I rent a room out in my house to a roommate. He'd always paid me on time without any trouble, so when I went to Arizona for a couple of months, I let him just leave the rent checks on my dresser instead. Well, when I came home and cashed the first one, it bounced. I told him about it, and he said he's talking to his bank to try to work something out--he said the 2nd one would clear, no problem, as he just got paid.

Well, tonight, I see on my bank's website that the 2nd one bounced, too...so he's now like 3 months behind on rent. If he doesn't get this fixed (or pay half/most of it) in the next few days, I want to kick him out.

I didn't put him on a lease or anything--it's just a "You pay me the first of this month, and I let you stay at my house for the rest of the month provided you don't piss me off too much."

What do I need to know about kicking him out?

12/7/2009 11:38:48 PM

If he's not on the lease, it's as easy as dumping all his shit on the front lawn and changing your locks.

You'll probably want to go about it in a more civilized manner though

12/7/2009 11:43:53 PM

yea, i feel like if there isn't anything signed, and he's now three months behind - he's out.

and he couldn't honestly think he could keep living there without paying rent.

12/7/2009 11:45:43 PM

^^ that's what I thought...just wanted to make sure.

I guess by the same token, there's no provision for recovering any back rent, right? (i.e., can't dump all of his stuff outside except for the things of value that I'd already sold on Craigslist or eBay? )

12/7/2009 11:50:31 PM

I mean you could take him to small claims court, but if all you have is a verbal agreement it gets tricky to prove.

12/7/2009 11:52:45 PM

yeah, i doubt it's worth it...not to mention how tough it is to get money out of someone who apparently has none.

12/7/2009 11:56:47 PM

Exactly. My parents' brought a guy to small claims and as soon as the judge ruled against him he ran out and declared bankruptcy. It's just trying to squeeze blood from a turnip.

12/8/2009 12:02:27 AM

I guess one just has to bite the bullet in this case - and just know for next time to have something on paper.

12/8/2009 12:06:20 AM

You can't get blood from a turnip, but you can from a debtor.

12/8/2009 12:14:49 AM

hmm lesson learned, that sucks

you could always bargain with him and let him give you something valuable of his. give him like a week to get out. i mean depends on how well you know the guys. craigslist is out there.

12/8/2009 12:26:28 AM

I don't want a lease. I want to be able to kick the personout at any time I want for any reason that I want.

What's the legality regarding moving all of his stuff into a storage unit, and releasing it to him only after he pays up?

12/8/2009 12:30:07 AM

Quote :

"If he's not on the lease, it's as easy as dumping all his shit on the front lawn and changing your locks."

FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do this and you can be sued.

12/8/2009 12:31:38 AM

What's the statute saying you can't do this?

[Edited on December 8, 2009 at 12:34 AM. Reason : genuinely curious]

12/8/2009 12:34:00 AM

Ok, then how do I do it? It's my house--I don't see how he has much of a right to stay in it other than at my pleasure.

[Edited on December 8, 2009 at 12:36 AM. Reason : ]

12/8/2009 12:34:46 AM

^^^ is correct

hell even if he was a squatter he has rights after he establishes residency.

http://www.rentlaw.com/eviction/nceviction.htm
http://www.abanet.org/legalservices/lamp/cle/1105_Rowe_LandlordHandout.pdf

[Edited on December 8, 2009 at 12:38 AM. Reason : .]

12/8/2009 12:38:29 AM

Shit, it sounds like someone enjoys pretty much full tenant rights just by virtue of having stuff in your house, even if there is no lease.

Whatever, it won't go that far. I can be enough of a dick that he'll move voluntarily, if it comes down to it.

[Edited on December 8, 2009 at 12:58 AM. Reason : Electric guitars sound their best at 3-4 a.m.]

12/8/2009 12:53:29 AM

So is there any way to rent a room out without exposing yourself to all those fucking tenant-protection laws?

Fucking lawyers...yet again missing no opportunity to fuck up something that was fine without their interference.

12/8/2009 12:57:20 AM

I think the only way really is to make people sign a lease and have the lease looked over to make sure it's kosher.

12/8/2009 1:02:04 AM

Quote :

"Ok, then how do I do it? It's my house--I don't see how he has much of a right to stay in it other than at my pleasure."

Watch some cops episodes man, all someone has to do is establish "residency" at your house. They can do that by staying with your permission, and not having another residence. Technically if you let one of your buddies sleep on the couch for a week he would have established residency. They do not have to be on any paperwork or even get mail there, just have to be staying there.

Def don't throw his stuff in the yard because if you do you will lose that case hard if it went to court.

Threaten to file eviction proceedings against him. See if it gets him moving.

12/8/2009 1:03:37 AM

you definitely cannot just kick him out. I wish I could point to some sort of official document. What you have is an oral, month to month agreement. You have to give him a written eviction notice i believe. You should call a lawyer and make sure. Of course, you could always ask him to leave and see if he does.

I think even without an "oral agreement", a person is considered a tenant if they've been there more than 30 days or something and you have to give them x amount of time to leave the premise. My aunt and uncle tried to kick my uncle (who was staying with them for a while) out and they found it very surprising that they couldn't just kick him out. They had to give him a written eviction notice, even though there was no lease and he wasn't even paying rent.

I'm sure some lawyer will just answer this for you over the phone.

12/8/2009 1:12:35 AM

Quote :

"I can be enough of a dick that he'll move voluntarily, if it comes down to it"

That's the whole reason for having leases, protects both the tenant and the landlord in case something like this happens so one (theoretically) can't sue the other on some crap grounds.

Btw, you tried talking to him about why he is having money issues? Major medical incident occur lately? Job difficulties? Being behind sucks, but, why is that the case? And, if they do want to pay you something, get cash from them.

[Edited on December 8, 2009 at 6:40 AM. Reason : .]

12/8/2009 6:15:03 AM

Duke, PM Sent.

12/8/2009 7:35:39 AM

squatters rights aside...paying by check = a contract/agreement

12/8/2009 8:27:17 AM

send him a certified letter or get a document notarized that he owes you X amount of money (hopefully you can recover it) and that he has X days to get out

has he already agreed to move out? and yeah, what is he having money trouble?

12/8/2009 9:55:08 AM

Perlith makes a good point imo. I guess we don't really know the details, what the two of you have discussed, or exactly how long ago the first one bounced. But it seems he set a precedent for being a good tenant. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt?

He's 2-3 months back, but it's not quite like he hasn't attempted to pay in 3 months, right? When he was writing those checks and putting them on your desk or whatever, they may have been fine. You should have had him depositing them in an account for you. Obviously, I realize he spent money that should have been allotted to you, etc. But, maybe there is a legitimate reason to cut him a break and give him a chance to catch up?

If he can pay you some of it and the two of you can work out a payment plan... you're making some money versus no money. And like you said, the guy has always paid you on time without any trouble. So, it doesn't seem likely that he "just isn't paying you." He's probably having a tough time for some reason. You could really get to the bottom of the issue and maybe help him out, while still making a little cash. Unless you have someone ready to take his spot that is. But if not, and there are no other issues, I would try to help him make a plan to get back on track with you. What do you have to lose otherwise?

12/8/2009 10:00:29 AM

Don't do anything rash in this situation. Give him a chance to redeem himself and be very direct about your intentions if he fails. Let him know that if he cannot pay you back in a timely fashion, he will need to leave ASAP and leave it at that.

12/8/2009 10:29:39 AM

I apologize for the excessive words, but the responses in threads like these tend to gravitate more towards insinuation, innuendo, and anecdotes. I hope I hit all of the pertinent questions that have been asked so far..

Quote :

"I didn't put him on a lease or anything--it's just a "You pay me the first of this month, and I let you stay at my house for the rest of the month provided you don't piss me off too much.""

With no contract Duke, the termination of tenancy is easiest done on your end by written notification to your tenant. With no written contract to enforce, you can evict him more or less at will with written notification and a waiting period that is dependent on the length of tenancy you first agreed on (year to year, month to month, etc- if it was month to month I believe the requisite period is seven days). Be mindful that the verbal agreement you have can work both for and against you, since it would boil down to word against word if brought before a magistrate.

Quote :

"What do I need to know about kicking him out?"

In practical application, you give notice that the tenancy is over and allow them to move out, and typically this is as far as it goes. The tenant does have some temporary power to hold over in the residence and in some situations can file with the magistrate for a stay on the eviction notice (most tenants to not make it past this step). Ultimately the tenant will have to vacate because you have to write-to-record-to-enforce real estate rights to a property in North Carolina, and he can't require specific performance on your end if there is no written agreement between you.

Quote :

"it's as easy as dumping all his shit on the front lawn and changing your locks."

And

Quote :

"What's the legality regarding moving all of his stuff into a storage unit, and releasing it to him only after he pays up?"

NCGS 42-25.9 as well as other statutes governing personal property prevent this kind of action from being taken or otherwise having personal property removed from the tenant's established residence.

Quote :

"I guess by the same token, there's no provision for recovering any back rent, right?"

You can file suit for the unpaid rent, but that verbal agreement may not support you. You can attempt to attach fees to the late paying of rent as well (see message_topic.aspx?topic=578973), but again, with no specific written provisions agreed upon, that too is unlikely to be reclaimed.

Quote :

"So is there any way to rent a room out without exposing yourself to all those fucking tenant-protection laws?"

Nope, and certainly not without a written tenancy agreement. Specific language in the Act dictates that there are certain rights & responsibilities that cannot be conveyed or surrendered, even if they are contractually agreed upon by the landlord and tenant.

Quote :

"I can be enough of a dick that he'll move voluntarily, if it comes down to it."

With the way you have described your situation, specifically, this is probably going to be your most cost/time effective approach, short of harassing the tenant.


/words

12/8/2009 11:04:38 AM

Before listening to a bunch of bad advice...

Where do you live?

Regarding the bad checks... If you live in Wake County, then they have a bad checks division. They will handle practically everything for you. By writing a bad check, he has commited a crime. There is a step by step procedure you must follow, but the end result is that he'll have to go to court to write a check plus court fees, or if he does not, he will be arrested. I know, because I have used the system. The person that wrote me multiple bad checks was arrested when she ignored the courts notice, and I got my money back.

When you write a check, it is considered a contract. Even if you dont have a lease, he is admitting to you that he owes the money by writing that check. Had he not written you the bad check, you would have been in a much worse situation to recover. However, in a way, he did you a favor. You now have him by the preverbial ballsack.

If you dont live in Wake County, contact your District Attorney's office for the county the house resides in, and ask if they have a Bad Checks Division.
And regarding the tennancy...

Lots more bad advice. I can't tell you if this advice is completely accurate, but this was told to me a couple of years ago by a lawyer to me in a similar situation. If there is no signed lease, and a person is occupying your house, then it is assumed a 2 week tennancy (you must give them written two weeks notice to vacate). However, that doesnt mean you get to throw his shit out after 2 weeks. Everything must go through the court system. If you lock him out, dont be surprised if you get in a LOT of trouble. Ever seen Pacific Heights?

[Edited on December 8, 2009 at 11:16 AM. Reason : .]

12/8/2009 11:10:09 AM

I'm pretty sure changing the locks or anything like that is illegal in NC.

http://www.abanet.org/legalservices/lamp/cle/1105_Rowe_LandlordHandout.pdf
http://www.ncrec.state.nc.us/publications-bulletins/Renting.html
http://www.ncsu.edu/stud_affairs/legal_services/legaldocs/LandlordTenantHandout.htm

Quote :

"In North Carolina, must a lease agreement be in writing? No. An oral agreement can establish a landlord-tenant relationship if it is for a term of less than three years from the time the agreement is made and includes the * names of the landlord and tenant(s), * location of the property to be leased, * time period of the lease, and * amount of rent to be paid."

Quote :

"What must a landlord do to evict me? A landlord may evict you for violating a provision of your lease, but must do so according to lawful procedures. For example, unless your lease provides otherwise, when you do not pay your full rent, the landlord must first make a clear demand on you for payment of the past-due rent. Then, if you do not pay the rent within ten days (or if you have violated your lease in some other way), the landlord may file a formal "summary ejectment" complaint against you in court describing why you should be ejected. Many leases permit the landlord to shorten the ten day notice period or avoid it altogether by including a "forfeiture" clause. Such clauses provide that the lease terminates if you do not pay your rent within a specified number of days after it is due and may require no notice or less than ten days' notice before the landlord is permitted to begin the summary ejectment proceeding in court. At the court hearing, you can, of course, raise defenses. If the magistrate rules in favor of the landlord, you can appeal the decision within ten days. However, you must pay the appropriate rent to the clerk of court while the appeal is pending. If you do not appeal in time, or if the landlord wins the appeal, he can enlist the services of the county sheriff to execute the judgment and evict you. At all times throughout the process, the landlord must use peaceable means to regain his property. "Self-help eviction," such as changing the locks, removing your possessions, or padlocking your door, is not permitted."

Seriously, if you want to go through with this, just call a lawyer and find out for certain what needs to be done.

personally, if rent is the only issue and the guy has a legitimate reason for being a little tight right now, I say give the guy a chance to pay it back. But be reasonable in that he's most likely not going to be able to pay 3 months rent at once. He may be able to come up with a month and half or a 1.25, etc. That's just mho though.

12/8/2009 11:59:40 AM

I've 'evicted' two roommates before...but I would hardly call it eviction. They were friends that lived with me for about a year but I had too many complaints from the home owners association about them being too loud and cops coming on several occasions (although no one was ever home by the time the cops came around for noise). So I informed them of the situation and told them that they will need to move out and gave them 2 months to find a new place.

If you keep it civil its usually for the better...everyone goes through difficult times. If he's not 'broke' because he's bad with money or a drug/alcohol addict then i'd say give him a chance to explain his situation so there are no surprises and make your decision based off of that

12/8/2009 12:22:48 PM

thank god some smart people rescued TheDuke from retards in this thread

you people sure do talk out of your ass without knowing what youre talking about lol

12/8/2009 12:50:37 PM

^ I almost shat my pants reading this thread.

Many years ago, Duke spotted me both the funds to purchase one delicious Western Blvd Miami Subs philly cheesesteak and a ride home on the night I turned 21. Helping him out where I can is the least I can do

12/8/2009 1:18:12 PM

Quote :

"Btw, you tried talking to him about why he is having money issues? Major medical incident occur lately? Job difficulties? Being behind sucks, but, why is that the case? "

It's job difficulties--he's in sales, and his pay is partially commission-based...the last couple of months have been pretty slow for him. Of course, that's the nature of the sales-beast...I'm not interested in having rent checks bounce every time there's a slow month or two, because there will be slow months in the future...if your pay varies significantly on each paycheck, it's incumbent upon you to play for that.

In the end, I really don't care what the reasons are. It's binary...1s and 0s...bottom-line business--either I got paid or I didn't. It's not my job to manage his finances--it's my job to furnish a good house to live in and get paid to rent a room out. It's not about kicking a guy when he's down or being an asshole or anything, but business is business, dude.

Quote :

"When he was writing those checks and putting them on your desk or whatever, they may have been fine. You should have had him depositing them in an account for you."

Yeah, lesson learned. I assumed that a 30-year old, college-educated dude would be able to account for checks he had outstanding and not spend the money he needed to cover them, but I guess not. I won't give him or anyone else that latitude in the future.

Quote :

"If he can pay you some of it and the two of you can work out a payment plan... you're making some money versus no money. And like you said, the guy has always paid you on time without any trouble. So, it doesn't seem likely that he "just isn't paying you." He's probably having a tough time for some reason."

I was already doing that to allow him to buy an airline ticket home for Christmas (this is after I got back from AZ, but before the checks started bouncing).

Quote :

"Unless you have someone ready to take his spot that is. "

I don't, but I was getting bombarded with emails and phone calls within hours of posting that room for rent last time. I'm sure I could put another renter in there pretty much immediately, and maybe even at slightly higher rent.

Quote :

"Many years ago, Duke spotted me both the funds to purchase one delicious Western Blvd Miami Subs philly cheesesteak and a ride home on the night I turned 21. Helping him out where I can is the least I can do"

haha, man that's been a long time. Those were the days, at least in some ways.

12/8/2009 11:22:56 PM

Also, I doubt its entirely job difficulties. Most likely, he's bad with money.

Up until now, you've been there each month to cash the checks and get the money out of his account soon after he writes them. When you're not there to immediately take the money out, it means he's got seemingly extra cash just sitting around waiting to be spent on other shit. And it looks like he spent it.

Not that it matters, but I'm just saying.


Okay, I just read the thread. Basically what duro982 said. In the future, you should have people depositing the checks somewhere. It's totally lame but still necessary with a lot of renters. And it sucks...I mean, had those checks gotten cashed when he wrote them, he'd be fine right now. It's retarded how retarded he is.

[Edited on December 9, 2009 at 5:16 AM. Reason : ]

12/9/2009 5:04:48 AM

Yeah, if you can get someone else in there (actually paying), I'd probably give him the boot as well.

As long as you go through the necessary process, it shouldn't be too big of deal unless he's an ass about the situation. Or just ask him to move out first and see how that goes.

Good luck.

12/9/2009 10:41:25 AM

Quote :

"So is there any way to rent a room out without exposing yourself to all those fucking tenant-protection laws? Fucking lawyers...yet again missing no opportunity to fuck up something that was fine without their interference."

It goes both ways. Tenants get fucked by landlords all the time...the law is there for a reason. It's your fault for being lazy and not doing something really simple and drawing up/borrowing/downloading a basic lease agreement. Quit blaming it on lawyers because you've had a shitty experience with your child's custody. I would love for people to sit down and think for just a few seconds how fucking ridiculous our country would be without our legal system. You seem to be a smart guy, so have your tenant sign a lease. This is your fuck-up.

And what state is this house in?? Landlord/Tenant law varies from state to state on certain issues...but the basics are usually the same. In this case you've pretty much created a month-to-month tenancy, and you have to give him 30 days notice before you evict him. And go ahead and take him to small claims court. Even if he doesn't have the money now, there will be a judgment against him. I handle a lot of landlord/tenant stuff with friends, and I don't know how old your tenant is, but usually when faced with having a judgment against them, they'll finally cave in and beg for the money from their parents.

12/9/2009 2:57:28 PM

This is why I never want to be a landlord. Extra income sounds real easy until stuff starts to go wrong, and then it's a huge nightmare.

12/9/2009 3:06:44 PM

Even if you had a lease, you coudln't throw him out immediately. You have to give him an eviction notice, then he has X amount of days to gtfo. Then, you can throw his shit out. There are tenants rights that apply regardless of what a signed lease says. This protects tenants because many landlords try to put illegal clauses in leases, hoping that tenants wont challenge them on it.

[Edited on December 9, 2009 at 8:42 PM. Reason : ,]

12/9/2009 8:39:34 PM

I was in the same situation as you, and even if he isn't on the lease you can't just throw his shit out. If he is not on the lease, then it is considered that he is renting from you month to month. If I remember correctly, this means that you have to give him at least 30 days notice to vacate.

if he pays you weekly, then you have to give him at least a week's notice.

[Edited on December 9, 2009 at 8:42 PM. Reason : a]

12/9/2009 8:41:21 PM

Well, I came home from being on leave today, and found that my roommate had moved all of his stuff out. All of my stuff looks to be just as I left it (other than apparently he borrowed my trailer, according to the neighbors), except that he kinda banged up my stairwell when moving his furniture out.

...so that problem is solved. No more roommate.

However, I believe that he owes me $2100 in unpaid rent. I'll have to check when the last time he paid me was (with a check that actually cleared), but I'm pretty sure that's it. Either that... or $1500. What are my option in terms of recouping this (and damages to my stairwell)?

How do I do the small claims court thing? What about hiring a lawyer and suing him for it?

In addition to the two bad checks, I have a photograph of his proposed payment plan (in his handwriting), detailing his plan to repay how much he owed me.

12/20/2009 7:14:31 PM

Odds are you are never going to get a dime from him.

12/20/2009 7:22:17 PM

Quote :

"[/b] It's your fault for being lazy and not doing something really simple and drawing up/borrowing/downloading a basic lease agreement. [/b]Quit blaming it on lawyers because you've had a shitty experience with your child's custody. I would love for people to sit down and think for just a few seconds how fucking ridiculous our country would be without our legal system. You seem to be a smart guy, so have your tenant sign a lease. This is your fuck-up."

Get the fuck outta here. This is no way MY fuck-up. What in the hell kind of tortured logic is that?My responsibility was to maintain a good place of residence. His responsibility was to pay me to live in it. I held up my end of the deal--he did not. That's like saying that you deserve to have your house burglarized if you leave a door unlocked.

Furthermore, it was quite by design that I didn't have a written lease--not simply laziness. I didn't realize that a verbal agreement provided a roommate with all those tenant protection rights, and wanted to be able to say "Hey dude...time for you to leave my house. Bye."

12/20/2009 7:52:00 PM

http://www.legalaidnc.org/Public/Learn/publications/Small_Claims_Court/default.aspx

12/20/2009 11:30:25 PM

^^Well, you were kind of silly for thinking you could accept money from somebody for months and then just kick them out on their ass with no notice. In what world would that be fair or conducive to a stable society?

12/21/2009 10:19:01 AM

Quote :

"In addition to the two bad checks, I have a photograph of his proposed payment plan (in his handwriting), detailing his plan to repay how much he owed me."

I believe I already answered one of these questions above. If you have bad checks, you dont need to go to small claims court for whatever amounts are written on those checks.

12/21/2009 10:24:59 AM

If I were you I would just forget about the money he owes you. Just be thankful you got rid of him as easily as you did. Find another roommate, and this time make sure you draw up a lease for your protection.

12/21/2009 10:29:54 AM

yeah, at least he left. i ended up having to move one time because the roommate that wasnt working out didnt have the money to leave and we also did not have a real rental agreement.

12/21/2009 11:35:51 AM

Quote :

"I would love for people to sit down and think for just a few seconds how fucking ridiculous our country would be without our legal system. You seem to be a smart guy, so have your tenant sign a lease. This is your fuck-up.""

i also do not have leases with my tennants -- primarily because they have thus far been friends of mine, and we operate under the tennet of "treat this as if it were your own house".

12/21/2009 11:42:03 AM

Landlords who don't have their tenants sign leases have no room to complain when shit goes awry. It's ridiculously simply to find a generic lease, print it out, and have someone sign it.

^I'm probably handling 5 or 6 landlord/tenant situations for friends right now. Half of those deal with their friends who can't/won't pay rent. I still get my friends to sign leases.

And to the OP...small claims court should be pretty easy. Either drop by the Magistrate's Court and pick up a form to fill out and have them served with the complaint. You might even be able to find the papers online. You just have to make sure they get served. It might not be worth hiring a lawyer. You should be able to find North Carolina landlord/tenant law online. Find the statutes that reference unpaid rent and you should be fine.

12/21/2009 12:38:57 PM

Quote :

"Threaten to file eviction proceedings against him. See if it gets him moving."

you can get him out

[Edited on December 21, 2009 at 1:02 PM. Reason : s]

12/21/2009 1:00:27 PM