Here's the deal, looking for a new car in the next 3-4 months.

2009 WRX, hands down the performance winner here, $26,000 new with options I want, higher consumer rating

2007 A4 Quattro, 2.0T, slower, heavier, but nicer interiors, larger, $24,000 with low miles, options, higher editorial rating.

I used the Edmunds total cost to own.
Over 5 years, they are nearly identical, both fall within $600 of each other.

Which one?

1/21/2009 9:06:29 PM

get what you want?

1/21/2009 9:15:21 PM

i like both, though i'll admit i'm leaning towards the WRX and wife is leaning towards A4, go fig.

i'm looking for people who can testify on reliability, performance, etc. of these cars that may sway my opinion

[Edited on January 21, 2009 at 9:17 PM. Reason : .]

1/21/2009 9:16:30 PM

There's always the Saabaru

1/21/2009 9:24:13 PM

imo, the wrx wins this by miles. the only thing you might miss is the slightly cushier interior of the audi, but the other tradoffs comparing the two aren't nearly worth it.

1/21/2009 9:27:22 PM

The 09 WRX. It's far better than any previous WRX with its 265 HP, better suspension, etc. I'd gladly take it over the A4.

But I bet you could find an 08 STi for $27k right now. I was looking around last week and there were quite a few within 250 miles; all practically brand new.

[Edited on January 21, 2009 at 10:00 PM. Reason : l]

1/21/2009 9:57:36 PM

^except the WRX is the same as the 08 STi pretty much

1/21/2009 10:01:15 PM

Minus 40 HP, minus 45 lb ft of torque, and probably a lot more. They're not the same.

1/21/2009 10:15:10 PM

im no car guy, but i'm sure there are a ton of differences, including the suspension.

do the 09 wrxs really have 265 hp? whats the epa mpg?

1/21/2009 10:31:56 PM

^ Yep. They're a huge leap above the 08 WRXs.

1/21/2009 11:38:07 PM

The transmission and suspension is totally different.

As far as WRX vs A4 I think the WRX is ugly as sin and the A4 is one slick automobile. Depends if you want more luxury or sport really.

1/22/2009 12:10:49 AM

Subie WRX purely for performance. Audi A4 for design & quality. All depends on your priorities.

Been following the reviews for 09 WRX (looking to trade in my 04), but still lacking in the quality that I'm looking for after hanging around the subie forums. Piss poor paint job, lack luster tranny/clutch, boring design (exterior/interior) will be just some of the quirks you will find with the Subies. Just not refined.

Personally, I think I'm done with the "fast daily driver" scene and my next car will be something like the Audi.

[Edited on January 22, 2009 at 12:20 AM. Reason : details]

1/22/2009 12:15:32 AM

http://www.edmunds.com/subaru/impreza/2009/testdrive.html

Quote :

"Thanks to a raid on the parts bin of the higher-performance WRX STI, the WRX sedan is much improved for 2009. Wider and stickier tires, a revised suspension that pilfered components from the STI, along with beefed-up spring rates and stabilizer bars help the 2009 Subaru WRX correct last year's mushy and uninspiring handling. The engine also enjoys an upgrade that includes a larger, STI-based turbocharger, wider-diameter exhaust and less restrictive catalytic converter. These updates contribute to a welcome 18 percent gain in horsepower with a more usable power band."

1/22/2009 12:15:43 AM

the a4s are nice.. more power can be had relatively easily with a chip and a few other things (hit me up if you want more info)

the 2.0t is a decent engine, but they did have some problems early on. they may have taken care of it by '07 MY but i'm not sure. camshaft/fuel pump lifter was the big (expensive) one.

more info on that:
camshaft/fuel pump lifter (w/ pics): http://forums.ncdubs.org/showthread.php?t=8392
crankcase breather: http://forums.ncdubs.org/showthread.php?t=10742

fwiw, the guy that posted both of those threads is a vw tech in charlotte

[Edited on January 22, 2009 at 9:24 AM. Reason : ..]

1/22/2009 9:22:55 AM

I'd go with the WRX. I don't trust Audi as far as reliability goes.

1/22/2009 9:35:54 AM

^

1/22/2009 10:31:12 AM

i'm actually leaning towards the A4 now, with a chip these cars can hit 0-60 in sub-6, while it's not as fast as the WRX, it's a lot nicer design/quality and the chip is only $600

1/22/2009 4:30:58 PM

if you are comparing new, Audi without a doubt, but used half-warrantied Audi vs new rex is easy choice=WRX.

1/22/2009 4:41:00 PM

get the Audi if you like the image, otherwise don't bother. It will be more expensive to maintain and perform worse (in all categories). yeah you could chip it but you can also chip WRX's (Cobb Accessport).

[Edited on January 22, 2009 at 6:39 PM. Reason : might be a little while before new WRX stuff comes out]

1/22/2009 6:39:26 PM

Quote :

"2007 A4 Quattro, 2.0T"

This is the exact car i have with the S-line package (18" wheels, sports suspension, and some trim shit) and a 6-spd tranny. I love my car although i think the city gas mileage figure is a little unrealistic unless you are driving like a granny.

I looked at something like a WRX or civic SI originally but i decided i wanted something that portrayed more of a young professional image rather than a high school fast and the furious one. While the WRX blows it apart on performance the the turbo 2.0 A4 is def no turtle and handles very well for a 3500lb car.

Overall i like the subtle premium feel of the interior without going overboard like many of the japanesse entry luxes that contain a bunch of gizmos appealing to the middle age soccer mom segment of the population. The warranty, quality, and service level of Audi surely beats what is offered by Mitsubishi. Right now if anything happens to my car i can have it shipped back to Raleigh for free and they'll pay for my rental.

1/23/2009 4:16:51 PM

you bought a car based on perceived image by others more then your own opinion?

1/23/2009 6:09:50 PM

I have a 2004 WRX still. It's at around 66,000, still no problems and no engine work done. Can't say anything about the Audi; never driven one, never owned one. I'm sure it's a lot smoother of a ride and like someone said, the interior is probably hands down nicer/better. I'd go with the WRX on reliability, like was said.

And yeah, they upped the horsepower on the 09 WRX because the Mazda Speed 3 pushed the rivalry I'd assume...It was getting better reviews all around over the 08 WRX.

1/23/2009 6:19:48 PM

According to Top Gear, cock's no longer drive BMW's...they all bought Audi's.

1/23/2009 6:24:26 PM

If it's between these two cars, the Audi wins in every real category. It's a hands down better car for everyday life than the Subaru is.

1/24/2009 9:55:41 PM

That means the Subaru's performance is unreal (relative to Audi's)

1/25/2009 5:53:08 AM

G35/G37 sedan sport

1/25/2009 6:21:23 PM

the wrx will be more mechanically sound... but will develop interior rattles that you would never find in the audi (i think. Out of a sample set of 3 subies and 6 audis 2 subies have interior rattles and the audis have none.)

1/26/2009 3:05:37 PM

My 02 wrx wagon with 205k miles had two interior rattles. One was from the corner of the dash by the a pillar -fixed with a piece of folded paper, the other from the tailgate, fixed by adjusting the stops.

Rattles drive me nuts, big reason why I own newer cars though I suspect my definition of newer isn't the same as most on tww...

1/26/2009 3:30:19 PM

well my top priorities are performance, reliability, and comfort

performance - wrx
reliability - wrx (not to mention audi's are $texas to fix)
warranty - wrx
clearance (for the mountain roads) - wrx
everyday driver - a4
comfort - a4
design - a4

it's a toss-up, i may go with the A4 though since you can upgrade performance on it, but you can't take the performance out and put luxury in the wrx. i guess i'll just have to rent a jeep when i go hike 14'ers

[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 3:40 PM. Reason : .]

1/26/2009 3:38:57 PM

If you are getting an 07 Audi, the warranty and reliability are really tossups between these two cars. the 2.0T is pretty battle-hardened now, but so is the 2.5L on the WRX.

Clearance is also a complete wash, you can raise the ride height on the Audi if you really need it, and similarly lower is on the WRX if you need to.

The thing missing from your comparison is depreciation and resale. The Audi will win because of the model year difference and the brand desirability.

1/26/2009 4:25:38 PM

Quote :

"reliability - wrx (not to mention audi's are $texas to fix) warranty - wrx "

Unfortunatly you are dead wrong in one of these categories and arguably in the second. From Subarus on website

Subaru

Quote :

"New Car Limited Warranty BASIC COVERAGE is 3 years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first. Subject to the exclusions listed in this warranty, it covers the entire car. "

Audi

Quote :

"4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first, new vehicle limited warranty"

Further when i bought mine i signed onto the Certified program that extends the Audi Care New Vehicle Plan to 65,000 miles (100,000 for defects and tranny) or an addition 2 years past the new car warranty.

Subaru

Quote :

"Rust Perforation Limited Warranty RUST PERFORATION COVERAGE for all models is 5 years "

Audi

Quote :

" The balance of the original 12-year Corrosion Perforation Limited Warranty, regardless of mileage³ "

As far as reliability goes, perhaps the new model is much better, according to Edmunds the WRX consistently scores between a 2 and a 3 out of 5 for the various reliability and quality ratings over the years
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2007/subaru/impreza/100796775/ratings_jdpower.html

On the other hand the Audi A4 ever since the 2005 redesign has seen scores from 3.0 even up to 4.5 in various quality areas. With two anamolies of 2 and 2.5 during the 2006 and 2007 model years for power train.

The WRX does have an advantage though of 60 month 5 year warranty for the drivetrain; this is negated though if you get an Audi through the certified program.

From my understanding though Audi has more electrical/control issues as far as reliability. Where as Subaru is more mechanical things like the rattles someone previously mentioned.

Quote :

"not to mention audi's are $texas to "

luckily i don't have to worry about this until 2013 or 100,000 miles most likely the former.

[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 4:48 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 4:51 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 4:51 PM. Reason : a]

1/26/2009 4:44:27 PM

this will be 6 pages soon

1/26/2009 5:38:24 PM

as far as the audi warranty is concerned, up til 2006 models also had free maintenance included in the 4 yr 50,0000 mi warranty.

though I guess that would be about over by now.

1/26/2009 9:05:35 PM

my 2007 has this.....

[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 9:09 PM. Reason : L]

1/26/2009 9:09:35 PM

Quote :

"As far as reliability goes, perhaps the new model is much better, according to Edmunds the WRX consistently scores between a 2 and a 3 out of 5 for the various reliability and quality ratings over the years http://www.edmunds.com/used/2007/subaru/impreza/100796775/ratings_jdpower.html On the other hand the Audi A4 ever since the 2005 redesign has seen scores from 3.0 even up to 4.5 in various quality areas. With two anamolies of 2 and 2.5 during the 2006 and 2007 model years for power train."

are you really trying to argue that a German car is more reliable than a Japanese car?

really? fuck your ratings, be real.

not to mention, for those out of warranty, there is this thing called parts cost. labor rates tend to be more expensive too.

1/26/2009 9:21:35 PM

Quote :

"are you really trying to argue that a German car is more reliable than a Japanese car?"

This is not fucking Honda or Toyota dumbass

Hell Nissan until a few years ago had quality issues nearly as bad as some of our Fix Or Repair Dailies

Quote :

"there is this thing called parts cost. labor rates tend to be more expensive to"

well if u can't afford the premium costs to fix an audi or bmw perhaps you should stick to a Mazda Protege'. Chances are most people buying these cars will have less issues footing the bill or are leasing in the first place.

When i return from teh gym i'll actually check the consumer reports ratings. If i'm wrong than foot in mouth otherwise perhaps you will need to start consulting other car publications instead of your Turbo- Jap Import magazine and Fast and the Furious for your car sources.

btw i'm only arguing for the A4 i have heard the A6 has had some reliability issues.

[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 9:34 PM. Reason : l]

1/26/2009 9:30:28 PM

Quote :

"This is not fucking Honda or Toyota dumbass"

dude, when it comes to reliability, Japanese engineering >> German engineering...i can't believe you're even trying to argue this.

Quote :

"well if u can't afford the premium costs to fix an audi or bmw perhaps you should stick to a Mazda Protege"

that statement is true. but it just confirms the fact that the average German car is much more expensive to maintain than the average Japanese car.

Quote :

"otherwise perhaps you will need to start consulting other car publications instead of your Turbo- Jap Import magazine and Fast and the Furious for your car sources."

I love the fact that you're stereotyping me based on my posts, but I own a Volkswagen so you fail miserably there.

1/26/2009 9:46:06 PM

Quote :

"dude, when it comes to reliability, Japanese engineering >> German engineering...i can't believe you're even trying to argue this."

No I am arguing it is debatable that Audi is more reliable than Subaru. Subaru is not all inclusive of Japanese engineers. I am not even trying to be biased by saying Audi even has outstanding reliability. From what i have heard Subaru is not on par though with other jap auto manufacturers.


[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 11:15 PM. Reason : l]

1/26/2009 11:07:36 PM

^^I don't think you can argue that the Japanese trump the Germans in engineering, specifically mechanical systems. One could argue the German's reputation has been tarnished and isn't as good as it was in the early to mid 90s, however their downfall in ratings has come mainly from electrical problems dealing with their "high-tech" gadgets, not engine/transmission.

1/27/2009 1:16:40 PM

Quote :

"however their downfall in ratings has come mainly from electrical problems dealing with their "high-tech" gadgets, not engine/transmission. "

Mr. Tke is correct. Mechanically germany has some of teh best engineers in the world; which not many people would deny. On the other hand Japan is renowned for their oustanding controls and electrical engineers as seen from all the crazy electronics that come out of Japan and their Mechanical Engineers are top tier to but not at the level of Germany typically.

Likewise most of the quality issues i have heard from german cars and Audi particular are related to electrical problems much of which have been pressed out in the last two generations of the A4 at least.

1/27/2009 2:03:47 PM

Quote :

"perhaps you will need to start consulting other car publications instead of your Turbo- Jap Import magazine and Fast and the Furious for your car sources."

says the guy quoting EDMUNDS as serious business... laff.

i think some of you also seem to be overlooking the fact that we're talking about a NEW wrx vs. a two m.y. old USED a4.

[Edited on January 27, 2009 at 3:03 PM. Reason : germany is good at creating technology, the japanese are good at copying and perfecting it]

1/27/2009 3:01:38 PM

Quote :

"but it just confirms the fact that the average German car is much more expensive to maintain than the average Japanese car."

there is a distinct difference between *maintain* and *repair*. i dont see maintenance costs being that much different between the two assuming there are no major repairs.

that said, whoever is knocking german reliability, i drove a beat up 1991 vw jetta with 160k miles on it for over a year then i got a 1998 a4 (notorious for sludge issues among other things) that i have been driving for over a year and a half and i have never been left stranded (ok, once when i reused an old hose after doing a timing belt and it started leaking). i ran into some things that needed to be fixed, a given for any car of this age. fwiw, i define "reliable" as "able to get me to work and back". as you can probaly imagine, i have had some electrical issues (driver side heated seat element is busted, cruise control switch needs a good cleaning) but mechanically both of those cars have not let me down. i did have to replace the turbo on the audi because the internal wastegate broke (another known problem for the early 1.8ts) but that didnt keep me from driving.

1/27/2009 3:05:05 PM

my wrx has been great

1/27/2009 3:25:37 PM

seems like it is pretty much going to be a wash.. just drive them both and pick the one that you enjoy driving more.

1/27/2009 5:14:18 PM

do you think German engineers are actually better? Or they appear that way because they get to produce a product that sells for significantly more which allows for more technology.

they tell me at work build a power supply for 1$. I know how and would love to make something that's small, feature packed, efficient, etc... but it isn't what is asked for. I do as I am told. I don't see how being an engineer for an automaker would be any different. It's a 4 stroke engine, it isn't rocket science. Hyundai could just as easily make a 100HP/L engine as Honda or BMW or Subraru or VW but it isnt their market share.

I would buy an audi if i wanted an audi. I dont think the cars going to break down and if it does I will fix it. Who cares? You will probably miss shift or runt he car out of oil and spin a bearing before something tragic happens. I will say I would go out of my way to avoid an automatic transmission .

1/27/2009 8:24:18 PM

Quinn, I totally see your point, and agree about the parameters given to the engineers. However I still don't think Hyundai could produce a 100+hp/liter engine "as easily as" BMW, Porsche or... yes Honda. No it's not rocket science per say, but it's actually not that far either.

If that were the case, I don't see why GM would use Lotus engineers for some suspension work, or Ford would use Cosworth engineers for engine design, or how Porsche could possibly make more money consulting other auto and motorcycle manufacturers than producing cars themselves... In short, there's a lot of specialization, and some manufacturers are geared (both in their employees and hard manufacturing resources) towards certain things.

1/27/2009 10:17:27 PM

^ agree

i think the main point of the "japan engineers vs german engineers" refers a lot more to the overall design/engineering philosophy

1/27/2009 11:58:17 PM

^^

Good points.

1/28/2009 8:31:50 AM

Might want to try looking at a MS3,

Really a fun car to drive, and pretty cheap for the power...

1/28/2009 4:41:19 PM

^^^^ On of the best posts ever in The Garage. It's not that "brand X" is inherently better than "brand Y", it's the results of how they all work together to connect their strengths and produce quality vehicles.

1/28/2009 5:56:51 PM