Given that jobs and the economy are the number one priority for the year as set out in the State of the Union, I thought it was appropriate to start a discussion about it.
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
2/10/2010 12:56:17 AM
I dont want to see it. We can't afford it. How are we going to pay for it?Ive always thought it was best if you are broke and jobless to go out and rack up as much debt as you can, bc surely you would be better off and get some neat stuff you wanted.I guess a year ago is too long to remember the 800B we spent, with great results. 5k for hiring a new employee? This only plays to voters, bc business owners arent nearly as dumb and know this will have no impact at all. Its like throwing in an air freshener when you buy your car. Its not like people are running out to buy a car to get the free air freshener.
2/10/2010 8:34:24 AM
Well then, I would ask you what proposals you have in mind to create more jobs and in return you will say that we need to cut regulations on employers to which I will go ahead and save us the time and ask which regulations on employers/businesses do you want to see cut?Oh, and Republicans looked like damned hypocrites as it pertains to the last stimulus and I hope they get nailed for it.[Edited on February 10, 2010 at 9:06 AM. Reason : .]
2/10/2010 9:05:31 AM
2/10/2010 9:30:48 AM
Damn. Does anyone want to dispute the points made in the video posted?
2/10/2010 9:47:53 AM
2/10/2010 9:48:46 AM
2/10/2010 9:54:48 AM
2/10/2010 10:12:20 AM
Ok, ONE example is unemployement. In this new "jobs bill" they are again extending unemployement benefits. These are paid by businesses and states are raising the taxes on these businesses to cover the difference. Now you may say they are simply sending money to help out the states, which is fine.. but where does THAT money come from?Again, they keep on changing the rules. Times are tough now. Business is down. So in good times when your tax burdens increase you simply raise prices to cover the difference. However, market pressures are now to lower prices as people arent spending. So you cannot raise prices you have to lower overhead, which usually means employees.google it. Some states are taxing employers 35% more. And forcing health care/taxes on businesses. Another major example. Raising limits on SS tax, another. These are hurting businesses NOW, simply bc they are required to fund these programs that have been mismanaged by the Federal govt.And Im not even mentioning direct interference into the market. LIke buying a car company, or as cash mentioned with the housing bubble.^Good post cash. [Edited on February 10, 2010 at 10:14 AM. Reason : .]
2/10/2010 10:12:41 AM
As far as the economy goes...Bush screwed the pooch..but Obama is stomping his head in.
2/10/2010 10:19:09 AM
The asinine thing is assuming all blame / credit can be placed on either president.
2/10/2010 10:21:41 AM
2/10/2010 10:34:22 AM
There is a pretty solid chance that I'll be unemployed in about two months and no I do not think that increasing unemployment benefits by increasing the tax on employers is a good idea. Yes it is painful, yes it will be painful for me, but it prevents long term recovery.Now, if you DO think that they should, approximately 85% of the $700B stimulus is unspent. Why not start there?What about people who oppose the "Jobs Bill" because embedded in it is a renewal of the Patriot Act?
2/10/2010 10:38:37 AM
i couldnt fast forward past the whiny whaa whaa whaa republicans did a dumb thing so its ok if democrats do dumb things so i stopped watching.
2/10/2010 10:40:54 AM
2/10/2010 10:44:38 AM
2/10/2010 10:46:16 AM
That's diabolical.
2/10/2010 10:52:33 AM
Here. Ima break down some stimulation for a sec:Step 1. Get rip of cap gains tax on small and medium businesses for like 5 years. Step 2. Toss out the retardo cap and trade bill that got passed and replace it with a flat carbon tax that increases as time goes on. Use the proceeds to..Step 3. Put in place massive tax credits to Businesses and Individuals who install wind/solar/geothermal systems in their businesses/homes. At the same time ensure all power suppliers in the US allow everyone on the grid to put power onto the grid for $credits on their power bill. Tax Credits would cover generation systems and installation (probably not storage though).Step 4. Build more nukes. Everywhere. If there is a place, put a nuke there. If you can put a pebble bed reactor in my backyard lets do that shit.Step 5. Do some quick fix insurance stuff (allow competition across state lines, individual tax deductions, national insurance database for easy shopping and comparison, encourage HSAs, etc...)There are probably some other things you could do here and there but those are some things that could get done quick. Lower energy costs benefit everyone, everywhere in the us. By creating tax credits for individual/business installation of clean energy systems you create demand for those systems which creates private industry jobs. It also creates real investment into more development of those technologies, which will lower prices/increase efficiency at which points the credits can safely expire. The really fucking stupid carbon credit scams where you pay money to specific governement approved "green energy" businesses is really awful and wont ever work. That plus some quick insurance fixes will drop the price of energy and insurance accross the board, increasing purchase power for individuals and businesses.[Edited on February 10, 2010 at 11:01 AM. Reason : a]
2/10/2010 11:00:50 AM
2/10/2010 11:29:43 AM
Does anyone know who introduced the patriot act renewal? I'll bet it was actually the democrats in an effort to A.) Get republicans onboard and B.) Hide their support for it from their base.
2/10/2010 11:40:22 AM
^^^I agree with everything you said except for the carbon tax. Any regulation on carbon dioxide emissions is just stupid and hurts your wallet and the economy.^yeah probably.
2/10/2010 1:12:08 PM
If anyone doesn't want to watch the full 10 minute video, you can start at 2:50 through 7:50 to get the main point.
2/10/2010 1:39:31 PM
i went to 2:50 and it was still the same whining so i skipped around between there and 7:50 and every time it was more whining.[Edited on February 10, 2010 at 1:46 PM. Reason : d][Edited on February 10, 2010 at 1:47 PM. Reason : gg]
2/10/2010 1:46:43 PM
I thought the 2009 stimulus bill was supposed to be a Jobs Bill. was I mistaken?
2/10/2010 9:25:25 PM
Terrible, terrible idea....and next time, why don't you embed a video of Keith Olbermann too, for good measure...
2/10/2010 9:36:53 PM
We can't even begin to think of jobs until we let the creative destruction happen.We didn't let that happen.Going forward, growth and innovation is now stunted as we protect zombie banks and don't force a cram down of 2 decades worth of credit growth that FAR exceeded productivity growth.There is a reason the economic engine in this country isn't moving, and we can't will it to move by raining Helicopter Bens dollars. The destruction has to occur with all the ensuing job losses and disappearing of companies that comes with it. And after the medicine has been taken the uncertainty of when/if the credit writedowns are coming is gone and we can go back to lending to people who can afford it and invest in companies with sound business practices.Not a moment sooner.
2/10/2010 10:03:06 PM
2/10/2010 10:05:22 PM
^^yep, gotta cull the herd a little. can't get off and running again until our feet are back on the ground.
2/10/2010 10:19:57 PM
2/10/2010 10:53:25 PM
2/10/2010 10:57:20 PM
If you still want a different source, how about Talking Points Memo?http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/dems-to-celebrate-stimulus-anniversary-by-slamming-gop.php?ref=fpblg
2/10/2010 11:33:52 PM
I'm not really sure how much traction they will get with this. It isn't exactly stupid, post signing of the bill, to ignore your constituents. As a Federal taxpayer, if I'm going to be forced to pay for the boondoggle, you best believe I want to get the most for it I can.Just more time wasting and politics being played by DC. Eventually, this shit has to stop.
2/11/2010 7:24:56 AM
2/11/2010 9:08:26 AM
"I'm not really sure how much traction they will get with this."Voting against legislation and then taking credit for it saying it was important and necessary that the effects of the legislation happen as you hand out the big fake check... yeah I think that kind of hypocrisy for voting no on something you claim to support because its the partisan thing to do will have some traction.
2/11/2010 10:09:40 AM
again, like the war vote?
2/11/2010 10:14:12 AM
As with pretty much all legislation, this piece is not about how many jobs will be created. The government can't create jobs, it can only take (or create) money and pay people to do work. If that was productive, we could all have government jobs and we'd be the most prosperous nation on earth. Really, it's about how many jobs this bill will destroy. Every time the government spends money it doesn't have, it sets us up for even more pain later on. Just like someone might enjoy maxing out every credit card they have, the time will come when the money has to be paid back at a high rate of interest.
2/11/2010 12:00:51 PM
if you want more of something you subsidize itif you want less you DONTwhy do we pay people to stay unemployed? a good motivator for people to get out and make it happen with free enterprize is endin HANDOUTS. its that simple but unemployed poor people stay in the getto and vote democrat so of course they dont want to stop their voting base
2/11/2010 1:17:50 PM
^ the Führer himself couldn't have said it anybetter.
2/11/2010 1:58:48 PM
2/11/2010 3:30:26 PM
Are employers indecisive, or are they having a hard time meeting their bottom line? I don't think this is just an issue of employers not feeling like hiring. I think the recession has hit the employers just as hard as everyone else, and they're trying to squeeze as much productivity out of their current workers as they can. In a recession like this, the first thing to go is training. Employers are not looking to take on new employees right now, they'd rather keep the ones they have, and employees aren't trying to take a chance with a new job if their current job is stable and has benefits. There's low job turnover as a result. I don't think tax credits are going to change anything in that respect.We need to reduce the tax burden on businesses if we want our country to be competitive in the future, no doubt about that, but tax credits are not the way to do that. We first need to address the spending/budget deficit problem, and then we can look at some lower taxes across the board. I understand that no one wants to bring fiscal discipline into the picture, but if we don't, there's going to be hell to pay. We need massive cuts in government, and we need to increase taxes. We need to default on our debt and convince our creditors that we will pay the money back over time, and not inflate. These are not easy decisions, but by not making them now, we only put them off for a few years.
2/11/2010 3:45:01 PM
supplanter, its really pretty simple. In order for a business to hire someone they need to have the money to do so. Employing someone costs a lot more to the business than most employees think. But right now business is down, so revenues are down...meaning businesses have LESS money so they are cutting overhead. Raising taxes on them will only cause them to cut more jobs. Allowing them to keep some of their money at least is a step in the right direction, however, most businesses wont fall for the 5k tax credit for hiring someone. They are smarter than that, and will start to hire when demand for their products/services return.^good post. I think in our ADD culture many are looking for a magic bullet or ONE simple solution. In reality, there just isnt one. Tax cuts overall would help people and the economy, but we just cant afford to do them with this record spending. [Edited on February 11, 2010 at 3:50 PM. Reason : .]
2/11/2010 3:47:42 PM
2/11/2010 3:51:37 PM
2/11/2010 3:53:25 PM
Oh, I understand completely. That's why I say these are hard decisions. No one has the courage to do it, and there's very little political support for it. I think someone needs to level with the public and get us back on a sustainable path, because if not, we're not going to have an immigration problem, we'll have an emigration problem, because the younger generation of workers is not going to stay here when all of the opportunities are overseas.
2/11/2010 3:55:43 PM
2/11/2010 4:01:07 PM
I was just poking fun at the selectively applied philosophy of "if you want more of something you subsidize it" with subsidizing unemployment to create more unemployment, but subsidizing hiring does not create more hiring.
2/11/2010 4:06:52 PM
Does anyone else not see the paradox in this statement
2/11/2010 5:22:26 PM
why do we let the goverment take our money to give jobs to people who cant get them trough competition? this is what i do everyday. you have to be ready to hustle every day and let the spirit rise in you.NO MORE TAXES and that money wil go to what? JOBS!
2/12/2010 1:34:26 PM
^^ That is not a job, it is a public whim. Andrew Jackson could fire every last public sector employee tomorrow. Meanwhile, private sector workers owe their jobs to consumers, which are (usually) less fickle than voters. True, this is not currently the situation, as politicians nowadays answer to public sector unions instead of voters, but maybe that will change back in the future somehow.
2/12/2010 5:42:23 PM
You didn't demonstrate how a government can't create a job.
2/12/2010 5:50:26 PM