not astroturf

not anti-govt

calling these vast, collective amount of people 'idiots' would be to degrade and denounce any protest movement youve supported previously

points were made, issues were accentuated, the collective majority gathered and were of all races and denominations; democracy prevailed.

thank you glenn beck, thank you grass ROOTS movements, thank you PROTESTERS

9/12/2009 9:43:24 PM

+1

My family and coworkers were there. Wish I could have gone.

I liked that there was very little trash left on the mall after the protest, which is a stark contrast from several other gatherings that have taken place there.

Good time lapse of people filing in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoPud1TeubM&feature=player_embedded

[Edited on September 12, 2009 at 10:08 PM. Reason : ]

9/12/2009 9:48:07 PM

Amen

9/12/2009 9:48:22 PM

this is complete B.S.

the non-violent protests in this country are reserved for liberals ONLY

what are these conservatives thinking?

9/12/2009 9:49:11 PM

DEMOCRACY PREVAILS.

9/12/2009 11:28:28 PM

Nazi symbols. Comparisons to Hitler.
I saw a lot of these guys on their way to and from their protest.

I'm sure that the vast majority were quite rational about the whole thing, but I did see signs of that nature, it bothered me during Bush's administration and it bothers me now.

(btw, about a 1/3d of ones I ran across didn't know how to use a crosswalk, but that's not really important)

9/12/2009 11:31:59 PM

lol @ grassroots.

Go to any of their pages and note the big fucking "SPONSORS" section that lists about 50 PACs.

9/12/2009 11:49:41 PM

I was there, and in no way did I have any idea it would be that big.

Getting off the Metro at Federal Square, all the employees were yelling at the thousands of people lining the station "Don't swipe your card on the way out! Just go!" They were overwhelmed to say the least.

The only problem is that the vast majority of my fellow protesters were/are complete hypocrites. There was a bunch of lip-service about how the Republicans are just as bad (or close) on spending as the Dems. And the crowd hollered and cheered.

But 99% of them will vote for Republicans next time around. And then they'll sit quietly at home while a Republican administration takes just as much of their liberty and money.

9/13/2009 12:20:51 AM

I'm a Democrat, and I fully support the rights of these people to take to the streets and protest. I think this sort of participation is a great show of democracy in action, with these people taking their first amendment rights to free speech and peaceably assemble.

The only thing that really bothers me in all of this is what the inflammatory rhetoric might do to people over time. Recent history (we'll say the last 15 years or so) teaches us that some people use these events, and ideas being espoused there, as stepping stones to acts of violence. When people get riled up, and they're in a mob, there's always a chance (be it small or large) that something regrettable might happen.

Terrible things have occurred in the name of political extremism, including things like the federal building bombing in Oklahoma City. I don't know if today's events count as extremism, but the heated rhetoric these days makes it hard to tell when people are just mad, and when they're mad enough to do something about it.

Sometimes I really wish that people would take a deep breath, and calm down a bit. There's too much talk of "the way things ought to be," and not enough rational discussion of "what we can do to help." Helping doesn't mean agreeing with a political point of view, but the brinkmanship harms everyone.

9/13/2009 12:34:28 AM

The funny part of all this is, well, exactly what are these people protesting? Obama's been in office eight months, and if you ask anyone of his critics they'll tell he's yet to do anything substantial (except be black for all eight of those months). So I mean, imagine what these people do when he actually does something.

As I've said before, they have all the right to gather and protest, but I also have the right to call them idiots for it.

Also, this deserves posting in another thread:

9/13/2009 12:40:34 AM

Quote :

"not astroturf"

AHAHAHHAHA

Quote :

"not anti-govt"

ahahahahahahha

Quote :

"the collective majority gathered"

AHAHAHAHHAFEOIWAHWFE;OIHAW;OA;AAAHAHAHAHAH

[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 12:46 AM. Reason : .]

9/13/2009 12:45:52 AM

Quote :

"But 99% of them will vote for Republicans next time around. And then they'll sit quietly at home while a Republican administration takes just as much of their liberty and money."

...yup. And this is why, despite my political sympathies, I refuse to be caught dead at one of these rallies. All during the Bush years I wrote letters, talked to friends and family, and argued with others, and the result was always the same. "Deficits don't matter! Don't you know there's a war on!" I complained about the bailouts. "Too big to fail! Do you want to start another Depression?!"

Suddenly Obama's in power and we hear how the socialists now hold the reigns of power.

Sorry pal, that happened years ago. We're just witnessing it at full speed, now.

9/13/2009 12:46:41 AM

^Yep.

I avoided the Raleigh and other area tea parties like the plague, despite invites. I went to this one because a road trip (we camped out Friday around Richmond) sounded like a fun weekend. I was there more as an observer.

My friend, lovable, gullible sap that he is, was really excited at the turn-out and started out loving it....he supports either the Libertarian or Constitution party (pretty indifferent between the two), and thought this type of backlash might mean people were actually changing.

After the speeches, he turned to me, dejected, and said "They're all still Republicans, aren't they?" "Yep." And with that, we left. I tried to warn him, but he didn't believe me.

John McCain got a round of boo's that were way worse than Obama got at some points. And yet, given the same choice, they all would do it again.

9/13/2009 12:59:31 AM

Quote :

"After the speeches, he turned to me, dejected, and said "They're all still Republicans, aren't they?" "Yep." And with that, we left. I tried to warn him, but he didn't believe me. John McCain got a round of boo's that were way worse than Obama got at some points. And yet, given the same choice, they all would do it again."

Precisely.

9/13/2009 1:07:13 AM

Quote :

"not astroturf"

what? there were a lot of big money PAC's involved

9/13/2009 7:42:46 AM

^ As there were for the protests during the Bush administration. Sponsors != Astroturf

9/13/2009 8:37:26 AM

The G20 will meet in Pittsburgh on Sept 23-25th

There is no doubt in my mind that thousands will show up to protest

I fully expect for some of the protestors to turn "violent", scuffling with police and causing property damage.

You heard it here first that conservative 9/12 protests will be compared with "liberal" G20 protests in the media

Glenn Beck: Why can't these liberals protest peacefully like my 9/12ers?

9/13/2009 9:09:39 AM

The astroturf accusations are asinine. If this were a pure astroturf campaign every protester would have a nice, neat, pre-printed sign that was handed out at the gate. (Kind of like these: http://tinyurl.com/mr92qy ) There isn't enough control of the message for this to be an astroturf campaign.

The term astrotuf is meaningless anyway. Every successful political movement has allies with money and power the fact that these allies are for profit does not matter. It isn't like there were subliminal messages in these peoples monthly health care bills calling them to rally.

Quote :

"except be black for all eight of those months"

Really? Are you (and the pundits who repeat this crap) so narrow minded that the only explanation they can come up with is OMG racism? I think it speaks more towards the progressive fixation on race as a defining factor than it does to anything else that this is perpetually brought up.

Quote :

"The funny part of all this is, well, exactly what are these people protesting? Obama's been in office eight months, and if you ask anyone of his critics they'll tell he's yet to do anything substantial"

I was unaware why political movements have to wait for their opponents to do something before they protest.


This is a continuation of a political movement that started prior to the election. That being said, Chaos and TULIP are sadly right. There are a lot of people here who wouldn't have been if John McCain were the president and doing the exact same thing. And that has less to do with race than it does with that little D or little R at the end of a politicians name. My guess was that, when it is "their guy" they feel a bit less disenfranchised. As the movement grows though, it has gone from an intelligent if politically small core to a wider group of emotionally angry but intellectually weak arguments. This isn't unique to this group, but CNN is working to make sure we all see that by their selection of which protest signs to show.

Unless this movement can get a grip on a focused message it'll likely be a lot of energy lost into the wasteland of US politics.

9/13/2009 9:17:58 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mlf_rUVGRNw

Love the the people in this video - one lady in particular. "He's going after our kids to try to indoctrinate them into a national defense army... and we're not gonna let him do it."

I suppose she's trying to half-brain her way through the conspiracy theory that he's trying to create an "obama army" of brainwashed children, but what she actually ends up blurting out is that she's against the idea of an army.

From this sample, we hear conspiracy theories about population control and all sorts of other nonsense.

No, not everyone against Obama is stupid. Obviously. However, the majority of the people who are in on these protests are really, really, really stupid. Or just racist, or know they're just making up nonsense but know that it will help rally the conservative base and help their sponsors.



[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 9:37 AM. Reason : .]

9/13/2009 9:31:37 AM

Quote :

"Really? Are you (and the pundits who repeat this crap) so narrow minded that the only explanation they can come up with is OMG racism? I think it speaks more towards the progressive fixation on race as a defining factor than it does to anything else that this is perpetually brought up."

Dude, they are SMEARING HORSE SHIT ON PHOTOS OF THE PRESIDENT AND TAKING PICTURES OF IT. If you don't think racism is part of their motivation to do these things, you are the most dumb naive mother fucker on this board.

This isn't a "political movement", it's the same fucking breed of degenerates that Bush and co. cultivated for 8 years to win elections and stay in power. They don't actually believe half the shit they are screaming. They know there is no way Obama is going to turn the US into Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

Their only motivation for being out there is that they believe Obama is stealing their money to give Jose and Tyrone health care. That's it. They didn't give a damn when their tax dollars were being used to bomb brown people, but the moment someone suggests their money be used to save the lives of a bunch of niggers, spics, and "illegals", they lose their shit. And I'm sorry, but you can't disassociate yourselves from these people either, their votes are the only reason Republicans hold any power in this country today. This is your party, and your mess.

9/13/2009 9:40:16 AM

Quote :

"and if you ask anyone of his critics they'll tell he's yet to do anything substantial"

Stimulus anyone? Usurping the rights of bond holders? Protectionist tire tariffs? It is valid to protest legislation that is under consideration, such as card check, healthcare regulation, and cap&trade.

Even if it were true that Obama has not yet managed to do anything, it would not be for lack of trying.

^ And I don't see the connection to racism in that act. Did lynch mobs often dump shit upon their targets in the jim-crow south or something? Although I don't doubt the people in that picture are racists, every one of them does look white, but did they know their act would look racist?

[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 9:46 AM. Reason : .,.]

9/13/2009 9:40:52 AM

Quote :

"Dude, they are SMEARING HORSE SHIT ON PHOTOS OF THE PRESIDENT AND TAKING PICTURES OF IT. If you don't think racism is part of their motivation to do these things, you are the most dumb naive mother fucker on this board."

I agree that a lot of these people are idiots, and I have no doubt that some are racially motivated.

However, smearing shit on a photo of the President does not automatically equal racism. What's the motivating factor when political figures are burned or hung in effigy?

Save the race card for something more serious than yokels smearing shit on a picture.

9/13/2009 9:50:36 AM

^^ lol, I bet the DC rally had the highest concentration of t-shirts tucked into jean shorts of any event ever.


And these protests kinda make me *yawn* when I think back to the numbers generated by the antiwar protests.

9/13/2009 9:53:13 AM

Quote :

"Dude, they are SMEARING HORSE SHIT ON PHOTOS OF THE PRESIDENT AND TAKING PICTURES OF IT. If you don't think racism is part of their motivation to do these things, you are the most dumb naive mother fucker on this board. "

If protesters doing crazy shit == racism, then the left has had a monopoly on racism for the last 8 years. Or we could acknowledge that protests are generally worthless and that protesters do stupid shit and stop pretending that your crazies are better than the GOP's crazies.

9/13/2009 10:13:25 AM

Certainly there has been some severe stupidity from the left, however, their anger really fomented after the war started, which I think at this point almost everyone can understand. The significant majority of the people at these rallies believe the president is not an american, that he is instituting death panels, etc.

The majority of what the left's protesters were angry about has been, for the most part, *proven* to be true. I Think that's a significant difference that must be acknowledged. If it turns out that the insanity most of these people have been spouting is true, then great, vindication.



Yes, you are all joe wilson. That appears to be the case.
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/obama-heckler-joe-wilson-member-neo

Quote :

" Joe also has been a member of the Columbia World Affairs Council, Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Sinclair Lodge 154, Jamil Temple, Woodmen of the World, Sons of Confederate Veterans, .... This is an organization that, as the SPLC has detailed assiduously, has been taken over in the past decade by radical neo-Confederates who favor secession and defend slavery as a benign institution. Leading the takeover is a radical racist named Kirk Lyons, who's been an important legal figure on the far right for some years."

Quote :

"Now, add this to the fact that Joe Wilson, as a state legislator, was one of only seven Republicans to go against their own party and vote to keep the Dixie Rebel flag flying over the South Carolina capitol: The flag came down that year after Republicans in both houses went for a compromise that would put it on Statehouse grounds at the Confederate Soldier’s monument. The “Magnificent Seven” of Senators who voted to keep the flag up included current Congressman Joe Wilson (who I served with in the 218th Infantry Brigade of the National Guard.)"

[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 10:29 AM. Reason : .]

9/13/2009 10:21:48 AM

That qualifies even though she fucked up the sign.

9/13/2009 10:23:36 AM

Nope, sorry, you can't play that card. Not even remotely comparable. Bush was in office for several years, started 2 wars (one based completely on lies), caused the deaths of tens of thousands of people, and did it all just to make his buddies rich. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Patriot act, torture, stolen election, and oh yeah, completely destroying nearly a decade of economic growth.

Are those protesters crazy people? Yeah sure, but they were driven to that by a US President doing legitimately fucked up shit for 8 years. Obama has been in office for 8 MONTHS and has done nothing except be (half) black.

[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 10:26 AM. Reason : :]

9/13/2009 10:24:23 AM

every pic in this thread is precisely why I avoid "political" commentary or discourse with 99% of people.

my fucking God I hate people.

9/13/2009 10:27:24 AM

^^ & ^^^^

I agree the validity of the complaints for the protests is significantly different. However, being an idiot, or hypocritical, or believing things that may not be true doesn't make someone a racist.

9/13/2009 10:34:42 AM

Seriously? This was motivated by racism?


Look at the couple on the far right? Or really anyone in this picture. Do they seem like crazy, racist protesters to you? Get your head out of the sand. People are angry, and it's not about his race.

Or the people on Pennsylvania Ave because the Mall is full?



Yeah, they're all just crazy protesters right?


[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 10:48 AM. Reason : ]

[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 10:50 AM. Reason : ]

9/13/2009 10:39:07 AM

what are you they protesting against?

honestly. tell me what they're protesting.

^well, shit, you found the one black guy. everyone is vindicated.

[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 10:51 AM. Reason : .]

9/13/2009 10:49:29 AM

Quote :

"We’ve had enough of the out of control spending, the bailouts, the growth of big government and the soaring deficits. And we reject the future tax increases to pay for all of this spending and debt down the road. We are gathering on 9-12-2009 to deliver our message in person that we’ve had enough!"

+ Government Corruption.

[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 10:53 AM. Reason : ]

9/13/2009 10:52:28 AM

they are protesting the reckless spending and nationalization of health care.

9/13/2009 10:52:41 AM

reckless spending? damn these protests would have been helpful during the last 8 years.

nationalization of healthcare? yeah, that's probably what they think they're protesting. too bad that's a complete fabrication and misrepresentation of healthcare reform.

anything else?

9/13/2009 10:54:46 AM

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/12/racism-912-beck/

How about Obama's communist attacks on "White America" ?

Quote :

" ATTENDEE: Barack was the name of the horse that Mohammed rode to heaven, alright a white horse. Q: What does the white baby represent? ATTENDEE: White America, because I do believe our President is a racist [...] But I think it’s mainly communism that he’s going to want to tell us what to wear, what to do, have his little red book like Mao because he really is a communist. "

As for it being "not astroturf," not only is it astroturf, but it's funded partly by extremist and racist groups:
http://pr.thinkprogress.org/2009/09/pr20090911/index.html

Quote :

"The official sponsorship list of the rally reveals a subterranean, extreme element of the American right in attendance. One of the top sponsors is the extremist organization Grassfire.org, which runs ResistNet.com for "Patriotic citizens who are opposing the Obama-led socialist agenda." Members of the ResistNet -- who promote anti-semitic Nazi propaganda, claim Obama is a Muslim, and praise the assassination of doctors -- are organized on Grassfire against health care reform ("Government-Run Socialized Health Care"), clean energy reform ("Cap-and-Trade Tax"), and immigration reform ("Amnesty for illegals"). Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) -- who is sponsoring and speaking at the 9/12 rally -- has praised Grassfire.org for its "great service to the American people." The National Association for Rural Landowners, a bronze sponsor, references the incidents at Waco and Ruby Ridge to call for attacks on "government entities" and liberals. In a YouTube video posted in July, the group makes the case for a secession, followed by a violent civil war. Similarly, another 9/12 cosponsor, FreeRepublic, is a forum for various radical right causes. As ThinkProgress reported, the shooter at the Holocaust museum found a welcome audience for his writings on the website. Despite the inclusion of such anti-government extremists, Rep. Tom Price (R-GA), Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN), Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-TN), and Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-GA) all plan to attend and speak"

9/13/2009 10:57:10 AM

So, let me get this right. You're saying that just because they haven't protested reckless spending, big government, and corruption in the past, they aren't allowed to protest now?

^You go right on reading your liberal blogs, thinking this is extremist and racist.

[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 11:01 AM. Reason : ]

9/13/2009 10:57:38 AM

The spending in the past six months has made the spending in the previous 8 years look like pepsi cola money. it is nationalization. Obama himself is on tape saying he wants a single payer system but it will take a while to get it. this is just means to an end. I realize though that the Kool Aid man is still dancing in a lot of people's dreams singing "yes we can"

9/13/2009 10:59:20 AM

No. what i'm saying is their given reasons for protesting are pretty disingenuous, and dislike of the president himself is more than likely their motivation.

which by the way is fine, too. anyone can protest anything for any half-brained retarded reason they want. just be honest.


[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 11:02 AM. Reason : .]

9/13/2009 11:01:20 AM

How are the given reasons disingenuous? You do realize we're protesting Congress just as much as we are Obama?

[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 11:04 AM. Reason : ]

9/13/2009 11:04:28 AM

how? are you kidding.

look at the signs in this pic.



nazis
jesus
acorn
freedom
chicago

[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 11:10 AM. Reason : ,]

9/13/2009 11:08:55 AM

And your point is? That out of the large number of people there, people protested more than just big government and corruption? (although all of those can be lumped into corruption really).

[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 11:12 AM. Reason : ]

9/13/2009 11:11:20 AM

^ No, nobody is saying that. If they had STARTED 8 years ago, maybe this shit wouldn't have got to the point where the economy went to shit and the government having to intervene and create these large deficits and debt.

I'd only take the ones that were also protesting during the last administration seriously because they are probably consistent with their beliefs. The rest of them are just bitter that a half black president that doesn't represent their party is in office.

9/13/2009 11:12:53 AM

I REALLY hope the freedom for security guy has been walking around with that sign since at least 9/12/01.

9/13/2009 11:16:16 AM

^^That's absolutely ridiculous! Shall we stretch that back even further? Are you only going to take people seriously who protested the war during Bush's administration AND Somalia during Clinton's AND the Persian Gulf War during Bush Sr.? Or you can only take people seriously who protested the STEADY increase in deficit spending for the last several administrations?

I mean, really, just because people are angry enough now to go to Washington doesn't mean they weren't angry in the past.

[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 11:17 AM. Reason : ]

9/13/2009 11:17:32 AM

i also wonder how the woman front and center pulls the lever every election cycle.

9/13/2009 11:18:10 AM

Charlie Brown = these protestors

Lucy = Republicans

Football = fiscal conservatism

9/13/2009 11:20:43 AM

Gzusfrk, because I have nothing to lose, I'm going to go ahead and say that yes, you are pretty ignorant to the facts here. I'm not going to call you "stupid," because you very well may not be, but you certainly have no clue what you're saying.

AS for think progress being a liberal blog, that's obviously true, but you can check out the sites of the groups they mentioned and see that what they say is true.

http://www.resistnet.com/forum/topics/is-china-americas-enemy

Quote :

"Americans must first realize we're under an "END TIMES' blackout as far as the 'great deceiver' is concerned. MICRO-CHIPPING is freely discussed in many other countries and pretty much accepted by the general population. Of course, the corrupt news media here in America has been blocked from broadcasting such controversial topics for fear of the citizenry rioting in the streets. If one reads the "Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion' (FOUND ON THE WEB OR MY WEBSITE) He or she will quickly discover all the corrupt things happening in America were PRE-DESIGNED by mega-wealthy occult families. We know throughout the Bible, when the people turned away from God, He then used their enemies to over throw them. China owns most of the U.S. debt! Therefore! At any moment China could call in our loan and America would then fall under the rule of Communism. America is no longer. 'land of the free and home of the brave.' A real paradox exists in China! At last count there were over hundred million CHRISTIANS and counting. Throughout the world thousands of CHRISTIANS are martyred each year and the mainstream American media never broadcasts a word of it. Why would our media keep certain information from us? Americans hold millions of guns in their possession. They're still a people of freedom and truth. Mega-wealthy occult families know this and keep the truth hidden from us."

http://www.resistnet.com/photo/photo/show?id=2600775%3APhoto%3A1401322

Note that the image is actually called "obamaantichrist3984.jpg"

http://www.resistnet.com/profiles/blogs/tiller-the-baby-killer-is-dead

The National Association for Rural Landowners: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5Ewwmikc9Q


[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 11:26 AM. Reason : .]

9/13/2009 11:22:35 AM

^^^ I'd like to know if she's pro-choice or pro-life.

[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 11:23 AM. Reason : ]

9/13/2009 11:23:04 AM

Quote :

"As for it being "not astroturf," not only is it astroturf, but it's funded partly by extremist and racist groups:"

And so were a lot of the anti-war / anti-bush protests. Face it, protests are and always have been full of crazy people. The only really difference is this time they aren't on your side, so you don't like it.

I also think a large point that's being missed is that all of this anger at the government didn't start with Obama, but he has made it worse. A lot of people were absolutely pissed when Bush and Congress started the bail out process. Obama has made the unfortunate mistake of not only continuing those bail outs, but expanding them AND trying to ram further spending through congress. Whatever good and necessary discussion might occur on the issues of healthcare reform and the economy are being drowned by the screeching on the right, and the absolute dismissal of any concerns and alternatives on the left and a complete unwillingness of the left to acknowledge that there are significant concerns about what is and has been happening.

It isn't large enough to be heard yet (unless you're really paying attention and not being distracted by idiots with signs) but I do honestly think a growing number of people from both sides are growing extremely discontent with the direction things are heading. For 8 years, Bush ignored the left, and pressed on with what he believed was right, and damn the opposition. That's made a lot of people angry. Obama rode to office on promises of change, and then has continued to act in the same manner as Bush, secrecy, lack of transparency and pushing ahead, the opposition be damned. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but combine with the general discontent with the government over the last year or so and Obama is burning through his support at a very fast rate.

It would be dangerous and foolish to constantly and continuously ignore any opposition as manufactured fear mongering. While a large chunk of it may be, a large amount is legitimate, and ignoring those concerns is a good way to harm your position. Even further, if a large amount is manufactured fear, the Obama administration has no one to blame but themselves, both for turning over the process to the crazy that is Pelosi and her ilk and for not providing a solid, consistent and clear message, plan and vision. Even Obama's supporters are starting to feel dismissed and ignored, and that's not a good thing to do when you need every bit of political capital you have to get your agenda accomplished:http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2009/09/09/healthcare/

[Edited on September 13, 2009 at 11:37 AM. Reason : sdf]

9/13/2009 11:23:54 AM

actually, i love it. shit's hilarious. the more ignorance far right wingers spew in public, the better for the progress of this nation.

9/13/2009 11:26:01 AM