Just saying "liberal" or "conservative" is a dumb, simplistic way of viewing things. Another user wanted to determine where the majority opinion lies in TSB. I propose doing this not through some flawed quiz or asking you to label yourself (I've known people who claim to be libertarian who supported the smoking ban), but rather by doing this in a manner that not only indicates political preference, but gauges our outlook on the Obama presidency.

Today I am conducting the first TSB Straw Poll. This is like the Iowa Straw Poll that is conducted during the buildup to the GOP Primary. Here are the candidates for president in 2012 who have received any sort of buzz whatsoever. One of them will be who everyone here (assuming you vote) will put their confidence in for 2012. Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2012#Potential_candidates

No proposing other candidates, but if you want to say "leaning towards ______" or "any member of Party X". That's fine, too. It gives us an idea.

And don't cop out with the whole "well I support NONE!" thing, because that either means you're copping out (choose whoever comes closest) or you don't vote (and you're an idiot).

The purpose here is to gauge everyone's inklings about the direction the country should take and to discern politics based on that.

I'll track the results periodically.

Go Team Wolf Web!

12/15/2009 6:29:55 PM

Luis Guillermo Fortuño Burset -- Only because it'd be cool as shit to have a President from a territory, it'd keep the island-born streak alive, break the streak of black males who have won the Presidency, and because I happen to enjoy Puerto Rican food.



(Sorry, I can't take a straw poll seriously 3 years out)

12/15/2009 6:44:36 PM

Oh come on. Just pick who best matches your values. I know you're not waiting to see how Obama does to then make your choice.

12/15/2009 6:54:35 PM

there's only one dem. that's fairly limiting, don't you think?

12/15/2009 7:12:40 PM

This isn't based on who your favorite Democrat is. It's based on who you'd back for president right now.

Unless you know of a secret list of Democrats prepared to challenge Obama for the nomination.

This isn't meant to reveal your innermost desires or anything, people. It's an informal straw poll.

12/15/2009 7:22:36 PM

I'm sorry, you're right. Seriously? Kent Mesplay. We've had a good track record with California born Presidents and a background as an Air Quality inspector is vital to leading whats left of the US empire.

12/15/2009 7:39:21 PM

thanks for helping out. based on your previous posts i'm going with "Libertarian".

12/15/2009 7:41:15 PM

Yeah, but I'm only a proto-small-"l"-libertarian, which leaves my vote wide open.

12/15/2009 7:44:40 PM

well i know you aren't voting Obama

12/15/2009 7:45:45 PM

it would seem this would only make sense for choosing between people who would actually be in a primary is all i'm saying.

12/15/2009 7:49:01 PM

Ok fine, name which Dem you'd want. It better be a legit one.

12/15/2009 11:25:12 PM

only because you said

Quote :

"And don't cop out with the whole "well I support NONE!" thing, because that either means you're copping out (choose whoever comes closest) or you don't vote (and you're an idiot)."

Luis Fortuño seems the least awful


but i prolly won't be voting at all.

12/15/2009 11:37:41 PM

Wayne Allyn Root seems more palatable and less crazy than most Libertarians. I could potentially vote for him, although his proposed tax policy and some of his foreign policy are questionable.

Maybe, maybe, I could get on board with Newt. I'd have to look more into his ethics problems. He's never really struck me as a particularly ethical guy, even by politician standards (and not just due to the charges levied against him when he was speaker).


I'd like to vote GOP. I really would. They're gonna have to give me someone I can vote for, though (I almost did last time--I voted for McCain in the primary, but not in the general).

12/15/2009 11:48:30 PM

^so would you vote for my guy

12/15/2009 11:49:21 PM

There doesn't seem to be much policy information on him, at least in the Wiki article. It does give some indication of fiscal conservatism and making moves towards reducing government, so...maybe.

I'll ask my Puerto Rican friend about him when I get off leave and return to work.

12/15/2009 11:54:47 PM

^^^ I'm not sure how comfortable I am with a professional sports handicapper/sports line pusher as president. Maybe that shouldn't be a major consideration, but to this point my only exposure to him has been his extremely annoying commercials during the Jim Rome show. Until I learn more about the guy it would feel like voting for Vince Offer.

I'll give the guy a open mind though.

(Although his website design is complete garbage: http://www.winningedge.com/)

[Edited on December 16, 2009 at 12:51 AM. Reason : .]

12/16/2009 12:49:24 AM

screw wayne allen root, i'll write in Jimmy "The Greek" Snyder

12/17/2009 4:13:56 PM

If Jesse Ventura runs, he's got my vote.

12/17/2009 11:06:43 PM

Jesse Ventura has turned into a complete loon.

12/17/2009 11:34:53 PM

^ he probably was when he was elected too.

minnesota elects some interesting folks

12/18/2009 12:07:07 AM

if he was, he was more closeted about it. he's waaaay the hell out there in tin-foil hat land, now.

12/18/2009 12:19:41 AM

I could probably get behind Giuliani, if only for the sake of the party. He's less social-issue crazy than many of the others, he's got some credentials left after his determined efforts to destroy them in recent years, and he seemed to do alright by New York City.

Though Fortuno is also pretty cool, also in large part for the sake of the party. He's young, and he has some potential to capture Hispanic voters -- who, unlike with African-Americans, the Republican party has some hope at courting in the near future. On top of that, he doesn't seem to support anything particularly objectionable for me, and I would like to go ahead and bring in Puerto Rico as a state...so yeah, I could live with that.

Sarah Palin, Mike Huckabee, and Mitt Romney would all make me want to jump off a fucking bridge.

12/18/2009 1:17:12 AM

I find Huckabee very likeable as an individual, and even don't totally despise listening to him as a political commentator (though I do disagree with him a lot).

I do not want him in any nationally elected office with his social conservatism, though, and it would be a disaster if he got the GOP nod for President.

Of course, maybe that would be good in the long run. Maybe he'd choose Palin as his VP, and they'd get utterly demolished. I've long thought that we have to destroy the GOP in order to save it, and I'm not convinced that it's been destroyed enough yet.




Maybe I could get behind Giuliani, depending on how he campaigned, who he chose as a running mate, etc. I'm still fairly bitter about the McCain I've always been a fan of totally selling out and morphing into what he did in '08. He was my #1 GOP man--I voted for him in the primary, then gave him the finger in the general, so I certainly wouldn't hesitate to do the same to Giuliani if he didn't really knock my socks off in the campaign.

[Edited on December 18, 2009 at 1:28 AM. Reason : ]

12/18/2009 1:24:36 AM

Quote :

"I'm still fairly bitter about the McCain I've always been a fan of totally selling out and morphing into what he did in '08."

I'm still bitter about this as well. I often think what the world could have been like if McCain won in 2000. And I weep openly.

I also agree about having to destroy the party in order to save it. Forcing the hardcore social conservatives out is the way to go. That doesn't even mean abandoning things like pro-life and even anti-gay marriage positions. It means not putting them front and center and going on crusades over them.

12/18/2009 1:32:02 AM

Yep...McCain winning in 2000 could've been game changing to an extent I'm not sure we can even fathom. Not quite like if Goldwater had won in '64, but it definitely could've drastically changed American (and therefore world) politics in far-reaching ways for decades to come.


and the GOP is pretty thoroughly destroyed at this point. The problem is, there seems to still be only limited awareness as to why. People want to point to the "liberal media", or a smooth-talkin' black man, and worst of all, a lot of people still seem to think that the way to get the GOP back on track is to do more and more of all the things that reasonable observers like us know to have completely destroyed the party. I mean, the GOP is not suffering from not having enough Sarah Palin-types, but try telling that to the people uninsightful enough to like her to begin with.

[Edited on December 18, 2009 at 1:47 AM. Reason : and all of those motherfuckers' votes count the same as yours and mine]

[Edited on December 18, 2009 at 1:48 AM. Reason : well, more than mine, because I haven't even voted for President since 2000.]

12/18/2009 1:40:52 AM

^ along those lines, I was listening to a re-broadcast of a C-SPAN interview with Matt Welch (editor of the Libertarian-leaning Reason magazine) this morning and he was discussing, rather frankly, what he liked about the French health care system. It was a good breakdown of what he thought the benefits and pitfalls of the French system were compared to the US and made the excellent point that, when you disagree with someone, you should really contest their stronger points, not just their weaker ones.

The first caller on the GOP line? "This guy sounds like the worst kind of socialist, he needs to move to a socialist country"


Jesus.

12/18/2009 12:11:13 PM

gotta watch out for those socialist libertarians

12/18/2009 12:22:51 PM

I hate social-librarians.

12/18/2009 12:26:46 PM

Quote :

"or you don't vote (and you're an idiot)."

oh well!

12/18/2009 12:29:02 PM

RON F'ING PAUL.

Though, I'm afraid he's completely unelectable.

Quote :

"I'd like to vote GOP. I really would. They're gonna have to give me someone I can vote for, though"

Unless things change, dramatically, between now and 2012. I'm looking to 'throw my vote away' on someone I support, regardless of winability.

12/18/2009 12:47:11 PM

Quote :

"or you don't vote (and you're an idiot)."

It may be the subject of another thread, but I didnt vote in the last election (hated everyone on the ballot) and I dont think I am an idiot. I know that your vote is one of the few ways that "your voice is heard" in government, but lets face it: If a million people vote in your state, and assuming all the votes are counted, your voice counts as approximately 1/1,000,000; which rounds to zero. A better way is to cast your vote by donating to the campaign of who you want to win and hope they are smart enough to run a convincing campaign.




BUt

to answer the OP, I think I am going to lean libertarian at this point and vote Ron Paul or Wayne Allyn Root

12/18/2009 12:47:19 PM

I make Rush Limbaugh look like George Soros.

12/18/2009 12:54:49 PM

Reading Jesse Ventura's Wikipedia page was like a downard spiral.. I saw

Quote :

"Ventura vetoed a bill to require recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools, saying: I believe patriotism comes from the heart. Patriotism is voluntary. It is a feeling of loyalty and allegiance that is the result of knowledge and belief. A patriot shows their patriotism through their actions, by their choice. No law will make a citizen a patriot.[25]"

And thought maybe I would vote for someone like this...and then

Quote :

"Prostitution Ventura has publicly stated that prostitution should be legal, since it will exist in any case, and legal controls protecting the health of clients and workers are needed.[32] He said "I voted in hopes to make prostitution legal once, and I'd do it again in a second."[33]"

Still going strong...but then:

Quote :

"On December 2, 2009, Ventura appeared on the Opie and Anthony show, where he expressed doubt about the U.S. government's account of the September 11 attacks. The conversation with Jim Norton grew heated and Ventura walked out of the show.[44][45] How could this building just implode into its own footprint five hours later? That's my first question. [...] The 9/11 Commission didn't even devote one page to that in their big volume of investigation."

Oh.......*backs away slowly*

12/18/2009 1:07:14 PM

Quote :

"Though, I'm afraid he's completely unelectable."

Paul goes from ridicule to respect

Quote :

"No one would have been surprised if the Lake Jackson congressman had slipped off the political radar after his 2008 quixotic bid for the presidency, his ambitions for higher office thwarted. But Paul has refused to go out to the political pasture to live in comfortable irrelevance. As odd as it may seem, he has become one of the most influential Republicans in a capital city dominated by liberal Democrats."

Quote :

"In Texas, analysts see Paul's renaissance as a reflection of the changing political landscape of America. “Ron Paul's got a hell of a lot more political support now than just fringe nuts,” Murray said. “It's gone mainstream now.” But it's not that Paul has gone mainstream. Rather, the mainstream has gone Paul-ite, with popular anger at Wall Street and the Federal Reserve crystallizing into support for policies Paul has long advocated."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6774366.html

Now, could he be elected? It'd still be a tough battle. Getting the Republican nomination is hard enough on it's own. Would he have a lot more support now than he did in 2008? Absolutely. How much support do you think he might have in 2012, at a time when the economy will probably be much, much worse?

[Edited on December 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM. Reason : ]

12/18/2009 1:27:35 PM

Quote :

"Now, could he be elected? It'd still be a tough battle. Getting the Republican nomination is hard enough on it's own. Would he have a lot more support now than he did in 2008? Absolutely. How much support do you think he might have in 2012, at a time when the economy will probably be much, much worse?"

I hope you're right. The pieces seem be headed towards fitting together in favor of a solid 2012 Paul run... Meanwhile the GOP regulars seem inexplicably still enamored with Palin.

I just don't get it.

12/18/2009 1:38:51 PM