http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/6976941/

Let me begin by saying it is completely wrong, unprofessional, and downright immoral.

Should it always be criminal?

In North Carolina, the age of consent is 16 years old, no ifs, ands, or but(t)s.

The teacher in the above article engaged in sexual activity with someone over the legal age of consent, yet was arrested. Is this a double standard? To me, it sounds like an ethical violation for sure, but should someone be labeled a sexual predator for life and sent to jail for it?

Any teacher who does something like this should lose his/her teaching license and immediately be fired, but arrested, even when the "victim" is over the age of consent?

(Yes, there is a specific law in NC which forbids a teacher from engaging in any sexual activity with a student, even if the student is over 16 or even 18. Should there be such a law, or should a violation fall under the domain of the licensing agency or workplace?)

2/6/2010 8:35:15 PM

I agree it should be illegal, the teacher just has too much power over the student and it just sets up for too many unethical situations.

It's scary enough to have your kids attend public schools with all the dregs of society out there but to have to worry about teachers too? Eh, just too much for me...

2/6/2010 8:38:16 PM

Should it be a crime, yes. Should it be considered a sex crime and equivalent to rape, no.
This is along the same lines of sexual harassment, in that the teacher is a superior and has power over the student.
(to me at least)

A teacher should never ever have any relation besides a professional student/teacher. Now teachers can be 'friends' with students in the school, but still at the above level.

2/6/2010 8:42:04 PM

Quote :

"Now teachers can be 'friends' with students in the school, but still at the above level."

A teacher and a student should never be "peers"

2/6/2010 8:50:47 PM

I agree, there shouldn't be additional criminal punishment of the teacher. Apply the law as it stands and allow the school to perform non-judicial punishment and move on with it.

2/6/2010 8:54:49 PM

Quote :

"Lex: Should it always be criminal?"

You answered your own question:

Quote :

"Lex: Let me begin by saying it is completely wrong, unprofessional, and downright immoral."

If you know why it's "completely wrong" and "downright immoral," then i suspect you also know why it's considered predatory and criminal.

You know all that stuff about how teachers hand out grades, are in positions of superiority, and even all the touchy-feely stuff about how there's a special bond and contract between teacher and student and it tears apart the critical fabric of education when you take advantage of it.

But if you wanna get down to it...when a student enters the school, they pretty much hand over their rights to the teachers/administration. A 16 year-old inside a classroom is legally different than a 16 year-old at the mall, and that's why it's legally different when a teacher has sex with them. If we restored student rights, it might be a different story, but whatever... I can and have argued this point all day long. It's too easy.

2/6/2010 9:06:47 PM

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/597/story/1227990.html?storylink=omni_popular

[Edited on February 6, 2010 at 9:08 PM. Reason : ]

2/6/2010 9:08:23 PM

Quote :

"Should it always be criminal?"

Yes.

2/6/2010 10:09:25 PM

i thought the age of consent was 16 only if the two parties were less than 4 years apart. is that not true, is it 16 across the board?

2/6/2010 10:11:48 PM

Not when it comes to teachers and students.

Any age teacher boinking any age student is illegal.


And yes, it should be this way.

2/6/2010 10:19:06 PM

Should be highly illegal. If parents can't send their children to school without worrying about prey, where can they send them?

2/6/2010 10:27:48 PM

^^ i'm asking in general. my point was that i thought it was illegal even if he wasnt a teacher.

2/6/2010 10:54:38 PM

16 and 50 is legal in nc.

16 year olds can strip in rhode island

[Edited on February 6, 2010 at 10:56 PM. Reason : lol]

2/6/2010 10:56:09 PM

Quote :

" A teacher and a student should never be "peers""

When I said 'friends' there was a reason it was in ' '. Maybe it should have been in italics.
That is no where near "peers". I meant friends in that some students come to you after class to tell you a story about their life outside of school as opposed to just running from the room.

I thought NC was 16 with parental consent. Also 2 year allowance for age variance, ie 18, 16.

[Edited on February 6, 2010 at 11:42 PM. Reason : .]

2/6/2010 11:41:37 PM

no. just a flat 16.

where do people come up with these ridiculous made-up rules?

2/7/2010 12:31:19 AM

Quote :

"If you know why it's "completely wrong" and "downright immoral," then i suspect you also know why it's considered predatory and criminal."

cheating on your significant other is "completely wrong" and "downright immoral" but there is not law against it.

2/7/2010 12:35:18 AM

^^there used to be a 4 year rule with a minimum age of 12 in addition to 16 being the consent floor so 16 year olds could with 12 year olds and 19 year olds could with 15 year olds but i'm pretty sure thats gone now.

2/7/2010 12:38:54 AM

Quote :

"Any age teacher boinking any age student is illegal. "

What if there is a 22 year old teacher and a 20, or even 22 year old student?

I would have no problems if they did stuff outside of school, and neither should anybody else.

(As long as the student is not that particular teacher's student in school)

2/7/2010 1:08:54 AM

I see nothing wrong if a 17 year old wants to make sweet sweet love to his hot young teacher who has been burned by love.

2/7/2010 1:09:31 AM

^AHAHA

You win.

2/7/2010 1:19:52 AM

Quote :

"no. just a flat 16. where do people come up with these ridiculous made-up rules?"

wrong. it's not a "flat 16". the "ridiculous and made-up rules" come from the NC General Assembly.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_7A.html

Quote :

"§ 14-27.7A. Statutory rape or sexual offense of person who is 13, 14, or 15 years old. (a) A defendant is guilty of a Class B1 felony if the defendant engages in vaginal intercourse or a sexual act with another person who is 13, 14, or 15 years old and the defendant is at least six years older than the person, except when the defendant is lawfully married to the person. (b) A defendant is guilty of a Class C felony if the defendant engages in vaginal intercourse or a sexual act with another person who is 13, 14, or 15 years old and the defendant is more than four but less than six years older than the person, except when the defendant is lawfully married to the person."

some other interesting laws

Quote :

"§ 14-184. Fornication and adultery. If any man and woman, not being married to each other, shall lewdly and lasciviously associate, bed and cohabit together, they shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor: Provided, that the admissions or confessions of one shall not be received in evidence against the other. § 14-186. Opposite sexes occupying same bedroom at hotel for immoral purposes; falsely registering as husband and wife. Any man and woman found occupying the same bedroom in any hotel, public inn or boardinghouse for any immoral purpose, or any man and woman falsely registering as, or otherwise representing themselves to be, husband and wife in any hotel, public inn or boardinghouse, shall be deemed guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. § 14-197. Using profane or indecent language on public highways; counties exempt. If any person shall, on any public road or highway and in the hearing of two or more persons, in a loud and boisterous manner, use indecent or profane language, he shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor. The following counties shall be exempt from the provisions of this section: Pitt and Swain."

[Edited on February 7, 2010 at 3:58 AM. Reason : ]

2/7/2010 3:56:48 AM

^dude, 16 years old is legal no matter what. That is what bobbydigital was arguing. you people make up all this "well she can be 17 if the parents give you permission to have sex with their daughter" which is ridiculous.

2/7/2010 8:38:01 AM

Besides you see how those 16 year olds dress nowadays. It's like leaving your car unlocked.

2/7/2010 9:55:52 AM

Quote :

"A teacher should never ever have any relation besides a professional student/teacher."

I whole-heartedly agree. But this is not a matter for law. The age of consent is for everyone, not just for certain people based on their job. (we all have the same rights, regardless of our employment.)

Quote :

"there is a specific law in NC which forbids a teacher from engaging in any sexual activity with a student, even if the student is over 16 or even 18. Should there be such a law?"

No. Of course not. You fuckers are crazy to support such laws.

The very serious issues raised by teachers having consensual sex with students can be addressed by school policy. If a teacher violates school policy, they can be fired. There's not a reason in the world to make such consensual, albeit socially undesirable, behavior illegal. That is inequality under the law:

Person A and person B are of the legal age of consent for sexual activity. If they consensually have sexual relations, no crime has been committed. It is utter bullshit to suggest that the right to engage in the civil liberty of consensual sex depends on what job you happen to have. Complete. Utter. Bullshit.

OMG!! WE AS A SOCIETY DON'T LIKE THIS, SO WE'LL MAKE IT ILLEGAL -- BECAUSE THAT'S HOW LAWS ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK

I MEAN SURE, PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS, BUT WE GET TO PICK AND CHOOSE WHICH RIGHTS THEY HAVE BASED ON THEIR JOBS.

I'll say it again: You fuckers are crazy to support such laws.

[Edited on February 7, 2010 at 10:42 AM. Reason : ]

2/7/2010 10:36:51 AM

Quote :

"wrong. it's not a "flat 16". the "ridiculous and made-up rules" come from the NC General Assembly. "

The statue you cited does not refute that the age of consent in NC is 16. It only lays down the severity of the crime for having sex with someone under 16 based on the age of the other party.

Quote :

"No. Of course not. You fuckers are crazy to support such laws. The very serious issues raised by teachers having consensual sex with students can be addressed by school policy. If a teacher violates school policy, they can be fired. There's not a reason in the world to make such consensual, albeit socially undesirable, behavior illegal."

This is the first, and likely the only post where I will agree with indy.





[Edited on February 7, 2010 at 11:19 AM. Reason : a]

2/7/2010 11:17:33 AM

Eventhough the age of consent is 16. I do not have a problem with the harsh consequences of a teacher having sexual relations with a student for many of the reasons listed above. What I do have a problem with is dealing out the same punishment for teachers who have sexual relations with a student that has reached the age of majority aka 18 yrs old. Unethical and unprofessional is a teacher that has sex with an 18 yr old student. This teacher should be fired immediately if discovered. Illegal in the eyes of the law though I think this should not be. This 18 yr old slut is old enough to go star in a pr0n, work at the strip club, or can have the train run on her by 10 50 yr old guys yet if she has sex with a 24 yr old teacher that guy is going to jail.

2/7/2010 12:14:34 PM

If 16-year-olds had the same rights in school that they do everywhere else, then maybe it wouldn't be illegal.

But when they enter the classroom, they become legally different beings with different legal rights. It is legally different when members of the school have sex with students. If you still have trouble understanding this, consider prisons. It is illegal for prison guards to have sex with inmates.

It's pretty simple, folks...when you institutionalize people and remove their rights, you cannot have sex with them in the context of that institution.

2/7/2010 12:51:12 PM

most of the time when teachers have sex with students they don't go for it AT SCHOOL.

2/7/2010 1:03:19 PM

Yes, but it's in the context of the school.

If a teacher meets a sixteen year-old student at the movies and has sex with him/her not knowing he/she's a student, then that's a different story.

2/7/2010 1:15:26 PM

^ it is a different story, but it wouldn’t be treated as such by parents, administrators, or the media.

2/7/2010 1:16:02 PM

18 should not be illegal. Technically some loser chick could still be 20 and in high school. So a 24 year old new teacher is guilty and is a sex offender for hooking up with this girl after running into each other at a party...

2/7/2010 3:59:22 PM

Quote :

" If 16-year-olds had the same rights in school that they do everywhere else, then maybe it wouldn't be illegal. But when they enter the classroom, they become legally different beings with different legal rights."

Perhaps, but this isn't about the students' rights to have sex with teachers, it's the other way around.

Quote :

"It is legally different when members of the school have sex with students."

Well, now it is, but it shouldn't be. That's the point of this thread....

Quote :

"If you still have trouble understanding this, consider prisons.....It's pretty simple, folks...when you institutionalize people and remove their rights....."

So... Everyone in a public institution, from schools to prisons, has different rights than the rest of us?

Quote :

"legally different beings"

...

[Edited on February 7, 2010 at 10:43 PM. Reason : ]

2/7/2010 10:32:51 PM

I think its fucked up because its any school personnel with any student, even if its not a student they know from school. Shit I work at multiple schools and don't know half the damn kids. If she's the legal age and they aren't a direct student of yours and it didn't happen at school, I don't think it should be criminal. Fucked up and punished in some manner, up to and possibly including your job? Yea. But meeting somebody outside of school and then finding out they are a student where you work is a very different situation from banging a student who you exercise direct control over.

I also find it ridiculous that once the person graduates you could fuck them and it be legal, but if it started while they were just attending school (whether you taught them or not), then it's totally illegal. A younger coworker is friends with students outside of school (went to school the next county over so he didn't attend school with any of them but has known most of them for over a decade) and several of them are of legal age now. Hell, his girlfriend now is only a year and a half out of HS. But he legally couldn't date her until she was out of school, even though she was almost 19 when she graduated. The age difference is about 4 years, I think. Hence why I think there should be some ambiguity. Not all cases are cut and dry and involve some 50+ teacher using their influence to bang some little boy or girl against their will. Hence my issue with it.

2/7/2010 11:04:13 PM

Quote :

"indy: Everyone in a public institution, from schools to prisons, has different rights than the rest of us?"

Students and inmates absolutely have different (less) rights than the rest of us. For example, neither group has real 4th amendment rights when they're in school or in prison. So, yes, it's different when you have sex with them in the context of the institution in which they have less rights.

If a prison guard can't get his dick sucked by a 40 year-old inmate who is up on prostitution, then I don't see how you're gonna make the case for a teacher getting some from a 16 year-old student.

[Edited on February 8, 2010 at 1:55 AM. Reason : ]

2/8/2010 1:54:11 AM

^^^^
Did you just compare school students to prisoners. I mean i have heard the expression school is like prison but thats ridiculous. Everyone should have the same legal rights. Not talking about morals right now but it is ridiculous to ruin there lives. No wonder they need more teachers it comes with have more friggin rules.

2/8/2010 3:31:18 AM

Not allowing teachers and students to have sex = ruining students' lives

2/8/2010 5:39:55 AM

^Not what we are saying. Ruining an a school employees life for having consensual sex with an of age adult should be completely legal.

If you and me both go to a party and get with two 18 year old ladies, it's completely fine. But I go to work and find out that the chicks go to my high school, your still fine and I'm a fucking rapist with a permanent record.

[Edited on February 8, 2010 at 6:49 AM. Reason : ]

2/8/2010 6:48:49 AM

^ The Law is the Law dude. I mean zomg, if we let 24 yr old teachers have sex with a 18/19 year olds that they meet (not realizing that they are still high school students at their school) at a mutual friends party we are basically opening the door for anything. Pretty soon it will be "ok" for 40 yr old 5th grade teachers to have sexual relations with a 11 yr old.

2/8/2010 7:24:55 AM

^hes saying if its otherwise within the law but ya, there isn't going to be a smooth transition so theres not really a way to put a clause in for special situations. Even if its not a direct student, that faculty member can "help" the student in an unfair way or threaten them.

If a teacher finds a student breaking a rule in the hallway, they could blackmail them for sex. A lot of bad things could easily happen if it was legal. Things are just bettter off the way the law is now.

2/8/2010 7:35:50 AM

The problem is that the sex offender's registry gets clogged up with people that aren't really dangerous, teachers who had consensual sex with a student, kids who were sexting each other in middle school, chicks who flashed their shit on spring break, dudes who got caught pissing on the side of a building, etc..

For those of us who want to actually protect ourselves and families with the sex offender registry, it's becoming more and more useless.

Secondly, a lot of people's lives get ruined for non-predatory crimes, can't get a job or housing, and ultimately have to live on the taxpayer's dime.

2/8/2010 8:10:49 AM

^^Well that's why I am saying leave it up to the school district and local DA whether it was somebody making a mistake or somebody that was maliciously taking advantage of a student. We had one guy around here that WAS taking advantage of his female students. Creepy fucking dude who finally got busted, but had been doing it since I was a student here. He was absolutely using his position to take advantage of girls who were struggling in his class. That is totally wrong. Bad part is he got off because he targeted questionable girls, so they called her character into question and she then refused to testify. I know another guy at the middle school who was banging out a girl when I was in 8th grade and she was in 6th grade. He has never been caught and I have no proof of what went down. That is despicable and I can't stand to be around him. Makes my blood boil whenever I see him talking to female students, because I know what he's capable of and have a family member in his class and a friends daughter.

So again, I certainly ain't defending that shit. Both cases they broke the law, regardless of school personnel/student laws. The kids were underage and that right there makes it totally illegal. I was simply saying that if no law has been broken, (consenting adults, outside school, and not a subordinate) let the district decide if they should punish/fire the person, but it doesn't make them a rapist or pedophile.

^And Bobby is totally right on that shit too. One of my neighbors was on the damn sex offender site cause he was dating his wife before they got married and she was 15 and he had turned 20 and they got caught. While he was still 19 it was cool, but when he hit 20 he was over 4 years older than here. He's married to her and they are in their 20s now, but that shit was showing up on the sex offender registry. Is that really necessary?

[Edited on February 8, 2010 at 8:15 AM. Reason : ]

2/8/2010 8:11:44 AM

There should be no special law regarding teachers and students having sex.

Adults having sex with children is criminal.
Trading sexual favors, money, goods, etc for academic favors is criminal.
Coercing a student (or employee, patient, customer, etc) into providing sexual favors (or money, other favors, etc) is criminal.

However, pedophilia, bribery, fraud and extortion aren't any more or less criminal because its a student and a teacher. There are plenty of other professional relationships that give one person a certain amount of coercive power over another. There shouldn't be any exception for a teacher and a student.

2/8/2010 9:01:39 AM

Quote :

"The problem is that the sex offender's registry gets clogged up with people that aren't really dangerous, teachers who had consensual sex with a student"

Those are the most dangerous ones. The ones that convicne week minded children that they love them to get sex out of them. I wouldn't want my child around an adult that is looking to "fall in love with" children.

Quote :

"We had one guy around here that WAS taking advantage of his female students. Creepy fucking dude who finally got busted, but had been doing it since I was a student here. He was absolutely using his position to take advantage of girls who were struggling in his class. That is totally wrong. Bad part is he got off because he targeted questionable girls, so they called her character into question and she then refused to testify"

Cardinal Gibbons?

Quote :

" ^And Bobby is totally right on that shit too. One of my neighbors was on the damn sex offender site cause he was dating his wife before they got married and she was 15 and he had turned 20 and they got caught."

Thats wrong too. Its so easy to take advantage of teens under 16 because they have no freedom and are really adults so when predators treat them like adults they instantly fall in love. They are vulnerable because society takes their rights. You can get into an argument of people over 14 should be adults but right now they are children and will continue to be very fragile mentally with the way our society is structured. Therefore, they must be protected from 20 year old ADULTS looking for sex. Even if its long term they are after.

Quote :

"There shouldn't be any exception for a teacher and a student."

being taken advantage of inthe workplace is totally different from school. school should be a sanctuary that parents feel safe sending their kids to to be raised. Not with the possibility of being picked up and whored out but the ones who are supposed to be "raising" them

[Edited on February 8, 2010 at 9:04 AM. Reason : wow]

2/8/2010 9:02:06 AM

and their employment should be terminated immediately.

not added to the sex offender's registry for life.

2/8/2010 9:12:17 AM

so they could easily go work with children again?

2/8/2010 9:14:41 AM

If its extortion then call it extortion. If it's criminal sex with a minor, then call it that. If it's both, then it's both. Why should it be anything other than these if it's a student and a teacher? What about pediatrician and student? Or priest and student? Or police officer and student?

2/8/2010 9:17:25 AM

^ Exactly. NO to new laws that accomplish nothing new.

2/8/2010 9:23:48 AM

Quote :

" http://www.charlotteobserver.com/597/story/1227990.html?storylink=omni_popular"

JoeSchmoe re-exposed??1?

2/8/2010 9:28:11 AM

I stopped reading half-way through so perhaps this has been addressed already.

stop using the word prey. i really hate when people act as if these 16yos (male or female) are victims and preyed upon. Some are, yes, but most are not.

These students are not falling to manipulation of the teacher in exchange for higher grades but are rather developed people with normal sex drives.

At 16 you know the difference between consent and rape. You know how to say now, and you know how to report a crime if you feel taken advantage of.

While I do find it unethical and poor professional form I do not believe it should always be illegal. For example, lying I find to be unethical in most situations but do not think it should necessarily be a criminal offense.

I believe these situations require more subjective evaluation.

2/8/2010 10:57:43 AM

Quote :

"If a teacher meets a sixteen year-old student at the movies and has sex with him/her not knowing he/she's a student, then that's a different story. ^ it is a different story, but it wouldn’t be treated as such by parents, administrators, or the media."

I believe there was a teacher arrested a couple of years ago in NC that had sex with a 16+ year old student that went to a different school. Its one thing if it is the teacher's own student, but not when its just a random girl who happens to be a student somewhere.

Quote :

"wrong. it's not a "flat 16". the "ridiculous and made-up rules" come from the NC General Assembly."

Read what you quoted. It is pertaining to rape or sexual offense of a person who is 13, 14, or 15 years old. It has nothing to do with someone who is 16 or older.

Fire a teacher who has sex with a student. Ban them from teaching ever again. Charging them criminally, partically as a sex offender, no. Never being able to work again in a school should be enough to deter teachers from having sex with students.

2/8/2010 5:33:00 PM