With the Tea Party led by Sarah Palin & GOP fringes, are we seeing a return to McCarthyism?











One of the main speakers from CPAC which just wrapped up.

2/23/2010 1:58:36 AM

wait, is that last video real?

but to answer your question, no. I think you're being a bit sensationalist.

[Edited on February 23, 2010 at 2:15 AM. Reason : .]

2/23/2010 2:13:38 AM

Obviously I don't think McCarthyism is coming back, if for no other reason than McCathy has been sleeping the eternal slumber for a while now. And, you're right, the thread title is a bit of a joke. But calling people communist for political reasons certainly seems to be a motif that's in vogue, especially with the Tea Party. Heck, even one republican party member running against another republican party member for congress right here in the triangle has said he wont support the other because the other one supports communist ideas.

2/23/2010 2:21:56 AM

Hey look, I can play the same game! Why don't you get your head out of your partisan ass and wake up. There is a fringe to almost every issue and group.

2/23/2010 3:21:24 AM

^ Pretty much nailed it.

Quote :

"But calling people communist fascists for political reasons certainly seems to be a motif that's in vogue"

Works both ways.


On the other hand, I don't find the accusation that Barack Obama is a socialist to be particularly heinous since it isn't particularly inaccurate just like referring to George Bush as a fascist isn't particularly inaccurate.

Two things have happened here,
1) "socialist" and "fascist" have been so over-used that they've lost all weight and definition
2) both parties have drifted towards their respective corners under the cover of dismissing the over-use of "socialism" and "fascism".

2/23/2010 6:44:30 AM

Quote :

"Hey look, I can play the same game! Why don't you get your head out of your partisan ass and wake up. There is a fringe to almost every issue and group."

For the WINZ

2/23/2010 7:28:06 AM

Quote :

"I don't find the accusation that Barack Obama is a socialist to be particularly heinous since it isn't particularly inaccurate just like referring to George Bush as a fascist isn't particularly inaccurate. Two things have happened here, 1) "socialist" and "fascist" have been so over-used that they've lost all weight and definition 2) both parties have drifted towards their respective corners under the cover of dismissing the over-use of "socialism" and "fascism". "

This.

2/23/2010 8:23:50 AM

except the right's "fringe" has a damn television network.

2/23/2010 8:23:51 AM

Quote :

"Research 2000 for Daily Kos. 1/20-31. Self-identified Republicans. MoE 2% (No trend lines) Do you think Barack Obama is a socialist? Yes 63 No 21 Not Sure 16 "

2/23/2010 9:09:59 AM

Quote :

"except the right's "fringe" has a damn television network."

and fringe is a show under the same parent network

2/23/2010 9:29:44 AM

and the left doesn't have their own television network ahem MSNBC

2/23/2010 9:32:50 AM

Quote :

"Hey look, I can play the same game! Why don't you get your head out of your partisan ass and wake up. There is a fringe to almost every issue and group"

Except the fringe doesn't have it's own tel--- wait people said that already.

Quote :

"and the left doesn't have their own television network ahem MSNBC"

People always say this, but I never see compendiums of crazy batshit insane television clips on youtube from MSNBC and I see shit all the time from Fox News. Does the internet have a left-wing bias or something?

2/23/2010 10:27:21 AM

Paul Krugman by himself is more insane than all of Glen Beck put together. He just doesn't have his own television show, and the internets loves some video.

[Edited on February 23, 2010 at 10:31 AM. Reason : .,.]

2/23/2010 10:30:45 AM

So you admit that the lunatic right has a tv network then?

2/23/2010 10:33:15 AM

Quote :

"and the left doesn't have their own television network ahem MSNBC"

Please post the clip of somebody on MSNBC displaying swastikas and playing "Das Deutschlandlied" while criticizing Bush.

Give me a fucking break.

2/23/2010 10:41:29 AM

Quote :

"Paul Krugman by himself is more insane than all of Glen Beck put together."

Dude, what?

No.

2/23/2010 10:50:20 AM

Paul Krugman has so many crazy Communist leanings its not even funny, he wants more spending more Government control on everything.

2/23/2010 10:53:14 AM

That'd fall under "different from you,"

not "crazy."

Let's be clear, Beck isn't crazy because he's a strict Constitutionalist. He's crazy because he's an emotionally unstable former-alcoholic Mormon snake oil salesman.

[Edited on February 23, 2010 at 11:02 AM. Reason : ]

2/23/2010 10:56:53 AM

Quote :

"Paul Krugman by himself is more insane than all of Glen Beck put together"

Is Glenn Beck some kind of giant robot? Or a superhero captain summoned when the powers of conservatism combine?
Can nothing stop the Krug-mon?

2/23/2010 11:12:14 AM

Quote :

"Krug-mon"

hahaha

2/23/2010 11:14:28 AM

^^hahhahhahahahahah

2/23/2010 11:22:48 AM

no he's crazy because you don't agree with him.

He's a sensationalist and is in show business. He is trying to get ratings which is how you keep a job in this industry. Your ratings fall you get the axe.

I guess people who are recovering alcoholics and drug addicts should never be allowed to have a tv show. (guess somebody should call Hollywood and tell them this bit of news)

I love how in a lot of people's eyes on this website Glen Beck has become the face of Fox News. But whatever we get it a majority of you hate Fox News yet you can't stop watching it or talking about it.

I don't care for Keith Olbermann, Chris Matthews, or Rachel Maddow and you know what I don't watch them.

2/23/2010 11:34:55 AM

Pretty hilarious Glenn Beck/communisim segment on The Daily Show last night. I think it would fit well in this thread but I'm posting from a phone. Anyone want to give it a shot...

2/23/2010 11:36:27 AM

Quote :

"Please post the clip of somebody on MSNBC displaying swastikas and playing "Das Deutschlandlied" while criticizing Bush. Give me a fucking break"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u19KHbTJEOk

Perhaps not as colorful, but it's the same message.....

Oh, and this little thing as well...

http://www.adl.org/media_watch/tv/20060728-MSNBC.htm


But yea, no one on MSNBC would ever do something like that...

2/23/2010 11:58:41 AM

Quote :

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u19KHbTJEOk"

tl,dr;

2/23/2010 12:06:35 PM

Quote :

"tl,dr;"

Do not care.

2/23/2010 12:40:41 PM

lol@ people saying the left doesn't have their TV networks... about every major TV/news network other than fox is left leaning. For you idiot lefties, this doesn't mean they lean as far to the left as fox leans to the right... but all of them have a bias.

2/23/2010 1:25:25 PM

Quote :

"this doesn't mean they lean as far to the left as fox leans to the right... but all of them have a bias."

Therefore they're equivalent? Hardly.

2/23/2010 3:35:18 PM

Quote :

"lol@ people saying the left doesn't have their TV networks..."

when has anybody said this?

2/23/2010 3:54:45 PM

Quote :

"lol@ people saying the left doesn't have their TV networks... about every major TV/news network other than fox is left leaning. For you idiot lefties, this doesn't mean they lean as far to the left as fox leans to the right... but all of them have a bias."

Not true. With as much shit as the Bush Administration got away with. God damn you fucking deluded idiots.

2/23/2010 4:04:43 PM

I'm glad we can all agree that calling out politicians as communists/socialists is as ridiculous as saying Bush was a nazi.

Quote :

""The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed." ---------- "That last part is right out of the Obama playbook...' "

-EarthDogg

Quote :

""He [President Obama] sure is acting like one [socialist].""

-EarthDogg

Quote :

"I think Virginia Foxx is a pretty safe bet in that conservative part of the state. And we definitely don't need to send any more "yes" men to Washington to help Obama's socialist agenda, do we?"

-EarthDogg

Quote :

"I guess I just think it'd be better if modern liberals would call themselves what they are: Social democrats, socialists, communists, fascists"

-d357r0y3r

And Hooksaw has any number of articles calling or hinting that the President or democrats are communists/socialists, but I can't actually quote him ever saying it because the only commenting to go along with it are bolding sections of the article & following it up with a good old fashioned eye roll.

2/23/2010 4:24:47 PM

Quote :

"Not true. With as much shit as the Bush Administration got away with. God damn you fucking deluded idiots."

lol hello pot

2/23/2010 4:52:51 PM

Modern liberals may not be fascists in an all-around sense, but I wouldn't hesitate to call them economic fascists, and they certainly aim to implement socialist policies. American liberals claim to be in favor of liberty, and many times, they are. When it comes to economic issues, they are not liberals in any way. The left/progressive movement/whatever movement has consistently favored government intervention in the markets. Then, when shit hits the fan, they say capitalism and the free market are to blame, dismissing the possibility that bad legislation or monetary policy may be the culprit. There's no need to separate economic and social freedom. I support maximum liberty in every area.

Let's go ahead and open it up, though. I'm getting tired of Democrats rolling their eyes every time they're called socialists. They seem so confident that they're not socialists and that the comparison is totally ludicrous. How should we define socialist? I think of a socialist system of government as one that reallocates resources, usually having some form of economic planning,

2/23/2010 5:31:22 PM

Quote :

"I think of a socialist system of government as one that reallocates resources, usually having some form of economic planning"

Then you don't know what socialism is, thus probably explaining why liberals roll their eyes at you.

2/23/2010 6:06:12 PM

Yea. Fuck schools and roads.

2/23/2010 6:10:24 PM

Quote :

"Then you don't know what socialism is, thus probably explaining why liberals roll their eyes at you."

That's why I want your definition of socialism. I want to see exactly what kind of mental gymnastics you've done in order to convince yourself that the left in this country is not socialist.

2/23/2010 6:14:56 PM

Quote :

"That's why I want your definition of socialism"

I don't have my own definition of socialism, I have the definition of socialism, you know, the real one, which is basically public ownership of the means of production.

Quote :

"I want to see exactly what kind of mental gymnastics you've done in order to convince yourself that the left in this country is not socialist."

Well I guess I could start by explaining to you why you , yourself, would support a government which allocates resources and and has some form of economic planning. I'll start by asking you if you support a public nationwide defense program.

2/23/2010 6:32:06 PM

Quote :

"Modern liberals may not be fascists in an all-around sense, but I wouldn't hesitate to call them economic fascists, and they certainly aim to implement socialist policies."

What do you mean “modern liberals”?

Every single president since the 30s, republican or democrat, has supported or implemented what the right now calls “socialist policies.” I can guarantee that 99.99% of the right supports what they would call a “socialist” policy, if they were told that it’s what Obama wanted.

2/23/2010 8:01:51 PM

Quote :

"Modern liberals Conservatives (at least the ones in power) may not be fascists in an all-around sense, but I wouldn't hesitate to call them economic Social fascists, and they certainly aim to implement socialist Fascist Social policies. American liberals Conservatives claim to be in favor of liberty, and many times, they are. When it comes to economic Social issues, they are not liberals In Support of Liberty in any way. The left/progressive right/Neo-Con movement/whatever movement has consistently favored government intervention in the markets an Individual's life and Personnal Freedoms. Then, when shit hits the fan, they say capitalism and the free market are to blame corruption of "Family Morals, homosexuals, drugs, violent video games, etc are to blame, dismissing the possibility that bad legislation or monetary policy the current Socio-Economic disparity may be the culprit. There's no need to separate economic and social freedom. I support maximum liberty in every area."

This game is fun

[Edited on February 23, 2010 at 8:46 PM. Reason : l]

2/23/2010 8:45:15 PM

Quote :

"lol hello pot"

YES

PLEASE SHOW ME THE FOLLOWING POLICIES ENACTED BY THIS ADMINISTRATION

OUTRIGHT LYING

FALSIFYING INFORMATION

DECEIT

WAR CRIMES

AUTHORIZING TORTURE

CAUSING THE DEATHS OF THOUSAND AMERICANS FOR CORPORATE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL AGENDAS

2/23/2010 9:36:53 PM

Quote :

"system of government as one that reallocates resources, usually having some form of economic planning"

Quote :

"which is basically public ownership of the means of production."

Well, Kris, that is a question in contention. At what point is control, ownership? The dictionary in at least one definition seems to call ownership "it belongs only to you, rather than being controlled by or shared with someone else". There were instances in Nazi Germany where the means of production were still legally titled to a private owner, but the state had sized complete control over the day-to-day operations of the business in question. I would consider such a form of socialism, would you agree?

2/23/2010 10:17:05 PM

There were also instances of businesses NOT being controlled by the state.

2/23/2010 10:47:00 PM

I was referring to the instances in question. There is no question that much of Nazi Germany's economy was outright capitalist, the only reason the country was able to conquer most of Europe. I was wondering if "private in name only" counts as socialist in anyone elses mind, too.

2/23/2010 10:53:22 PM

Quote :

"There were instances in Nazi Germany where the means of production were still legally titled to a private owner, but the state had sized complete control over the day-to-day operations of the business in question. I would consider such a form of socialism, would you agree?"

No, the state need-not control the day to day operations, they need only have ownership, thus I'd describe that situation as the exact opposite. If it were publicly owned and privately operated, then I might agree.

2/23/2010 11:29:39 PM

^
If I "own" my business but the gov't tells me how to run it or the gov't owns my business and tells me how to run it..what's the difference?

2/24/2010 12:19:15 AM

At what point did Supplanter find it necessary to make a thread about everything involving the democrats in any way whatsoever?

Because frankly it's getting a bit redundant.

2/24/2010 12:30:55 AM

this thread was over and won on the 4th post

2/24/2010 12:43:57 AM

This thread is redundant as hell, but I'm for it.

2/24/2010 1:37:07 AM

^^^

Quote :

"At what point did Supplanter find it necessary to make a thread about everything involving the democrats in any way whatsoever?"

If you insist, I'll explain why I've been more active in the Soap Box recently. But I'd point out that this thread is mostly about tea party & cpac & gop fringe type shenanigans rather than about the democratic party. As with the example I already mentioned, 1 GOP in my district has said the other GOP he's running against support communist ideas. That has nothing to do with democrats, and everything to do with these shenanigans getting out of hand.

This thread I made in particular because I agree that calling the President a communist is as ridiculous as calling Bush a nazi, but that wasn't stopping him from being called a communist in the soap box as proof that he's bad on a semi-regular basis, and I was hoping broad consensus that it is nonsense would put a stop to it.

In general why have I made more threads lately? I've been on tdub more now that I'm back in grad school, but also in response people like Hooksaw & Aaronburro who have both multiple times too many of the topics I start are on gay rights & that is the only thing I care about. A few samples:

"aaronburro: oh look, the only issue Supplanter cares about. Wonder why

aaronburro: Supplanter, but I really wish you post about something more than gay-rights issues."

But also because of threads like this:

"Only three years to go... "
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=585020
peakseeker: "and this administration will forever be known as a "do nothing" administration."

And I was seeing that reflected in several places, and I started thinking just because you (or I at the time... I was just as guilty) couldn't list a lot of things that had been done, doesn't mean nothing has been done. So I made some effort to look up some things that had been done.

The President has already signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, he signed a bill to expand veteran benefits, he signed kids tobacco legislation, he signed a major land protection act, & SCHIP, gave the Cairo speech & followed it up with appointing special envoys, the first time home buyers credit has seemed pretty popular, he gave a widely watched education speech, he's advocated for science in our schools, & is for stem cell research, he's appointed a supreme court justice, he's ended torture, respects the Geneva Convention, and has plans to close Gitmo, he's working to end DADT which is polling very well right now even in NC, he's going to have us out or Iraq next year and starting to pulling out of Afghanistan (the one that actually attacked us) at the same time. And of course Question Time was big step in the right direction towards how governmental disagreements ought to be debated and settled. And with the Jobs Bill isn't too far away from reaching the presidents desk with some GOP voting for it, and a dem voting against, in a bipartisan way.

That combined with the fact that I worked on a mayoral campaign recently, and am studying local government in some of my classes has led me to talk more about things in that arena like the Apex GOP removing funding for abortion for government employees. Ive also had the opportunity to chat online with all 3 democratic candidates running for senate against Burr who has been in congress for the past 16 years, as well as do a few conference calls with their campaigns, and talk to campaign staff directly, so that is why I have been interested in and doing threads on the 2010 senate campaign.

indy:

Quote :

"In my opinion, the slowness, the long threads, and the scarcity of new threads are the worst things about The Soap Box."

2/24/2010 2:30:00 AM

Quote :

"No, the state need-not control the day to day operations, they need only have ownership, thus I'd describe that situation as the exact opposite. If it were publicly owned and privately operated, then I might agree."

So, then, what would you call such private-in-name-only ownership?

2/24/2010 12:27:37 PM