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ambrosia1231
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My grandfather wrote on my birthday card 'Here's to a miracle in 2009'

What I meant to say was 'did you have anything in particular in mind?', but what came out was 'what's a miracle?' (not in the 'what's the definition?', but the 'what, exactly, are you talking about?' sense.)

And now he's sent me an email I can't ignore. Where diplomacy isn't really possible, and I don't feel like lying. Well, I'm sure there's diplomacy to be had. I just haven't figured out how to phrase it yet

He's a preacher, and has all but said 'So, are you a Christian?'

/blog

[Edited on December 15, 2008 at 11:46 PM. Reason : fldgj]

12/15/2008 11:45:50 PM

Big Business
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miracles aint real. sometimes unbelievably good shit happens sometimes unbelievably bad shit happens.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

12/15/2008 11:46:39 PM

hershculez
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Why can't that unbelievable good shit have a name attached to it?

12/15/2008 11:47:27 PM

Big Business
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go away troll.

we were talking about christianity and divine intervention

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12/15/2008 11:48:16 PM

hershculez
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no you weren't, you were being a dick.

[Edited on December 15, 2008 at 11:49 PM. Reason : ,]

12/15/2008 11:48:56 PM

ambrosia1231
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the word is the same, good or bad: luck.


Or life

Quote :
"we were talking about christianity and divine intervention"

We were?

[Edited on December 15, 2008 at 11:49 PM. Reason : ldfjg]

12/15/2008 11:49:10 PM

hershculez
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So it was luck when my 4 year old brother drowned, was not breathing when he was brought up, and then revived through CPR by an individual at the pool? You can call it luck. I call my brother being alive today a miracle.

True story.

[Edited on December 15, 2008 at 11:51 PM. Reason : an not and]

12/15/2008 11:50:49 PM

Big Business
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I wasn't being a dick (intentionally ), i kind of assumed from this:
Quote :
"He's a preacher, and has all but said 'So, are you a Christian?'"

Yeah I don't believe in miracles because the term doesn't really have an opposing counterpart.


eh, So if i'm an EMT and utilize my physiological knowledge on a daily basis i'm constantly preforming miracles?


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12/15/2008 11:52:00 PM

hershculez
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Ok now I'm trolling. We can stick with Christianity and words within your post to poke a hole in your theory. What is the opposing counterpart to the term preacher? Does that mean they don't exist?

12/15/2008 11:54:01 PM

khcadwal
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i don't even think it even always luck. unless luck has some statistical element to it. i mean if you are at a pool odds are someone around knows CPR.

i guess it was lucky that the CPR worked. but i'm sure if we broke the incident down into how many minutes he was under, what shape his heart was in, etc etc we'd find some sort of statistic to attribute it to.

but yea calling it a miracle is easier.

i like "life"

i mean i do think things like family and friend support in hard times can make a situation better. i mean i don't think it can make it worse. but is that what REALLY makes a person live or die? i don't necessarily think so.

[Edited on December 15, 2008 at 11:56 PM. Reason : .]

12/15/2008 11:54:47 PM

pilgrimshoes
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you seem to be constantl digging yourself these holes

i wonder why that is

12/15/2008 11:55:43 PM

Shadowrunner
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Quote :
"So it was luck when my 4 year old brother drowned, was not breathing when he was brought up, and then revived through CPR by an individual at the pool? You can call it luck. I call my brother being alive today a miracle."


I would, in fact, call it that. He's lucky the individual was able to apply CPR effectively as soon as he did; a few seconds or minutes later and he might have died. But among all the kids who drown in pools, there's a lot for whom help arrives far too late. For some, they get rescued before they even fully suffocate. There's a whole spectrum, and for every kid who is saved at the last minute by CPR, there's another whom CPR fails to revive... those are the unlucky ones. Your brother is one of the lucky ones.

12/15/2008 11:57:14 PM

Big Business
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well, Preacher is a noun describing a verb, that doesn't really have an opposite.

If i have a bad liver, i'm on the last days of my death bed and i'm matched up with a liver then its just a factor of when i was put on the list and when one came available. Even if luck existed it would have nothing to do with it.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

12/15/2008 11:57:48 PM

parsonsb
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people can miraculously have a turn for the worse too

you just don't hear about that cause people like to call it unexpectedly

12/15/2008 11:59:26 PM

hershculez
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Yes, he is lucky. I will continue to be optimistic throughout my life and refer to the event as a miracle. This is a thread in which someone's point of view will not be changed. I'll leave this thread to those of you who do not believe in miracles to condemn the idea. Where is Frosh when I need him.

12/16/2008 12:00:19 AM

ReceiveDeath
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enemies to be made ITT

12/16/2008 12:00:44 AM

Big Business
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yeah... people over glamorize positive memories and their importance because they are significant to them.

its not a miracle that the CPR person got there on time. They rushed because they knew it was urgent. If it was an ambulance, cars got out of the way, they knew all the procedures and didn't fuck around wasting time.

^^I like internet arguments because i don't really feel the need to change your opinion. Its more just about applying what you believe to other people's scenarioz / beliefs

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

12/16/2008 12:00:52 AM

Str8Foolish
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I dislike when the term "miracle" is applied to some good event (especially when a EMT saves somebody) because it implies God doesn't give a fuck or doesn't deem a person worthy of being saved when said person dies

[Edited on December 16, 2008 at 12:05 AM. Reason : .]

12/16/2008 12:05:09 AM

Shadowrunner
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I wasn't condemning miracles or disparaging your views. You can happily continue being optimistic and calling it a miracle, that's fine. You just said, "So it was luck...? You can call it luck", so I was confirming that yes, I call it luck.

You don't really need Frosh for this, because I doubt he would come rushing to anyone's defense here.

12/16/2008 12:09:55 AM

khcadwal
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^^yea but when someone dies you rationalize it out ("rationalize")

"God wanted him up there with Him" etc etc.

^ so does that mean luck and a miracle aren't the same, then? i'm confused. i thought they were the same. i guess a miracle does imply divine intervention or something?

so confusing.

[Edited on December 16, 2008 at 12:11 AM. Reason : .]

12/16/2008 12:09:59 AM

Shadowrunner
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No, it just means we're all allowed to have our own beliefs and interpret most events in the way that squares with our own personal philosophies of life. I don't think they're the same, but maybe he does. To be mathematical about it, maybe miracles are a subset of luck, the long tail of luck.

[Edited on December 16, 2008 at 12:13 AM. Reason : out != our]

12/16/2008 12:13:28 AM

Big Business
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Quote :
"an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause."


I guess when i see Miracle, i think something that's physically/logically impossible.


I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

12/16/2008 12:14:19 AM

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