to be kicked out of the USMC with an other than honorable discharge. turned in my statement today to the legal officer.

I just took over my department about 3 weeks ago, and this was one of the first things I got handed, followed shortly by potentially having to fire my shop chief (SSgt) and not take him on our upcoming deployment.

I've already gone to bat for a couple of my other guys, but I hate crushing people, even when they deserve it...especially when I personally like them.

2/4/2010 10:40:50 PM

damn dude, what'd he do or not do?

2/4/2010 10:42:20 PM

That sucks man. It really does.

2/4/2010 10:43:24 PM

How many people are you in charge of?

2/4/2010 10:45:15 PM

did you order the code red

2/4/2010 10:45:53 PM

^^^^Stole stuff...twice...then lied to me about it, numerous times.

Actually, the first thing was a laptop--a friend of his actually stole it, then gave it to him and said "it's your problem, now". He didn't return it (to the guy who lived across the hall from him), and actually loaned it out to another friend (which doesn't support his story that "he forgot about it").

We all thought it was a fluke thing, because he'd been AWESOME since then...2 meritorious promotions, maintenance Marine of the month, and had just been submitted to be squadron Marine Of the Quarter, when he got busted for buying stuff with a stolen credit card.

He's probably going to lose his job, all of his veteran's benefits, up to $80,000 of G.I. Bill college money, and have the OTH discharge hanging over him when he tries to get hired in the future...all for $190 worth of shit at Target.

i hate it...if he would've just come clean any of the 4 times I asked him, I probably would've recommended that he be processed for separation, but have the sentence suspended...but I can't very well argue that I can work with him and foster some integrity when he lied to me on the day I wrote my statement.

[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 10:51 PM. Reason : ^^ shop is shuffling personnel a little right now, but about 20.]


[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 10:55 PM. Reason : ]

2/4/2010 10:50:12 PM

did he deserve it?

sounds like it.

[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 10:51 PM. Reason : ]

2/4/2010 10:50:40 PM

He sounds like a scumbag in the honesty department

2/4/2010 11:02:09 PM

At least he wasn't gay

2/4/2010 11:02:30 PM

that's a hard an expensive lessoned learned.

[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 11:05 PM. Reason : .]

2/4/2010 11:04:22 PM

sounds like a move to get out anyway. he probably didn't want to go into combat.

[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 11:11 PM. Reason : Like Hendrix proclaiming he was gay]

2/4/2010 11:10:39 PM

^^^^ yep. I don't think it's in a compulsive sort of way or anything...and I don't even think that he would go out of his way to steal or anything, if that makes any sense...I think it's just that when something is served up right in front of him, he doesn't have the integrity to do the right thing.

Regardless, I have no room for thieves and liars...but I still hated to do that to him. I've known him since not long after he got out of boot camp, and in every other regard, he's absolutely 10/10. I've never really seen a case like him.

[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 11:12 PM. Reason : ^ hell no. not a chance in hell.]

2/4/2010 11:10:47 PM

of course not.

2/4/2010 11:15:20 PM

Sounds like a bitch move on your part. I wouldn't let a couple of minor infractions overshadow a long friendship.

Conversely, if I didn't like the dude in the first place, it would seem like a perfect opportunity to get rid of him once and for all.

2/4/2010 11:17:11 PM

so what

2/4/2010 11:19:16 PM

was he from a poor and/or black family?

There aren't too many things worse than seeing people throw their potential away.

2/4/2010 11:21:25 PM

Unit, Corp, God, Country

2/4/2010 11:22:05 PM

^^he's was most likely white, from a middle class family, that joined the marines with the hope that it would drastically change his lifestyle. Then he realized he'd have to go into a goddamn combat zone and decided to do some petty shit so he could get discharged and move back in with his parents allowing for a reevaluation of his life.

[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 11:26 PM. Reason : ^]

2/4/2010 11:25:44 PM

i meant to write "happened" afer my last post

2/4/2010 11:27:07 PM

sry duke

can't have thieves in the mix though. maybe he'll get his shit together now?

2/4/2010 11:28:29 PM

7^ Umm, two instances of larceny are not a "couple of minor infractions"...

and there was no "long friendship". I told him "I personally like you a lot and hate to see this happen, but that won't stop me from doing the right thing. If there's any way I can justify going to bat for you, I will, but we both know that I'm not your buddy, I'm your boss."

I also told him that I needed him to tell me the truth if he wanted me to help him, and that I pretty much knew all the answers anyway, so he might as well...motherfucker still lied to me.


I still told him that I wanted him to go to base legal, because if nothing else, he should be on a level playing field with others who've gone up for OTH.

[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 11:29 PM. Reason : ]

2/4/2010 11:28:46 PM

Maybe he's a really likable guy who just gets to know people so that he can screw them over once their defenses are down.

[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 11:34 PM. Reason : .]

2/4/2010 11:29:21 PM

In the 6 months I was 1st Lieutenant on my ship, I kicked out:

- one guy for alcohol offenses. he was a stellar sailor at sea, but often missed duty and even ship's movement due to alcohol. broke out of navy sponsored rehab. hated that we couldn't help him overcome his demons

- one guy for being gay. he came forward and told our doc that he had unprotected sex and needed to be tested. the retarded DADT rule meant he had to go. sometimes i wonder if he told the story just to get out

- 2 people for drugs. and not just any drugs - they got busted in a DEA sting for a new designer drug that wasn't even on our radar at the time

and as ordnance officer i had to kick out one guy for terrorist related activities. though in all fairness, i didn't kick him out as much as put him on lockdown for the last 2 days of an underway period and then turned him over to the FBI as soon as we hit the shore. never heard about him again. his brother had gone to a training camp overseas and he was surfing known terrorist trafficking websites on our own ship's network. what was really fun was that we had a full weapons loadout at the time (tomahawk, SM-2, etc) and i had to spend those 2 days going over every space i owned...missile launchers, small arms, deck gun, magazines...looking for any form of tampering with a fine toothed comb

2/4/2010 11:30:35 PM

what is the difference in OTH and dishonorable discharge? military noob here.

and good on you for doing the right thing.

2/4/2010 11:32:42 PM

Quote :

"and as ordnance officer i had to kick out one guy for terrorist related activities. though in all fairness, i didn't kick him out as much as put him on lockdown for the last 2 days of an underway period and then turned him over to the FBI as soon as we hit the shore. never heard about him again. his brother had gone to a training camp overseas and he was surfing known terrorist trafficking websites on our own ship's network. what was really fun was that we had a full weapons loadout at the time (tomahawk, SM-2, etc) and i had to spend those 2 days going over every space i owned...missile launchers, small arms, deck gun, magazines...looking for any form of tampering with a fine toothed comb "

wow, that's nuts.

gg though

2/4/2010 11:32:59 PM

^^^^nah. he's likeable because he's a rockstar at everything except not taking things that don't belong to him. i mean, he has a likeable personality, too, but that's not all of it.

Quote :

"^^he's was most likely white, from a middle class family, that joined the marines with the hope that it would drastically change his lifestyle. Then he realized he'd have to go into a goddamn combat zone and decided to do some petty shit so he could get discharged and move back in with his parents allowing for a reevaluation of his life."

he's hispanic, and has already done one combat deployment. it was quite obvious from watching him that he fucking loved it. also, he could barely talk and looked like I just shot his dog when I told him that he was being processed for separation from the USMC. oh, and he's fighting these proceedings, hoping that the General who ultimately gives the thumbs up or down decides to give him one more chance.

Quote :

"was he from a poor and/or black family? There aren't too many things worse than seeing people throw their potential away. "

Yep.

If this goes through, I'm going to sit him down and talk with him about applying himself with the same 10,000% level of dedication in whatever future endeavors that he undertakes, telling him that he has TONS of potential, and not to fuck it away another time whenever opportunity presents itself again.

[Edited on February 4, 2010 at 11:41 PM. Reason : ]

2/4/2010 11:36:35 PM

^^^ Dishonorable can only come from a court-martial, and it's analogous to a felony conviction. That's for really serious stuff.

There are 5 types:

Honorable
General, under honorable conditions (kicked out for being fat, gay, inept, etc)
Other than honorable
Bad conduct discharge
Dishonorable

the BCD and Dishonorable can only come from a court-martial...the other 3 can be given by in an administrative separation.

2/4/2010 11:44:35 PM

Had a Soldier like this who got busted in a shady deal with a motorcycle. He had a shitty background and most people would have known something was up with this deal but it was just another opportunity for him. The 1SG, PSG, and myself all went to bat for him and he wound up getting 30 days and was returned to duty. Never had a problem out of him again. To this day I'd trust him with my life without question.

2/5/2010 12:13:14 AM

Quote :

"as ordnance officer i had to kick out one guy for terrorist related activities. though in all fairness, i didn't kick him out as much as put him on lockdown for the last 2 days of an underway period and then turned him over to the FBI as soon as we hit the shore. never heard about him again. his brother had gone to a training camp overseas and he was surfing known terrorist trafficking websites on our own ship's network. what was really fun was that we had a full weapons loadout at the time (tomahawk, SM-2, etc) and i had to spend those 2 days going over every space i owned...missile launchers, small arms, deck gun, magazines...looking for any form of tampering with a fine toothed comb"

Shouldn't this be classified???!?!?! theDuke you're able to censor this and know the importance of military secrets but haven't yet??~!? goddamn people...

2/5/2010 12:20:46 AM

Quote :

"^^he's was most likely white, from a middle class family, that joined the marines with the hope that it would drastically change his lifestyle. Then he realized he'd have to go into a goddamn combat zone and decided to do some petty shit so he could get discharged and move back in with his parents allowing for a reevaluation of his life."

most marines i have ever known have been over-the-top gung-ho for any possible chance to put themselves in a 'combat zone' where they can use their training, and then go back as much as the gov't would let them

but that could be just the type of people ive known, i dunno

[Edited on February 5, 2010 at 12:28 AM. Reason : ^ please let solinari be joking]

2/5/2010 12:28:07 AM

I aint jokin son.

You think national security is funny?

2/5/2010 12:30:39 AM

i think his statement has absolutely nothing to do with national security, or lack thereof

2/5/2010 12:31:22 AM

then how come I haven't heard about it on the news??

must be some reason.

2/5/2010 1:04:07 AM

there was nothing secret about it back then...and it happened back in 2002. i don't even remember the dude's name. he didn't do anything to the ship and didn't have access to sensitive material. the biggest threats he posed would have been 1) sabotaging weapons on the ship 2) using his access to small arms to harm someone or 3) disclosing ships movement to enemy combatants. none of those things happened.

and for some reason i just got deja vu typing that out. maybe i've told it on here before.

[Edited on February 5, 2010 at 1:42 AM. Reason : god damn it's been over 7 years since i detached from my ship]

2/5/2010 1:33:47 AM

this solinari is an idiot

2/5/2010 2:21:04 AM

Solinari, as much as we all enjoy your trolling and general partisan hackery and/or devils advocacy (i'm still not sure sometimes), you should probably withhold commentar on military procedures. because, you know, it only hurts your credibility.

I'm just sayin'

2/5/2010 3:45:03 AM

...what credibility, exactly?

2/5/2010 4:08:51 AM

the credibility that one troll extends to his fellows?

2/5/2010 4:11:33 AM

Sucks, man. But you do what you gotta do. The Marine Corps doesn't need a reputation as a place for fuck-ups that can't follow basic rules of law and decency.

Hopefully he'll do OK elsewhere, but it's not your concern if he doesn't.

2/5/2010 5:17:07 AM

negatory, joe_schmoe, I am eminently qualified to comment on proper military procedure.

2/5/2010 8:04:15 AM

Quote :

"The Marine Corps doesn't need a reputation as a place for fuck-ups that can't follow basic rules of law and decency."

yeah dude, that's the Army

zing!

2/5/2010 8:06:36 AM

yeah, definitely better a thief than a gay

only one of those two crimes are forgivable

2/5/2010 8:16:04 AM

All of the marines that have come through here that I've worked with have carried themselves very well. Top notch people.
All of the soldiers did as well, except for one. He was a cockbag.

2/5/2010 8:24:04 AM

Well, it's too late now, but it's clear that you regret your decision, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist. Where is your resolve?

2/5/2010 8:28:44 AM

isn't this the first thing they teach you on day 1? do not lie.

2/5/2010 8:32:56 AM

I have a hard time liking people who are sneaks/shit-talkers/thieves

even when they are nice when I talk to them

2/5/2010 9:12:52 AM

mn1romumcittdnl

2/5/2010 9:47:49 AM

^ Lol

I'm sorry to hear about that. I suppose I will soon be dealing with similar things in the next couple of years. Can't wait to commission, though. Just 3 to 6 more months!

2/5/2010 10:13:14 AM

Quote :

"he came forward and told our doc"

wouldn't that be privileged info, since he told it to the doc?


Anyway, I ended up retaining the shop chief. He's no rockstar, but he's coming around.

The guy who kept stealing stuff, well...One of my real rockstars is having lots of trouble in is marriage, and didn't want to deploy. Since we were shorthanded, we decided to stop the separation proceedings against the thief and take him with us...

Well, last weekend, that motherfucker tried to scam his way out of $76 worth of parking fees at the airport, then disguised himself and tried to get away once they were onto him. At that point, I said enough was enough...we'd just have to go shorthanded--I'm not taking him with us, and we'd move forward with him being kicked out.

4/1/2010 8:49:47 AM

i thought military training had a lot of emphasis on being honorable. guess he missed that day?

4/1/2010 9:00:36 AM