Quote :

"President Obama on Thursday will order the closure of so-called black sites, where CIA and European security services have interrogated terrorist suspects, under executive orders dismantling much of the Bush admistration's architecture for the war on terror, according to four individuals familiar with a draft executive order. Mr. Obama will shutter "all permanent detention facilities overseas," the draft said, according to the individuals who asked not to be named because the orders have not yet been signed. There are at least eight such prisons, according to published reports. The Bush administration never revealed the number or location of the facilities, although several were said to be in Eastern Europe. The individuals said there will be three executive orders. One will order the black sites closed and require all interrogations of detainees across the entire U.S. intelligence community to adhere to the U.S. Army Field Manual. The manual specifies a range of interrogation techniques that are not considered torture. "

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/22/obama-close-terrorist-black-sites/

Thank god. I mean, I'm a white American, my chances of being disappeared to some gulag in Poland is pretty slim, but the thought of that being a possibility for anybody, American or not, chills me to the bone. However, I'm sure 24 fans everywhere are screaming in terror.

1/22/2009 2:55:49 PM

Good.

1/22/2009 2:57:42 PM

This won't end well.

1/22/2009 5:46:11 PM

please elaborate, sir

1/22/2009 5:52:54 PM

he means the CIA's gonna get him

just like they got JFK

[Edited on January 22, 2009 at 6:17 PM. Reason : CONSPIRACY]

1/22/2009 6:11:41 PM

Well, so far he's done quite a bit in his first day and a half in office.

1/22/2009 6:19:59 PM

i posted this in the "empty vessel" thread, but i think it's more appropriate here.

the full text of today's executive orders:

Quote :

" Executive Order regarding Guantanamo Bay detainees Executive Order requires closure of the Guantanamo detention center no later than one year from the date of the Order. Closure of the facility is the ultimate goal but not the first step. The Order establishes a review process with the goal of disposing of the detainees before closing the facility. The Order sets up an immediate review to determine whether it is possible to transfer detainees to third countries, consistent with national security. If transfer is not approved, a second review will determine whether prosecution is possible and in what forum. The preference is for prosecution in Article III courts or under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), but military commissions, perhaps with revised authorities, would remain an option. If there are detainees who cannot be transferred or prosecuted, the review will examine the lawful options for dealing with them. The Attorney General will coordinate the review and the Secretaries of Defense, State, and Homeland Security as well as the DNI and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff will participate. The Executive Order directs the Secretary of State to seek international cooperation aimed at achieving the transfers of detainees The Order directs the Secretary of Defense to halt military commission proceedings pending the results of the review. Finally, the Executive Order requires that conditions of confinement at Guantanamo, until its closure, comply with Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions and all other applicable laws. Executive Order regarding Detainee Policy Executive Order creates a Special Task Force, co-chaired by the Attorney General and the Secretary of Defense, to conduct a review of detainee policy going forward. The group will consider policy options for apprehension, detention, trial, transfer, or release of detainees. Other Task Force participants include the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Director of National Intelligence, the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The Special Task Force must submit its report to the President within 180 days. Executive Order regarding Interrogation Executive Order revokes Executive Order 13440 that interpreted Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions. It requires that all interrogations of detainees in armed conflict, by any government agency, follow the Army Field Manual interrogation guidelines. The Order also prohibits reliance on any Department of Justice or other legal advice concerning interrogation that was issued between September 11, 2001 and January 20, 2009. The Order requires all departments and agencies to provide the ICRC access to detainees in a manner consistent with Department of Defense regulations and practice. It also orders the CIA to close all existing detention facilities and prohibits it from operating detention facilities in the future. Finally, the Order creates a Special Task Force with two missions. The Task Force will conduct a review of the Army Field Manual interrogation guidelines to determine whether different or additional guidance is necessary for the CIA. It will also look at rendition and other policies for transferring individuals to third countries to be sure that our policies and practices comply with all obligations and are sufficient to ensure that individuals do not face torture and cruel treatment if transferred. This Task Force will be led by the Attorney General with the Secretary of Defense and the Director of National Intelligence as co-Vice Chairs. Presidential Memorandum on Review of the Detention of al-Marri The President instructed the Attorney General, the Secretaries of Defense, State, and Homeland Security, and the Director of National Intelligence to conduct a review of the status of the detainee Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri who is currently held at the Naval Brig in Charleston, South Carolina. This will ensure the same kind of legal and factual review is undertaken of the al-Marri case that is being undertaken of the Guantanamo cases."

1/22/2009 7:51:59 PM

well, i guess there goes half the business out at the Global Transpark in Kinston

i'm kidding

OR AM I

1/22/2009 8:05:31 PM

i can't wait till all those Gitmo enemy combatants are free roaming the US, since their own countries won't take them back.

1/22/2009 8:09:30 PM

it's a shame bush had to fuck our legal system in exchange for expediency. i'm glad that obama isn't going to follow bush's example.

1/22/2009 8:11:59 PM

Quote :

"i can't wait till all those Gitmo enemy combatants are free roaming the US, since their own countries won't take them back."

Yeah, because they're just being dumped on the streets like that. No investigation, no nothing. And none of them were possibly swept up indiscriminately - they all must be guilty. Why else would they be in Gitmo? And surely, someone such as yourself has indisputable evidence of each and every one of those peoples' guilt.

I mean, look at those 17 Uighers they freed. Man, Bush was such a softie on terrorism. And to think, he even dumped 2/3 of them right out of Gitmo, before Obama ever even took office. Lordy, how can we possibly sleep at night knowing this?

And I mean, the same government that brought us wonders like the DMV and the Department of Homeland Security could never, ever possibly fuck up. Especially when plenty of the people weren't even rounded up by us in particular, but by bounty hunters, who never, ever take shortcuts or just round up random people for money.

I mean, don't you watch Dog?

I'm so glad that fine people of your high intellectual caliber are out there looking out for our interests, with such insightful analysis. It really helps me sleep easy at night.

[Edited on January 22, 2009 at 8:18 PM. Reason : .]

1/22/2009 8:16:53 PM

Quote :

"Better 1,000 innocent men are locked up than one guilty man roam free."

1/22/2009 8:28:25 PM

anyone else hate the word "gitmo"?

1/22/2009 8:38:38 PM

^^Um, no.

(and whatever pic you linked isn't working)

[Edited on January 22, 2009 at 8:40 PM. Reason : carrot]

1/22/2009 8:39:55 PM

^^^yes I know some were. But you can't transfer them to a facility in the US and they try them in a civilian court of law, which is what looks like what will happen.

1/22/2009 8:55:50 PM

after reading some of the horror stories about innocents that were placed there, i say good riddance.

1/22/2009 8:57:28 PM

Quote :

"you can't transfer them to a facility in the US and they try them in a civilian court of law, which is what looks like what will happen."

you can't? do explain

1/22/2009 9:03:35 PM

What are we going to do, give them criminal trials like common criminals. Is the DA or Federal Prosecutor going to go on a fact finding trip to Afghanistan to look for evidence. Is he going to subpoena witnesses from Afghanistan. Is there going to be burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Will they get a public defender or can they retain their own. Does anyone else see how retarded this is, for captured militants not part of a legitimate army to be tried this way.

[Edited on January 22, 2009 at 10:01 PM. Reason : .]

1/22/2009 10:00:26 PM

Yeah, let's just hold them forever in legal limbo with no way to even contest their guilt.

It's flawless.

1/22/2009 10:05:42 PM

^^^for starters they weren't read their Miranda rights, b/c they're not US CIVILIANS. You try them that way and every single case will be thrown out.

enemy combatant = military court.

^I love how you're saying that b/c I'm against releasing them I'm against trying them period

[Edited on January 22, 2009 at 10:13 PM. Reason : k]

1/22/2009 10:13:11 PM

seriously

i dont see how anyone can be for ^^.

It makes me sick to think people are held in limbo with no chance to even prove their innocence (or guilt)

You can still put them through a military court proceeding, but many of these people were detained without just cause and are just being held there.

[Edited on January 22, 2009 at 10:14 PM. Reason : .]

1/22/2009 10:13:54 PM

^I'm against that. But I don't see the problem with leaving the base open and actually doing the trials.

1/22/2009 10:21:51 PM

Quote :

"the full text of today's executive orders:"

[nitpick] Unless Obama likes writing his executive orders in the third person, somehow I doubt that's the actual text of the orders. Or is that really the way that executive orders are written?[/nitpick]

1/22/2009 10:22:33 PM

So, for the record, if Republican18 were to be captured by a foreign nation, imprisoned overseas, and denied any and all legal rights, he'd be cool being held without trial forever--it'd be a huge pain in the ass for the people who ruined his life.

1/22/2009 10:23:54 PM

^^^ do you think it could be due to the negative connotation that comes with the name Guantanamo bay?

I don't know, I'm just assuming that it could play a role in the decision making process

[Edited on January 22, 2009 at 10:25 PM. Reason : .]

1/22/2009 10:25:28 PM

nah, that's just a summary

here's the full text version

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/executive_orders/

1/22/2009 10:25:45 PM

Weren't they granted constitutional rights, and if so then wouldn't military tribunal/martial typw trial be out of the question?

The fact is that regardless of the way that you feel about it we have to apply the law the same way to everyone or we discredit our own system. I think that losing the tenuous grip on the legal system is far more terrifying than 200 more terrorists (maybe) running around to add to the millions that have been free for years and will be for a long time.

1/22/2009 10:29:10 PM

im not for holding them forever, i am for military tribunals

1/22/2009 10:38:31 PM

yeah let's trot them out in front of a kangaroo court

again, if you were arrested arbitrarily in a foreign country you'd flip your shit if you got put in front of a military tribunal

1/22/2009 10:45:13 PM

Indeed

But I would have also been an idiot for being a foreigner just wandering around in a country where there's a war going on.

1/22/2009 10:59:36 PM

Quote :

"if you were arrested arbitrarily in a foreign country"

thats a big stretch to say that these enemy fighters were arrested arbitrarily

1/22/2009 11:03:26 PM

funny thing is that people will believe that all of these secret illegal prisons are all going to shut down just because obama signed something

1/22/2009 11:09:40 PM

Quote :

"they weren't read their Miranda rights"

oh what's that? now you're worried about their rights?

1/22/2009 11:14:34 PM

Well, we could hope that, since he's the head of the executive branch, his orders might actually do something.

1/22/2009 11:19:40 PM

These places are only being shut down for symbolic reasons. No brown people are being released in Raleigh so all of you can stop shitting yourselves in fear.

1/22/2009 11:32:56 PM

Quote :

"^^Um, no. (and whatever pic you linked isn't working)"

It was a picture of dwight schrute

thats a quote of his

obviously a butchering of a much better quote

1/23/2009 3:03:22 AM

Ah, gotcha. I don't watch 'The Office.'

1/23/2009 8:54:35 AM

Quote :

"yeah let's trot them out in front of a kangaroo court again, if you were arrested arbitrarily in a foreign country you'd flip your shit if you got put in front of a military tribunal"

this is where you guys lose your argument. you hate the US so much that you dont trust us to do public military tribunals of enemy combatants, even with your boy BO overseeing everything. its not enough. its never enough. the next thing you know, you are going to be bitching that the public defenders are not up to snuff and you want the taxpayer to hire 'good' lawyers for you them.

it will never stop with some of you.

1/23/2009 9:34:46 AM

Quote :

"you hate the US so much"

Could everyone please stop saying this? I'm really sick of having to hear how anti-american I am just b/c I think differently than you.

1/23/2009 10:02:30 AM

Quote :

"you hate the US so much"

are you really this dumb?

1/23/2009 10:05:39 AM

Quote :

"this is where you guys lose your argument. you hate the US so much that you dont trust us to do public military tribunals of enemy combatants, even with your boy BO overseeing everything. its not enough. its never enough. the next thing you know, you are going to be bitching that the public defenders are not up to snuff and you want the taxpayer to hire 'good' lawyers for you them. it will never stop with some of you."

I bet you think John Adams was a terrorist redcoat sympathizer too, don't you? (Assuming you even know who he is.)

1/23/2009 11:29:42 AM

Quote :

"this is where you guys lose your argument. you hate the US so much that you dont trust us to do public military tribunals of enemy combatants, even with your boy BO overseeing everything. its not enough. its never enough. the next thing you know, you are going to be bitching that the public defenders are not up to snuff and you want the taxpayer to hire 'good' lawyers for you them. it will never stop with some of you."

You're right, settling for mediocrity, at best, is a great practice.

1/23/2009 1:00:13 PM

^ come on, not another Herb thread...

oh nevermind...

1/23/2009 1:10:03 PM

how can he close what doesnt exist????

1/23/2009 2:08:28 PM

Quote :

"Could everyone please stop saying this? I'm really sick of having to hear how anti-american I am just b/c I think differently than you. "

did you or did you not call it a "kangaroo court" implying that it is corrupt and faulty, simply because it was being run by the US military? you gave no other reason as to why it could not be done fairly. some of you hate the US (specifically the US military) for what they do and you absolutely fail to see any good at all in anything that they do. any mention of the military or military actions or military proposals is immediately met with a sarcastic remark.

Quote :

"I bet you think John Adams was a terrorist redcoat sympathizer too, don't you? (Assuming you even know who he is.)"

who? oh wait I saw the HBO show. nevermind. he looked like the guy from sideways.

Quote :

"You're right, settling for mediocrity, at best, is a great practice. "

HAHAHAHHAHAHA SEE??

1/23/2009 2:39:13 PM

i guess it's a good publicity stunt - who believes they'll all go away?

1/23/2009 2:40:24 PM

Quote :

"did you or did you not call it a "kangaroo court" "

Actually that wasn't me -- that was someone else. I was just speaking in general that the term "anti-american" and saying how liberals "hate the US" is thrown around way too much.

I'm sure he doesn't hate the US. Just like I'm sure other liberals like him, for instance me and George W. Bush, all don't hate the US either.

1/23/2009 2:50:37 PM

Quote :

" did you or did you not call it a "kangaroo court" implying that it is corrupt and faulty, simply because it was being run by the US military?"

people currently in the us military in positions that deal with this court have said the same thing.

if it was a standard military tribunal, where there is established precedent and rules, it would be an entirely different matter.

1/23/2009 3:17:02 PM

Quote :

" I mean, the same government that brought us wonders like the DMV and the Department of Homeland Security could never, ever possibly fuck up."

This made me snort coffee out of my nose laughing lol

Quote :

"of the people weren't even rounded up by us in particular, but by bounty hunters, who never, ever take "

I WANNA PLAY BOBA FETT IN IRAQ!!

Quote :

"I'm so glad that fine people of your high intellectual caliber are out there looking out for our interests, with such insightful analysis. It really helps me sleep easy at night. "

good going

Quote :

"starters they weren't read their Miranda rights, b/c they're not US CIVILIANS"

I actually dont agree with reading criminals their miranda rights. If you are so dumb to blurt out a confession
or testimony that proves your guilt than its your own damn fault. Maybe our courts would not be so clogged up and
we could save $millions if not $billions of tax payer dollars on letigation.

Quote :

"o, for the record, if Republican18 were to be captured by a foreign nation, imprisoned overseas, and denied any and all legal rights, he'd be cool being held without trial forever--it'd be a huge pain in the ass for the people who ruined his life."

Better to lock away 1000 innocents than let 1 guilty get away AM I RITE?

Quote :

"I bet you think John Adams was a terrorist redcoat sympathizer too, don't you? (Assuming you even know who he is.) "

I bet the british locked away and impressed many of George Washington's buddies and threw away the key for being terrorists.

1/23/2009 3:46:39 PM

Quote :

" people currently in the us military in positions that deal with this court have said the same thing. if it was a standard military tribunal, where there is established precedent and rules, it would be an entirely different matter."

ok fair enough. I havent read about that but I will take your word. for the record, I am for FAIR and impartial military/intel panels reviewing the cases of those detained.

1/23/2009 4:10:43 PM