It has already drawn comparisons to the garbage disposal ban debacle.

Quote :

"RALEIGH - For years City Councilman Thomas Crowder has heard complaints from his southwest Raleigh constituents about a practice that is practical to some and trashy to others: parking in the front yard. Now Crowder has gone on the offensive against anyone who habitually puts tires to lawn. He has written a new ordinance that, if adopted, would require thousands of Raleigh residents to get their cars out of the front yard and possibly spend hundreds of dollars to pave parking areas. "If it's not a problem it shouldn't be imposing on anybody," Crowder said. "It's an environmental issue. It's a stormwater and water quality issue. ... [I]t's a quality of life issue." Although City Council isn't likely to vote on the ordinance until September, a public hearing this week made clear that Crowder has touched a nerve. Among the opponents is Councilman Philip Isley, who says this is the latest and most egregious attempt by the city to tell residents what they can and can't do on their own property. "This is beyond the nanny state," Isley said. "This is a homeowners association on steroids." The city has no current rule against parking in your front yard. The only requirement is that single-family homes devote no more than 40 percent of the front yard area to driveway and parking. "There was no way to enforce that," Crowder said, "because when you have no defined area people would just park all over the yard." His proposal would keep the 40 percent limit but would cap allowable parking space, not including the driveway, at 330 square feet. That's enough room for two parking spaces. Front yard driveways and parking areas in new single-family homes would have to be constructed of surfaces that won't erode, such as concrete or asphalt, or of gravel or crushed stone with clearly defined edges. Existing paved parking areas would be exempt from the new rules. But owners of all other parking areas, including gravel and crushed stone, would be given one year to comply or find alternative parking, such as on the street. "We can't even calculate how many homes would not be in compliance and that will have to pay anywhere from a couple of hundred to a thousand dollars to be brought into compliance," Planning Director Mitchell Silver said. Crowder says his ordinance wouldn't force people to spend money -- it would just force some people to park somewhere else besides their front yard. Yards lined with cars The rules would be a major inconvenience for people like David Morton, who has eight vehicles in his front yard in southwest Raleigh. His family parks four cars perpendicular to his driveway in a way that would be illegal under Crowder's ordinance. Morton, who has four drivers living in his house, said he bought his property 42 years ago because it offered ample parking space. "It's been fine for 42 years and now they're telling me it's not?" said Morton, 72. On the other side are homeowners such as Todd Pfrommer, 34, who lives on Faircloth Street in West Raleigh. His house is next to rental houses where N.C. State students line the front yards with cars, a situation that has him considering whether it's worth it to stay in the neighborhood. "I'd rather not see this happen to anyone else," Pfrommer told the council at the public hearing this week. The neighborhoods around N.C. State have been some of the strongest advocates for reining in lawn parking. The University Park Homeowners Association supports Crowder's ordinance and has even asked that it be expanded to apply to backyards as well. Alvis Denning, who owns a student rental house on Brooks Avenue near the university, said he views the ordinance as an attempt to rid the neighborhood of students. "It's a backdoor way of getting the students out is what it is," said Denning, 75. "They want the benefits of the college without the realities." Echoes of disposal ban Several City Council members are already expressing reservations about adopting a citywide ordinance for an issue that may not be a problem in many parts of the city. "We don't want to kill a fly with a giant sledgehammer," Councilor Nancy McFarlane said. Others see parallels between Crowder's ordinance and the council's botched attempt to outlaw garbage disposals last year. The council banned food grinders with little discussion, then repealed the ordinance six weeks later after residents expressed outrage at the city's intrusion into their sink. "One of the things I learned from the garbage disposal thing is you don't tell people what to do with their personal property," Councilor Mary-Ann Baldwin said. "They'll resent it." "

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1620872.html

Quote :

"David Morton has eight cars in his front yard, and four drivers living at his house on Kaplan Drive in Raleigh. He says he bought the place 42 years ago because it had plenty of parking space. But some homeowners are offended by front-yard parking. - STAFF PHOTO BY SHAWN ROCCO"

7/25/2009 8:44:40 AM

Quote :

""It's a backdoor way of getting the students out is what it is," said Denning, 75. "They want the benefits of the college without the realities." "

Truth.

7/25/2009 9:32:10 AM

^^ Badass diamond logo hat.

7/25/2009 10:30:03 AM

have they learned nothing from brent road? when you force out students they are not going to be replaced with nice happy families who keep their grass mowed and house painted.

also, a lot of student areas have no parking everywhere. where are they supposed to park their cars?

7/25/2009 10:39:17 AM

I always assumed this is part of the character of older neighborhoods. There is not HOA, therefore you do not control everything about your neighbors property, you do however control yours.

7/25/2009 11:17:39 AM

I can see RPD rolling around the NCSU area on Friday nights now, handing out NPOs and NYPOs (Nuisance yard parking Ordinance)




The reason this wont be repealed like the garbage disposal ban is that it directly targets southwest Raleigh, we are just students and poor folks (for the most part). Not really a valuable constituency

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 11:23 AM. Reason : repeal]

7/25/2009 11:21:08 AM

Stupid on so many levels. The boyfriend and I have 3 cars between us and we couldn't even park them all on our own property if this shit passes. Definitely planning on buying a house outside the city limits for this and other reasons. It really makes no sense to drive the diesel truck around most of the time, then we both have a car (not to mention the motorcycles and trailer).

7/25/2009 11:32:36 AM

Quote :

""If it's not a problem it shouldn't be imposing on anybody," Crowder said. "It's an environmental issue. It's a stormwater and water quality issue. ... [I]t's a quality of life issue.""

and paving over tons of space to make new parking spots will be great for the environment.

7/25/2009 11:37:23 AM

My old roommate just got a 19' boat and has to park it next to the garage. It won't fit in it. Mr. Crowder, what's he supposed to to? Sell back the boat? Build another garage? But that would mean >40% or 330sq ft devoted to "parking."

He's a working guy, so I hope he and other people like him -- hell, our old neighbors with the sweet old restored Mustang on the side -- come together to say a big FUCK YOU to Crowder. Fucking stupid Raleigh.

7/25/2009 11:53:31 AM

Quote :

"""If it's not a problem it shouldn't be imposing on anybody," Crowder said. "It's an environmental issue. It's a stormwater and water quality issue. ... [I]t's a quality of life issue."""

Quote :

"and paving over tons of space to make new parking spots will be great for the environment."

Exactly right. Paving yards would be more detrimental to water quality and increase stormwater flow than having cars parked in yards.

7/25/2009 12:29:26 PM

Quote :

"^^ Badass diamond logo hat"

Esp. considering he's kept it mint for what's gotta be like ten years now.

7/25/2009 12:32:18 PM

parking on your yard is trashy. good riddance.

7/25/2009 12:59:20 PM

^ Obviously did not read the thread. Hope you enjoy being limited to 2 vehicles per household.

7/25/2009 1:02:51 PM

Quote :

"parking on your yard is trashy. good riddance."

1. Maybe they think it's trashy for you not to be white son. It sounds equally reasonable for them to go try to get an ordinance passed to remove "trash" like yourself from their neighborhood.

2. Shut up about how people arrange things on THEIR MOTHERFUCKING PROPERTY. Just like you can put some non-white people in your yard, they can put some cars in theirs.

3. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound son? Humans are hilarious to me, absolutely hilarious. This life has very little to zero point son, so chill the fuck out about where exactly your motherfucking neighbor puts their car on their motherfucking property. It simply doesn't matter, at all.

7/25/2009 1:34:30 PM

^^ It would allow as many cars as you want per household. It would also allow as many cars that can fit in your driveway. In addition to that, it would allow you to create a space that takes up 40% of the yard or 330 square ft (capped). Which is estimated by the writer of the article to be enough for two parking spaces. And you can always park on the street where legal.


do a lot of students really do this that much? I'm a little puzzled by the notion that this is an attack on students.

Personally, I think cars parked in the front yard on day to day basis are an eyesore. That being said, I was at somebody's house a couple weeks ago who had 20+ cars in his backyard. That wouldn't bother me at all, as it wasn't visible from the front and didn't seem to be visible from the neighbor's backyards either. Just my opinion. I don't know that there needs to be a law about it or anything like that. I just wouldn't buy a house next to someone that had a bunch of cars parked in their front yard.

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 1:55 PM. Reason : .]

7/25/2009 1:40:20 PM

there are a ton of 3,4,5 bedroom student housing, usually with each resident having their own car. now maybe you are new to the area, but a lot of the heavily populated roads in sw raleigh have restricted parking. when i lived on brent road one of our cars was parked in the grass because our driveway was really short. there was almost no on street parking allowed where we were, what were we supposed to do?

7/25/2009 2:14:57 PM

Quote :

"1. Maybe they think it's trashy for you not to be white son. It sounds equally reasonable for them to go try to get an ordinance passed to remove "trash" like yourself from their neighborhood. 2. Shut up about how people arrange things on THEIR MOTHERFUCKING PROPERTY. Just like you can put some non-white people in your yard, they can put some cars in theirs. 3. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound son? Humans are hilarious to me, absolutely hilarious. This life has very little to zero point son, so chill the fuck out about where exactly your motherfucking neighbor puts their car on their motherfucking property. It simply doesn't matter, at all."

umm what? Lol

Quote :

"lewoods All American 1785 Posts user info edit post ^ Obviously did not read the thread. Hope you enjoy being limited to 2 vehicles per household. 7/25/2009 1:02:51 PM "

I can fit 1 car in my garage and 1 car in my driveway. Any overflow and I can park in a thing called a parking space or on the side of the road.

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 2:21 PM. Reason : .]

7/25/2009 2:19:20 PM

^^ I've lived in Raleigh since 2001. In that time, I've lived in Gorman Crossings, off of Kaplan, and now in N. Raleigh. There were 2 of us at gorman crossings, though some of those places are 3-4 bedrooms. There were 4 of us off of kaplan. For the past yr i've lived in N. Raleigh. There are 5 of us here. 4 cars can fit in the driveway with rear-ends hanging out onto the st. (though not past cars parked on either side of the driveway). We don't usually do that because it blocks us in and we have very different schedules. So we usually have 2 in the driveway, sometimes 3. Then everyone else parks on the street while they're here. While living in those places, if there wasn't parking close to my house, i parked as close as i could and walked. Parking on the lawn was never a consideration. Though I know people with gravel in areas of the yard for parking, and that's a lot different.

I've also known people who lived on brent rd., off of trailwood, pretty much all around campus. none of them parked in their yards except for specific occasions (parties, unpacking heavy/a lot of stuff, etc.). I know there are some places where I see people parking in the yard, I just dont' know how necessary it is for them. And I'm not saying it's not, but in my experience... it's not.

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 2:29 PM. Reason : .]

7/25/2009 2:28:04 PM

I see a lot of lawsuits against landlords over this...

7/25/2009 3:17:14 PM

Quote :

"One of the things I learned from the garbage disposal thing is you don't tell people what to do with their personal property," Councilor Mary-Ann Baldwin said. "They'll resent it"

No shit.



Durrrrrrr.

7/25/2009 10:06:18 PM

thomas.crowder@ci.raleigh.nc.us

It looks like Mr. Crowder lives just off Kaplan.

7/26/2009 6:51:41 AM

Quote :

"I can fit 1 car in my garage and 1 car in my driveway. Any overflow and I can park in a thing called a parking space or on the side of the road."

Ordinance will only allow you 2 parking spots. What happens when you buy a trailer, boat, motorcycle, or project car?

Personally I HATE people parking in the street a lot more than in their yard.

7/26/2009 8:40:19 AM

If you don't like cars parked in your neighbors front yard you need an HOA, not a city ordinance.

7/26/2009 8:42:40 AM

I have probably veto'd 40+ houses in my house search due to poor or PITA parking. I guess I never once considered parking in the lawn. Parking in the back yard had crossed my mind a couple times......

7/26/2009 8:44:54 AM

man it's weird to me to see SaabTurbo at odds with RSXTypeS

i guess i just figured dudes who name themselves after cars automatically get along

7/26/2009 10:50:21 AM

Quote :

"Ordinance will only allow you 2 parking spots."

Why do you keep saying this? The posted article does not say that. Are you getting it from somewhere else?

What it says is; in addition to however many vehicles you can park in your driveway, you can create a space in your yard that is 40% of the yard, but 330sqft max. That space is said to allow for 2 parking spaces. If you can fit 6 cars in your drive way, that means you can have 8 cars on your property. And how ever many you want parked on the street (where legal).

RSXTypeS would have no problems if he bought a boat, trailer, motorcycle, or project car. He could park it in his yard if he wanted. Because this ordinance would have nothing to do with what he has in his driveway nor garage. He could have two project cars in his yard if he wanted.

7/26/2009 11:19:39 AM

So you like playing musical cars on a regular basis.

If this thing passed and I owned a house I'd put out a couple dozen flamingos to piss off the neighbors instead.

7/26/2009 11:29:33 AM

good call, instead of saying "oh, yeah I guess I misread that. NM the BS I was saying about only being able to have 2 vehicles" you're going to play it off like it actually had something to do with the hassle of moving cars around. Not that the latter is an invalid point, but that's not what you were talking about.

But yeah, if there is an ordinance (which for the record, I don't necessarily support) then you have to play musical cars if necessary. What do you have going on that you'd really have to swap their position that often? Do you have a driveway? Would you buy a house w/o a driveway? Because again, if you have a driveway... that does not count toward the 330sqft. Free-standing houses w/o a driveway are the minority around here from what I've seen.

7/26/2009 11:52:27 AM

i read it correctly, but not all houses have long driveways

7/26/2009 12:04:42 PM

What if you don't have a garage? What if your driveway is short and you DO have 2 parents and 3 teenage drivers? And a boat? Maybe a motorcycle? It's just a ridiculous ordinance with too many variables to take into account.

Duplexes don't often have garages, yet they may have 3 bedrooms. That's at least 3 cars, unless you have bf's/gf's living together, so upwards of 6 cars. And there ARE some neighborhoods with HOA's that DON'T allow parking on the street. So what then? Crowder is just being an uptight prick OFF KAPLAN.

7/26/2009 12:13:44 PM

This is beyond retarded.

My family will pitch a fit if this gets passed. They bought their house on a half acre of land specifically so my sister and I would have a place to park our cars on the front lawn

7/26/2009 12:20:52 PM

Why is it the City of Raleigh's business where you park your car as long as the car a) runs and b) is properly registered and inspected?

Quote :

"If you don't like cars parked in your neighbors front yard you need an HOA, not a city ordinance."

I got a letter from my HOA asking me not to park my old car that I rarely drive in the front yard. (I live in Fuquay btw) The alternative is me parking my car in the street like the rest of the douchebags in the neighborhood, which is against HOA covenants, but never enforced. And I won't play musical cars everyday either. Fuck the HOA-the car stays where it is

Is this considered an eyesore? :

7/26/2009 1:20:49 PM

clearly that 3rd car is destroying everyone's property value.

7/26/2009 1:36:12 PM

so, how about that garage...

7/26/2009 1:37:06 PM

Quote :

"good call, instead of saying "oh, yeah I guess I misread that. NM the BS I was saying about only being able to have 2 vehicles" you're going to play it off like it actually had something to do with the hassle of moving cars around. Not that the latter is an invalid point, but that's not what you were talking about."

See the short driveway pic above. Please explain to me how you'd deal with 4 motorcycles, 2 cars, 1 extended cab long bed truck and a 7x16 trailer in that situation, and that's if we don't get a roommate. Guess we'll just pave the whole damn back yard because of some new nanny state ordinance.

In addition, some people keep projects in their garage. Try to find a reasonably priced starter home (minimum 2br 1ba 900sqft) with a 3+ car garage and you will experience much frustration.

7/26/2009 1:58:22 PM

if you sold a couple of vehicles, you could prolly afford a bigger down payment

7/26/2009 2:35:33 PM

Quote :

"If you don't like cars parked in your neighbors front yard you need an HOA, not a city ordinance."

7/26/2009 2:54:07 PM

Paid less for all the vehicles than a new Kia costs. I'd sell my car because I only drive it a couple times a month, but the boyfriend wants to put the engine in a project car once he finds one. '94 with a freshly rebuilt tranny and 115k on it isn't worth much, but the engine is in great shape. Boyfriend might sell his BMW, but even that won't add too much cash for a house (96 M3 sedan, 180k on it).

We're gonna be the neighbors you hate with the paved backyard, huge garage, and mean looking dog that retire at 45 because we don't piss away our income on a cookie cutter home or new cars.

7/26/2009 2:59:15 PM

well and you'll save money because you are a loveless, barren woman who hates children

7/26/2009 3:22:53 PM

Quote :

"Not that the latter is an invalid point, but that's not what you were talking about. "

Well, it's pretty much understood that it practically limits you because nobody is going to play musical cars. That's fucking retarded. It wouldn't even be an option for me--I'd sell my house and move outside of Raleigh city limits (if I lived in Raleigh and this got passed).

7/26/2009 3:38:54 PM

Quote :

"I got a letter from my HOA asking me not to park my old car that I rarely drive in the front yard. (I live in Fuquay btw) The alternative is me parking my car in the street like the rest of the douchebags in the neighborhood, which is against HOA covenants, but never enforced. And I won't play musical cars everyday either."

Just park the 3rd car in your garage along with one of the other cars. Then have one car that you do drive frequently outside parked behind the infrequently used 3rd garage car. Then there's no issue with playing "musical cars".

There's a solution to the problem, stop crying about it. That or sell the 3rd car.

[Edited on July 26, 2009 at 3:51 PM. Reason : -]

7/26/2009 3:49:52 PM

Kids are expensive cock blockers that I have no use for, but that is beside the point of this thread until they are 16 and need another car in your driveway.

I am definitely not loveless. Probably get more of the lovin' than you.

7/26/2009 3:52:16 PM

^^ what if the car(s) you drive most are the nicest ones that you want to keep garaged? It would be stupid to keep, say, the old pickup that you tow your boat with in the garage, with your Porsche sitting in the driveway simply because you drive the Porsche every day. Not to mention the issue of where are you going to put your boat?


Let's look at me, for example, and hypothetically, let's say I was married (I have a roommate, but just for the sake of making me Joe Average Homeowner, we'll assume a wife). Also hypothetically, let's say I wasn't going to deploy again in the spring, so I would've actually bought the stuff I want (I'm holding off until I rotate out of the squadron into a non-deploying job for a little while).

I have a sports car and a pickup truck, as well as a motorcycle and a jet ski. I'm going to buy a boat and a Jeep/Land Cruiser/early Bronco, and maybe a 2nd motorcycle. Let's assume that my hypothetical wife just has a car.

That's a total of 4 cars/trucks, a boat, a jet ski, and 2 motorcycles. We'll assume a 2-car garage. The jet ski and 2 motorcycles will go on one side of the garage, along with the lawn tractor (can't really park them outside--don't want to chance them being stolen). That leaves room for 1 of the 4 cars in the garage. Now we still have 3 cars and a boat to park outside--i.e., double what this ordinance would allot space for.



(even if you don't want to play hypothetical stuff, in reality, I have a sports car, a 3/4 ton pickup, a classic pickup, a tandem-axle trailer, a jet ski, and a motorcycle right now, and my roommate has a car, a boat, and wants to buy a motorcycle, so it's pretty much the same thing). I don't park stuff on the lawn, but I did have a parking pad paved. I'm pretty sure it's more than 330 sq ft.

^^ Fuck selling a car. I'd sell the house and move to somewhere without an overabundance of busybodies with nothing better to do than fuck with people.

[Edited on July 26, 2009 at 4:31 PM. Reason : ]

7/26/2009 4:30:25 PM

im a perfect example

I have my truck, and then there is my CJ5 jeep
my roomates all three have cars
one of my roomates has a boat

I think this is stupid...this guy is a dick. I want to go to his house and see what shit I can point out that i dislike and ask him about it at the next meeting.

7/26/2009 4:41:40 PM

Quote :

" for the sake of making me Joe Average Homeowner [...] That's a total of 4 cars/trucks, a boat, a jet ski, and 2 motorcycles."

does not compute

7/26/2009 4:52:53 PM

Honestly, people have no one to blame up themselves. They let HOAs and busybodies takeover. Now its hard to avoid either without living in the fucking boondocks.


For a "free" country, the actual citizens sure love telling other people how to run their shit.

7/26/2009 5:26:29 PM

You chose to buy a home in a cookie cutter neighborhood with an HOA. You were not tricked. Why do you complain?

7/26/2009 6:06:42 PM

Quote :

"Ordinance will only allow you 2 parking spots. What happens when you buy a trailer, boat, motorcycle, or project car? Personally I HATE people parking in the street a lot more than in their yard. "

easy...I move into a bigger house that can accommodate all that or a bigger lot. OR I rent a storage unit where I can leave my project car/trailer since its not something I would use everyday and it would give me some shop space to work in.

If I want a used car lot in my front yard I would move out to the country and get myself a nice cosy little trailer to live in.

and If i'm assigned two spots that would mean a total of 4 spots for me...I have a single car garage + single car driveway to add to those 2 spots.

Quote :

"RSXTypeS would have no problems if he bought a boat, trailer, motorcycle, or project car. He could park it in his yard if he wanted. Because this ordinance would have nothing to do with what he has in his driveway nor garage. He could have two project cars in his yard if he wanted."

huh?

[Edited on July 26, 2009 at 6:38 PM. Reason : .]

7/26/2009 6:35:23 PM

I'd rather spend that $100 on other stuff instead of a storage unit where I have to park stuff that should be allowed on my own property. But that's just me and if I buy a house without a HOA I don't want the city to later step in and start acting like the HOA I made sure to avoid. Seeing the petty HOA BS and people getting all in each other's shit for fear it might make their home worth a little less has made me avoid them.

7/26/2009 6:43:24 PM

I'd prefer a house without a car in the lawn.

7/26/2009 6:52:07 PM