http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090519/ap_on_bi_ge/us_autos_fleet_of_the_future

Quote :

"...The higher mileage and emissions standards set by the Obama administration on Tuesday, which begin to take effect in 2012 and are to be achieved by 2016, will transform the American car and truck fleet. The new rules would bring new cars and trucks sold in the United States to an average of 35.5 miles per gallon, about 10 mpg more than today's standards. Passenger cars will be required to get 39 mpg, light trucks 30 mpg..."

Is this the end of V8 trucks and sports cars? Is this the end of the rotary engine? Will we all be driving compact cars with turbo 4 bangers and diesels now?

5/20/2009 12:16:28 AM

do you know what an average is?

5/20/2009 12:23:27 AM

yes. but how many over 35mpg cars can you produce to make up for your 17-20mpg cars? The old standard was close to 25, and a lot of manufacturers mass produced low profit shotboxes way over that mileage standard to make it all work. But will that strategy continue to viable?

They also didn't say what mpg level will receive a gas guzzler tax now. What if under 30mpg (by however they will be calculating it) gets a gas guzzler tax in the new rules?

5/20/2009 12:43:33 AM

i have a feeling a lot more cars will become "light trucks"

5/22/2009 10:28:57 AM

Quote :

"Will we all be driving compact cars with turbo 4 bangers and diesels now?"

and why is that a bad thing

5/22/2009 11:19:51 AM

This could be weird.

I could see non-luxury brands surviving this pretty well, but all the other companies will end up having to castrate the shit out of their vehicles (or shrink them a good amount) to keep the fuel economy at this level while keeping performance at a tolerable level.

Or maybe we'll just see them all take the route of Tesla and branch into new propulsion markets which let them do whatever the hell they want.

5/23/2009 1:41:01 AM

There currently are MPG standards in place. Exceeding them is not an issue, other than the "gas guzzler tax" item you see on practically every Mercedes AMG vehicle, any M series BMW, as well as most sports cars. Manufacturers will be "fined" (as in taxed a tad more) when/if they don't meet this criteria. Doesn't seem like a big issue.

Also, note that Honda and Toyota are w/in 3mpg of achieving the fleet average from these standards, and they have most of a decade to make up the difference.

5/23/2009 1:54:55 AM

Quote :

"the "gas guzzler tax" item you see on practically every Mercedes AMG vehicle, any M series BMW, as well as most sports cars."

http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/420f06042.htm

at least 22.5 mpg No tax
at least 21.5, but less than 22.5 mpg $1000
at least 20.5, but less than 21.5 mpg $1300
at least 19.5, but less than 20.5 mpg $1700
at least 18.5, but less than 19.5 mpg $2100
at least 17.5, but less than 18.5 mpg $2600
at least 16.5, but less than 17.5 mpg $3000
at least 15.5, but less than 16.5 mpg $3700
at least 14.5, but less than 15.5 mpg $4500
at least 13.5, but less than 14.5 mpg $5400
at least 12.5, but less than 13.5 mpg $6400
less than 12.5 mpg $7700

I don't know what the new rate schedule will be, but if we add 8mpg across the board (translational movement of the curve) to bump the minimum to 30mpg, we'll have at least $6000 in gas guzzler taxes for just about any V8. That's all this really is, a tax and a PR campaign.







[Edited on May 23, 2009 at 10:09 PM. Reason : Obama used to drive a 300C and then sold it for a hybrid when he was campaigning]

5/23/2009 10:02:10 PM

It's a good start.

5/23/2009 11:06:08 PM

good thing my 7k# v8 turbodiesel gets 19 and soon to be 22+

6/13/2009 7:52:00 PM

Good start to what, screwing us? If you want a fuel efficient car, you have plenty of choices.

Ahh gotta love the government forcing you to do things

6/14/2009 2:18:29 AM

Don't look at it as the government "forcing" you to do something. Look at it as people making better choices with the governments assistance.

6/14/2009 4:12:26 AM

the government hasn't figured out that the problem isn't the vehicles but the illegal ( if they were on our shores ) activities of conglomerates like opec and the refining monopolies on our shores...


Grrr.... hopefully the next prez will fix this before it kills the rest of our auto industry.

6/14/2009 7:09:07 AM

Quote :

"Is this the end of the rotary engine?"

Not until 60k miles.


got em

6/14/2009 7:55:40 AM

Quote :

"hopefully the next prez will fix this before it kills the rest of our auto industry."

to be fair, the auto industry did a pretty good job killing itself by doing too little too late (i put a lot of blame on the UAW, too)

6/14/2009 8:18:19 AM

^you can't leave the gov't out, they're plenty to blame as well. Between CARB, regulations, and state gov'ts kissing foreign car manufacturers asses to get them to build plants here, it hasn't been good.


^^^^keep dreaming you idiot.

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 12:08 PM. Reason : D]

6/15/2009 12:08:09 PM

Quote :

"I could see non-luxury brands surviving this pretty well, but all the other companies will end up having to castrate the shit out of their vehicles (or shrink them a good amount) to keep the fuel economy at this level while keeping performance at a tolerable level."

I don't see MB or BMW suffering at all. Hell the powerful S class is already pretty fuel efficient. The S55-AMG and S600 get about ~30mpg highway already. Not to mention the S class was the first car to receive an environmental certificate from the German Commission on Technical Compliance.

6/15/2009 12:43:10 PM

Quote :

"you can't leave the gov't out, they're plenty to blame as well. Between CARB, regulations, and state gov'ts kissing foreign car manufacturers asses to get them to build plants here, it hasn't been good."

oh, i didn't mean to imply that i was absolving the government of responsibility...the auto industry (including the companies themselves, the UAW, and the government) has been a clusterfuck for years and it's no single group's fault

well, i did my part...i bought a saturn a few years ago

6/15/2009 2:14:33 PM

^^ I'm thinking about porky sporty sedan offerings like the G37 that get ~25-26 mpg on the highway. I mean many of the luxury car brands have already moved onto 6 speed automatic transmissions and so forth to keep their vehicles efficient (and quick to accelerate). I'm just wondering how much more they can do to the engine & transmission to increase fuel economy by more than 50% on the highway. I'm guessing this would lead to a reversal of the trend of making the same model of car bigger with each generation.

I can't imagine how bad the taxes are going to be on a new Maserati in 2016, haha. Not that people buying such vehicles really give a shit, it's just sort of a wow factor when you consider the gas guzzler tax (assuming it will shift in line with the upward shift in MPG standards).

6/15/2009 3:59:56 PM

Quote :

"I'm guessing this would lead to a reversal of the trend of making the same model of car bigger with each generation."

That would be a good thing probably, but really all that's happening is they're bringing in new models at the lower end to take up the slack. i.e. the Fit is probably the size that the Civic was 15-20 years ago, the current Civic is very close dimensionally to a 3rd gen ('86-'89) Accord, etc. The only problem I see with it is that folks who find a model of car they like and turn into repeat buyers may not consider if the car is bigger than they need, only that they like it and stick with the series, or that the cars they are considering have all moved up a class. I wonder how long it will be before the Accord becomes classified as a full-size car by the EPA?

Plus I think the public is becoming more accepting of truly small cars...the Smart is gaining in popularity, Toyota's IQ is about to hit the market, the new Fiat 500 will probably be sold here courtesy of the Chrysler deal...

And I have heard some pundits saying that this is the last hurrah for the current crop of V8 and ~300 HP V6 models, and that we're entering an era where performance cars will be neutered like they were in the late 70's and 80's. But in reality I think we're going to see more forced induction take the place of displacement, plus TDI models with their generous torque. It may be the end of the V8 luxury/sports sedan, at least as a viable mass-market option, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a turbo V6 version of the Mustang GT.

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 4:10 PM. Reason : d]

6/15/2009 4:07:35 PM

Quote :

"Fiat 500"

Sweet! I like the 500

^again...BMW/MB make efficient V6, V8 hell even V12's. It's just a question of improving on it. You are thinking domestic manufactures who are in the toilet anyway.

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 4:21 PM. Reason : .]

6/15/2009 4:20:09 PM

Quote :

"the auto industry did a pretty good job killing itself "

troo

again tke...stop going against the grain...just be one of the obama conformists and you wouldn't have to worry about stuff like this...idk about you but i dont like worrying about stuff like this

6/15/2009 6:45:42 PM

Quote :

"But in reality I think we're going to see more forced induction take the place of displacement"

I agree.

It's sad because turbo's kind of suck.

6/15/2009 6:51:16 PM

but, dude, its a turbo, man.........................

6/15/2009 7:11:43 PM

Quote :

"It's sad because turbo's kind of suck."

wut?

6/16/2009 11:03:16 AM

Quote :

"Toyota's IQ is about to hit the market"

is it being released as a scion? i take it we're not getting the diesel version

6/16/2009 11:24:42 AM

^^

I would explain but you would interpret my e-pinions as though I think they are facts and argue with me for 30 posts.

6/16/2009 12:29:36 PM

haah c'mon, it's thww


besides, I'm a boost whoring fool. wanna fight about it?

6/16/2009 12:45:43 PM

Quote :

"just be one of the obama conformists and you wouldn't have to worry about stuff like this...idk about you but i dont like worrying about stuff like this"

Weak sauce.

6/16/2009 1:46:43 PM

Quote :

"is it being released as a scion? i take it we're not getting the diesel version "

I do believe it will be branded as a Scion here.

6/17/2009 9:59:43 AM

there will be a lot more diesels on the road now

6/21/2009 10:13:01 AM

Put more diesels on the road so the gas companies can charge even more for the fuel. I remember a year or two ago when diesel was like $1.50 more than premium.

6/26/2009 12:19:15 PM

^If you haven't noticed diesel fuel's held steady around $2.30/gal for over a year. And look, OMG, its now 30 cents or so cheaper than regular (and 50-60 cents cheaper than the premium I need). It's how the market, not evil companies going out of their way to screw you over.

Of course, if there is a large demand in the near future for diesel fuel in the US prices will spike. Besides your basic supply/demand issues there is the problem of very few refineries in the US producing diesel fuel.

If lots of people turn to diesel as their solution to get around the CAFE requirements it'll have a bad effect on the environment (worse than gasoline automobiles) thanks to the NOx emissions that are inevitable.

[Edited on June 26, 2009 at 12:26 PM. Reason : k]

6/26/2009 12:26:08 PM

the efficeicy makes up for it

6/28/2009 8:39:05 PM