I'm looking for some advice.

Currently, I have 1 10" Audiobahn AW1051T - 6 years old , 300w rms
http://www.amazon.com/Audiobahn-10-600-Watt-Subwoofer-AW1051T/dp/B0000C454V

I'm running it with a Sony Xplod XM-1002HX - 100 watts x 2 or 280 watts x 1 into 4 ohms and 140 watts x 2 into 2 ohms
http://www.carsound.com/review_archive/amps/xm1002hx.html

box:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380070734110&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=

I'm not really happy with the way it sounds. I have a small hatchback...so there is a lot of bass...but its just not clean. I am looking for a hard hit, but also a clean precise hit...instead of just loud vibrations. I messed with the low pass filter a lot...no major improvement.

So, I think I'm gonna upgrade my sub. Can anyone please recommend something? I don't want to spend money on a new sub if its not gonna be much better than my old one. Thanks!

1/24/2009 3:21:38 PM

I don't know that a new sub is going to help you a great deal. How low have you tried setting the low pass? What kind of music are you usually listening to?

Also, I'm gonna guess you have a relatively cheaply constructed car since its a hatchback, so that could be causing a lot of the vibration sound itself.

1/25/2009 1:45:59 PM

You really need a new sub.

Alpine type-R
JL 10w3
Memphis M3 10''
There are quite a few others in that range.

Or some simple modification to your box, and put a high quality 8w7 in there.

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 2:25 PM. Reason : .]

1/25/2009 2:23:36 PM

i'd replace the entire system. any of those subs recomeneded subs would laugh at a 280w sony amp. also look into deadening the rear area of the car. those subs will also be louder and cause more vibrations i'd recomend a dynamatt trunk kit (30% off at cc right now with our liquidation sale.) remove the panels put on the dynamatt and make sure u tighten the panel screws and replace any broken clips.

1/25/2009 4:48:32 PM

^Where I completely agree with everything you are saying... if on a budget just start with one problem and work your way up.

The sub is total garbage, and needs to be replaced.
The amp is pretty stout, as I have used the same model amp to power a Cerwin Vega 300W RMS 12'' sub with fantastic results.
Dynamat will make a big difference as well, especially if you deaden the hatch.

1/25/2009 5:30:20 PM

Thanks guys..I just ran to Sound Solutions and bought a Boston Acoustics G2
http://www.crutchfieldenespanol.com/crutchfield/enes/24/_www_crutchfield_com/p_065G21044/Boston-Acoustics-G210-44-DVC.html?o=v&tp=111&tab=review#tab

for $75 bucks.

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 5:52 PM. Reason : G2]

1/25/2009 5:51:29 PM

if you bought that exact woofer u screwed up.. it's dual 4 ohm coils meaning u can wire it for 2 ohms or 8 ohms. your amp will either fry or not put out enough power to move it. you want a dual 2ohm if possible.

1/25/2009 11:37:37 PM

^ I got the single 4-ohm version. So..does that mean I'm OK?

[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 12:01 AM. Reason : .]

1/25/2009 11:55:20 PM

yes

1/26/2009 12:07:01 AM

Quote :

"if you bought that exact woofer u screwed up.. it's dual 4 ohm coils meaning u can wire it for 2 ohms or 8 ohms. your amp will either fry or not put out enough power to move it. you want a dual 2ohm if possible."

Come on. The difference in 140w and 280w is going to be imperceptible to most nearly everyone unless they are running sine waves through and holding an spl meter in their hand.

I have a single dual voice coil 10w3d4 I've had for years being driven by an old school 50x4 200x2 PPI Sedona. The w3 I think should take 150 per coil, so I bridged both pairs and fed them to each coil of the sub. It was pretty loud but it basically sounded like shit in my opinion and I speculate it was because each coil was receiving a slightly different version of the signal. I switched it to wire the coils in series for 8 ohm and fed a single bridged pair to it for 100w and was blown away by just how much 100w will put out.

1/26/2009 9:49:02 AM

Quote :

"Come on. The difference in 140w and 280w is going to be imperceptible to most nearly everyone unless they are running sine waves through and holding an spl meter in their hand."

You sure about that?

1/26/2009 9:52:21 AM

Should be a 3db increase with double the power. So that is perceptable, but not drastic.

1/26/2009 10:06:51 AM

well...I was wrong. I have 2 4 ohm dual voice coil after all...I can't take it back.

Can anyone please recommend what type of wiring I should do...Once again, I dont care about the loudness..just need the beats to be tight...something that can keep up with a drum beat.

The wiring diagrams here all have 2 terminals for DVC..mine only has 1
http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/learningcenter/car/subwoofers_wiring.html

Is this my only option?
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/ca/learningcenter/car/subwoofer_wiring/1DVC_2-ohm_2ch.jpg


[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 12:26 PM. Reason : .]

1/26/2009 12:11:02 PM

I think my amp can do both 2 and 4 ohm. HI-Current and HI-Voltage mode

http://www.xplodsony.com/files/manuals//XM-1002HX_Install_Manual.pdf

I feel so freaking stupid reading this. If someone can shed some light on this, I would be grateful.

[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 12:39 PM. Reason : .]

1/26/2009 12:38:48 PM

Are you sure they didn't give you a single coil sub? Looking at this

http://mobile.bostonacoustics.com/Manuals/G2_Man.pdf

it looks like they make dual and single coil versus of that sub. If it is a dual coil sub, there most certainly is a way to select between the coils in series or parallel.

Quote :

"Should be a 3db increase with double the power. So that is perceptable, but not drastic."

I said with sine waves you could detect it, but under 95% of your listening conditions to most every user, they won't be able to really pick out the difference in 140w and 280w with music. And if the 140w is less distorted than the 280w, at similar limits the 140w is going to sound a lot better.

1/26/2009 1:36:42 PM

So, I decided to run it at 2 ohms. Amp can do 1, 2 and 4 ohms...it runs a bit hot, but whatever..

It sounds 1000 times better than I imagined. Very tight and hits hard...i'm probably only using 10% of what it can do (Level is set at 30% and my head unit bass is set to -2), but still raises my hair.

Thanks everyone...especially Daryl.

1/26/2009 10:45:47 PM

3 db is a the thereretical number under ideal condtions. in a case like this the increase could be even more. by under powering the sub it's not reaching it's full excursion. by doubling the power and reaching full excursion, and maximizing cabin gain. it becomes a domnio effect that increases the output.

1/27/2009 2:49:51 PM

Picked up a bulk pack and trunk kit of Dynomatt today from CC. $75 for a bulk pack isn't too bad.

1/27/2009 4:16:25 PM

Quote :

"powering the sub it's not reaching it's full excursion."

So? Is there something magic about the sub that it outputs more power than is put in to it near it's excursion limit? Does the linearly moving piston deliver more displacement the farther out it is driven? No.

Quote :

"and maximizing cabin gain"

The cabin gain isn't a multiplicative function where the more power you put in the more you get out. It is there below X frequency (different depending on the size/length of your vehicle) and will apply it's gain at whatever the reference level is. The cabin gain itself being in the 6-12dB range that begins making the doubling of the amplifier power irrelevant ESPECIALLY when we are considering 99% of your listening purposes.

Sure, it's cool from time to time to really blast your setup and feel hair tingle and hear your voice modulate, and if you already have the equipment then why not extract max power out of the amp. Anyway, the point that got all this started was 140w isn't enough power to move a 300w RMS max sub, and that's just crazy talk.

1/27/2009 6:54:20 PM

Are you honestly saying more air isn't displaced when the sub has more excursion?
And 140W RMS isn't enough to power a 300W sub.

Please leave.

And wtf is RMS max ?

[Edited on January 27, 2009 at 9:48 PM. Reason : .]

1/27/2009 9:47:15 PM

Let me be clear. He stated that underpowering wasn't going to drive the sub to full excursion - that doesn't exactly answer the question on whether 140w is enough. You don't have to push the driver to its excursion limit for it to be more efficient (as seems to be implied). In fact, it will be quite happy to place nice musical bass in the middle of it's mechanical range.

Quote :

"And 140W RMS isn't enough to power a 300W sub. "

I've got 10w3 rated at 300w with a 100w on it in a ported enclosure and I assure you it will drive the sub WELL into audible distortion. In a sealed enclosure, the sub behaves a little better at its lowest frequencies, but 100w is still plenty to push it into audible distortion.

Quote :

"And wtf is RMS max ?"

It isn't an industry standard term or anything, but its pretty obvious what I was talking about.

1/27/2009 10:14:34 PM

I guess my "and 140W RMS isn't enough to power a 300W sub." comment should have ended in a question. You said:

Quote :

"Anyway, the point that got all this started was 140w isn't enough power to move a 300w RMS max sub"

So make up your mind, is it enough or not?
I could have miss-interpreted with the following of ",and that's just crazy talk" though.

And there is MAX, and RMS, no such bs as RMS max.

[Edited on January 27, 2009 at 11:10 PM. Reason : .]

1/27/2009 11:08:59 PM

Quote :

"I could have miss-interpreted with the following of ",and that's just crazy talk" though."

You'd think at least everything in a single sentence would be a related thought. I'll split for you

"140w isn't enough power to move a 300w RMS max sub" -> "thats crazy talk"

Quote :

"And there is MAX, and RMS, no such bs as RMS max."

Yes, I realize the car audio people have resulted to referring to the the RMS capability of the sub in "maximum" terms, I apologize for the confusion.

1/27/2009 11:26:22 PM

Quote :

"I've got 10w3 rated at 300w with a 100w on it in a ported enclosure and I assure you it will drive the sub WELL into audible distortion"

if you are driving a sub designed to handle 250w-500w (depending on the version) to audible distortion with a 100w amp IT'S NOT THE SUB it's your amp sending a clipped signal. point being you can drive a car with your feet ...doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Quote :

"Please leave."

lol

[Edited on January 27, 2009 at 11:51 PM. Reason : .]

1/27/2009 11:49:45 PM

If you want, you can come to Apex and we'll load it up with an 8ohm 200w load, drive a frequency generator through the amp and stick a scope on the output and you'll see pure sine waves WELL past 100w.

This amp is American made from the nighties with ballsy Sanken transistors and a beefy power supply with tons of headroom behind it. You can't really hear clipping through a sub anyway, the distortion inherent in the mechanics of the sub itself will tend to swamp it. They aren't twitters which sound terribly gritty when driven (and usually die quickly) with a distorted signal.

1/28/2009 9:17:32 AM