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 Message Boards » » Lotus 7 replicas / kit cars Page [1] 2, Next  
sumfoo1
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Are there any availible in the us that are street/ emissions legal ?? Where could i aquire one ??

[Edited on March 27, 2009 at 3:48 PM. Reason : Stupid iPhone...]

3/27/2009 3:42:59 PM

Skack
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Quote :
"Where couldni squire one ??"

3/27/2009 3:45:58 PM

Ahmet
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I'd be interested in where this discussion goes as well. Occasionally I see a complete or partial kit come up for sale. Lo-cost is one option I suppose. The whole miata thing just screams old British (except reliable) anyway...

3/27/2009 5:21:51 PM

jcfox2
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Caterham sales cars in the US. I am pretty sure that they are street legal, they are definitely emissions legal because they use the Ford Duratec motors. Prices start at $30k, but I doubt that the prices are up to date.

http://www.uscaterham.com/showroom/comparison-chart.html

3/27/2009 7:31:22 PM

theDuke866
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I'd like to have a bike-engined Seven replica with IRS.

I wish there were more kit cars biased for performance over looks.

3/27/2009 8:39:51 PM

Jek
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Flyin' Miata sells a British (Westfield) Miata based kit:
http://www.flyinmiata.com/westfield/

I don't like the look as much as Caterham, but they're probably cheaper and possibly even faster than standard Caterhams.

3/28/2009 1:28:45 PM

Noen
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Quote :
"Are there any availible in the us that are street/ emissions legal ?? Where could i aquire one ??"


In NC, you can register any kit you buy and finish (of the Lotus 7 variety).

But I'd just look for a completed car on sale. They are pretty inexpensive (pristine 7 cars run 10-14k) and saves you all the time and hassle. Unless you just really want to build one yourself, if that's the case, there's a ton of kit options, or total DIY options out there.

There's a pretty famous book that walks you through building a 7 car with just a bandsaw and a welder.

3/28/2009 5:55:42 PM

theDuke866
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I don't think i've ever seen a non POS Seven in the $10-14k range. Where are you finding these?

3/29/2009 2:53:14 AM

Noen
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Westfield-SEi-SPa-Ford-X-Flow-1-7L-Lotus-7-Replica-1700_W0QQitemZ260382379772QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item260382379772&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A317%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

There's a near mint super 7 replica, 1,300 miles for 20k.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lotus-7-Replica_W0QQitemZ200325640085QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item200325640085&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A317%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

There's one you can probably pick up for under 10k (probably well under). It's not pretty, but it'll haul ass.

--------

The problem with finding them, is the non-caterham kits get snapped up FAST. I've seen a few pass through lotustalk.com, and all the sub 15k cars sell within a day or so.

The caterham kits are much more expensive, but also crazy higher performance. Even then, you can find those for <22-25k without looking too much (well under half the original sticker)

3/29/2009 6:51:18 AM

69
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i'd rather build a cobra

5/25/2009 4:24:31 PM

theDuke866
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hmm, would it be blasphemy to build an IRS Cobra with an LSx? I could get on board with that.

Also, I saw a nice looking Seven in downtown New Bern the other day.

5/25/2009 4:33:06 PM

shmorri2
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I saw a picture of someone who's snake had an identity crisis. They fitted it with a viper v10...

[edit] Quick google search:


[Edited on May 25, 2009 at 7:14 PM. Reason : .]

5/25/2009 7:03:35 PM

theDuke866
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While Mopar-based, that's not that heretic if you view the Viper RT-10 and GTS as being the spiritual successors of the Cobra and Daytona, respectively.

5/25/2009 7:12:19 PM

sumfoo1
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But it just made the cobra sound funny

5/26/2009 12:48:35 PM

69
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better than a trouser snake

6/20/2009 12:13:58 PM

qntmfred
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bump

9/12/2012 8:22:57 AM

TKE-Teg
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Quote :
"better than a trouser snake"


lol

9/12/2012 8:54:21 AM

theDuke866
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I have a deposit placed on this little monstrosity:

http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=13842






240 rwhp, probably something like 1300-1400 lbs. Turbocharged Miata drivetrain and IRS.

9/12/2012 9:25:57 AM

smoothcrim
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Quote :
"BOUT
DAMN
TIME"

9/12/2012 10:01:43 AM

dustm
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frickin sweet man. that thing is gonna really rip

9/12/2012 10:45:41 AM

Skack
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Looks like fun.

9/12/2012 10:56:23 AM

Ahmet
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Awesome dude, looks rather well done also. I would love to check that thing out. Congrats. As an added bonus, it's city MPG is probably pretty respectable.

When are you getting rid of the tractor (vette)?

9/12/2012 11:03:30 AM

theDuke866
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^^^^ haha, well it's not like the market is just flooded with Sevens to choose from.

^^^ Umm, yeah. It ought to be piss-your-pants fast, at least up until it starts running into a giant wall of aerodynamic drag due to its parachute-like Cd. It'll have 50% better power to weight than my Z06, AND shorter gearing.

^ Up for sale right now. Big, crude hammer that it is, I really enjoy it when I'm driving the hell out of it...it's just that it's kind of lackluster (aside from thrust) at anything less than all-out.

...and I have a 70-mile round trip work commute now, so I want something smooth, quiet, and especially fuel efficient.

[Edited on September 12, 2012 at 11:58 AM. Reason : ]

9/12/2012 11:54:12 AM

sumfoo1
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Cts-v ?

Thrust and comfort

9/12/2012 1:41:54 PM

Jek
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Beautiful car...except from the rear

I much prefer the standard 7 look with the fenders not molded into the rear body like that, but I bet that helps cut the cost on a Locost kit.

Looks like a really cool ride though, hope you get it!

9/12/2012 4:01:50 PM

smoothcrim
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I think a bumper would make the rear look a lot better

9/12/2012 4:48:14 PM

Skack
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^ Agreed on the bumper, but a little work with an angle grinder to distinctly separate the fender from the body before painting would have been nice. Even if it was just a small triangle shaped notch it would have helped. Might have had to fab up something to support the lower part of the fenders, but it wouldn't have been too hard.




[Edited on September 12, 2012 at 5:06 PM. Reason : l]

9/12/2012 5:05:32 PM

tchenku
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http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/pdf/USAGTRForm.pdf

9/12/2012 6:56:11 PM

theDuke866
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^^^^ It's not a kit; it was all fabbed up from scratch. I think the dude wanted to just be a little different--however, I also think it looks like shit from the rear. It's constructed like a regular Seven, with a tub and fenders, and then he filled them. I think I'm gonna grind all that shit out and repaint.

9/12/2012 11:58:14 PM

Skack
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Were you looking at this same car earlier this year or sometime last year? Seems like I've seen that booty before.

9/13/2012 9:48:01 AM

theDuke866
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Yeah I tried to buy it a little over a year ago

9/13/2012 10:58:58 AM

darscuzlo
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9/19/2012 8:32:50 AM

theDuke866
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So I finally got all the mechanical issues caused by previous owners (after the original builder) unfucked, waited for warm weather and a local autocross, and took the 7 out.

Holy shit what a handful.

It was basically uncontrollable on my first 4 runs. After that, I started taking lots of air out of the tires, particularly the rears, and it became a somewhat manageable handful. I ended up about a second short of FTD in official runs, then took some more air out and got within 0.1 second of FTD unofficially in late afternoon fun runs. Even then, you have to be on your A-game all the time. I built up enough heat to raise the tire pressures by 4 psi without realizing it; I spun it twice again on the next run. After that, I started checking px before every run. The lift throttle oversteer is, umm, significant. I let one of the fastest dudes there drive it (national SCCA competitor. He spun it twice in one run, haha...I let him run it again, and he just did everything very point & shoot, matching my best time to that point almost exactly, but not tempting the car's ill-tempered side nearly as much with that style. I then took a mixed approach, running the more fluid "momentum style" that I like for the most part, but point/shooting a couple problematic sections...that's when I cut the near-FTD time.

The car is 49/51, has square tire setup (205/50), and 450 in-lb springs all around. I got down to 22/17 psi F/R...gonna try a couple lower next time. I'm also gonna get the alignment checked. If that doesn't solve it, I guess I'll need to go with softer rear springs, wider rear wheels/tires, or both.


What say you, TWW Garage?

[Edited on April 28, 2014 at 9:20 PM. Reason : ]

4/28/2014 9:17:27 PM

Noen
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Quote :
"The lift throttle oversteer"


This scares the shit out of me in my Lotus. It's overwhelmingly the biggest cause of spins and shit crazy road wrecks. A light, balanced RWD car is the perfect storm. Even with traction control in mine, it doesn't help at all, once you break loose you just have to hold on and hope you spin clean. One of the main reasons i haven't gone with a SC kit yet.

4/28/2014 11:06:23 PM

sumfoo1
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Ok I will try to keep this logical since I tend to ramble incoherently.

First I would do the alignment as you said. It's relatively cheap and gives you a solid baseline. If you take it to someone who really knows what they are doing they will be able to offer you better opinions on your issues than any forum.

Otherwise:

1. Do you have any straight line traction issues?

If so start with tires if not start with suspension.

2. Without knowing what type of suspension you have and how well it controls the wheels. (Lotus 7s like kit cobras seem to range from the cheapest thing to make the chassis roll to a full on race suspension made street legal by a "replica" body and title.)
I would try to soften the rear sway of you have one. Assuming your shocks/springs are currently matched well.

4/29/2014 7:44:59 AM

TKE-Teg
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What tires are you running Duke? Also, you're gonna go lower than 17 psi in the rears next time?!? I know the car is light but, damn man, wouldn't that increase the chance of debeading a tire greatly?

4/29/2014 8:08:15 AM

zxappeal
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What I wanna know is why in the hell do you have the same spring rates front and rear? Static weight balance is only part of the equation, especially when you have the sudden weight shift when you lift. And you either need less swaybar in back or more in front.

And yes to check your alignment. If you have an IRS setup, toe out on the rear under deceleration can make the car violently unpredictable.

4/29/2014 9:22:42 AM

H8R
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aren't sway bars for body roll? I doubt this car has much of that, if it has sways at all

4/29/2014 5:45:47 PM

dtownral
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Track speeds with 17psi? Fuck that.

4/29/2014 5:47:36 PM

Ahmet
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Short version: Start looking at Loti’, super 7 and Exige!

Sway bars are for tuning handling, not really to resist “roll” per say. As for 17psi, keep in mind this Lotus doesn’t weigh much, so what you think of tire pressures for a street car aren’t necessarily applicable. The rear of my 996 turbo called for 44PSI if I remember correctly for example. Pretty high for a “car”.

Anyway, more discussions plz!

4/29/2014 7:41:38 PM

sumfoo1
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Sway bars do resist body roll but also control weight transfer and even camber when preventing roll in an irs setup.

Stiff front sways and soft rear sways develop a push. Vise versa causes oversteer.

4/29/2014 8:15:33 PM

dtownral
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Quote :
"The rear of my 996 turbo called for 44PSI if I remember correctly for example. "

is this example supposed to mean anything more than meeting your "i have to mention that i own a 996 in every post" requirement?

i know its lite, but he is trying to solve handling problem by adding excessive flex and movement to his tires by running them at low psi. excessive flex and movement causes excessive heat which leads to tire failure.

4/29/2014 8:32:11 PM

CuntPunter
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Oh shit, we got a tire expert up in here ya'll, back the fuck up.

4/29/2014 9:01:20 PM

dtownral
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CuntPuncher

[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 9:42 PM. Reason : apparently cuntpunter is autocorrected to cuntpuncher]

4/29/2014 9:41:34 PM

theDuke866
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Sways are for arresting roll, too, without resorting to bone-jarring spring and compression damping rates in "normal" cars. That, of course, has an impact on handling in terms of transitional behavior, etc.

At any rate, there are no sways on this car, and it doesn't need them due to very stiff suspension and very low Cg. There is no perceptible body roll (or squat, or dive). It drives like a big kart with a shitload of power.

As far as tire pressures, I knew that lighter cars needed less pressure, and R-comps tend to need less pressure than street tires at track/auto-x pace (as they're so stiff, you aren't managing sidewall flex so much. You can air mine down to 13 psi and they don't appear slack to the eye.) I didn't quite realize how far you can go on a car like this, though. The original builder told me that he actually ran 19 psi in front and 15-16 in the rear). I don't think breaking the bead would be an issue. I chalked the tires, and I'm not rolling them over even at 17 psi. This wasn't a particularly grippy surface...maybe 15 on a really sticky racetrack would be too low. The car is just damned unmanageable even if you get the rears up into the low 20s, though.

As far as suspension design, it's builder-fabricated double-wishbone type up front with coil overs, and Miata rear subframe/suspension (also double-wishbone) welded into the frame in the rear, with coil overs.

As far as straight-line traction issues...well, I mean, it's a tick over 1300 lbs dry, with 240+ rwhp and 4.30:1 gears...so if you hit it hard enough, it has traction issues everywhere...and yeah, a little more straight line hook would be nice, but that's not where it's really seriously deficient. I think a fresh set of even softer R-comps (50 TWR instead of 100 like my 3-year old NT-01s) would probably make the straight line grip manageable.

I would agree that tire px should be for fine tuning, not mitigating a flawed suspension setup. I think that it definitely needs softer rear springs. Whether or not I should also go with slightly wider rear tires, I'm not sure.

[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 11:01 PM. Reason : don't want flex and movement in the tires. low psi is for larger contact patch area.]

4/29/2014 11:00:18 PM

Ahmet
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Quote :
"is this example supposed to mean anything more than meeting your "i have to mention that i own a 996 in every post" requirement?"


Well I phrased it that way b/c it’s a car I have personal experience with. Front tires (which obviously don’t have as much weight on them) called for around 34psi. And for the record, I do not own a Porsche of any sort at the moment. In fact, all I’ve got are a Mini, a 3 series and a Volvo. I’m a sad excuse for a man, a shell of my former self. :’(

4/30/2014 12:00:45 AM

theDuke866
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Minor correction: the front suspension arms were not fab'd by the builder...he ordered them custom built from somewhere.

Also, reading through the build threads, it appears that the frame has a LOT of extra bracing that an engineer developed with modern finite element analysis for much greater stiffness. also, it looks like he had the transmission beefed up internally, at least with stronger synchros. that's good, the miata trans isn't particularly stout in stock form.

He has a couple of build threads on different sites, but I think this is the best thread overall:

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/43-off-topic-discussions/240470-got-bored-so-lets-locost-build.html

4/30/2014 12:02:43 AM

dustm
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I want to build one of these so bad. It would be killer. I modeled a frame in solidworks from the book plans. I'd have to do an enlarged version for myself. 4" wider and longer and 2" higher would be about right. Id have a boat load of cnc plasma cut parts to make the build go quicker and more smoothly. It pays to build it in virtual space first. I really like the miata rear subframe approach too. I can imagine the solid axle version suffering a bit. I know it is silly but I really like the idea of a 1.9 tdi. I suppose a gasoline 4 cyl screamer makes the most sense though. Or maybe a ka24, or something else with a flat powerband.

5/2/2014 7:37:06 PM

theDuke866
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+4 frames are pretty common. I'm sure there are plans out there.

Modeling for much stiffer frames is already done, too. I'll point you toward the info in forums if you want. I think the stiff frame is actually in the build thread I posted for my car.

On a +4 frame, if you accounted for it from the beginning , I bet you could get an LSx in there. I almost bought a 7 with an aluminum Rover V8. V8s have been done. F20 or 13b would be great, too. (I think a bridge ported and/or blown 13b would be great. The polar moment would be so low with that little engine mounted far back!) Sportbike engines are a cool option, too (turbo busa motor! Sequential trans, to boot!)


The new Factory Five track day car with Subaru running gear is cool, too. The dude who built my car just completed and sold a sick one.


Live axle isn't he end of the world on a car like this, either. It can generate a lot of grip on a smooth surface, and it's easy. It's really made for autocrossing and road courses, which are generally pretty smooth. I wouldn't totally write off solid axle cars.

[Edited on May 2, 2014 at 10:44 PM. Reason : ]

5/2/2014 10:41:47 PM

dustm
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Yeah I was reading the thread you posted. Had to stop reading because I'm in the middle of moving

My friend made one with a 5.0 Mustang donor (he was after something more along the lines of hotrod). His is 4 inches wider but there's still not really enough knee and foot room for my tastes. I was under the impression that with the aluminum skin bonded the chassis stiffened up considerably. I suppose it would make sense to triangulate the areas without skin for sure... but I guess it really wouldn't hurt to triangulate erything. The guy that built yours does show a diagram in his thread with the extra tubes added.

What sort of longetivity do you think you would expect out of a turbo Hayabusa motor? I would guess less than the 13b by a good bit? And the 13b less durable than something with pee stains?

So a solid axle rear end Is fine but would be more likely to get upset by bumps than an IRS? Solid scenes certainly easier and cheaper to build. I wonder what sort of weight difference there is. Is it easier to find limited slip diffs for solid axle?

[Edited on May 2, 2014 at 11:21 PM. Reason : scenes=seems. phone is being weird. cant scoll down far enough]

5/2/2014 11:19:15 PM

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