint that was installed at the move and which i have never used, and the other is a smaller, 1962 original frigidaire ("a product of general motors company"!) that i use exclusively...i did just pick up a new HE front-loading washer/dryer set, but i've only used it for four loads since i got it a few weeks ago (i wash on cold, never hot/warm, and i use the low/no heat dry)

i shower every other day and my showers last no more than 6-7 minutes...all of my windows/doors were replaced last year with those champion HE 3-pane (or whatever, i didn't put them in myself) units

i do have an HTPC and plasma television (both of which generate some heat, but it's not unbearable, ESPECIALLY in the winter when the pump doesn't have to combat the heat with cool air)...i don't watch/use them for more than 1-2 hours every day, in the evenings when i'm working on schoolwork or something...they are turned off at night

ALL of the lights are CFL and i use no space heaters

that's about all i can think of for my profile...the ONLY way my bill could be this high is if something's busted

12/5/2008 10:43:44 AM

sure

12/5/2008 11:07:41 AM

sure

12/5/2008 11:07:41 AM

It's almost certainly your water heater or your heat pump. Nothing else in your house draws as much power on a regular basis. If you have a multi-meter you can troubleshoot this yourself. You just have to verify that the water heater's elements are working and you have to determine whether or not your heat pump is running in emergency heat mode (where it uses it's electric heating elements).

12/5/2008 11:23:46 AM

Quote :

"the insulation in the ceiling and floor are NOT correct...the people who lived there before me installed wall insulation, not floor/ceiling, so it's about half the thickness it should be..."

That would be 1 issue that would cause it to be more expensive to heat than to cool, as heat has a tendency to rise and leak out of attics. Also closing off rooms are probably not going to save any energy and may be costing you extra to do so. When the heat pump was installed there were load calculations run in order to pick the right heat pump, by closing off 2 or 3 vents/rooms you are essentially screwing with those numbers and could be forcing the pump to work harder. Finally keeping your house 80 when its 90 outside during the day (running all day) and 70s at night (not running at night) won't use nearly as much energy as keeping it at 65 when its 55 outside and 30 at night, running day and night.

Heat is slightly more efficient than a/c in general, given a same temperature difference.

[Edited on December 5, 2008 at 11:38 AM. Reason : ]

12/5/2008 11:36:56 AM

we're constantly using around 1100 kWh a month with heat on 69 and 3 people living in a 1200 sqft duplex. One of them is rarely ever around though.

12/5/2008 11:54:52 AM

Quote :

"It's almost certainly your water heater or your heat pump. Nothing else in your house draws as much power on a regular basis. If you have a multi-meter you can troubleshoot this yourself. You just have to verify that the water heater's elements are working and you have to determine whether or not your heat pump is running in emergency heat mode (where it uses it's electric heating elements)."

hopefully, then, if it must be one of those two, i'm hoping it's the water heater...$300 is better than whatever heat pumps cost these days

Quote :

"That would be 1 issue that would cause it to be more expensive to heat than to cool, as heat has a tendency to rise and leak out of attics. Also closing off rooms are probably not going to save any energy and may be costing you extra to do so. When the heat pump was installed there were load calculations run in order to pick the right heat pump, by closing off 2 or 3 vents/rooms you are essentially screwing with those numbers and could be forcing the pump to work harder. Finally keeping your house 80 when its 90 outside during the day (running all day) and 70s at night (not running at night) won't use nearly as much energy as keeping it at 65 when its 55 outside and 30 at night, running day and night. Heat is slightly more efficient than a/c in general, given a same temperature difference."

well, i definitely realized from the beginning that the thin insulation would be problematic, though i thought it would be no more so problematic in the winter than in the summer, since building materials tend to hold heat...it's on my to-do list, but i've never gotten around to adding more

i don't think i quite understand why closing off rooms would matter, as long as the intake and temperature sensor were in an area that wasn't closed off...if the pull and thermometer are in the area being heated, wouldn't it cut off once the correct temperature were reached, regardless of how many vents there are? the way i see it is that if the vents are closed, there is less heated air escaping into areas where i don't want/need it...shouldn't it just make its rounds, escape through the open vents, and then shut off when the sensor says it's the right temperature?

i suppose that makes sense on the temperature difference thing...i just figured that since heat is more efficient, it would (roughly) make up for the temperature gaps

thanks for all of the advice and suggestions thus far...i really appreciate it!

12/5/2008 12:02:26 PM

Quote :

"^ What the heck do you do to have it so high? "

Im sure its a bunch of our little stuff that adds up.

We do keep the house "comfortable", which usually means 72 in the summer, and 70 in the winter. I do have a programmable thermostat that adjusts the temperature based on the time of the day, so i either dont fight the sun in the summer so much (it lets it go up to 78) and I dont fight the cold so much at night during the winter (lets it go down to 67).

That has helped tremendously.

The house is 2500 sq. ft. with 4br. Our washer/dryer is older than moses (soon to be replaced) so I am sure they take a bunch of power (we do a bunch of loads due to thier small size).

All lights are already CFL, and alot of the house is automatic (timers, X10, etc..).

We do have a pool, and that thing sucks electricity when the pump is running.

Aside from that, I really cant think of anything that really kills us power wise.

I suspect my hot water heater sucks, so I am thinking about putting in a gas on-demand one. One of my neighbors recently did it, and they love it. Their bathrooms and stuff even have remote controls that let them adjust the temperature of the hot water to make showers/baths more comfortable. Thier power bill dropped dramatically.

My wife cooks every day, so maybe the oven and other appliances kill us too, not too sure.

I like the idea of having all of the "power leeches" on power strips, but that seems like a huge inconvenience when we use everything so often.

I dont mean to de-rail the thread (maybe I should start another), but does anyone else have any power saving tips that saved them real money?

12/5/2008 12:49:57 PM

Quote :

"i don't think i quite understand why closing off rooms would matter, as long as the intake and temperature sensor were in an area that wasn't closed off...if the pull and thermometer are in the area being heated, wouldn't it cut off once the correct temperature were reached, regardless of how many vents there are? the way i see it is that if the vents are closed, there is less heated air escaping into areas where i don't want/need it...shouldn't it just make its rounds, escape through the open vents, and then shut off when the sensor says it's the right temperature?"

The efficiency of the system is based on a certain amount of airflow across the heat exchange coils. By closing off vents you can alter the airflow (and thus the heat flux) across the heat exchange coils reducing the system efficiency. Taken to an extreme, there is the potential to damage your system. If there isn't enough heat flux across the coils you can cause liquid refrigerant to build on in the system and eventually blow that valves out of the compressor. This is rare, but I have seen it happen. Dirty air filters can have a similar effect.

[Edited on December 5, 2008 at 1:12 PM. Reason : typing FTL]

12/5/2008 1:05:04 PM

Quote :

"Durty air filters"

durrrty

12/5/2008 1:06:26 PM

^^ okay, i can (sort of) understand that...but what are the odds? i've got 4 vents (one for each bedroom plus one in the master bathroom) out of 11 total closed...also, the intake isn't in a room that's closed off, it's in a central location...my thermostat has a filter check on it, though i'm not sure if it actually does anything or just counts down a number of days before you're supposed to replace it

i'm not really trying to argue...i'm just trying to gauge how much of a reality this is

also, i DO have a multimeter...how would i use it to test 1.) the water heater, and/or 2.) the heat pump?

12/5/2008 1:16:37 PM

^ Start with the water heater. http://www.chilipepperapp.com/troublee.htm

A good way to check the elements is just to test the resistance.

Quote :

"my thermostat has a filter check on it, though i'm not sure if it actually does anything or just counts down a number of days before you're supposed to replace it"

You're correct. It's just counting off a set number of days. You should always visually inspect your filters no less often that once a month. Keeping your filters clean can save you a lot of money.

[Edited on December 5, 2008 at 1:24 PM. Reason : filter info]

12/5/2008 1:22:30 PM