I don't even know what impact he's had on contemporary music. I mean, directly he's produced contemporary songs? I can think of rappers who were clearly influenced by Tupac, for example. Not sure what all Kanye has done in that same sense.

9/16/2014 8:47:21 PM

If you don't like Graduation... something's wrong with you.

Great blending of non-traditional hip-hop/rap melodies with rap vocals.

9/16/2014 9:05:36 PM

His first three albums are great. I'd be fine if I never heard 808s again, though. MBDTF was solid...a few outstanding tracks, a few tracks I'll auto-skip every time though. Watch The Throne (if we wanna count that one in here) was pretty good. Definitely different, but I enjoyed it...particularly from a production standpoint. Yeezus grew on me...I still don't love it, but it was ok.

Basically, I'd rank Kanye's from best to worst in the order in which they came out....and then move 808s to the bottom of the list.

[Edited on September 16, 2014 at 9:16 PM. Reason : i can't spell]

9/16/2014 9:15:36 PM

Quote :

" I'd rank Kanye's from best to worst in the order in which they came out"

That's true with the majority of albums and movies

9/16/2014 9:24:12 PM

The only song of his I "know" is Heartless which I really enjoyed.

Off the cuff, can you list your top 10 songs of his?

9/16/2014 11:07:43 PM

I actually didn't remember "Heartless"

but I did remember "Flashing Lights," "Through the Wire," "Stronger," and "Gold Digger"

9/16/2014 11:13:01 PM

Quote :

"I can think of rappers who were clearly influenced by Tupac, for example. Not sure what all Kanye has done in that same sense."

Of course there are more rappers that are clearly influenced by Tupac than Kanye in the year 2014; Tupac's LAST record is 18 years old, while Kanye's FIRST is only ten.

9/16/2014 11:26:23 PM

wait I thought 2Pac put out a bunch of albums after he died

9/16/2014 11:32:01 PM

^^But I thought Kanye was already a huge influence on music? Who is he influencing? I'm sure there are some 12 year old artists that nobody has heard of yet, but how is he such an influence? Why is he supposedly so influential and game-changing?

Is he the first hiphop producer you and thegoodlife have heard of that's done things outside the box?

[Edited on September 16, 2014 at 11:39 PM. Reason : .]

9/16/2014 11:38:57 PM

he's certainly the first producer turned rapper to put out 6 consecutive great albums, none of which sound like the others

unless you're aware of anybody else who has accomplished that

this really isn't that difficult. it's fine if he's not for you, but to pretend he isn't much is absurd

9/17/2014 12:27:04 AM

Quote :

"Maybe it was the absurdly nonfunctional shutter shades or the audacious (and, let’s be real, honest) Taylor Swift interruption, but at some point in pop culture, Kanye West became a punch line. When he sat down with The New York Times’ Jon Caramanica for a rare, rather lengthy interview, the responses were predictable. Various media roundups* characterized his quotes as “ridiculous,” “textbook-crazy,” “obnoxious,” and, well, you get the point.** All of this makes me wonder if anyone actually read the interview, because he talks about (and complicates) the very thing that others so boringly mock him for: his vanity. I’m not here to convince you to love Kanye’s music or to love him as a figure. What I am interested in talking about, and what I think is often overlooked, is how race affects the way people perceive and respond to his vanity. Kanye is a part of a long tradition of black artists for whom self-love is a political act. The concept of vanity is so rooted in the idea of a singular narcissist that it can be hard to catch that Kanye speaks almost from a populist perspective — a populist narcissism, if you will. Granted, the thematic focus on community vs. the personal has evolved from College Dropout to Yeezus, but take a second and remember the very first song on Kanye’s first album. He has a chorus of children singing, “We wasn’t supposed to make it past 25 / Joke’s on you, we still alive / Throw your hands up in the sky / And say we don’t care what people say.” If you chalk up his “we don’t care what people say” attitude to simply his ego, then you have missed the point entirely. This isn’t about ego; this is about boldly asserting yourself in a world that is not meant for you. This is a vanity that is rooted in bringing the community up with you. To the ire of some who are so wrapped up in the anxiety of respectability, the message he gives the kids (in front of all these white folks who are listening to his music!) is not to be modest but to unapologetically laugh in the face of a world that does not care about them. The joke’s on you, white America. We made it, and we don’t even have the decency to be grateful. We’re laughing. We dare to laugh. This is why it’s so critical to really think about how and why folks are calling him “crazy.” There’s a great Dave Chappelle quote from his Inside the Actors Studio interview that really gets to the heart of this. In a conversation about the difficulties of black celebrity life, Chappelle explains, “The worst thing to call somebody is ‘crazy.’ It’s dismissive. ‘I don’t understand this person. So they’re crazy.’ That’s bullshit.” To continuously label what Kanye says as “crazy” is to dismiss him as not worth understanding and to flatten his deeply complex work and complex personality. Kanye told Rolling Stone in 2004, “I’m the rap version of Dave Chappelle. I’m not sayin’ I’m nearly as talented as Chappelle when it comes to political and social commentary, but like him, I’m laughing to keep from crying.” “Laughing to keep from crying” is a tone that captures so much of both of their work, but it’s also a survival mantra. Originating with Langston Hughes, this expression encapsulates a history of black artists who have used wit and satire to capture their exasperations and make light of the world’s absurdities. The humor shouldn’t be overlooked here; people seem to miss that Kanye is very tongue-in-cheek, that he is constantly making jokes. As Vulture’s Jody Rosen puts it, “Anyone who gets riled up about ‘I Am a God,’ or about the album’s title, is missing the joke — or rather, taking the bait. More than ever, West is aiming to provoke.” Yes, and also, sometimes he’s just making fun of you. The jokes are fun, but the difficulty and power of his vanity cannot be emphasized enough. To assert that, despite the boundaries of a racist world that strangles your very view of what is possible, you are still going to be out here stuntin’ on everyone, that you will love yourself and love yourself excessively, is powerful beyond measure. And as many black artists have said before, for black folks to love themselves is a political act. The poet Audre Lorde captures it best: “Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation, and that is an act of political warfare.” Kanye’s “vanity” is meant to be inspiring; it is not a mindless arrogance but it is pointed and intentional. One of the most compelling things he says in his Times interview is that he views his work, in some ways, as an extension of the fight for justice of the activists and artists who came before him. In their traditions but also in his own way, he is fighting for justice: “I’m going to use my platform to tell people that they’re not being fair… Justice. And when you say justice, it doesn’t have to be war. Justice could just be clearing a path for people to dream properly.” Kanye’s infatuation with the sartorial world is also important to consider in the light of the black artists who came before him. As Monica Miller points out in the fascinating Slaves to Fashion: Black Dandyism and the Styling of Black Diasporic Identity, there is a long history of black artists who use fashion, art, and a couture-level interest in looking beautiful and self-fashioning as a powerful tool of self-actualization. From as far back as the slaves who dressed in their Sunday best to the black dandies of the English Enlightenment, from the luminaries of the Harlem Renaissance to the greats of the Jazz Age and to contemporaries like Andre 3000, black artists have used art and fashion to re-imagine the possibilities of what it means to be black, of what is possible and imaginable for black identities. This play with dandyism is both about an individual’s self-image and about how they are regarded, it is personal and political, and it is within the community and about the dynamics outside it. Kanye is very aware of this history and this balance between the political and the beautiful has been characteristic of his discography. He tells the Times, “That’s how I was raised. I am in the lineage of Gil Scott-Heron, great activist-type artists. But I’m also in the lineage of a Miles Davis — you know, that liked nice things also.” Conversations that take Kanye’s vanity as a given annoyance obfuscate the fact that Kanye has helped change the game entirely for how black men are allowed to express their vulnerabilities in public. In the Times interview, he talks about how, in the public’s imagination, “the idea of Kanye and vanity are like, synonymous.” He goes on to explain, however: “But I’ve put myself in a lot of places where a vain person wouldn’t put themselves in. Like what’s vanity about wearing a kilt?” If you see him simply as a crazy egomaniac, you’ve taken away his right to be a dimensional human being. You miss the moments when he is so boldly asserting his vulnerabilities, his anxieties, his humanity — the times he is placing his bare self on the line as an artist. This bravado mixed with a deeply sincere self-reflectiveness has characterized his career from the very beginning. It began with the earnest confessions of his first single and grew to become to an entire album where he sings — despite openly acknowleging he’s a horrible singer — about heartbreak. It’s hard to imagine the sappy crooning of Drake or the angsty emo rap of Kid Cudi existing if it weren’t for Kanye. And, to return to the sartorial for a moment, notice how in that quote, he articulates his expression of vulnerability in terms of fashion choices, in terms of a leather kilt. He’s keenly aware of the way black identity, and black masculinity in particular, is wedded to an image, a static image, and he purposefully plays with that. All of this is obviously not to say that Kanye is immune from criticism or that I, myself, have never side-eyed things he has said or done. But ultimately, I am grateful for the space that his bold and unapologetically vain work has created for black artists, for black children, for dreamers. On a more fundamental level, this conversation begs the question, how much pride is allowed for one person? At what point does being proud of yourself turn into being “too vain”? Who decides? Kanye has just dropped Yeezus, an incredibly dense and complicated album that revels in a dark spiral of introspection mixed with the political articulations and sonic embellishing that is so characteristic of his canon. His work continues to refuse an easy reading, and this album boldly proclaims that he is someone you must pay attention to. You don’t have to love it, but you will respect it."

[Edited on September 17, 2014 at 1:42 AM. Reason : i bolded some highlights but just read all of it]

9/17/2014 1:34:52 AM

Quote :

"he's certainly the first producer turned rapper to put out 6 consecutive great albums, none of which sound like the others"

Does somebody like RZA, who did completely influence the genre, not count because he started rapping too early?

What's absurd is the worship this guy gets for making good beats and being a mediocre emcee. Or combining genres like he's the first producer to ever do so. Like he's the only hip hop artist to speak his mind and be arrogant. etc.

[Edited on September 17, 2014 at 2:35 AM. Reason : .]

9/17/2014 2:32:10 AM

Quote :

"Like he's the only hip hop artist to speak his mind and be arrogant. etc."

Bahaha. So for 4 pages of the thread he sucks and literally has death wished upon him for his apparent egotism and arrogance, until someone posts an article explaining how his arrogance is actually kind of rad, and then his arrogance becomes no longer noteworthy? I see.


[Edited on September 17, 2014 at 5:02 AM. Reason : .]

9/17/2014 4:57:57 AM

Quote :

"Is he the first hiphop producer you and thegoodlife have heard of that's done things outside the box?"

Why is being the first to do something the metric? No matter how often they may appear concurrently, greatness and innovation are not at all related. The Ramones innovated by playing faster than anyone before, but their greatness appeared in their songwriting, which is straight out of the Brill Building.

In the grand scheme, are Kanye's productions as innovative as the Bomb Squad's? No. Are they still great? Absolutely.

I will say that I have no opinion on Kanye as an emcee outside of how his vocals sit inside of his mixes and occasionally his melodic/rhythmic homages. Lyrics have always been the least important part of any song to me.

9/17/2014 5:47:24 AM

Lyrics use to be the most important component to rap. Then, Lil Wayne came along and ruined that.

9/17/2014 6:46:26 AM

Quote :

"Off the cuff, can you list your top 10 songs of his?"

Diamonds from Sierra Leone
Runaway
Stronger
Flashing Lights
Never Let Me Down
Can't Tell Me Nothing
POWER
Blame Game
Two Words
I Wonder

9/17/2014 8:15:08 AM

his arrogance is rad?

9/17/2014 10:03:30 AM

9/17/2014 10:21:10 AM

^^ when it's backed up with a large body of work, yes

9/17/2014 12:03:21 PM

very rad and funny that it makes ppl so angry

9/17/2014 12:09:36 PM

sorry, i think being humble is much radder. it's hard for me to comprehend how people think arrogance is rad.

9/17/2014 12:12:58 PM

you must really hate Muhammad Ali

9/17/2014 12:16:32 PM

I see your point, bu tI never said i hated anyone. I don't really have strong feeling about Kanye. I recognize his talent, don't particularly care for most of his music, think he's a douche from what little I know about him, and made a few comments about him on here because it seems that some itt really think he's the greatest (ala Ali), almost messiah-like.

[Edited on September 17, 2014 at 12:21 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2014 12:18:50 PM

"sure, you are recognized as being as one of the best in your field, and you have the respect of your peers/community, but goddammit, you'd better be quiet about it"

false modesty is far more obnoxious than somebody absolutely owning their greatness

9/17/2014 12:20:43 PM

absolutely own their greatness? lol

9/17/2014 12:23:07 PM

glad you thought it was funny

what is wrong about that statement?

9/17/2014 12:26:10 PM

it just sounds a little too obsession-y or worship-y to me.

but i respect that you think he's really good at what he does.

9/17/2014 12:27:51 PM

Dear Bullet,

Please explain why being humble is better than being arrogant, assuming the subject is excellent at whatever he/she is being humble/arrogant about.

Thanks,

vinylbandit

9/17/2014 12:28:54 PM

Quote :

"Off the cuff, can you list your top 10 songs of his?"

Hell...I dunno. Let's give it a go. In no particular order

Two Words, We Major, Never Let Me Down, Spaceship, Power, We Don't Care, All Falls Downs, Flashing Lights, Jesus Walks, Heard Em Say.

Just for kicks, by album that's: 6 from College Dropout, 2 Late Registration, 1 Graduation, 1 MBDTF

I think...that's close enough anyways. If I sat down and made a list and really thought about it, it may be a little different though. Some of those songs he released on GOOD Friday or whatever leading up to the release of MBDTF would be near the top of my list too...probably not top 10 but definitely up there. Most of those were never on an album or anything (don't think Gawker included those in their list either)

9/17/2014 12:32:40 PM

Why did you address me in letter format?

It's my opinion. Self-confidence is one thing, arrogance is another.
You seem to think that being arrogant is a positive personality trait, i think it's a character flaw, despite someone being "excellent" about something.

But i honestly don't hate or care enough about Kanye to continue.

9/17/2014 12:33:22 PM

Quote :

"it just sounds a little too obsession-y or worship-y to me. "

so every music critic and/or fan who has purchased his music or a ticket to see him live is obsessed and/or worships him?

is that really where you're going?

9/17/2014 12:34:10 PM

what? i didn't go there at all. i said that about your phrase "absolutely owning their greatness". not about people who listen and like his music.

9/17/2014 12:38:19 PM

really not seeing the fault you're seeing in that phrase

he's great. he knows he's great. he owns it.

9/17/2014 12:42:38 PM

It just sounded weird to me, no offense.
You think he's great and you think it's cool that he's arrogant about it, and that's cool.
I recognize his talent but don't particularly care for most of his music and think he acts like a douche.

9/17/2014 12:47:23 PM

Quote :

"Why did you address me in letter format?"

Why not?

Quote :

"You seem to think that being arrogant is a positive personality trait"

I don't think it's necessarily a positive trait, but it's not intrinsically worse than being humble. Choosing to be humble is a personal matter, but I don't think the act of humility is worthy of praise.

9/17/2014 12:55:14 PM

poor bullet

hes just now encountering TWW personality known as thegoodlife3 in all his glory

we wish him well

9/17/2014 1:40:02 PM

My list, in no particular order:

Power
Two Words
Spaceship
Roses
We Don't Care
Homecoming
All of the Lights
Flashing Lights
Blame Game
Slow Jamz

9/17/2014 2:53:11 PM

There are plenty of celebrities that draw just as much ire as Kanye for being arrogant. Look at Gwyneth Paltrow. People send her death threats over her arrogance.

9/17/2014 3:21:02 PM

what's your point? are you responding to something in particular?

[Edited on September 17, 2014 at 3:31 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2014 3:31:41 PM

^^Gwyneth Paltrow is not even CLOSE to Kanye's level of arrogance. I'm not sure how you even make that statement.

I don't doubt that she gets death threats, etc, but as far as her public persona and public statements goes, no way bro.

9/17/2014 4:27:13 PM

Sometime between 2009 and 2010, vinylbandit went from saying kanye is garbage, to basically saying he's a musical genius

I wonder what happened

9/17/2014 4:36:15 PM

i personally dont like his alliance with thegoodlife3

one of them needs to betray the other; vote him off the island

9/17/2014 4:39:04 PM

I was just making a point to the folks talking about how much shit Kanye gets for his arrogance, like they're doing it because he's black or something.

Generally, people just don't like arrogance.

9/17/2014 7:23:49 PM

^^^

9/17/2014 7:36:51 PM

at first he was just a douche, and even then it was only occasionally

now he does it just for the attention, annoying people, selling more records, etc

its his shtick now, and there are plenty of people ITT that helped create it

9/17/2014 7:43:18 PM

KANYE LEARNED THAT CONTROVERSY CREATES CASH FROM POSTERS ON AN NCSU ALUMNI MESSAGE BOARD

9/17/2014 7:49:00 PM

haha, eric bischoff

/thread

vinylbandit wins

[Edited on September 17, 2014 at 8:28 PM. Reason : -]

9/17/2014 8:27:44 PM

9/18/2014 12:26:05 AM

oh he a douchebag

9/18/2014 9:06:06 AM

humility is mostly bullshit anyways. for most people, being "humble" is as much an ego boost as being "arrogant".

9/21/2014 3:24:40 PM